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New manufacturers considering to develop LMP1 cars, including Ferrari


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#1 noikeee

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:58

Ferrari open to LMP1 programme with Formula 1 turbo engine - http://www.autosport...t.php/id/111742

 

Interesting bits:

 

 

"That means that we cannot say Ferrari will be in LMP1, but we can also not say that Ferrari will not be in LMP1. We can also not say if our vision is for 2015, 2016 or beyond."
 
Coletta stressed that if Ferrari did join Audi, Toyota, Porsche and, most likely, Nissan in LMP1 in 2015 or beyond it would be with a full-factory effort and not just as an engine supplier.
 
"Either we build a car or we do not come," he stated.
 
Renault has also raised the prospect of its 1.6-litre F1 V6 becoming the basis of a P1 powerplant.

 

 

Exciting stuff, maybe we are on the brink of a new golden age for sportscars in the coming next few years?

 

Though I imagine if a dominant team emerges from the current lot of Audi, Toyota and Porsche, new entrants may be scared of coming in and taking on them...

 



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#2 Anja

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 13:14

Would be great to see that. Although I still think Audi might pull out of WEC in the next few years. Also - just a thought - I'd love to see Renault enter the LMP1 under Alpine brand.



#3 redreni

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 13:40

If Ferrari enter LMP1, WEC will overtake F1 as the championship I care about the most.



#4 DanardiF1

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 13:45

Makes complete sense, as the P1 rules going forward are the most relevant for manufacturers, and the cars are already more advanced than those in F1.

 

Ferrari will need a presence in the WEC in the future for their own technological pursuits. F1 is important to them and motorsport but largely as an entertainment series now. Ferrari the brand races in F1, Ferrari the company should be in WEC.

 

Same for Mercedes, Renault/Nissan, Ford, GM etc.... all the big companies should be looking at the new LMP1 regs and thinking about putting a program together for it.



#5 dau

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 13:52

Ferrari open to LMP1 programme with Formula 1 turbo engine - http://www.autosport...t.php/id/111742

 

Interesting bits:

 

 

 

Exciting stuff, maybe we are on the brink of a new golden age for sportscars in the coming next few years?

 

Though I imagine if a dominant team emerges from the current lot of Audi, Toyota and Porsche, new entrants may be scared of coming in and taking on them...

 

We've had a dominant team in sportscars for more than 10 years now and we still had Peugeot, Aston Martin, Toyota and Porsche joining. Everyone wants to topple the king.



#6 SonnyViceR

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 14:24

YES, so much YES. Come out of that dull single seater series and join us at the good party.

 

Diamond_Tiara_and_Silver_Spoon_pounce_S1

 

Also, even if these are vague promises only, they are still a hell of a lot more convincing than Nissan's G56-PR-speeches


Edited by SonnyViceR, 05 December 2013 - 14:27.


#7 DanardiF1

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 14:26

I would've liked that post Sonny but for the bronies element... man am I sick of MLP (my girlfriend loves it)



#8 SonnyViceR

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 14:29

I would've liked that post Sonny but for the bronies element... man am I sick of MLP (my girlfriend loves it)

 

One can be sick of ponies?

 

We all have our special things. I love 'em


Edited by SonnyViceR, 05 December 2013 - 14:32.


#9 DanardiF1

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 14:36

One can be sick of ponies?

 

We all have our special things. I love 'em

 

OT: I just had to spend £50 on Pony-related christmas presents... hence the lack of enthusiasm for them.



#10 SonnyViceR

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 14:41

OT: I just had to spend £50 on Pony-related christmas presents... hence the lack of enthusiasm for them.

 

Only 50? :p I can't even remember how much I've spent on ponies this year, too astronomical

 

Anyway, technically speaking Ferrari never really left Le Mans as the GT programmes have been semi-works assisted throughout the years, but imagine - Ferrari vs Porsche rematch for the overall honours.


Edited by SonnyViceR, 05 December 2013 - 14:42.


#11 P0inters

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 14:52

PLEASE make this happen. Audi vs Toyota vs Porsche vs Ferrari.  :clap:  I can see myself watching this more than F1 if this happens. One thing is though , I can't imagine a modern day LMP1 car in Ferrari red. It looks horrendous in my mind.



#12 DanardiF1

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 14:52

I'd love to see a P1 grid with Ferrari, Porsche, Audi, Toyota, Peugeot (please come back!), Mercedes and Nissan. They're all great names with history at the event that could really get something out of the regulations.

 

AF Corse and others have been the de facto works Ferrari entries for years, but it's not the same as competing for the overall win. Same for Porsche, which is why they are finally jumping back in.



#13 SonnyViceR

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 14:59

ACO should probably drop off the mandatory hybrid -requirement from works cars (privateers can run without), it might just not be the cup of tea of everybody.

 

Also ban diesel, no need for it anymore - Audi has already proven their point with it. It's neat to have another diversity element, even if only on fuel side, but it becomes sort of pointless if you have to fool around with performance balancing afterwards.. just yesterday FIA reconfirmed "Equivalence of Technology" for 2014, with two adjustment opportunities per year



#14 Option1

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 15:00

If Ferrari enter LMP1, WEC will overtake F1 as the championship I care about the most.

It already has for me. :D

 

The addition of Ferrari to the LMP1 ranks though would be fan-bluddy-tastic.  It would cause me problems with which team to follow though - Ferrari / Audi, Audi / Ferrari, etc.

 

Neil;



#15 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 15:09

This is exciting. I'm too young to have experienced the golden age of Group C, so I'd like to see sportscars reach that sort of level again.



#16 maximilian

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 15:11

FIA might just have to castrate this championship... again, so it doesn't overtake F1... again.



#17 noikeee

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 15:28

FIA might just have to castrate this championship... again, so it doesn't overtake F1... again.

 

That's a silly concern, WEC just isn't as television/spectator friendly with its longer races and much lesser focus on the drivers hence losing the human element. Don't get me wrong it can potentially be GREAT, but these days it'll never get as much attention from the masses as F1 can get. It'd be a massive mistake by the FIA to castrate it in any way in fear it could diminsh F1, when we could have 2 great series competing alongside instead.



#18 SenorSjon

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 15:36

There was a very nice concept drawn for this... It is only logical. Stay in F1 for the FOM cash and spend it on LMP1 :p

 

Previous thread: http://forums.autosp...ng-lmp1-return/

And a fanmade concept:

4682440820_6297caa983_b_zps7505dbf5.jpg



#19 noikeee

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 15:39

I highly doubt if this ever happens, it will have such a distinctive design as that fan concept, it will be a standard LMP shape car as the shape is driven by aerodynamics like the F1 cars.



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#20 DampMongoose

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 15:45

That's a silly concern, WEC just isn't as television/spectator friendly with its longer races and much lesser focus on the drivers hence losing the human element. Don't get me wrong it can potentially be GREAT, but these days it'll never get as much attention from the masses as F1 can get. It'd be a massive mistake by the FIA to castrate it in any way in fear it could diminsh F1, when we could have 2 great series competing alongside instead.

 

What exactly do you consider is happening in F1 these days that wasn't when the WSC was screwed over with crap engine rules first time round?  They certainly didn't want both being successful first time round, just curious to know what you think's changed?  With more manufacturers involved TV highlights of a 6 hour race condensed into a F1 length feature wouldn't be problematic...



#21 SonnyViceR

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 15:47

I highly doubt if this ever happens, it will have such a distinctive design as that fan concept, it will be a standard LMP shape car as the shape is driven by aerodynamics like the F1 cars.

 

At least the P1s (and most of the P2s) are still distintivily different to each other, both under the skin and on top. All modern F1 cars look the same, unless you research them with miscroscope

 

Wish Peugeot would consider return once they sort out their money problems.



#22 SonnyViceR

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 15:50

With more manufacturers involved TV highlights of a 6 hour race condensed into a F1 length feature wouldn't be problematic...

 

Even better if the ACO wasn't so stubborn and demanded 6 hour standard race lengths for the lesser regular rounds, 500km would be perfectly fine. Range of different lengths used to be the soul of sportscar racing

 

Have events from this mix

250km

500km

1000km

8 hours

1000 miles

12 hours


Edited by SonnyViceR, 05 December 2013 - 15:54.


#23 dau

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 15:57

At least the P1s (and most of the P2s) are still distintivily different to each other, both under the skin and on top. All modern F1 cars look the same, unless you research them with miscroscope

 

Wish Peugeot would consider return once they sort out their money problems.

I think most people here wouldn't have much of a problem telling apart F1 cars and/or LMPs. The general public, however, will likely see no differences in either categories. The differences are pretty miniscule on LMPs as well.

 

Then again, you admitted yourself that you are quite a bit biased, so i'm not surprised to read another post like that. However, i am surprised there seems to be a correlation between fans of ponies and sportscars.  :p

 

Re topic, i think they said a few times they were 'looking at' sportscars. But unless there's anything more concrete, i wouldn't get my hopes up. It feels kinda like VW and F1.



#24 SonnyViceR

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 16:05

I think most people here wouldn't have much of a problem telling apart F1 cars and/or LMPs. The general public, however, will likely see no differences in either categories. The differences are pretty miniscule on LMPs as well.

 

Then again, you admitted yourself that you are quite a bit biased, so i'm not surprised to read another post like that. However, i am surprised there seems to be a correlation between fans of ponies and sportscars.  :p

 

Re topic, i think they said a few times they were 'looking at' sportscars. But unless there's anything more concrete, i wouldn't get my hopes up. It feels kinda like VW and F1.

 

 

The differences used to be bigger in LMP yes but you can tell apart Rebellion Lola from Dome rather easily, while Force India vs Sauber is a bit harder. However, as I am biased it probably pleases you to hear that in my opinion the current generation of P1 (and generic cost cap P2) isn't particularly pretty to look at.

 

It's not the most concrete statement from Ferrari, but again it's better than what Nissan "promised" and which according to some people *cough Hindhaugh and DSC* was 100% confirmation of the works programme. Lol, no.

 

Oh and ponies and sportscar racing mix splendidly :wave:


Edited by SonnyViceR, 05 December 2013 - 16:06.


#25 DampMongoose

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 16:06

Even better if the ACO wasn't so stubborn and demanded 6 hour standard race lengths for the lesser regular rounds, 500km would be perfectly fine. Range of different lengths used to be the soul of sportscar racing

 

Have events from this mix

250km

500km

1000km

8 hours

1000 miles

12 hours

 

I agree, having attended the 1000km at Silverstone in '86, '87 and '88 when the Jag's won each the atmosphere was ace and virtually equal attendance numbers to the F1 race. 



#26 SonnyViceR

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 16:13

I agree, having attended the 1000km at Silverstone in '86, '87 and '88 when the Jag's won each the atmosphere was ace and virtually equal attendance numbers to the F1 race. 

 

My fantasy which will sadly never happen

Round 01    March        United States        Sebring        12 Hours

Round 02    April        Argentina            San Luis       500 Km

Round 03    April        South Africa         Kyalami        500 Km

Round 04    May          Italy                Monza          1000 Km    Joint with ELMS

            **LE MANS BREAK**

Round 05    July         France               Paul Ricard    1000 Km    Joint with ELMS

Round 06    August       Germany              Nurburgring    1000 Km    Joint with ELMS

Round 07    September    Japan                Okayama        500 Km

Round 08    September    United States        Laguna Seca    250 Km

Round 09    October      United States        Road Atlanta   1000 Miles

Round 10    November     Australia            Adelaide       8 Hours

Would want to have UK round there as well as it's a major market, but new Silverstone sucks ass and Brands Hatch GP is admittely a bit too diehardy for large modern prototypes. Donington could be okay but not really the most thrilling.

 

But instead we shall have bunch of 6 hour tilke asphaltdromes with zero history


Edited by SonnyViceR, 05 December 2013 - 16:15.


#27 DampMongoose

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 16:25

My fantasy which will sadly never happen

Round 01    March        United States        Sebring        12 Hours

Round 02    April        Argentina            San Luis       500 Km

Round 03    April        South Africa         Kyalami        500 Km

Round 04    May          Italy                Monza          1000 Km    Joint with ELMS

            **LE MANS BREAK**

Round 05    July         France               Paul Ricard    1000 Km    Joint with ELMS

Round 06    August       Germany              Nurburgring    1000 Km    Joint with ELMS

Round 07    September    Japan                Okayama        500 Km

Round 08    September    United States        Laguna Seca    250 Km

Round 09    October      United States        Road Atlanta   1000 Miles

Round 10    November     Australia            Adelaide       8 Hours

Would want to have UK round there as well as it's a major market, but new Silverstone sucks ass and Brands Hatch GP is admittely a bit too diehardy for large modern prototypes. Donington could be okay but not really the most thrilling.

 

But instead we shall have bunch of 6 hour tilke asphaltdromes with zero history

 

New Silverstone doesn't suck ass, it sucks enormous great donkey balls!  I would also agree that Brands would require changes to accomodate such cars, but I'd not want to see that happen...although I'll be going to the Blacpain there next year (when it replaces the DTM round) not that I like BOP racing but nice to see some quick sportscars all the same. 



#28 Fastcake

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 16:27

What exactly do you consider is happening in F1 these days that wasn't when the WSC was screwed over with crap engine rules first time round?  They certainly didn't want both being successful first time round, just curious to know what you think's changed?  With more manufacturers involved TV highlights of a 6 hour race condensed into a F1 length feature wouldn't be problematic...

 

F1 has a near monopoly on motorsport nowadays, which it didn't have back in the eighties. It's far harder to even attempt to compete with F1 nowadays.

 

Not that it should compete of course. Just let LMP cars and the WEC develop down their own path, and not damage themselves trying to compete like the WRC did.



#29 SonnyViceR

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 16:35

Not that it should compete of course. Just let LMP cars and the WEC develop down their own path, and not damage themselves trying to compete like the WRC did.

 

Or FIA GT1 WC which was copycatting F1 recepies... short sprint races, mandatory two car requirement per team for the entire season and no outsiders, spec tires, F1 style knockout qualifying etc

 

I preferred ILMC over WEC not only because the calendar was superior and there were grids integrated with regional series, but FIA wasn't involved yet (technically) so the rules weren't so strict yet. For example, FIA limited the entry number of 2012 Spa 6 hours to 42 entries for no reason - that circuit can hold almost double that amount due to secondary 24h pitlane. Also in ILMC there were less worthless championship trophies and sub categories and it was all about manufacturers, not drivers. Drivers shouldn't have starring role in this genre, but the cars


Edited by SonnyViceR, 05 December 2013 - 16:37.


#30 noikeee

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 16:38

What exactly do you consider is happening in F1 these days that wasn't when the WSC was screwed over with crap engine rules first time round?  They certainly didn't want both being successful first time round, just curious to know what you think's changed?  With more manufacturers involved TV highlights of a 6 hour race condensed into a F1 length feature wouldn't be problematic...

 

 

I think they've realized they've made a mistake. Why do you think the new regulations are such that they're meant to bring back the manufacturers to as many branches of racing as possible, with stuff such as F1 engines similar to LMP engines?

 

Highlight packages will never get the massive TV coverage numbers F1 live races can get. You'll get the hardcore nuts watching the whole 6 hours, and a handful of casually entertained viewers watching the highlights later on - neither bunch will be that large. Prototype/GT races just don't have anywhere near enough action to keep people entertained in this ADHD culture we're living in, you need patience to keep up with it, even highlight packages won't be filled with that much action, it's a whole different experience for nowadays' youngsters who watch a F1 race and complain this is terrible after 5 laps without an overtake.

 

My fantasy which will sadly never happen

Round 01    March        United States        Sebring        12 Hours

Round 02    April        Argentina            San Luis       500 Km

Round 03    April        South Africa         Kyalami        500 Km

Round 04    May          Italy                Monza          1000 Km    Joint with ELMS

            **LE MANS BREAK**

Round 05    July         France               Paul Ricard    1000 Km    Joint with ELMS

Round 06    August       Germany              Nurburgring    1000 Km    Joint with ELMS

Round 07    September    Japan                Okayama        500 Km

Round 08    September    United States        Laguna Seca    250 Km

Round 09    October      United States        Road Atlanta   1000 Miles

Round 10    November     Australia            Adelaide       8 Hours

Would want to have UK round there as well as it's a major market, but new Silverstone sucks ass and Brands Hatch GP is admittely a bit too diehardy for large modern prototypes. Donington could be okay but not really the most thrilling.

 

But instead we shall have bunch of 6 hour tilke asphaltdromes with zero history

 

That looks nice, but... Okayama? Seriously? It's far too tight for Prototypes, I reckon probably even too tight for GTs. I race a GT2 in iRacing, have done this track in entry-level cars slower than the GTs and even there it was easy enough to defend position and keep a quicker car behind. Traffic management would be a nightmare. Suzuka and Fuji (even with its modern hilarious final sector) are much more fitting tracks.

 

Not sure how wise it'd be to tackle a street circuit for 8 hours too - one hell of a challenge no doubt, but... did they do endurance races round Adelaide back then?

 

But I definitely like your idea generally.


Edited by noikeee, 05 December 2013 - 16:39.


#31 DampMongoose

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 16:49

I think they've realized they've made a mistake. Why do you think the new regulations are such that they're meant to bring back the manufacturers to as many branches of racing as possible, with stuff such as F1 engines similar to LMP engines?

 

 

Having engines that were similar was where the trouble all began I'm afraid... Production derived engines is why Group C prospered to F1's detriment.  Sportscar racing always had an upper hand because the names where familiar to the chap on the street.  F1 wasn't about manufacturers at the time.  Differentiation was why Sportscars were popular on top of the fact that they were far closer in speed than the two series are now... Maybe they have realised they made a mistake but they certainly haven't learnt from it! 



#32 DampMongoose

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 16:54

My fantasy which will sadly never happen

Round 01    March        United States        Sebring        12 Hours

Round 02    April        Argentina            San Luis       500 Km

Round 03    April        South Africa         Kyalami        500 Km

Round 04    May          Italy                Monza          1000 Km    Joint with ELMS

            **LE MANS BREAK**

Round 05    July         France               Paul Ricard    1000 Km    Joint with ELMS

Round 06    August       Germany              Nurburgring    1000 Km    Joint with ELMS

Round 07    September    Japan                Okayama        500 Km

Round 08    September    United States        Laguna Seca    250 Km

Round 09    October      United States        Road Atlanta   1000 Miles

Round 10    November     Australia            Adelaide       8 Hours

Would want to have UK round there as well as it's a major market, but new Silverstone sucks ass and Brands Hatch GP is admittely a bit too diehardy for large modern prototypes. Donington could be okay but not really the most thrilling.

 

But instead we shall have bunch of 6 hour tilke asphaltdromes with zero history

 

 

You've not got Montreal or Mosport I'd lose Laguna for one of those...  Plus although it would be a step towards asphalt fields Spa would at least give me a good chance to go if we're not having a UK round. ;)  Although I'd stick the UK round at Rockingham as it would be a bit of variation after all.  I'd also consider Daytona 24hrs instead of any more US rounds given it's heritage. 



#33 SonnyViceR

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 16:59

That looks nice, but... Okayama? Seriously? It's far too tight for Prototypes, I reckon probably even too tight for GTs. I race a GT2 in iRacing, have done this track in entry-level cars slower than the GTs and even there it was easy enough to defend position and keep a quicker car behind. Traffic management would be a nightmare. Suzuka and Fuji (even with its modern hilarious final sector) are much more fitting tracks.

 

Not sure how wise it'd be to tackle a street circuit for 8 hours too - one hell of a challenge no doubt, but... did they do endurance races round Adelaide back then?

 

But I definitely like your idea generally.

 

I've always loved Okayama, it's so... pure. Sure, twisty as hell, but not all tracks need to be made of the same ingredients. Asian LMS raced there 2009 and it was perfectly fine for P1/P2/GT1/GT2. Super GT races there regularly too.

Fuji (the new one) is just a sterile tilkedrome and Suzuka has sort of lost touch.

 

Adelaide was the season finale for the 2000 ALMS season, held on New Years'eve and it was f-a-b-u-l-o-u-s. They actually ended it earlier than the anticipated 1000km distance due to scheduling issues but it could be doable. Street circuits need love too, especially great ones!¨¨



#34 SonnyViceR

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 17:04

You've not got Montreal or Mosport I'd lose Laguna for one of those...  Plus although it would be a step towards asphalt fields Spa would at least give me a good chance to go if we're not having a UK round.  ;)  Although I'd stick the UK round at Rockingham as it would be a bit of variation after all.  I'd also consider Daytona 24hrs instead of any more US rounds given it's heritage. 

 

In ideal world I would have Canada there, but US is bigger market and I feel that the west coast needs to be represented too. Ten races would be an absolute maximum for such (fantasy) championship, especially when LM is there in addition

 

Montreal's a nice track and all but there's no need for more F1 circuits really.  Mosport, otherwise superb fast speed circuit has been ruined by NASCAR asphalt runoffs. Mont-Tremblant would be awesome but not realistic by any imagination

 

Btw isn't Nurburgring rather close to Spa?


Edited by SonnyViceR, 05 December 2013 - 17:07.


#35 spacekid

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 17:11

This sounds exciting. I don't know much about Sportscars at the moment, but give me an interesting field and a lack of DRS/contrived rules about forced tyre stops, and the means to watch it, and I will gladly ditch F1 for something different in a heartbeat.

 

I'll be keeping an eye on this.



#36 redreni

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 17:15

Even better if the ACO wasn't so stubborn and demanded 6 hour standard race lengths for the lesser regular rounds, 500km would be perfectly fine. Range of different lengths used to be the soul of sportscar racing

 

Have events from this mix

250km

500km

1000km

8 hours

1000 miles

12 hours

 

Too short, IMHO. Plus broadcasters have a stated preference for time-certain finishes, for obvious reasons, hence the replacement of 1000km events with 6 hour ones. I'm sure the broadcasters may also like the very short events, mind, but if the current iteration of the F1 rules teaches us anything, it's that the public shouldn't always be given what they want, as it's not always good for them or the product. There's also the example of FIA GT - it went to 1 hour races under the guiding influence of SRO and propmptly died on its arse, while at the same time the Blancpain Endurance Series, which was almost the same except with decent length races, thrived.

 

Anything less than 6 hours is not a proper endurance race as far as I'm concerned. It should be difficult to make it to the end. You've got to keep the fundamentals of what sportscar racing is all about.



#37 DampMongoose

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 17:21

In ideal world I would have Canada there, but US is bigger market and I feel that the west coast needs to be represented too. Ten races would be an absolute maximum for such (fantasy) championship, especially when LM is there in addition

 

Montreal's a nice track and all but there's no need for more F1 circuits really.  Mosport, otherwise superb fast speed circuit has been ruined by NASCAR asphalt runoffs. Mont-Tremblant would be awesome but not realistic by any imagination

 

Btw isn't Nurburgring rather close to Spa?

 

I haven't seen anything from Mosport of late so I'm disappointed to hear that, I remember watching footage of the new XJR6's when they made their debut there in '86 and it looked a bit shabby but intact.  Nurburgring is close but is shit and I wouldn't go there.  Unless you're running on 'THE' real ring?  I'd lose Nurburgring every day of the year to pick a different european venue. Unless it's Hockenheim, which is also shit these days. 



#38 SonnyViceR

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 17:30

Too short, IMHO. Plus broadcasters have a stated preference for time-certain finishes, for obvious reasons, hence the replacement of 1000km events with 6 hour ones. I'm sure the broadcasters may also like the very short events, mind, but if the current iteration of the F1 rules teaches us anything, it's that the public shouldn't always be given what they want, as it's not always good for them or the product. There's also the example of FIA GT - it went to 1 hour races under the guiding influence of SRO and propmptly died on its arse, while at the same time the Blancpain Endurance Series, which was almost the same except with decent length races, thrived.

 

Anything less than 6 hours is not a proper endurance race as far as I'm concerned. It should be difficult to make it to the end. You've got to keep the fundamentals of what sportscar racing is all about.

 

The old World Sportscar Championship had plenty of sprint races, especially the said 500km distance. The ALMS had 2h45min length for many of their events and the format has been extremely successfull. I don't understand why every sportscar race needs to be an endurance race. I mean sure you need to have your classic mega events there with 10-24 hour distances (of which WEC only has one) but why do you need to have several six hour events? Why is it so fundamental? The cars are so reliable too that it's not too often that they break up anymore.

 

The organizers have told us that the reasoning for switching to timed events instead of distance was based on TV, but for a niche championship that has a crappy TV package anyway (Motors TV + some little pieces on Eurosport, zero coverage in America), why should they care about TV so much. Fix the production and deals first.

 

Also the so-called popularity of BES doesn't really have that much to do with the format, apart from Spa 24 hours, but that it has BoP-GT3 formula and millions of sub categories for amateur teams and drivers to enter. Though I agree that the old format of the FIA GT Championship (2-3 hour feature race) instead of the crappy 1 hour sprints was superior. But we're not talking about 1 hour races here



#39 BT44/45

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 17:31

very exciting indeed.

... and go back to two drivers per car.



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#40 redreni

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 17:33

I haven't seen anything from Mosport of late so I'm disappointed to hear that, I remember watching footage of the new XJR6's when they made their debut there in '86 and it looked a bit shabby but intact.  Nurburgring is close but is shit and I wouldn't go there.  Unless you're running on 'THE' real ring?  I'd lose Nurburgring every day of the year to pick a different european venue. Unless it's Hockenheim, which is also shit these days. 

 

The Newburgring is a poor track but it badly needs well-attended events like WEC and DTM to help offset the disastrous losses it makes on F1. Otherwise the whole thing goes belly-up and bye-bye Nordschleife.

 

I agree, though, the Newburgring is not worth putting on a fantasy calendar. But as it's a fantasy rather than a seriously proposed calendar there's no reason not to just make the N24 a round of the WEC, but still keep the 100-plus car entry, is there?



#41 SonnyViceR

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 17:37

I haven't seen anything from Mosport of late so I'm disappointed to hear that, I remember watching footage of the new XJR6's when they made their debut there in '86 and it looked a bit shabby but intact.  Nurburgring is close but is shit and I wouldn't go there.  Unless you're running on 'THE' real ring?  I'd lose Nurburgring every day of the year to pick a different european venue. Unless it's Hockenheim, which is also shit these days. 

 

Mosport, or Canadian Tire Motorsport Park, was perfectly fine road course until 2012 when they paved off some of the areas outside the racing line. One year later and they've ruined it almost completely with tarmac runoffs, thanks to NASCAR coming to down

 

Nordschleife would be okay for GT only race as that's how the 24 hours and VLN do it there currently, but for LMP it's too diehard. So yes I'm talking about the Nurburgring GP circuit, which is admittely kindsa lame, but Nurburgring 1000km used to be almost as classic sportscar race as Spa 1000km. There needs to be one race in Germany, and for that my choice would be Nurburgring. Hockenheim's crap as you say, Oschersleben tolerable but not really particulatly inviting, and the rest... meh. Also if you want to merge grids with regional series, ie ELMS as I suggested, you need to have venue with large capacity, and Nurburgring can host more of them than any other German circuit.

 

Then again, you could have it as GT only race and have Nordschleife on your disposal.


Edited by SonnyViceR, 05 December 2013 - 17:39.


#42 DampMongoose

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 17:44

Mosport, or Canadian Tire Motorsport Park, was perfectly fine road course until 2012 when they paved off some of the areas outside the racing line. One year later and they've ruined it almost completely with tarmac runoffs, thanks to NASCAR coming to down

 

Nordschleife would be okay for GT only race as that's how the 24 hours and VLN do it there currently, but for LMP it's too diehard. So yes I'm talking about the Nurburgring GP circuit, which is admittely kindsa lame, but Nurburgring 1000km used to be almost as classic sportscar race as Spa 1000km. There needs to be one race in Germany, and for that my choice would be Nurburgring. Hockenheim's crap as you say, Oschersleben tolerable but not really particulatly inviting, and the rest... meh. Also if you want to merge grids with regional series, ie ELMS as I suggested, you need to have venue with large capacity, and Nurburgring can host more of them than any other German circuit.

 

Then again, you could have it as GT only race and have Nordschleife on your disposal.

 

Hmmm does there?  I'd go as far to say that I'd even prefer Silverstone to the Nurburgring in that case... at least it's got the Becketts complex (the Audi's and Pug's looked good through there when I last attended), Nurburgring has...???



#43 noikeee

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 17:45

Spa with its modern tarmac runoffs is still a much much superior track to modern Nurburgring who also has tarmac runoffs, I'd rather go there... but I agree the Germans need a race.

 

"My" calendar would probably be along these lines:

 

Spa
Silverstone
Monza
Nurburgring
Suzuka
Road Atlanta
Sebring
COTA
Potrero de los Funes
Interlagos
 
(no specific order)


#44 SonnyViceR

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 17:49

Hmmm does there?  I'd go as far to say that I'd even prefer Silverstone to the Nurburgring in that case... at least it's got the Becketts complex (the Audi's and Pug's looked good through there when I last attended), Nurburgring has...???

 

Audi

Porsche

Toyota (well TMG headquarters are there)

 

Many of the privateer teams are also German.

 

The European circuits on that list aren't my favourite, I've merely chosen them for the market areas and for the size of them. My favourite Italian circuit for example is, believe or not, tiny twisty Adria :drunk:


Edited by SonnyViceR, 05 December 2013 - 17:50.


#45 DampMongoose

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 17:57

Audi

Porsche

Toyota (well TMG headquarters are there)

 

Many of the privateer teams are also German.

 

The European circuits on that list aren't my favourite, I've merely chosen them for the market areas and for the size of them. My favourite Italian circuit for example is, believe or not, tiny twisty Adria :drunk:

 

Point taken, but there are far more British teams in the other categories but you're not going there?



#46 SonnyViceR

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 18:08

Point taken, but there are far more British teams in the other categories but you're not going there?

 

As I said earlier I would preferably have an UK round (as it's one of the four major market areas in Europe) but if I wanted to keep the calendar in 10 races, I'd drop it out. Otherwise I'd probably have a race at Donington or sth, merged with the regional series to boost the grid

 

With NASCAR controlling the fate of Sebring and PLM now it's of course even more fictional list.


Edited by SonnyViceR, 05 December 2013 - 18:11.


#47 chipmcdonald

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 18:13

I could easily see Ferrari saying after next year "Formula 1 is not what it used to be" and signing off.  Add a few more races to the WEC calendar (Atlanta), snag a few more F1 drivers (Barichello, Kovalainen, talk JPM into it.. SCHUMACHER).  Get rid of diesels, and you'd have a more "F1" series than F1.

 

F1 would have a big problem.

 

 



#48 totgate

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 18:42

Well maybe the testing has started already.. ;-)

 



#49 noikeee

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 19:54

I could easily see Ferrari saying after next year "Formula 1 is not what it used to be" and signing off.

 

Easily? F1 is absolutely core to their brand, the whole deal with them being the only team that remains in the sport since the World Championship started. They're not going anywhere.



#50 Atreiu

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 20:15

They gotta win somewhere.