602 replies to this topic

[lustigson]

Wow, almost 4,000 posts in the original 2015 Silly Season thread. That means that the thread is running out of space. Hence a new thread, part II. 

 

Here's my latest update... although I'm sure I've once again missed a couple of rumors. I'd like to hear them.

 

Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team
Mercedes F1 W06 Hybrid – Mercedes PU106B Hybrid
Executive Director Business: Toto Wolff ; Executive Director Technical: Paddy Lowe ; Technical Director: Bob Bell

44. Lewis Hamilton (signed for ‘13-’15)

6. Nico Rosberg (on a multi-year deal beyond ‘13)

 

Infiniti Red Bull Racing
Red Bull Racing RB11 – Renault Energy F1-2015 (engine deal until ‘16)
Team Principal: Christian Horner ; Chief Technical Officer: Adrian Newey
3. Daniel Ricciardo (on a long-term deal)
25. Daniil Kvyat (Red Bull junior driver)

 

Williams Martini Racing

Williams FW37 – Mercedes PU106B Hybrid (multi-year deal)
Team Principal: Frank Williams ; Technical Director: Pat Symonds
19. Felipe Massa (confirmed for '15)
77. Valtteri Bottas (confirmed for '15)

 

Scuderia Ferrari
Ferrari F15T – Ferrari 059/4
Team Principal: Marco Mattiacci ; Technical Director: James Allison; Engineering Director: Pat Fry
14. Fernando Alonso (contracted through ‘16, but expected to leave)
7. Kimi Räikkönen (contracted through ‘15)

5. Sebastian Vettel (not yet confirmed)

 

McLaren Honda
McLaren MP4-30 – Honda RA168-E 1.6 V6T
Team Principal: Ron Dennis, Éric Boullier ; Technical Director: Tim Goss, Neil Oatley
22. Jenson Button (option for ‘15)
20. Kevin Magnussen (on a long-term deal?)

14. Fernando Alonso (rumoured)

**. Stoffel Vandoorne (part of McLaren junior driver program)

8. Romain Grosjean (rumoured)
5. Sebastian Vettel (rumoured)
 
Force India F1 Team
Force India VJM08 – Mercedes PU106B Hybrid (multi-year deal)
Team Principal: Vijay Mallya ; Technical Director: Andrew Green
27. Nico Hülkenberg (confirmed for '15)
11. Sergio Pérez (on a multi-year deal with options)

 

Scuderia Toro Rosso

Toro Rosso STR10 – Renault Energy F1-2015
Team Principal: Franz Tost ; Technical Director: James Key
**. Max Verstappen (Red Bull junior driver, on a long-term deal)

25. Jean-Éric Vergne (current driver)

**. Carlos Sainz, jr. (Red Bull junior driver)

**. Pierre Gasly (Red Bull junior driver)

**. Alex Lynn (Red Bull junior driver)

 

Lotus F1 Team
Lotus E23 – Mercedes PU106B Hybrid
Team Principal: Gérard Lopez ; Technical Director: Nick Chester
13. Pastor Maldonado (confirmed for '15)

8. Romain Grosjean
**. Esteban Ocon (rumoured)

 

Marussia F1 Team
Marussia MR04 – Ferrari 059/4
Team Principal: John Booth ; Technical Director: n/a
4. Max Chilton (current driver; maybe with long-term deal)
17. Jules Bianchi (depending on the extent of his injuries, may not return)

 

Sauber F1 Team (team rumoured to be (partly?) sold)
Sauber C34 – Ferrari 059/4
Team Principal: Monisha Kaltenborn ; Chief Designer: Eric Gandelin

21. Esteban Gutièrrez
99. Adrian Sutil

**. Giedo van der Garde (rumored; current reserve driver)

**. Felipe Nasr (rumoured)

 

Caterham F1 Team (team allegedly in financial difficulties; parent/sister company already in liquidation)

Caterham CT05 – Renault Energy F1-2015
Team Principal: Manfredi Ravetto ; Technical Director: Colin Kolles
9. Marcus Ericsson
10. Kamui Kobayashi

Forza Rossa Racing (probably participating from '16)
Forza Rossa FR01 – Renault Energy F1-2015 (expected to run French power units)
Team Principal: Colin Kolles ; Technical Director: T.B.A.
**. 
**. 

 

Haas F1 Team to participate from '16; Ferrari technical partnership confirmed.

Edited by lustigson, 23 October 2014 - 08:12.

[Gilles4Ever]

At the last race BBC were speaking to Horner on the pit wall and he said the 2nd seat at STR was between Sainz Jr, Gasly and Lynn. It would be one of them, although Mateschitz has said he would like experience with youth.

[charly0418]

Word over here is that Gutierrez wont have a seat next year

[emmanuelrubi]

Word over here is that Gutierrez wont have a seat next year

Good, he had his chance, and now its time for other drivers to have a go, plus the support of Telmex will go full on to Sergio.

About the post on the last threat i agree Lotus will be lucky to have 2011 results, but i doubt they will get any podium like in that year.

[RosannaG]

Scuderia Ferrari
Ferrari F15T – Ferrari 059/4
Team Principal: Marco Mattiacci ;  Technical Director: James Allison;   Engineering Director: Pat Fry 

14. Fernando Alonso (contracted through ‘16, but expected to leave)
7. Kimi Räikkönen (contracted through ‘15)

5. Sebastian Vettel (not yet confirmed)

 

 

Source:

http://formula1.ferrari.com/scuderia

Edited by RosannaG, 22 October 2014 - 15:56.

[bourbon]

According to Bild, Sebastian Vettel to Ferrari will be announced around the time of Austin GP Weekend

http://www.bild.de/s...05442.bild.html

 

 

According to the Gazzetta, Fernando Alonso to McLaren will be annouced around time of Austin GP weekend.

http://www.gazzetta....814737792.shtml

Edited by bourbon, 22 October 2014 - 17:16.

[JHSingo]

I hate to be so blunt, but right now I think it's pretty much certain that Bianchi won't be in F1 next year.

[Sarkis]

Might be I'm reading into this too much since it's quite subtle, but found it interesting since it's on the official Red Bull side:

 

When he was originally announced for Toro Rosso in 2015, Max Verstappen was obviously announced to be partnering Daniil Kvyat (and replacing JE Vergne), with the news of Vettel moving and Kvyat getting promoted coming much later. There's been the rumors of Vergne retaining his seat after all to be a more experienced mentor and benchmark for Verstappen, which made me find the following article interesting:

 

http://www.redbull.c...-f3-review-2014

 

It's basically a review of Max' F3 season, but I noticed the following passage:

 

 

Considering that the 17-year-old former karting sensation had his first test of a car with slicks and wings last October and is now set to move up to F1 to fill Daniil Kvyat's vacant seat at Toro Rosso for 2015, that’s a pretty awesome 12 months by anyone’s standards.

 

Again maybe I'm reading into this too much, but to me it seems another hint that they haven't quite closed to book on Vergne just yet. 

Edited by Sarkis, 23 October 2014 - 08:04.

[lustigson]

 

Scuderia Ferrari
Ferrari F15T – Ferrari 059/4
Team Principal: Marco Mattiacci ;  Technical Director: James Allison;   Engineering Director: Pat Fry 

14. Fernando Alonso (contracted through ‘16, but expected to leave)
7. Kimi Räikkönen (contracted through ‘15)

5. Sebastian Vettel (not yet confirmed)

 

 

Source:

http://formula1.ferrari.com/scuderia

 

 

Fixed.

 

At the last race BBC were speaking to Horner on the pit wall and he said the 2nd seat at STR was between Sainz Jr, Gasly and Lynn. It would be one of them, although Mateschitz has said he would like experience with youth.

 

Added Gasly and Lynn.

 

I hate to be so blunt, but right now I think it's pretty much certain that Bianchi won't be in F1 next year.

 

I'm afraid so.

[LuckyStrike1]

Might be I'm reading into this too much since it's quite subtle, but found it interesting since it's on the official Red Bull side:

 

When he was originally announced for Toro Rosso in 2015, Max Verstappen was obviously announced to be partnering Daniil Kvyat (and replacing JE Vergne), with the news of Vettel moving and Kvyat getting promoted coming much later. There's been the rumors of Vergne retaining his seat after all to be a more experienced mentor and benchmark for Verstappen, which made me find the following article interesting:

 

http://www.redbull.c...-f3-review-2014

 

It's basically a review of Max' F3 season, but I noticed the following passage:

 

 

Again maybe I'm reading into this too much, but to me it seems another hint that they haven't quite closed to book on Vergne just yet. 

 

 

Probably but they are probably looking at it as Kvyat is leaving and Verstappen is joining so one replaces the other after the new situation that arised in Suzuka, and so there's one seat still available - the one currently occupied by Vergne. 

Vergne is probably back with a chance to drive for the team next year after Vettels announcement that prompted Kvyats promotion. 

[Ferrari2183]

The silly season is about to explode if as rumoured, Marussia and Sauber fold along with Caterham.

[LuckyStrike1]

Not to mention F1 as a whole. 

 

Three car teams would be a disaster im my personal opinion but something we might get stuck with. 

 

But I suspect Bernie and the teams will do a lot to prevent that from happening and instead save some of the teams in trouble. Whether that is with direct funding, redistribution of commercial revenues or new TV-deals that allows for less than 20 cars on the grid remains to be seen. 

[turssi]

Yeah that would lead to a big rush to first find out if there will be third cars and who would run them (an option would be Bernie funding Ex-Caterham and introducing Forza Rossa) and then offering drivers for these newly available seats!

[Jimisgod]

My bets:

Mercedes
1. Hamilton
2. Rosberg Jr.

Red Bull
1. Ricciardo
2. Kvyat

Ferrari
1. Vettel
2. Raikkonen

Williams
1. Bottas
2. Massa

Mclaren
1. Alonso
2. Magnussen Jr.

Force India
1. Hulkenberg
2. Perez

Lotus
1. Grosjean
2. Maldonado

Sauber
1. Van Der Garde
2. Vergne

Toro Rosso
1. Verstappen Jr.
2. Sainz Jr.

Marussia
1. Rich parents
2. Big pockets

Caterham
1. Bankrupt
2. Liquidated

Haas
1. Token American
2. Desperate young guy

Wait is Haas in for 2016 onwards only?

Edited by Jimisgod, 23 October 2014 - 13:48.

[FullThrottleF1]

I don't think people understand that it is too late for 3 car teams next year, Boullier said a few weeks ago.

[Lazy]

Horner said he could do it in a week.

[turssi]

@jim: Ferrari to fold?

@fullthrottle: come on, that's just negotiations. If the commercial rights' holder needs those 3rd cars then the big teams will crank them out at a good profit.

[topical]

Three car teams surely means the best 3-4 teams take all the points, and the teams who now finish 6,7,8,9,10 finish outside the top 10, get no points, less money, means more financial problems...etc, etc. Won't this just lead to a vicious circle?

[turssi]

I think F1 entered the vicious circle a while back.

We have not seen any of these new teams stabilizing and moving up in the ranks, if not for middle field teams failing to the point where they acknowledge the possibility of having to leave the sport altogether.

Not so silly this silly season after all...

Edited by turssi, 23 October 2014 - 09:13.

[Ferrari2183]

Three car teams surely means the best 3-4 teams take all the points, and the teams who now finish 6,7,8,9,10 finish outside the top 10, get no points, less money, means more financial problems...etc, etc. Won't this just lead to a vicious circle?

I think only 2 cars would be allowed to score constructors points.

 

I want 3 car teams.

[FullThrottleF1]

I think your in a minority.

[Ferrari2183]

I think your in a minority.

That's fine.

[Jon83]

Good, he had his chance, and now its time for other drivers to have a go, plus the support of Telmex will go full on to Sergio.

About the post on the last threat i agree Lotus will be lucky to have 2011 results, but i doubt they will get any podium like in that year.

 

Yeah I used 2011 as the form I think they should be aiming for given how utterly hopeless they have been this season but agree with you that podiums, whilst possible, may be a long shot.

 

I agree about GUT as well. I think he justified a second season and whilst the car has been very poor, I'm not sure I see much long-term potential. I could be wrong though.

[Gilles4Ever]

Bianca Garloff @bgarloff

Caterham in trouble, Marussia having to pay engines. Whatever happens to both teams: Red Bull is ready for three cars autobild.de/artikel/formel…

[as65p]

I don't think people understand that it is too late for 3 car teams next year, Boullier said a few weeks ago.

 

Ahem...

[LuckyStrike1]

I don't think people understand that it is too late for 3 car teams next year, Boullier said a few weeks ago.

 

I wish he would be right but I think that only means McLaren does not want to do it rather than they can't do it. 

 

I'm sure all the big teams can add a third car next year if they are really forced to do so, but very few of them probably want to because it adds a lot of extra costs and headache. 

[frosty125]

Well if 3 cars happens then my prediction would be.

 

Mercedes

 

Hamilton

Rosberg

Alonso

 

Red Bull

 

Ricciardo

Kyvat

Vergne

 

Williams

 

Bottas

Massa

Nasr

 

Ferrari

 

Kimi

Vettel

Perez

 

McLaren

 

Button

KMag

Vandoorne

 

Force India

 

Hulkenburg

Gutierrez

Sutil

 

Toro Rosso

 

Max Verstappen

Carlos Sainz Jr

Alex Lyn

 

Lotus

 

Grosjean

Jolyon Palmer

Maldanado

Edited by frosty125, 23 October 2014 - 09:57.

[OvDrone]

I want 3 car teams.

 

Me too.

[Mox]

The silly season is about to explode if as rumoured, Marussia and Sauber fold along with Caterham.

 

Wouldn't that just mean 6 drivers with no seats for 2015?

I can't see any of the current drivers at Sauber, Marussia or Caterham, bar perhaps Adrian Sutil, being able to shift other drivers of their respective rosters.

So, silly season exploding? No.

[FullThrottleF1]

I can't see Marussia folding at the moment, they are doing tremendously well.

[Mox]

I can't see Marussia folding at the moment, they are doing tremendously well.

 

Well, the story is, that Marussia and Sauber are behind in the payments for Ferrari engines. Marussia now to the point, where Ferrari has stopped informing them about the 2015 engine design, which will make it difficult for Marussia to design their 2015 car.

[LuckyStrike1]

I can't see Marussia folding at the moment, they are doing tremendously well.

 

 

Yes they grabbed two points in a very strange Monaco GP. 

 

But if you don't have the funds to run the operation then what good does it do. I can easily see them fold because they are in the same company as HRT (now gone) and Caterham (on the brink of total collapse) - a new team entering F1 on the understanding of budget caps and a revolutionary F1 that never happened. 

[rjsports]

If the three car teams is going to happen. You will only see, Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren being able to that. Maybe Williams since they are in a better financial position than previous years. Force India has already said that they aren't going to run 3 cars because it's too expensive. And I can't see Lotus managing to do that. I also doubt Red Bull is going to invest even more in Toro Rosso for that 3rd spot as well.

 

If 3 cars per team is going to happen then you can pretty much change the whole points table. If you would keep give points to the top 10, based on this season. Only Mercedes, Red Bull, Williams and Ferrari would score points.

[maximilian]

Well if 3 cars happens then my prediction would be.

 

Mercedes

 

Hamilton

Rosberg

Alonso

 

Alonso did say it'll be "obvious" why he waited to announce - if he expects 3-car teams to be a reality for next year, this would be the "obvious" thing he is waiting for!

[McLaren]

Three car teams surely means the best 3-4 teams take all the points, and the teams who now finish 6,7,8,9,10 finish outside the top 10, get no points, less money, means more financial problems...etc, etc. Won't this just lead to a vicious circle?

 

Don't think that it would affect them in terms of money they get. The money is based on position in the constructers.. so with less teams.. if anything they may get more money? Not entirely sure tbh though.. but I guess they may get less TV coverage if all the best teams have 3 cars, so I think that might be the only way they will be affected.

[stewie]

I get the impression (only from reading on here etc) that it really is make or break for Marussia, and they have to keep that 9th place in the championship as it'll be worth megabucks. I hope that money is enough to keep them going, I do think they are a plucky little team  .

[LuckyStrike1]

Alonso did say it'll be "obvious" why he waited to announce - if he expects 3-car teams to be a reality for next year, this would be the "obvious" thing he is waiting for!

 

If three car teams for 2015 is "obvious" then I guess we have a new meaning of the word obvious from now on .... 

[Exb]

If three car teams for 2015 is "obvious" then I guess we have a new meaning of the word obvious from now on ....

Not obvious but if 3 car teams are possible (and I'm sure they know a lot more about the chance of it happening than we do) then its worth waiting to see if his prefered option of a merc drive is available - I would have thought that was an obvious decision, especially if he has a McLaren contract as a fall back option.

However 2 things make me doubt this scenario, McLaren accepting they are just a back-up plan and then taking on a driver who clearly would rather be elsewhere and Merc taking 3 established drivers all fighting for the #1, especially after the issues this year - I would have thought a promising young driver would have been safer and more likely to tow the company line alongside their 2 star drivers.

[F1matt]

If three car teams are introduced, and I think it would be a push to do it for next season and have a the teams agree on a format then Mercedes would put Wehrlein into the extra seat, they have struggled to keep a lid on Rosberg and Hamilton never mind factoring another top line driver!

[Kristian]

i thought if it went to 3-car teams, the rules say that one cannot count for the championship? (which I think is utterly ludicrous). 

 

Therefore why would Alonso go to Mercedes? 

[LuckyStrike1]

i thought if it went to 3-car teams, the rules say that one cannot count for the championship? (which I think is utterly ludicrous). 

 

Therefore why would Alonso go to Mercedes? 

 

 

Now we are getting into speculation about speculation. 

 

But they would probably limit just two cars to score points for the WCC but all three cars/drivers would score individually for the WDC. 

[KavB]

I don't know if they already have a rule for 3 car teams but I would presume only the highest and lowest finishing position would count for points in the constructors championship. That would cause a right mess when trying to calculate the points table after a mess.

 

Would Alonso hold out hoping 3 car teams will actually happen? It's not an unrealistic thought... Caterham will not be here next year and who knows if Sauber or Marussia will stay. 

[Kristian]

Now we are getting into speculation about speculation. 

 

But they would probably limit just two cars to score points for the WCC but all three cars/drivers would score individually for the WDC. 

 

OK that makes more sense, but still why not let all 3 score? How do you decide which two score - at the beginning of the season, or the two highest at the end?

 

Still, I think Mercedes wouldn't put Alonso with Hamilton and Rosberg - yes the team would be formidable, but I think FA would bring too much politics with him. 

[LuckyStrike1]

OK that makes more sense, but still why not let all 3 score? How do you decide which two score - at the beginning of the season, or the two highest at the end?

 

Still, I think Mercedes wouldn't put Alonso with Hamilton and Rosberg - yes the team would be formidable, but I think FA would bring too much politics with him. 

 

 

Because perhaps not all teams would run three cars. For instance it's hard to imagine midfield teams like Lotus, Sauber, Williams and Force India having funds to run three cars. Perhaps Toro Rosso thanks to Red Bull but that's it. 

 

So they would have to come up with an idea to equalize the team championship between those running three cars and those running two cars. 

 

There are other championships where they have allowed for some teams to run with more cars than others. For team championships there's been a few different solutions for these multi car teams:

- You have to nominate your two team championship point scoring cars before the season and stick to it

- You have to nominated your two team point scoring cars ahead of each round

- your two best placed cars are counted

 

Not a difficult thing to solve would the need for three car teams arise in F1. Unfortunately I see three car teams not as a solution to a problem but the consequence of a problem not solved. 

 

Anyway - would it happen, all three drivers in a team would still be able to score points for the drivers championship, 

[F1ultimate]

The F1 audience is already dwindling and a three car setup would be like putting peroxide on a wound. Who would want to watch a race series in which the podium can get locked out by one team, or our favorite driver is spare wheel for the two other drivers.

 

I see nothing positive in having three cars per team. It's a waste of money and talent.

[Balnazzard]

Honestly, the top teams might have resources enough to run 3 cars already for next season....but I very much doubt the midfield teams have....and on the other hand it would make even harder for the midfield teams, let alone those at the very back to score ANY points....So overall I find it really hard to believe that all the teams would agree on 3rd cars atleast for next season....so should Caterham and Marussia fall, then we shall see only 18 drivers next season...Haas coming in 2016, then we get 20 cars which should be good amount anyway.

Edited by Balnazzard, 23 October 2014 - 13:34.

[Jimisgod]

@jim: Ferrari to fold?

@fullthrottle: come on, that's just negotiations. If the commercial rights' holder needs those 3rd cars then the big teams will crank them out at a good profit.

Oops. But has Ferrari even turned up this year?

[maverick69]

I wonder if they're considering dusting off the old "Jim Clark Cup"?

Edited by maverick69, 23 October 2014 - 14:03.

[Gorma]

The F1 audience is already dwindling and a three car setup would be like putting peroxide on a wound. Who would want to watch a race series in which the podium can get locked out by one team, or our favorite driver is spare wheel for the two other drivers.

I see nothing positive in having three cars per team. It's a waste of money and talent.

With three cars pit stops will be a nightmare. One will get the optimized strategy, one will suffer and one will get the raw deal and it gets worse if a safety car comes out.

[Stephane]

One pitstall per car, as in every other motorsport competition. Limit on the nulber of mechanics per car.

 

Not a big deal.