Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 15 votes

McLaren-Honda MP4-30 (New Era)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
3993 replies to this topic

#3251 Treads

Treads
  • Member

  • 2,806 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 12 February 2015 - 11:53

Check this out: 

http://www1.skysport...pre-season-2015

 

Only available to people in UK or people with a VPN ;-)

 

Apologies if it has been posted before... Seems to be from Jerez? Lots of discussion of McLaren, I will edit this post to add the timings of McLaren MP4-30 mentions / analysis. 

 

Edits:

2:45 (McLaren "most interesting" car)

8:50 Ted Kravitz interview with Matt Morris (changes to engines, variable trumpets

11:23 Scarbs talking through drawings of the car on the 'Skypad'

 

Hmm feels like this must be quite old material, assume it has been posted somewhere else, oh well can't hurt to post again. 


Edited by Treads, 12 February 2015 - 12:01.


Advertisement

#3252 Treads

Treads
  • Member

  • 2,806 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 12 February 2015 - 12:12

http://www.auto-moto...fotoshow_item=4

 

In this picture I think the RB rear end looks slimmer than ours. 



#3253 Maustinsj

Maustinsj
  • Member

  • 5,030 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 12 February 2015 - 12:21

http://www.auto-moto...fotoshow_item=4

 

In this picture I think the RB rear end looks slimmer than ours. 

 

The cooling that's higher up in the McLaren seems to be added to the lower cooling ducts of the Red Bull. If anything, I'd say the McLaren was smaller in the rear.



#3254 Nicktendo86

Nicktendo86
  • Member

  • 2,687 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 12 February 2015 - 12:57

I would say they are about the same but, as Maustinsj points out, the cooling bits are in different places so they are slightly different shapes. Will be fascinating to see how each car develops over the year, the McLaren with Peter Prod and the Red Bull without. Might be able to see how vital he was to their success over the past few years...



#3255 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 10,824 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 12 February 2015 - 13:31

Unless they have an insider access to both Mercedes and Honda's Engine data (Extremely unlikely) I failed to see how they came to such conclusion. Pirelli guys are the only people with a rough idea of each teams Engine output.  

 

Especially given individual engines don't make identical hp to the single digit!  Heck different dyno runs give +- a range of results.



#3256 muramasa

muramasa
  • Member

  • 8,479 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 12 February 2015 - 17:24

Arai interview, bit of mish mash of various sources. Some interesting parts here and there but couldnt be bothered to make concise summary so just rough translation of all.

 

http://www.f1-stinge...2/11/055056.php

http://www.f1-stinge...2/11/055058.php

http://response.jp/a.../11/244053.html

http://response.jp/a.../12/244078.html

 

 

"Satisfied with token arrangement?"

  • At first we as newcomer were not allowed to do in season developing, but in the end we are given the average of unused tokens by other 3. We requested fairness and transparency, and in terms of fairness it reached to the level that all 4 manufacturers can agree on.

 

"But it will not be clear how many tokens will be available at the point of 28 Feb. Isn't it difficult to deal with in such uncertainty?"

  • For instance, last year, engine itself was frozen at 28 Feb 2014 for the other teams too, but they should have continued development for '15 engine. So, same for us basically. It depends on how we will apply the homologation finally. Anyway as for using tokens, it's about for which area the newly developed parts can be used, so we think there's no problem about it.

 

"Dennis said something like "Honda PU has technology that has never been seen before". Could you tell us what it is?"

  • Well we will see after we completed more laps. One thing is that what is important is packaging. In F1 there is strict demand aero-wise, so it is required to house compact PU in compact chassis without compromising PU performance. So we had hard time in layout and packaging. But in the end we think we could make one competitive package. Ron is confident in the package too. That also helped establish mutual trust between Mclaren and Honda.

 

"But you have to have output that is competitive level in order to fight with others. The development method was to achieve certain output level first, followed by securing durability and reliability next?"

  • In tech designing, pursing power/output doesnt necessarily mean it will be heavier and bigger. But reliability is essential as you said, so we're preparing with that in mind.

 

"Do you think you can go on to be competitive enough, in a situation that Honda's new package might allow Mclaren to have better upward curve in vehicle and aero development?"

  • In terms of packaging bw engine and chassis, that's true. We believe the potential is very high, and pushing development to the extent that it would be impossible to make the system smaller than currently is anymore.
  • As for Jerez testing, there was big perception gap b/w our purpose of the testing and everyone's expectation. You might have expected to see us amassing many mileage on par with top teams, but things are not so easy. We made aggressive approach in packaging, so were checking to see if all system working properly and data and setting work as designed, etc, rather than outright output level. We expected lap time like that. So we aren't worried about it. You might wonder if it's ok with such big gap in numbers, but performance wasnt our objective. We think we could pass the first step.

 

"Are there any technology that can be fed back to roadcars? For example heat recovery, I cant imagine how heat recovery can be applied to roadcars? could you explain?"

  • Heat recovery is one of technologies in current F1 that have potential to be adopted to roadcars, but it's not that it can be applied instantly.  Also battery tech is one, you exchange such huge amount of electricity in very short space of time, so we're going to challenge in battery as an extension of roadcar hybrid tech. Then the most basic technology that is combustion, actually right now the efficiency of roadcar ICE is quite good. We cannot show inside the engine, but we're confident that our roadcar engine tech is at quite high level in terms of keeping ideal combustion condition. Otherwise I think we wouldnt be able to achieve current level of output. So, we understand that all those current F1 technology has future in sight and is going good direction, so that's why we decided to join and it's worth challenging.

 

"Different category, but last year Honda have suffered a lot in comparison to Toyota in Super Formula. In ever changing technology and regulation situations, I think heating related issue is becoming more and more serious issue. Do you have any opinion about it? Also about the new facility in Sakura, is it ok to understand that it's in full operation now?""

  • As for heat, it's about whether to "suffer" or to "use it" is what we reckon. It's ICE, so it's about how effectively you burn gasoline and turn it into energy to drive the car forward. In current PU, there's heat recovery, and also if you pursue output by compressing with turbo the temp of compressor air gets high, so cooling the air down is essential, otherwise you cannot get power. There are many things, but basically it's about how well you manage the heat in order to increase efficiency, that's how we understand, and what we are challenging right now.
  • Same for domestic series, heat becomes an issue if you increase output. In F1 it's more severe, so it's about striking good balance overall rather than just outright power, so chasing all aspect aggressively, and make packaging tight as a result, sth like that. We think that both utilizing heat and managing heat are essential for current and future racing and machine designing.
  • As for Sakura facility, it began to operate back in Jan 2014, but hasnt reached full operation yet. Roadcar division has moved to Sakura completely. F1 development is still being done at Tochigi as well.

 

"Honda engine was poor in domestic series last year when brandnew engine was introduced in both Super Formula and Super GT. To be frank this gets me worried for F1. What is your idea about it and prospect?"

  • Different category, but both departments working together and sharing at Tochigi. Working at higher level, so issue naturally occurs in area where development is pushed aggressively. We know it so not worried about it. For example we had tough time in first half of the year. But prior to season start, we already knew we were going to have tough time and about what. Then we could recover as the season progressed. It's just that it took some time to prepare everything and overcome issues. So we are always aware of what we have to do and the extent of the gap in front of us, rather than wandering blindly.
  • F1 is extreme version of that. We have target in sight. We have to be on equal term gainst the last year's champion team. In order for that to be the case, we are challenging at higher level technologically by making aggressive approach in all area, so that us encountering problems is somewhat inevitable to some degree. We estimated how high the wall is in front of us, and prepared what countermeasures to take beforehand, and are tackling issues one by one right now. So, if I say "dont worry", I'll get called whatever people like to call, so I wouldnt say so here now, but we are working on it with mindset of "will definitely overcome difficulty". We are working under great pressure in order to be at max level possible and ready at opening race, and to meet fans expectation and please fans.

 

"You attended and observed F1 testing one year ago. Compared to that time, how different was it this year?"

  • Last year I was sitting at grand stand of Jerez. First day saw very few action, quiet day mostly. Still, compared to that, our running was very limited. Quite different situation, I admit. I reckon that the other teams making that much running this year means that they made huge advancement from last year. We couldnt run in 1st and 2nd days but 3rd and 4th days were still comparable to last year's 1st few days at Jerez for other teams. Hybrid is working properly, so.
  • That's advantageous aspect of joining 1 year later. But we had very limited running compared to rivals, which should cause anxiety. We understand the deficiency, so what we can achieve at next testing session is key. We have some unfinished tasks from Jerez, as well as what we found can be pushed more. So evaluating those and advancing development is objective for Barcelona.

 

"It is said that one of the reasons Ferrari struggled last year was prioritizing aero too much and making PU too compact so that they suffered from lack of power. In fact this year's Ferrari looks fatter than last years. On the other hand it's the opposite for Mclaren. If the small packaged PU indeed turns out to be competitive, that would be remarkable. What do you reckon?"

  • I cant say anything about it because it's not that I can look at other teams package in detail. But we have confidence about packaging. Mclaren arent making any request for alteration in concept about it. We agree on making more aggressive approach to each other, that's how MP4-30 is born.
  • I think current situation where we respect each other and exchange candidly demanding to each other is good. Innovation tend to come out in such circumstance.
  • As you say, it's quite small. We made corresponding efforts, many efforts, in both externally noticeable/visible parts and internal / invisible parts. We think we could manage heat issues in that small packaging. But there are some parts that are unsolved and need further refinement, so we are dealing with it right now. Please feel free to have high expectation, yes.
  • It's easy to make it bigger, but if you resort to that easy route you wont be able to fight with others. We think that both aero and power have to be pursued without compromise in order to make competitive car.
 
"by doing F1, what benefit is to Honda, and how has Honda as a company improved? What do you think?"
  • The great thing about doing F1 is that you have to have accurate and swift decision making in limited time and tight schedule. Not only that, you are required to be capable of making instant decision on-site, without asking someone else. Engineers in charge are put in such harsh environment. There, sometimes you make correct judgement, sometimes you fail of course. Engineers accumulate experience through those processes. Swift decision in limited time frame. Even if it's not the bestest decision, you learn to hit "best possible point" in short time. Engineers can get such training naturally. That's what senior engineers in the company went through as well. So, as a method of developing/training engineers, racing is ideal place to be. 

 

---------

 

Here there's vague rumor that Honda might use HCCI (Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition) technology for F1 engine. One question above obviously wanted to ask about this. Someone asked about HCCI in Facebook Q&A session too but Arai dodged the question. Not holding my breath tho as the technology is still at quite immature stage as I understand it.

 

It seems they are putting emphasis on compactness/package. I just hope they arent "obsessed" with compactness this time, just like they were obsessed with "horse power" back in 00s and 90s.


Edited by muramasa, 12 February 2015 - 17:39.


#3257 Lotus53B

Lotus53B
  • Member

  • 4,163 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 12 February 2015 - 17:40

Would HCCI be legal under current technical regs?

 

F1 tech regs, 5.9.1...  Ignition is only permitted by means of a single ignition coil and single spark plug per cylinder.



#3258 muramasa

muramasa
  • Member

  • 8,479 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 12 February 2015 - 17:58

dont know. The claim is that HCCI uses spark plug, apparently, it's just that it doesnt always use it, so it's ok. Obviously I dont know much.



#3259 Owen

Owen
  • Member

  • 13,184 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 13 February 2015 - 14:05

McLaren may not unleash potential until China

http://www.espn.co.u...ory/191311.html



Advertisement

#3260 Newbrray

Newbrray
  • Member

  • 2,750 posts
  • Joined: December 13

Posted 13 February 2015 - 14:06

McLaren may not unleash potential until China

http://www.espn.co.u...ory/191311.html

 

The goal post being moved again (oh dear)



#3261 MikeV1987

MikeV1987
  • Member

  • 6,371 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 13 February 2015 - 14:10

"unleash potential", ooooooh, nice try ron.


Edited by MikeV1987, 13 February 2015 - 14:11.


#3262 Lemans

Lemans
  • Member

  • 2,739 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 13 February 2015 - 14:19

McLaren may not unleash potential until China

http://www.espn.co.u...ory/191311.html

 

That still sounds optimistic. I was expecting the entire season would be spent working the bugs out.



#3263 Rinehart

Rinehart
  • Member

  • 15,147 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 13 February 2015 - 14:29

The goal post being moved again (oh dear)

I was expecting to see the full potential in Australia 2016, so China this year sounds like an improvement to me...



#3264 mclarensmps

mclarensmps
  • Member

  • 8,867 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 13 February 2015 - 14:37

McLaren may not unleash potential until China

http://www.espn.co.u...ory/191311.html

That headline is pretty misleading if you ask me :/



#3265 Hollow

Hollow
  • Member

  • 370 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 13 February 2015 - 14:47

Thanks for the interview murasama! Haha, I love when he says 'we have target in sight'. Mercedes fans must be ******* their pants now.



#3266 Button4life

Button4life
  • Member

  • 7,182 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 13 February 2015 - 16:43

McLaren may not unleash potential until China

http://www.espn.co.u...ory/191311.html

2013 all over again. I hope they'll unleash the potential before Brazil...



#3267 wati

wati
  • Member

  • 1,155 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 13 February 2015 - 16:50

Don't know where all this talk about "potential" is coming from. Looks like the engine ATM is utter cr*ap, and McLaren hasn't built a decent car for years ... :stoned:



#3268 SlickMick

SlickMick
  • Member

  • 555 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 13 February 2015 - 16:59

"unleash potential", ooooooh, nice try ron.


"Unleash" is fine, it's only when say "unlock" that we'll need to worry.

#3269 GoldenColt

GoldenColt
  • Member

  • 6,261 posts
  • Joined: December 13

Posted 13 February 2015 - 17:05

Thanks for the interview murasama! Haha, I love when he says 'we have target in sight'. Mercedes fans must be ******* their pants now.

 

I can barely walk.

 

Not.



#3270 Lemans

Lemans
  • Member

  • 2,739 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 13 February 2015 - 17:34

Don't know where all this talk about "potential" is coming from. Looks like the engine ATM is utter cr*ap, and McLaren hasn't built a decent car for years ... :stoned:

 

I'd say it's been 2 years. What do you say?


Edited by Lemans, 13 February 2015 - 17:35.


#3271 Newbrray

Newbrray
  • Member

  • 2,750 posts
  • Joined: December 13

Posted 13 February 2015 - 17:44

Thanks for the interview murasama! Haha, I love when he says 'we have target in sight'. Mercedes fans must be ******* their pants now.

 

oh yes, we quiver with fear :)



#3272 showtime

showtime
  • Member

  • 3,032 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 13 February 2015 - 17:56

Don't know where all this talk about "potential" is coming from. Looks like the engine ATM is utter cr*ap, and McLaren hasn't built a decent car for years ... :stoned:

 

Oh, you must know a lot about the Honda PU, can you share your knowledge?



#3273 micktosin

micktosin
  • Member

  • 1,077 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 13 February 2015 - 18:01

Don't know where all this talk about "potential" is coming from. Looks like the engine ATM is utter cr*ap, and McLaren hasn't built a decent car for years ... :stoned:

So because McLaren have been uncompetitive for two years, you can safely assume the car doesn't have a potential? You are talking as if McLaren is Force-india with a worse management structure. 



#3274 SanDiegoGo

SanDiegoGo
  • Member

  • 1,065 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 13 February 2015 - 18:28

so, mclaren have a floating gearbox, yes/no? pictures seem to show a clear path under the gearbox.



#3275 Kimble

Kimble
  • Member

  • 1,240 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 13 February 2015 - 18:28

You are talking as if McLaren is Force-india with a worse management structure. 

 

In fairness, there were times last year this looked to be the case.



#3276 Timothy

Timothy
  • Member

  • 647 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 13 February 2015 - 19:10

In fairness, there were times last year this looked to be the case.

 

Well..both Force India and Macca drivers outscored one driver in red. :p  



#3277 NoSanityClause

NoSanityClause
  • Member

  • 1,390 posts
  • Joined: May 14

Posted 13 February 2015 - 20:04

For those requesting to see the full potential of the Honda engine unleashed:

 



#3278 wati

wati
  • Member

  • 1,155 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 13 February 2015 - 20:38

Oh, you must know a lot about the Honda PU, can you share your knowledge?

 

It can't run the same amount of laps as mercedes even 5s off the pace. What do you reckon?



#3279 charly0418

charly0418
  • Member

  • 3,289 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 13 February 2015 - 21:29

Im guessing McLaren fans cringe every time they read the word potential now



Advertisement

#3280 mclarensmps

mclarensmps
  • Member

  • 8,867 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 13 February 2015 - 22:00

It can't run the same amount of laps as mercedes even 5s off the pace. What do you reckon?

 

It's testing. What do you propose is a good barometer to judge performance?



#3281 pongkai

pongkai
  • Member

  • 302 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 13 February 2015 - 23:17

Im guessing McLaren fans cringe every time they read the word potential now

Henceforth we'll refer to it as the p-word.



#3282 showtime

showtime
  • Member

  • 3,032 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 13 February 2015 - 23:44

It can't run the same amount of laps as mercedes even 5s off the pace. What do you reckon?

I reckon is just testing and you know that they are not going to be 5s slower come Melbourne. 



#3283 Rasputin

Rasputin
  • Member

  • 960 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 13 February 2015 - 23:50

On a positive note, I believe that McLaren Honda has decided not to play safe, rather go for broke on this one as they are well aware of what they are up against.

 

It might take a while, like a race or three, but I doubt that Ron cares for being an also-ran?


Edited by Rasputin, 13 February 2015 - 23:51.


#3284 Button4life

Button4life
  • Member

  • 7,182 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 13 February 2015 - 23:51

I reckon is just testing and you know that they are not going to be 5s slower come Melbourne. 

Their livery looks a bit like Marussia. So why not :p



#3285 Ikebana

Ikebana
  • Member

  • 342 posts
  • Joined: December 12

Posted 14 February 2015 - 00:41

I haven't been paying attention to McLaren much until I knew Alonso was going there so I'm not sure how it was, but I'm personally more worried about the aero rather than the new Honda engine as last year they supposedly had a Mercedes engine and they didn't do much.

 

I'm very excited and optimistic though that even if Alonso won't likely fight for anything at least it'd be a very productive season. And with Button being not much behind (unlike Massa or Kimi) or even beating Alonso in some races, it'll be great once the car gets to be a podium contender.


Edited by Ikebana, 14 February 2015 - 00:42.


#3286 Treads

Treads
  • Member

  • 2,806 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 14 February 2015 - 01:07

It can't run the same amount of laps as mercedes even 5s off the pace. What do you reckon?


The number of laps mercedes ran was - according to scarbs - a record. Are we to see this is the normal standard? No, that would be moronic. Conversely mclaren ran considerably more laps and at better pace than the championships runners up of 2014 did in the first 2014 test, with much less serious issues.

So I put it to everyone on this board that the outcome of this season is totally unknown, the quality of the pu is totally unknown, at this stage, to everyone outside Honda and mclaren. Right now Mac could finish last in the championship. But based on rb's example they could very well be second.

(I can safely rule out first, I think...)

#3287 MirNyet

MirNyet
  • Member

  • 3,598 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 14 February 2015 - 01:21

Actually - until the car runs with everything turned full up - you cannot even rule out first. its a total unknown. The automatic assumption of many is to lean towards the negative and completely ignore the work that McLaren did upon itself last year and whatever work Honda has done in the past 2 years.

 

The car looks sensible - more so than most of the grid - the design team hired by McLaren last year is very good and Honda have poured a small fortune into R&D on an engine which is said to be cutting edge. Quite a lot to feel positive about really. It really shouldn't have come as any surprise that the car had issues on its first day - all the cars last year did so why shouldn't this one?

 

Patience is more than likely going to be rewarded with regards to McLaren Honda this year I think.



#3288 Hollow

Hollow
  • Member

  • 370 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 14 February 2015 - 01:55

I don't get it. Arai has explained it all remarkably well. It's all there for you to read it. Some people sound like car salesmen and some people sound like they know what they're doing. Ron is the salesman guy, Honda talks no BS. They know they have an engine ready to win the championship.



#3289 Treads

Treads
  • Member

  • 2,806 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 14 February 2015 - 04:43

Yeah but it seems too much to expect Mac to come back from all those aero woes of the last 2 years inside 1 winter. Merc took 4 years to get back to the front after the BGP season and losing half their design staff, and now they have a very refined, developed aero package and car overall. In contrast Mac will start off with something relatively early in its development cycle, something undeveloped, and probably slow (as well as PU issues) at the start of the year. So 1st looks incredibly unlikely.

If I had to place odds, I'd say 80% likely we are 2nd to 4th, 19% we are 5th or worse, and 1 in a 100 we are champions come the end of the season.

The thing that makes me optimistic is the drivers - we know week in, week out they will maximize the points gained. I don't rate Massa, he was **** last year in my view, so Williams can't say that. Kvyyvvyyat is a bit of an unknown, and probably not in the same league as JB or Fred. Seb and Kimi are coming off terrible seasons, so even with a good car the Fezzas might not do so well. Merc are likely I run away at the front with two excellent drivers. But Mac, even with some reliability issues or a car that starts the year off the pace, might collect enough points to come a decent second. Fingers crossed.

#3290 Hollow

Hollow
  • Member

  • 370 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 14 February 2015 - 05:01

 

So 1st looks incredibly unlikely.

 

It looks very complicated to me as well. It will depend on many things and all of them have to go right, and Mercedes must have reliability problems like no doubt we will have. But we'll be too close for comfort so, at least, it won't be a boring season. That's my hope. We'll see.



#3291 Brazzers

Brazzers
  • Member

  • 1,479 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 14 February 2015 - 06:24

I don't get it. Arai has explained it all remarkably well. It's all there for you to read it. Some people sound like car salesmen and some people sound like they know what they're doing. Ron is the salesman guy, Honda talks no BS. They know they have an engine ready to win the championship.

 

If and a big if McLaren did provide Honda with the Merc engine data last year then it might be possible but then again how would Honda know until everyone has run in anger? Even I wouldn't sell a financial instrument without measuring it against the competition. 


Edited by Brazzers, 14 February 2015 - 06:24.


#3292 MP430

MP430
  • Member

  • 128 posts
  • Joined: February 15

Posted 14 February 2015 - 07:14

If and a big if McLaren did provide Honda with the Merc engine data last year then it might be possible but then again how would Honda know until everyone has run in anger? Even I wouldn't sell a financial instrument without measuring it against the competition.


Pretty sure McLaren would have some idea of the power/torque going thru its gearbox.

Its been mentioned before. Thought. It would have been obvious.

#3293 Brazzers

Brazzers
  • Member

  • 1,479 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 14 February 2015 - 07:55

Pretty sure McLaren would have some idea of the power/torque going thru its gearbox.

Its been mentioned before. Thought. It would have been obvious.

 

Yeah, I understand that but like I said Honda won't know if they have a championship winning car until it's run in anger. 

 

McLaren had the championship winning engine last season but that wasn't much use when the chassis wasn't great. It's more the overall package, a bit too premature to declare championship winning car or engine just yet. 



#3294 Force Ten

Force Ten
  • Member

  • 4,100 posts
  • Joined: April 99

Posted 14 February 2015 - 08:40

If and a big if McLaren did provide Honda with the Merc engine data last year then it might be possible but then again how would Honda know until everyone has run in anger? Even I wouldn't sell a financial instrument without measuring it against the competition. 

It's not a particulary big if. No, it's not an if at all. They provided Honda with ALL the data they could. That's the way the game is played and that is why Merc provided them with zero help on their part.



#3295 Techcheat

Techcheat
  • Member

  • 191 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 14 February 2015 - 09:04

Really nothing conclusive can be said either positive or negative at this stage. So I guess rest just depends on whether you look at life optimistically or pessimistically. I am optimistic.

 

If the car turns out to be a dud would I complain? Not really. Caz unlike Ferrari for past so many years, Mc Laren have gone radical and not repeated the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result. They lured the right resources from Red Bull, they fired their team boss, they let go of the past and lured Alonso back. They paid top dollar and went aggresive. If it still doesnt work, no regrets as you cant say they didnt try.

 

I feel they would be on Podium come Australia. I will be revisting this thread again.



#3296 Brazzers

Brazzers
  • Member

  • 1,479 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 14 February 2015 - 09:18

It's not a particulary big if. No, it's not an if at all. They provided Honda with ALL the data they could. That's the way the game is played and that is why Merc provided them with zero help on their part.

 

I should have said in regards to the design aspects and other core structures of the Merc engine, but yes McLaren would have done whatever they were able to help Honda. 


Edited by Brazzers, 14 February 2015 - 09:18.


#3297 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 33,139 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 14 February 2015 - 09:35

Really nothing conclusive can be said either positive or negative at this stage. So I guess rest just depends on whether you look at life optimistically or pessimistically. I am optimistic.

 

If the car turns out to be a dud would I complain? Not really. Caz unlike Ferrari for past so many years, Mc Laren have gone radical and not repeated the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result. They lured the right resources from Red Bull, they fired their team boss, they let go of the past and lured Alonso back. They paid top dollar and went aggresive. If it still doesnt work, no regrets as you cant say they didnt try.

 

I feel they would be on Podium come Australia. I will be revisting this thread again.

 

With McLaren, "going radical" is precisely what they've replicated over and over again hoping for a different result. The MP4-18 failed. The octopus exhaust failed. Their "radical" approach to strategy and pitstops in 2012 failed. The MP4-28 failed. The rear suspension mushrooms failed. Their only recent success was the F-duct, but it didn't win them the title. If there's one thing McLaren need to stop, it's "going radical."



#3298 Force Ten

Force Ten
  • Member

  • 4,100 posts
  • Joined: April 99

Posted 14 February 2015 - 10:04

With McLaren, "going radical" is precisely what they've replicated over and over again hoping for a different result. The MP4-18 failed. The octopus exhaust failed. Their "radical" approach to strategy and pitstops in 2012 failed. The MP4-28 failed. The rear suspension mushrooms failed. Their only recent success was the F-duct, but it didn't win them the title. If there's one thing McLaren need to stop, it's "going radical."

Basically, yes. Yet when taking into account that what they have is a guy that was hands on in designing the last batch of best Formula One cars out there and what he seems to be implementing is bog standard version of their design philosophies then the only thing radical in it really is the radical departure of design philosophies that proved not to work in the last few seasons.



#3299 Force Ten

Force Ten
  • Member

  • 4,100 posts
  • Joined: April 99

Posted 14 February 2015 - 10:12

There's one thing I don't understand about the meaning of the term "gardening leave". It has been said that Prodromou was only allowed to start working on the McLaren in September last year. That is pretty straight forward. But that was an official capacity. What are the ways to prevent him working for them in an inofficial capacity? Could he answer phonecalls from home office? Could he not buy a burner from a petrol station to make those calls? Could he in his spare time design loose concepts of a car on his laptop and somehow those files would end up on a supercomputer on the Technology Center somewhere?

 

Or... yes he would be working less efficiently than on official capacity but he would have been already able to work earlier? - The 30 seems to be too much like a Red Bull to be just suddenly been built from September on. Unless they guys before him just said "hey let's build a Red Bull".



Advertisement

#3300 kosmos

kosmos
  • Member

  • 11,986 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 14 February 2015 - 10:31

There's one thing I don't understand about the meaning of the term "gardening leave". It has been said that Prodromou was only allowed to start working on the McLaren in September last year. That is pretty straight forward. But that was an official capacity. What are the ways to prevent him working for them in an inofficial capacity? Could he answer phonecalls from home office? Could he not buy a burner from a petrol station to make those calls? Could he in his spare time design loose concepts of a car on his laptop and somehow those files would end up on a supercomputer on the Technology Center somewhere?

 

Or... yes he would be working less efficiently than on official capacity but he would have been already able to work earlier? - The 30 seems to be too much like a Red Bull to be just suddenly been built from September on. Unless they guys before him just said "hey let's build a Red Bull".

 

 "gardening leave" is BS and I'm pretty sure that nobody gives a damn about it as long as is not blatantly broken. If they want to police it, they will need to hire private detectives.