77 replies to this topic

[Amphicar]

 

 

This stigma is exactly why he does deserve sympathy. He has made a mistake but he hasn't made any attempt to conceal it - rather he has tackled it in the best way possible by confessing immediately to his family and fans. This act suggests that it was not his intent to cheat, and should really lead us to think about the best case rather than the worst case scenarios.

 

He will obviously serve a punishment, probably a ban, for a certain amount of time. However, he may well carry the stigma for the rest of his life. The proof is in the very first comment in this thread:

 

I would have more sympathy if he had owned up before he was caught by a random drug test. Confessing after you have been caught is just an attempt to make the best of a bad situation.

Edited by Amphicar, 01 January 2015 - 22:51.

[Disgrace]

The interview itself is behind a paywall, but other sites have more of the transcript:

 

 

Et de raconter l’envers du décor : «En sport auto, j’avais en moyenne quatre contrôles par saison. Des contrôles urinaires. Même quand j’étais troisième pilote en F1, j’y passais. Je n’ai jamais rien eu. Je ne vais pas dire que de temps en temps, dans le passé, je ne faisais pas la fête, que je ne buvais pas. A cette occasion, j’aurais pu me faire prendre. Et là…» Avant d’éclairer sur la descente aux enfers : «Ce jour-là, quand je suis arrivé à la gare de l’Est, je ne m’imaginais pas prendre l’avion le lendemain pour la Malaisie. Je n’étais pas bien. Je ne me voyais pas courir. Je n’avais pas la tête à ça. J’ai changé d’hôtel, je n’étais plus joignable. Je voulais débrancher. J’ai trouvé un lascar, je lui ai donné de l’argent contre une enveloppe. Et voilà. Cela aurait pu être n’importe quoi (…) Je ne parle pas de suicide. Non. Je voulais juste arrêter de penser, soulager ma tête. Et puis le lendemain, j’ai pris l’avion. J’ai couru et à la sortie de l’épreuve, je vois le gars du contrôle qui me fait signe. Là, dans ma tête, j’ai compris de suite. J’ai bu. J’ai demandé, c’est bien toujours 100 ml, c’est cela. Je n’ai même pas cherché à faire à côté. Je savais que c’était mort. J’ai repris l’avion. J’ai fait des courses pour deux jours, pour ne pas sortir, être seul, chez moi, entre mes quatre murs. Puis j’ai appelé mes parents, pour leur expliquer. J’avais honte. Moi je gagne ma vie bien mieux qu’eux et voilà...»

 

The bolded translated:

 

That day, when I arrived at the Gare de l'Est, I could not imagine taking the plane to Malaysia the next day. I wasn't well. I could not see myself going. I didn't have the head for it. I changed the hotel, [so] I was no longer contactable. I wanted to disconnect. I found a guy, I gave him money for an envelope. And there you go. [The drugs] could have been anything.

 

So he ingested prior to flying out to Malaysia. It's clear he's going through personal pain due to his divorce, and turned to whatever the dealer gave him. You can pretty much guarantee that your average street dealer has little idea or motivation to find out what he's actually selling. Seems like it was a desperate situation. 

[ch103]

Seems as though it takes more than driving fast cars to get Frank's, a.k.a Blizzard's, heart racing.

[George Costanza]

Would James Hunt be racing in modern era? I don't think so given his lifestyle.

[rmpugh]

I would have more sympathy if he had owned up before he was caught by a random drug test. Confessing after you have been caught is just an attempt to make the best of a bad situation.

So what did you expect? For him to turn up at a FE race and shout "I TOOK COKE LAST WEEK!!"?

 

What annoys me is the daily mail style judgemental crap. What a guy does in his personal life has nothing to do with his ability to go racing. 

[Disgrace]

I would have more sympathy if he had owned up before he was caught by a random drug test. Confessing after you have been caught is just an attempt to make the best of a bad situation.

 

His personal life is in such trouble that he deliberately changes hotel so he cannot be contacted and turns to (unknown) drugs a day before he flies out for a race meeting. He then finishes the race and get randomly tested at which point he realises he's possibly just destroyed his career, his passion, his livelihood.

 

This all takes days place within a handful of days, and all of his original problems are still unresolved. Where in the timeline would be convenient for him to suddenly become lucid about his dire situation and own up to the authorities? He confessed to his parents after another two days. This response barely registers as human.

[Lee Nicolle]

He probably needed to take the edge off. A motorsport career from F1 to F Electric is a big step back!

And yes he is an idiot, his career choice now is office boy or cleaner!

[Sheepmachine]

So what did you expect? For him to turn up at a FE race and shout "I TOOK COKE LAST WEEK!!"?

What annoys me is the daily mail style judgemental crap. What a guy does in his personal life has nothing to do with his ability to go racing.

Yeah but if you or I were caught taking coke we would be in serious trouble with the law, Frank Montagny has been caught taking coke and therefore he is in trouble with the relevant authorities. The rules are the rules. He is being picked on it's just the rules.

[Doughnut King]

So he ingested prior to flying out to Malaysia. It's clear he's going through personal pain due to his divorce, and turned to whatever the dealer gave him. You can pretty much guarantee that your average street dealer has little idea or motivation to find out what he's actually selling. Seems like it was a desperate situation. 

 

It sounds as if he's not doing it casually.

Edited by Doughnut King, 02 January 2015 - 01:56.

[Jimisgod]

I wonder if there is an opening for a seat now? *I'll give it go*

The seat or the cocaine?

[Schumacher7]

Wow, a guy took some cocaine, get over it. Unless he was high in the car its not an issue, no different to having a few drinks a couple of days ago apart from the fact that it's illegal.

Illegal=/=Wrong

Also there's a difference between drug use and drug abuse, if he's taking coke regularly then yes okay I agree he has a problem (as may be the case here). If he's taking it occasionally because he enjoys it then what's wrong with that? One size does not fit all.

 

Most of this thread reads:

Drugs are bad, m'kay?

[Imperial]

Wow, a guy took some cocaine, get over it. Unless he was high in the car its not an issue, no different to having a few drinks a couple of days ago apart from the fact that it's illegal.
Illegal=/=Wrong
Also there's a difference between drug use and drug abuse, if he's taking coke regularly then yes okay I agree he has a problem (as may be the case here). If he's taking it occasionally because he enjoys it then what's wrong with that? One size does not fit all.

Most of this thread reads:
Drugs are bad, m'kay?

While not disagreeing with your holistic view on drug use (the blind eyes turned away from booze and ciggies as being the most widespread damaging drugs on the planet is beyond a joke) but the FIA of course must and will take a hardline stance on this. Beyond motorsport, the FIA are THE road safety organisation in Europe. This is a serious issue beyond mere sport.

Perhaps the other posters views merely reflect that seriousness?

[aguri]

I don't have a problem with any driver snorting coke or smoking dope in their spare time and don't think they should even test for it outside of race weekends. Wrong =/= Illegal. 

 

 

But Frank is an idiot for doing it a couple of days before a race. He should be in full preparation mode, keeping his fluids up, getting good sleep etc. Leave the coke for the after party when you win.

[anneomoly]

Drivers sign up to race for a team, which involves keeping themself competition eligible. Part of being competition eligible is the ability to pass drug tests, just like any other athlete (because FIA standards are the same as IOC - Olympic - ones IIRC). I have huge sympathy for athletes that test positive through a mistake (using an over the counter medication that has different ingredients in different countries is a common one to get caught out by). Montagny took something. He knew before he took it that he'd test positive throughout the race weekend. He knew after he took it and before he raced that he'd test positive, and then he went racing. He's an idiot. And while I'm guessing from other sports he'll probably wind up with a ban from the FIA, the truth is that he's not a Frankie Dettori god-like figure so he can't necessarily expect to walk out the other end of the ban with a job lined up.

 

Whether or not you think that coke ought to be on the list of banned substances for athletes is a different question, as is what the level of the drug for it to register as a 'positive' test. Whether or not you have sympathy for Franck Montagny the man rather than the driver is different question as well. Which, from that translation above, I do, hugely, and it really doesn't sound like he did it for fun times.

[jonpollak]

Have y'all read the TNF thread on the subject?

 

Excellent stuff.

 

Jp

[Amphicar]

There is a long association between Colombian marching powder (and other substances) and motor racing - there was a thread devoted to the subject on The Nostalgia Forum a while back: http://forums.autosp...usts/?hl= drugs

 

 

Have y'all read the TNF thread on the subject?

 

Excellent stuff.

 

Jp

They have if they saw my post yesterday!

[Risil]

I had already been through it but can confirm it's a great read. Few old posters in there I wish we heard more from as well.

Edited by Risil, 02 January 2015 - 18:43.

[LORDBYRON]

He will repent and ask for forgiveness book in to rehab to save face and keep his job what good it will do only time will tell.

[Sheepmachine]

Have y'all read the TNF thread on the subject?

Excellent stuff.

Jp

Thanks for the link JP really enjoyed reading it.

[jonpollak]

They have if they saw my post yesterday!

 

Jp's Foot in mouth.. That'll teach me to post without reading the whole thread

[alframsey]

Tbh as long as he wasn't high whilst actually racing then I couldn't care less, I get the impression it's more about appearing shocked and horrified on a moral level than actually being so (not necessarilly on this forum, more the wider media).

[Chubby_Deuce]

We were all outraged over those photos of Schumacher getting pissed at Suzuka, right?

[pikamoku]

Taking cocaine is not an "on/off" situation. You'r not in a professional mood and enjoying life (?) as desired, you are one person under the influence of taking drugs. 24/7. Period.

       i. I dont professionaly trust on a person who, in his private life,  is under the influence of drugs.

       ii. I have no problems with what he does in his personal life, but dont ask me to take him seriously. He's not a good professional any way. And yes, I know taking drugs (in many forms) is part of our society.

 

This is not about just taking PEDs, it's not about cheating, I dont think he did it to enhace his performance. Or maybe he did, in a wrong way IMO. He has made an error, take a two year ban (as other sports) and use this two years to think what he will do with his life.

 

My point is that Frank is not a good professional and I have doubts if he's an idiot for taking drugs (many factors could have an input here, so no judgmental here)

Edited by pikamoku, 03 January 2015 - 05:33.

[Risil]

I have trouble taking seriously people who can't be bothered to spell Franck Montagny's name correctly, but there you go...

[MaxScelerate]

Yeah but if you or I were caught taking coke we would be in serious trouble with the law, Frank Montagny has been caught taking coke and therefore he is in trouble with the relevant authorities. The rules are the rules. He is being picked on it's just the rules.

In trouble with the law for *having taken drugs* ?  I don't think so. In trouble with the law for possessing drugs, for getting caught *while* doing drugs, driving under the influence of drugs, all sorts of things can get you in trouble with the law, but "having done drugs in the past (recent or not)" isn't usually one of them.

[Disgrace]

Taking cocaine is not an "on/off" situation. You'r not in a professional mood and enjoying life (?) as desired, you are one person under the influence of taking drugs. 24/7. Period.

       i. I dont professionaly trust on a person who, in his private life,  is under the influence of drugs.

       ii. I have no problems with what he does in his personal life, but dont ask me to take him seriously. He's not a good professional any way. And yes, I know taking drugs (in many forms) is part of our society.

 

This is not about just taking PEDs, it's not about cheating, I dont think he did it to enhace his performance. Or maybe he did, in a wrong way IMO. He has made an error, take a two year ban (as other sports) and use this two years to think what he will do with his life.

 

My point is that Frank is not a good professional and I have doubts if he's an idiot for taking drugs (many factors could have an input here, so no judgmental here)

 

No, not period. Every individual represents his or her own case study in terms of their relationship with individual drugs. Cocaine is highly addictive, but that is not the same as saying that everyone who has ingested it is an addict. How can you say that everyone who has taken drugs is under their influence 24/7? Can you read his thoughts as he drives? Cocaine's (desired) affects last less than an hour.

 

How about those under the influence of legal highs such as caffeine or tobacco, or even those who partake in activities such as gambling, which stimulate the brain as if it was a drug? Are colleagues gathered around the coffee machine poor professionals, or is it rather that you aren't questioning the entirely arbitrary line drawn in the sand between legal and illegal drugs?

 

How can you claim that you have no problems with what he does in his private life if it affects, by your own admission, your view of him as a professional? This is hypocrisy. Franck makes a point of saying that over his career he has not partaken in drinking or partying:

 

Même quand j’étais troisième pilote en F1, j’y passais. Je n’ai jamais rien eu. Je ne vais pas dire que de temps en temps, dans le passé, je ne faisais pas la fête, que je ne buvais pas.

 

Is this incident the eternal criterion from which to cast judgement of his career? The evidence (he has failed a single drug test) suggests this is one lapse. His testimony suggests that actually, he has been a good professional, and that on this occasion his personal problems have overcome his professional obligations. He has made a error of judgement and owned up to it.

 

He will obviously be punished, but he also requires treatment. Yet the stigma you demonstrate will be punishment far beyond the hypothetical two-year ban you mention. Montagny may be a privileged racing driver with whom it may be difficult to empathise, but the principle applies to him as much it does to the discriminated who are stopped and frisked in the streets and institutionally prevented from being productive, working members of society.

[pikamoku]

@ Disgrace, I'll not quote your entire post. I respect your opinion about Franck (sorry for my previous misspelling Risil) but my point about not been professional stands, IMO. Please let me explain this:

 

 

How can you say that everyone who has taken drugs is under their influence 24/7?

No, I cant prove that, sorry. My feelling is that Franck (or anyone who takes cocaine) needs that little bit  extra to be "on", I'm not suggesting that he's dangerous (but could be), just that anyone feels the lack of this highly adictive substance (as said in your words). This is the reason of my unfortunate "24/7", sorry. I did not mean that he is on drugs any time any day.

 

 

How can you claim that you have no problems with what he does in his private life if it affects, by your own admission, your view of him as a professional? This is hypocrisy.

 

I dont get you here, I mean, it's possible that my bad english doesnt let me understand the subtles of this reasoning. My view is that I dont like to be involved (to be socially related) with anyone who takes drugs but if he/she wants to takes drugs is his/her personal choice. And if I had to contract him/her, I would have not, go home take whatever you want, I dont want you. Is that hypocrisy?

 

...or is it rather that you aren't questioning the entirely arbitrary line drawn in the sand between legal and illegal drugs?

that "line" is not arbitrary. Every "social drug" has its own line, and you or I could put it here or there, but clearly ten coffees draw a line far away from a "white line". IMO again.

 

 

I share your last  paragraph. He made a mistake, he will pay for it and then back to bussiness. That's my opinion too, I'm not asking a life long ban either.

Edited by pikamoku, 03 January 2015 - 17:33.

[Fastcake]

Well for those who haven't read already, the FIA have handed Montagny a two-year ban, backdated to December.

 

Story here