66 replies to this topic

[GenJackRipper]

So, I had this thought; tracks make a lot of noice and there are regulations concerining it; but if a track is close to an airport, shouldn't it get away with quite alot?
So I was thinking about France, and especially Nice. One of the most beautiful regions in the world, home to the Monaco Grand Prix, but no French Grand Prix.
Paul Ricard is good, but not close to any civilization.

So...

What about if a track was to be built close to Nice Airport?
Just north of the airport, there is a valley along the Var River, where the freeway goes before turning east towards Monaco and Italy.
It's mostly light industry, some farm land and just were the freeway turns, there is the new Allianz Riviera Stadium, home to OGC Nice.

If a track were to be laied out here; would that be allowed by french authorities?
Obviously it would be costly to destroy quite a few buildings, reroute roads, bury the freeway etc.

But from a noice perspective; would this be allowed? Since it's flanked by two mountains the noice shouldn't be to much to the east and west (were there is residential areas), to the north there isn't much and the south is the airport.

Imagine having a French Grand Prix here in the end of summer, about this time of year (end of august) before Italys Grand Prix, when the riviera is filled with tourists. It would be filled to the last seat!
The airport next to it and with infrastrcuture abound, it would be a easy place to access aswell.

(And yes, obviously it would be used more than for Formula One.
FIAWEC, MotoGP, the perfect place for track tests for cars etc)
 

The track I pasted is a mashup of the best corners according to FIAWEC-fans. Looks great to me.

[noikeee]

So... your suggestion is to tear up some 500 houses and a highway in the middle of a city? That's gonna come cheap.

[yasushi888]

I think you and MaxMylzahet will get along well

[Gyno]

France already has a great F1 track, called Magny Cours.

[GenJackRipper]

France already has a great F1 track, called Magny Cours.

Yeah, in the middle of nowhere. This is not.

[yasushi888]

Yeah, in the middle of nowhere. This is not.

 

Just in the middle of a river and town?!

[brr]

France already has a great F1 track, called Magny Cours.

 

They also have a lousy F1 track called Magny Cours. Must be a bit confusing.

[BRG]

If you're going to doodle with coloured pens on a map, at least try a little harder to make it realistic.  

[Ickx]

The TV and medical helicopters might have a problem with the airport, or the other way around. 

[GenJackRipper]

If you're going to doodle with coloured pens on a map, at least try a little harder to make it realistic.  

Like I said...

 

 

 

The track I pasted is a mashup of the best corners according to FIAWEC-fans. Looks great to me.

 

I didn't doodle anything, I simply found a great track and did the proper sizing.
 

https://instagram.co...by=gdriveracing

[NoSanityClause]

Yeah....no.

[hittheapex]

Starts off as a good idea when you mention the airport and mountains. Heck, some good racing has been had on circuits laid on the airport. But the houses and that highway make it impossible. In a day and age when people move to an area knowing a circuit is there and still try to get it closed down, I can't imagine people being displaced so one can be built. Unless they were compensated extremely handsomely, at which point it becomes less viable.

[Atreiu]

France already has a great F1 track, called Magny Cours.

Great as in rubbish.

[Risil]

I do miss it though.

[Atreiu]

I miss Paul Ricard and its1985 layout.
The current cars would look terrific on it.

[404KF2]

Interesting fantasy.  I drove on that bit of Autoroute in our TT-plated Peugeot RCZ last summer and a racetrack would definitely be more interesting!

[DarthWillie]

France already has a great F1 track, called Magny Cours.

Start of rant: France in all its wisdom has detonated nuclear bombs on the beautiful Mururoa, a heavenly atol in the pacific. To this day I don't understand why they did not use Magny Cours, the most horrible track ever invented /end of rant :-)

In all seriousness , France not having a gp has nothing to do with noise but only with money. A new track won't change that

[Tourgott]

[Ruusperi]

I'd glad to see Magny-Cours return at any time. Especially the first sector has just brilliant flow. And who knows how good racing we could see there, just like Hungaroring which seem to provide the most eventful race nowadays.

Talks about remoteness are nonsense. Like when F1 isn't picky about anything? Sure we could have 20 street circuits in the middle of city, but who wants that? Spa and Red Bull Ring are such beautiful circuits because their rural scenery is so relaxing. Paul Ricard, on the other, gives me headache with its painted tarmac. Hopefully F1 will never race there, at least in its current layout.

[Silverstone96]

Your basing your argument on noise....not really a problem now is it!

In all seriousness though I went to Magny Cours in 2001/2002 and can honestly say it was a great place to watch a Grand Prix, the nature of the layout means you can see more than at any other track, mixed with cheap tickets, a nice mix of European fans creating a great atmosphere and some top races I really do miss it.

F1 could and has done a lot worse than going back there

[noikeee]

Magny-Cours isn't a terrible circuit, it's got a decent flow, the problem is that with the regulations of the time it was very difficult to overtake. I suspect with DRS it'd throw good races.

[yasushi888]

 

Would the US authorities allow for this though? Obviously they would have to knock down quite a few buildings, but access would be good. Noise might be a problem though

[Tourgott]

Would the US authorities allow for this though? Obviously they would have to knock down quite a few buildings, but access would be good. Noise might be a problem though

 

Which noise?

[Currahee]

I like Magny Cours too.

 

I drove all the way from Scotland in 2007 and we all loved it.

 

We didn't mind it being in the middle of nowhere.

[JHSingo]

I'm another who likes Magny Cours. Never understood the bad rep it got, but then it was one of my better tracks on GP4.

 

As for the OP...yeah, crazy is the right word I think.

[HoldenRT]

So... your suggestion is to tear up some 500 houses and a highway in the middle of a city? That's gonna come cheap.

 

And then in true modern F1 style, abandon the track 2 years later and go to a new country. 

 

#cost cutting #greenF1

Edited by HoldenRT, 16 August 2015 - 13:03.

[HoldenRT]

Would the US authorities allow for this though? Obviously they would have to knock down quite a few buildings, but access would be good. Noise might be a problem though

 

I'm sure New Yorkers would happily greenlight tearing down their Central Park for a European motor race once a year.  Maybe bulldoze the Empire State Building while they are at it and erect a statue of Bernie.

[ardbeg]

I'm another who likes Magny Cours. Never understood the bad rep it got, but then it was one of my better tracks on GP4.

 

As for the OP...yeah, crazy is the right word I think.

Fun track to drive but hopeless if you need to overtake. It should be possible to pass other vehicles on a race track.

[Volcano70]

I like Mangy Cours, needs to come back.

I've always hated Ricard and I don't know why.

[BRG]

I didn't doodle anything, I simply found a great track and did the proper sizing.

As far as I can see, you drew a track then just dumped it at random on the map somewhere near an airport.  That's why it would need not one, not two but four river bridges, as well as making several hundred French famileis homeless, diverting a autoroute and demolishing most of an industrial estate, making the homeless unemployed as well.

 

Try again. This time, try harder.

 

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see me.

[hittheapex]

 

 1  

10 

 

see me.

 

*Shudder* you brought back some traumatic memories of one of my primary school teachers

[JHSingo]

Fun track to drive but hopeless if you need to overtake. It should be possible to pass other vehicles on a race track.

 

There's worse tracks on the calendar that are hopeless to overtake at, too.

 

I'd rather F1 return to Magny Cours rather than Paul Ricard if it was out of those two. Paul Ricard is the ultimate Tilkedrome these days, unfortunately.

[maximilian]

As far as I can see, you drew a track then just dumped it at random on the map somewhere near an airport.  That's why it would need not one, not two but four river bridges, as well as making several hundred French famileis homeless, diverting a autoroute and demolishing most of an industrial estate, making the homeless unemployed as well.

 

Try again. This time, try harder.

 

 1  

10 

 

see me.

 

What was the point for?

[ardbeg]

There's worse tracks on the calendar that are hopeless to overtake at, too.

The fact that there are worse tracks does not make M C  better.

[EightGear]

Is this thread real?


Magny Cours is fine though, some nice high speed corners.

Edited by EightGear, 16 August 2015 - 20:59.

[Hellenic tifosi]

Magny courts is a brilliant track, in which overtaking had become almost impossible due to the high speed corners and the ridiculous aero dependence of the cars.

However, withDRS it could turn into a great experience.

[Amphicar]

What was the point for?

Grade inflation - can't give anyone a zero score these days!

[BRG]

What was the point for?

 

Grade inflation - can't give anyone a zero score these days!

He spelt his name right.  And he only wrote on one side of the paper. 

[Peter Perfect]

Ach! What a disappointment. I thought from the thread title we were going to discuss the shoelaces.

[Seanspeed]

My proposed London GP:

[PayasYouRace]

Is this a French Grand Prix thread or is it just here to entertain the madness?

 

 

I didn't doodle anything, I simply found a great track and did the proper sizing.
 

https://instagram.co...by=gdriveracing

 

Yeah so you made it as impractical and expensive as possible, and worse than that, you put the Eau Rouge copy on a flat bit of land.

[SealTheDiffuser]

crazy like an accountant, awesome like one too.

[Kristian]

This circuit looks good on paper, but I had to   at its placement. And given Bernie's Europophobia of recent years, he wouldn't sanction two races next door to each other. 

 

Also the thing that gets me with track mashups is that the speeds into the corners are totally different from what makes them good in real life - and you need gradient too. If Eau Rouge did not have the hill, it would be a fairly boring kink. Putting that kind of gradient into a new track would cost $$$, which no European government or private company would ever pay. 

 

And on Magny Cours - its a great little circuit! The overtaking these days into Adelaide would be pretty good, and it has some really nice medium/fast corners and challenging chicanes. It was a worthy addition to the calendar. It was also a bit of a tyre killer, which spiced it up. 

[Frank Tuesday]

My proposed London GP:

 

I wonder how much runoff you'd need at the end of a 5.5km straight into a 180 degree, 350m radius turn? 

Edited by Frank Tuesday, 17 August 2015 - 17:58.

[Abranet]

I wonder how much runoff you'd need at the end of a 5.5km straight into a 180 degree, 350m radius turn? 

 It'll be fine, we'll just knock down a few hundred more houses.

[PayasYouRace]

I wonder how much runoff you'd need at the end of a 5.5km straight into a 180 degree, 350m radius turn? 

 

Ironically it would be less because the angle of the retaining wall would be shallower and could safely be placed closer to the track.

 

(If we're going to make a pretence of any seriousness in this thread)

[Tsarwash]

That area is ridiculously densely populated, and probably with damn expensive houses as well, it being the South of France and all.

[Seanspeed]

I wonder how much runoff you'd need at the end of a 5.5km straight into a 180 degree, 350m radius turn?

I don't know. But I call that the 'woah we're heading into East London, better turnaround' corner. Should be taken completely flat out.

[kamikaze1]

In all seriousness , France not having a gp has nothing to do with noise but only with money. A new track won't change that

 

 

It has everything to do with money as you said.  I'm really not trying to sound patronising here to anyone, honestly, but: 

 

France was pissed off with all these millionaires coming into the country, getting paid to be there, and not paying tax.  IIRC, France introduced a law that whoever came to France on a working capacity (mechanics, drivers etc) had to pay a fraction of their salary as Tax.   Ralf Schumacher was pretty vocal on this when it happened, and gave many interviews about it, and said that because he is a driver, and there are 17 races in the year, consisting of three days, that was the amount of work he was being paid for in the eyes of the French government and legislation.  So hypothetically, Ralf Schumacher was on 15 mill at the top of his career, and worked 51 days, earning $294,117 dollars per day, he had to pay France tax on $882,352 for three days work.  I have no idea what the tax rate is, but everyone that was at the track in a working capacity, had to pay tax to the French Government.  M. Schumacher must have been paying out a bucket to the French Revenue system. 

 

Do you really think drivers were happy about this, team managers had to pay, mechanics, etc... and it was quite obvious to most why Magny Cours was dropped, was because they probably wanted money off of Bernie too.   Anyone that was at Magny Cours for a couple of years since it was introduced had to pay this tax... until they got fed up of paying it  (two years I think)  

 

It really has everything to do with money.   France won't have another GP until some tax break or exemption comes in as regards this law. 

 

I agree with the France stance... look how much money Governments pay to have a GP in their country, a percentage that ends up in the pocket of Bernie and others.  So... lets find a way to get money back... tax everyone that is there in a working capacity. Genius if you ask me, and something every country should do.   

Edited by kamikaze1, 17 August 2015 - 20:11.

[Volcano70]

 

Seeing that there is an airport in Nice, why not have it there? (red is the main track/pit road, green are alt. layouts).

But how fans get there is another story 

Edited by Volcano70, 17 August 2015 - 20:48.