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Formula 5000 - happy days!


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#1 picblanc

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 15:27

Originally posted by picblanc
Here are a few F5000 photos from 1974.
Trevor Thwaites F5000 Lola T330.
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Keith Holland Lola?
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Tom Walkinshaw F5000 Modus, with John Nicholson showing interest.
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Brian Robinson ex F1 Maclaren M19C.
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All photos copyright Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.



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#2 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 15:36

Terrific! Anymore please...?

#3 picblanc

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 15:42

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
Terrific! Anymore please...?


Thanks Andrew, yes? got to find the negs though(working on it!)

#4 sterling49

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 15:43

Great photos! I can almost feel the atmosphere, simple times, a truck, a car, a caravan to sleep in and they were off, oh so different nowadays, and no better for it. The McClaren M19's a lovely car, don't know why he chose that awful colour though. :eek:
Brian Robinson had a lot of different cars, what was his background, does anybody know?
His Cortina was entered by A.G.Dean Racing and sometimes Byker Hill Garage, was that his business?

#5 picblanc

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 15:45

Originally posted by sterling49
Great photos! I can almost feel the atmosphere, simple times, a truck, a car, a caravan to sleep in and they were off, oh so different nowadays, and no better for it. The McClaren M19's a lovely car, don't know why he chose that awful colour though. :eek:
Brian Robinson had a lot of different cars, what was his background, does anybody know?
His Cortina was entered by A.G.Dean Racing and sometimes Byker Hill Garage, was that his business?


You can just make out Byker hill on the McClaren.

#6 sterling49

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 15:49

Originally posted by picblanc


You can just make out Byker hill on the McClaren.


:rotfl: Just got my specs....agreed!

#7 Twin Window

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 15:58

Graham, I think you will shortly be *Allen Browned*...!

(Don't worry; it's not painful!)

#8 MCS

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 16:23

Wonderful pictures Graham.

The Modus picture is fascinating. That's Val Musetti in the red overalls looking on I think.

The orange Lola is Brian McGuire's.

#9 Chris Bloom

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 17:10

Thank you for sharing your photographs Graham.

#10 David M. Kane

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 17:35

Why did some chose to go the V-6 route like Modus and the Thursday March? Did they get some sort of break on weight or engine size, etc.?

#11 Alan Cox

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 18:00

Great pictures of some great days, Graham.

I'm sure Simon Hadfield will be interested in the Modus pic:

http://forums.atlasf...odus walkinshaw

#12 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 18:08

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Why did some chose to go the V-6 route like Modus and the Thursday March? Did they get some sort of break on weight or engine size, etc.?


They could run race engines, twin cam heads, and they were lighter in the tail so should handle better...

I'm not sure if there was a weight limit difference. To my way of thinking it helped ruin the era.

#13 Simon Hadfield

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 18:25

Alan, I am - now please let him have walked round the back of the car.....(with his camera).....

#14 picblanc

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 18:31

Originally posted by Twin Window
Graham, I think you will shortly be *Allen Browned*...!

(Don't worry; it's not painful!)


Ooooh err Mrs!! here are a couple more, OKish pics memory stirrers really,(I always found cars harder than bikes to get right!! :| )
The Modus
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Martin Birrane Brabham
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Bob Evans Lola.
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All pictures copyright Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

#15 Simon Hadfield

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 18:47

It just gets better and better, what great shots and all the better for being of slightly different cars and drivers.

#16 picblanc

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 19:01

Originally posted by Simon Hadfield
It just gets better and better, what great shots and all the better for being of slightly different cars and drivers.

Thanks guys, Simon if only I had known 33years ago how important the Modus was I would of gone round the back!! :p

#17 Gav Astill

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 19:01

Fantastic stuff, many thanks for sharing them.

The Bobs Evans Lola with its huge red airbox is my ideal of what a proper '70's racing car should look like.

#18 f1steveuk

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 19:46

Originally posted by Gav Astill
Fantastic stuff, many thanks for sharing them.

The Bobs Evans Lola with its huge red airbox is my ideal of what a proper '70's racing car should look like.


I always liked the lines of the T330/332, but I loved those deep cord rear wings!

#19 picblanc

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 20:00

Originally posted by f1steveuk


I always liked the lines of the T330/332, but I loved those deep cord rear wings!


Does anyone remember the F5000 race the day before the race of champions 1975? the Tom Pryce win year? when Peter Gethin lost it coming out of Clearways in the piddling/torrential rain and smacked into the outside bank under the spectator stand opposite the pits/ I think he was in one of the then New Lola T332? the round pointed nose jobbies! it sticks in my mind as I could see his eyes open wide as he knew he had lost it, and when he hit the barrier/banking the thud caused all the rain drops to be shaken of the stand I was in, I think he went in the ambulance for a check up? any how here is a picture of it.
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Picture copyright Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

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#20 Allen Brown

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 21:18

Originally posted by Twin Window
Graham, I think you will shortly be *Allen Browned*...!

(Don't worry; it's not painful!)

picblanc, what he means is that some bloke called Allen Brown will pop up any time soon asking to use your photographs on OldRacingCars.com...

#21 Simon Hadfield

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 21:20

The point about the Modus is that it wasnt important but you still took the photos - fantastic! The Lola of Peter Gethin would have been a T400 I think. Not only would it be great to find any remains of the Modus but I would love to confirm (or otherwise) the urban myth about the BT43 wreck being pushed into the Thames!

#22 Simon Hadfield

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 21:21

Would that be a chip off the old block?.....

#23 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 21:37

Originally posted by picblanc
Does anyone remember the F5000 race the day before the race of champions 1975? the Tom Pryce win year? when Peter Gethin lost it coming out of Clearways in the piddling/torrential rain and smacked into the outside bank under the spectator stand opposite the pits/ I think he was in one of the then New Lola T332? the round pointed nose jobbies! .....


You mean a Lola T400?

Great word picture, by the way!

#24 Twin Window

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 23:09

A couple of my BT43 pics while we're on the subject; Mallory 1974 (Craft, DNS I think), and 1975 Race of Champions meeting after Lunger shunted it on the parade lap (IIRC)...

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Is it me, or did we discuss the BT43 not that long ago?! :confused:

#25 Bonde

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 23:38

No worries, mate - we did: http://forums.autosp...ighlight=thames

#26 David M. Kane

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 00:11

I agree with everything Simon says about the Modus. Having said I wonder how it would have gone if someone had thrown a little development money at it in the day. To me it just looks right, small, nibble looking even well balance; granted that is just based off the photos.

Ray could you expand on your thought about the engine situation; because here in the States F5000 lost interest and we did have anything but Detroit iron. If I'm wrong fail free to slap me around a bit. :)

#27 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 00:38

David, if memory serves me right, FA originally was for 3-litre racing engines or 5-litre stockblock...

Very few took the 3-litre option. I think it probably closed off when F5000 took off in England and Australia/New Zealand... and Europe...

In the Tasman we initially had a 2.5-litre racing engine option to cater for existing cars and destroked F1 cars that had been coming out here... in Australia specifically we had a 2.0-litre race engine option because some had wanted to go that way instead of F5000 and we let them fight it out. F5000 won.

In England, maybe Europe, as F5000 started to wane somebody looked at the 3.5 quad cam Ford engine being used in the Capris in touring car racing and decided that would spark things along. They did quite well, as I recall, probably because of the reduced weight in the back of the car as much as anything.

When F5000 eventually started to slip in the US, the thought was that US racegoers were more attuned to sporty cars, so they clothed them with full bodywork and retained central seating and it was the Can-Am all over again... sort of.

The Tasman Cup had ended in 1975 and New Zealand and Australia had separate 4-race series of their own, initially for F5000. New Zealand then went for FAtlantic and any hope of F5000 remaining viable in Australia was doomed. FPacific (FAtlantic with some very minor rule changes) was born and attempts to keep F5000 alive were hopeless.

#28 cosworth bdg

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 00:48

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Why did some chose to go the V-6 route like Modus and the Thursday March? Did they get some sort of break on weight or engine size, etc.?

The Cossy GAA V6 was a real engine, there was no weight penalty as the formula had a minimum weight irrespective of engine configuration .

#29 cosworth bdg

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 00:57

Originally posted by Ray Bell
David, if memory serves me right, FA originally was for 3-litre racing engines or 5-litre stockblock...

Very few took the 3-litre option. I think it probably closed off when F5000 took off in England and Australia/New Zealand... and Europe...

In the Tasman we initially had a 2.5-litre racing engine option to cater for existing cars and destroked F1 cars that had been coming out here... in Australia specifically we had a 2.0-litre race engine option because some had wanted to go that way instead of F5000 and we let them fight it out. F5000 won.

In England, maybe Europe, as F5000 started to wane somebody looked at the 3.5 quad cam Ford engine being used in the Capris in touring car racing and decided that would spark things along. They did quite well, as I recall, probably because of the reduced weight in the back of the car as much as anything.

When F5000 eventually started to slip in the US, the thought was that US racegoers were more attuned to sporty cars, so they clothed them with full bodywork and retained central seating and it was the Can-Am all over again... sort of.

The Tasman Cup had ended in 1975 and New Zealand and Australia had separate 4-race series of their own, initially for F5000. New Zealand then went for FAtlantic and any hope of F5000 remaining viable in Australia was doomed. FPacific (FAtlantic with some very minor rule changes) was born and attempts to keep F5000 alive were hopeless.

Ray, i sugest you have very good look at the early F 5000 rules...

#30 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 01:07

Which ones, Peter? There were so many different sets...

For instance, the US didn't allow fuel injection, the Poms did (or is that the other way around?).

I think you'll find that what I've written is pretty much correct. If there's something specific about which you think I've got it wrong, just let me know.

#31 cosworth bdg

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 01:17

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Which ones, Peter? There were so many different sets...

For instance, the US didn't allow fuel injection, the Poms did (or is that the other way around?).

I think you'll find that what I've written is pretty much correct. If there's something specific about which you think I've got it wrong, just let me know.

Ray, the rules i am refering to are the English ,European & Aussie/NZ Tasman rules, not the US versions.........

#32 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 01:34

So where did I go wrong, Peter?

We definitely had 2-litre racing engines or 5-litre stockblock (which had to be V8, by the way) for the Gold Star, 2.5-litre racing engines or 5-litre stockblock for the Tasman. Stock heads too, initially, but I'm only talking about how it began here.

#33 cosworth bdg

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 01:51

Originally posted by Ray Bell
So where did I go wrong, Peter?

We definitely had 2-litre racing engines or 5-litre stockblock (which had to be V8, by the way) for the Gold Star, 2.5-litre racing engines or 5-litre stockblock for the Tasman. Stock heads too, initially, but I'm only talking about how it began here.

Ray, may be i should have a course of HUMBLE 'pie', regards ,Peter N

#34 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 02:32

Originally posted by cosworth bdg
Ray, maybe I should have a course of 'HUMBLE pie'


We all make mistakes, Peter...

I'm pretty good at it.

#35 cosworth bdg

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 03:54

Ray, at least we both admit it ,Regards Peter N.......

#36 picblanc

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 07:25

Originally posted by Simon Hadfield
The point about the Modus is that it wasnt important but you still took the photos - fantastic! The Lola of Peter Gethin would have been a T400 I think. Not only would it be great to find any remains of the Modus but I would love to confirm (or otherwise) the urban myth about the BT43 wreck being pushed into the Thames!


Yes thanks Simon it was the T400, my brain cells have now formed an orderly queue :)

#37 BT 35-8

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 07:56

Simon,

Interesting that the Modus F5000 seems to have the dry sump tank at the rear off the gearbox instead of behind the driver as per F3/FAtlantic , also side pods are different , also rear wing mount doesn't seem to be the two alloy plates , cockpit bodywork is also different in that no integral head rest section.

The BT43 Brabham is the only F5000 I really liked , and went searching about 20 years ago , the story came from the last owner/ lessor , Kevin Bartlett that the car went back to the U.K. after the lease had expired , however no-one would claim car or pay duties , certainly I have never had a sniff of the car still being over here now , how are you at scuba diving??

Bryan Miller.

#38 Allen Brown

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 08:43

Originally posted by Simon Hadfield
I would love to confirm (or otherwise) the urban myth about the BT43 wreck being pushed into the Thames!

Simon

As Ray says, I believe KB has confirmed that story.

Allen

#39 Bonde

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 08:51

I agree with Dave that off-hand the Modus looked just right - compact and nimble. Shame that no more came of it.

The BT43 also looked compact and nimble, and apart from that 'horrible airbox (IMO) it appeared a typically neat and homogeneous Geoff Ferris design.

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#40 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 08:56

(As Ray was about to say, Allen...)

Yes, KB said it finished up on the bottom of the Thames...

And yes, it was a great little car.

#41 picblanc

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 09:14

A couple more from August bank holiday 1974
Nick Wattiez, John Stevens(MacClaren M18?) Pat Sumner, and Trevor Thwaites, dont know who the hidden car/driver is?
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According to Patrick Sumner, he says hidden driver is Brian Robinson, with Brendan McInerny in the Twaites car.

Vern Schuppan, and Bob Evans.
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All pictures copyright Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.


Stuart nice pics, what scanner do you have and do you scan the neg or original photo?
Cheers,
Graham.

Edited by picblanc, 24 February 2011 - 21:22.


#42 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 11:28

Originally posted by picblanc
A couple more from August bank holiday 1974
Nick Wattiez, John Stevens(MacClaren M18?) Pat Sumner, and Trevor Thwaites, dont know who the hidden car/driver is?


From the airbox it looks like Brian Robinson's M19 McLaren perhaps? Here's the car at Silverstone in 74, but who's in the Lola thats following?

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#43 Twin Window

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 12:24

Originally posted by picblanc

...Pat Sumner...

TNF member :up:

Stuart nice pics, what scanner do you have and do you scan the neg or original photo?

I've got an Epson Perfection 2400 Photo and virtually all my old pics are scanned from trannies.

The Kodak Instamatic was such a basic tool (the single adjustable function was cloud or sun - and even that made no difference!) so it's hard to imrove the pics past a certain point, but the images nevertheless bring back some great memories.

I've got quite a number of F5000 pics from 1972-1974, many of which have been scattered through the 'personal photos from the paddock' thread.

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks

...but who's in the Lola thats following?

Following Robinson in your pic? That's Trevor Twaites isn't it? Same car as in the other pic and also the first pic in this thread. Looks like it's got a Chevron airbox fitted.

#44 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 12:37

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks


From the airbox it looks like Brian Robinson's M19 McLaren perhaps? Here's the car at Silverstone in 74, but who's in the Lola thats following?


Trevor Thwaites?

#45 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 12:39

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks


From the airbox it looks like Brian Robinson's M19 McLaren perhaps? Here's the car at Silverstone in 74, but who's in the Lola thats following?


Or possibly Eddie Keizan? Did he have Lucky Strike colours - note crash helmet colour.

#46 MCS

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 12:40

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
From the airbox it looks like Brian Robinson's M19 McLaren perhaps? Here's the car at Silverstone in 74, but who's in the Lola thats following?


I reckon it's Trevor Twaites. Having said that, would that make it Brendan McInerney in the picture at the top? Twaites and McInerney shared the Lola for at least part of the season.

(And by that, I mean the last car in the picture - the hidden car is Robinson).

#47 ian senior

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 12:43

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson


Trevor Thwaites?


Hate to nit-pick, but isn't it Twaites (no "H")?

Yours sincerely,

Mr Logic.

#48 Mallory Dan

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 13:21

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson


Or possibly Eddie Keizan? Did he have Lucky Strike colours - note crash helmet colour.


Don't think so Andrew, didn't Keizan do a couple of races only in the Edwards/Embassy Lola after Guy broke his wrist. I suspect he came up with the £££s for the drive, rather than being 'specially selected' for it !

#49 David M. Kane

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 13:35

Yes, that BT-43 box is ugly. Look how softly some of things were sprung, lots of body roll.

#50 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 13:36

Originally posted by ian senior


Hate to nit-pick, but isn't it Twaites (no "H")?

Yours sincerely,

Mr Logic.


Ah yes, hit the 'h' by mistake :drunk: