1423 replies to this topic

[E1pix]

For those like me who choose to never forget F5000 but can't find good period video, here's this gem:
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=P8yGXAIgYr0

[Allen Brown]

Perry Krinitt for sure.  He's been in the news recently because of his son's death.

 

The misspellings on my site will be because I faithfully followed an entry list.

[arttidesco]

Thanx for the link E1Pix and confirmation Allen

[Ray Bell]

That was a dreadful race...

Only two of the finishers were on the same lap. Or was it only two were just one lap apart?

At the side on You Tube there was a link to the 1969 Australian Grand Prix, I watched that. It was the full race, but fairly amateurishly televised by the ABC.

[E1pix]

I think McRae was really thinking in using his clear cowl section, likely inspired by those blue F1 cars that had too many wheels.

Edit: I'll be watching that '69 race, Ray!

Edited by E1pix, 16 October 2015 - 20:36.

[john aston]

Enjoyed 5 minutes of the video just now and it really does make me despair that we now have no modern single seater racing to speak of in the UK . I have yet to see F4 but Ecboost Formula Ford  was just terrible. The magic formula which F5000 had was more power than grip , great looking cars and thunderous noise. A recent Formula Renault would lap quicker than a T330 or whatever , but when a Lola was approaching your legs would step back involuntarily from the trackside. F3 was the last decent  formula racing series we had and although not especially powerful the cars were little jewels . A tragedy that a series which used to be the third or foruth most important in the world descended into parody  and held half its races abroad. Happy days when I could see F3  at Croft , Rufforth , Oulton , Brands etc , and latterly at Donington

[RonPohl]

How about reviving F5000 with something like this: a spec carbon fiber chassis ( say like an Indy lites) with the ARCA ilmor engine. 700 hp, 500 foot pounds, purchase price ( not lease) $35,000. 1500 miles between rebuilds.

[E1pix]

YES!

[opplock]

As Ray says a dreadful race. The first time I've seen it and although it was good to see Cassius win it summed up all the bad things about F5000. The cars did (and still do) look and sound spectacular. The racing however was often dire largely due to abysmal reliability. In that race the 1st four finishers were all 2 laps apart. As F5000 had died everywhere else most of the competing cars were 5 years old or more.

 

Do watch the 1969 AGP. I have fond memories of the high winged Lotus 49s and the Brabham biplane. More so of the Ferraris. The highlight is about 11 minutes in. Neil Allen spins and the resulting yellow flag is initially waved by a young woman wearing a mini skirt and knee high boots. After about 20 seconds someone grabs the flag and runs to the correct side of the car. Mini skirts were unconventional attire for marshals even in those days.  

Edited by opplock, 17 October 2015 - 18:21.

[Lee Nicolle]

I have seen that footage before. Yes it was a terrible race, Garrie, Alan and KB all with their big crashes. Yet alone the other shunts too. 

Is it me or did the cars sound better then,,, I have seen them recently and with more power they dont sound as strong. As they do in that clip.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 18 October 2015 - 07:42.

[E1pix]

I've noticed the same at vintage races up/over here.

I think they sounded better then because they were driven same.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
I have seen that footage before. Yes it was a terrible race, Garrie, Alan and KB all with their big crashes. Let alone the other shunts too.....

The big crashes at this meeting didn't include KB, his was the following year...

But they did include the 250/275LM, I'm pretty sure, in the same spot Alan Hamilton went in.

[arttidesco]

I was wondering if the GM2 had silencers on it looked like it, over here they all do now :-(

[E1pix]

On toning down a race motor, they might as well poke us in the eye.

"Silencers." Blasphemes!

[JacnGille]

The '75 F5000 race in the rain at Road Atlanta is one of my all time favorite races.

[E1pix]

Sad you didn't get to see BJ Swanson run.

That guy would have been our next Mario...

Edited by E1pix, 19 October 2015 - 05:59.

[john aston]

Just thinking about that noise , I don't think anything compared to the sheer brutal intensity of an  F5000 race at Mallory Park- 40 odd second laps and no respite at all. Even the NASCAR race I attended a couple of years ago wasn't quite as overwhelming - and we didn't even get a fight in the pit lane ..  

[Ray Bell]

"Silencers" were mandatory at Sandown Park from very early on, perhaps from the inception of the circuit...

Mostly the visiting top-liners fitted things like beer cans clamped around the tailpipes (I should be able to dig up a photo somewhere) but by the mid-seventies mufflers of a set standard were required on all circuit around Australia.

[B Squared]

Sad you didn't get to see BJ Swanson run.

That guy would have been our next Mario...

Gordon Kirby compared him to Mark Donohue also. B.J. is from my hometown and buried within a mile of my home. His family's plot is next to the plot of my cigar store-owning friends (since 1874) family. I visited B.J.'s grave about a month ago and made sure it was clean and edged.  

[E1pix]

I'd love to join you to do that sometime, Brian. Maybe around the 500.

Then, on to the cigar store... :-)

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
The big crashes at this meeting didn't include KB, his was the following year...

Just to correct myself here, or give further information I should say, Vern Schuppan was another to crash in this race.

Originally posted by arttidesco
I was wondering if the GM2 had silencers on it looked like it, over here they all do now

A photo of McRae spinning out of Dandenong Road Corner in that race (page 423, Official 50-race history of the Australian Grand Prix book) clearly shows a pair of decent-sized mufflers on his tailpipes.

[Lee Nicolle]

"Silencers" were mandatory at Sandown Park from very early on, perhaps from the inception of the circuit...

Mostly the visiting top-liners fitted things like beer cans clamped around the tailpipes (I should be able to dig up a photo somewhere) but by the mid-seventies mufflers of a set standard were required on all circuit around Australia.

Sandown because of its proximity to housing will always be a problem with noise. Worse that great stand causes the noise to echo and increase. Though a 9am start with cloud cover will always have cars noisier than 1pm  and a clear sky. Been there don that!

 

My comment above though is that those cars sounded better [probably noisier] in that clip than they do now with a 100hp more in some cases.They defenitly were all fitted with some sort of muffler, ones that do appear real. Not cans!

[group7]

In 1971 Chaparral mechanics, including Troy Rogers and Franz Weis, ran a car based on a aborted Indy project, from Chevrolet R&D and Chaparral,  in two Formula A/5000 races in America. pictures of this machine are rare. there are a some out there, a couple from Vintage Motor Sport, May/June 1994 "Chaparral story" by Pete Lyons ,I believe he sourced those from Troy Rogers (sadly no longer with us) one I have from Car & Driver magazine November 1971, I've not seen anywhere, I posted it on "Autodiva" out of France, in the Chaparral thread.  but can't post here. long story, short, I would like to build a 1/43 scale model of it, does anyone know of any photos from the rear of the car ? need them for reference.

 

Mike (group7)

Edited by group7, 21 November 2015 - 03:54.

[2F-001]

There are half a dozen or more pics of it floating around online; there may be more, but I guess one problem searching is knowing what they might be labelled as - as nobody's too sure what to call the car!

 

I think I have something - somewhere - showing the rear; my gut feeling is that it was in a mag such as Car & Driver, but if I'd got that right you would probably have seen it already...

 

I try to have a look for it after the weekend. 

[E1pix]

This car, right?:
http://www.oldracing...5000/chaparral/

Gotta get up pretty early to do anything racing that our own Allen Brown hasn't already covered.

[group7]

E1pix, thats the one ! thanks for posting that link so people know what I'm on about. that F/A Chaparral was a neat looking car.

 

Mike (group7)

[GreenMachine]

Neat? Not my choice of adjective for that car ...

[Bob Riebe]

E1pix, thats the one ! thanks for posting that link so people know what I'm on about. that F/A Chaparral was a neat looking car.

 

Mike (group7)

I saw it run at Donnybrooke back when I was young and ignorant expecting Chaparral to stomp on the opponents,

It was the beginning of me facing reality and no longer have idols.

[E1pix]

E1pix, thats the one ! thanks for posting that link so people know what I'm on about. that F/A Chaparral was a neat looking car.

Mike (group7)

It is a really cool design for its time, kind of a cross between a Granatelli Hawke and a rock climbing shoe (Edit to clarify, those are both really good things).

One does wonder how many motor builds went by with him wanting to go back out.

Edited by E1pix, 23 November 2015 - 06:55.

[E1pix]

I saw it run at Donnybrooke back when I was young and ignorant expecting Chaparral to stomp on the opponents,
It was the beginning of me facing reality and no longer have idols.

Even Big Jim can't win 'em all. Still a worthy idol for me, though.

[Lee Nicolle]

5000s, they ran in NZ last weekend. Does anyone have any results or write ups? 

Via Speedcafe , well Mike Jacobson  evidently Kenny won yet again.

[timbo]

Results for NZ motorsport can normally be found on www.mylaps.com. Its just a matter of clicking the type of event and country, and away you go.

 

The Scope Classic was the last race that had results for F5000. Results for the meeting can be found on this link. http://www.mylaps.co.../events/1233815

 

 

P.S. 29 F5000's entered for the Phillip Island Classic in March, with at least a dozen cars from N.Z.

Edited by timbo, 15 February 2016 - 11:17.

[Patrick Fletcher]

Not hard to find Lee, not happy to post reports and photos as you will copy them over and it becomes a bore to have to go through to get to a fresh post.

[RoyScorer]

http://hubgarage.s3....-F5000-emai.jpg

 

A drawing I produced last year.

[Charlieman]

Three years ago I followed the NZ F5000 series. At every race, they had a cracking good grid. It was much better (for loud V8s) than anything in the UK.

 

A commentator said the right thing. When F5000 was contemporary, you'd never see so many and so different cars on the grid.

[JacnGille]

http://hubgarage.s3....-F5000-emai.jpg

 

A drawing I produced last year.

[E1pix]

http://hubgarage.s3....-F5000-emai.jpg
 
A drawing I produced last year.

Fantastic art, Roy, Thanks for showing us!

[GMACKIE]

Welcome back to 'civilization'?, Eric.

[E1pix]

Thanks.

And since tomorrow sees our arrival in Death Valley, your use of quote marks is quite good, Sir. :-)

[SJ Lambert]

I only ever saw 5000s at AIR and on TV. Yes they often had little depth, especially here in SA but were also at times very exciting too watch if you had a dice going.
Rays pic of Gossy backing it in to the corner while unusual still typifies the agression needed to make those things so fast. Goss was probably more flamboyant than most but the car in front was also 'loose' off the corner
We do not see much of that now as historics, a little frustrating really as the owners are a bit more circumspect.And I doubt the tyres being used would tolerate that as much. James Davison at PI was the most agressive but things still broke as they did in the day!

And I once attended a circuit sprint at AIR. One car at a time and the fastest and the car that was watched the most. Colin Trengrove in his Lola 5000!

What type and configuration was Colin's Lola? Don't suppose it's continued on in Oz?

Any period shots of it out there?

[Lee Nicolle]

What type and configuration was Colin's Lola? Don't suppose it's continued on in Oz?

Any period shots of it out there?

Ooops!  That was a T330/332 and was the car he was killed in in private practice at AIR.

[ellrosso]

Couple of pics of Col back in the day(both 1979 I'd say too-wrong caption). Lola T330 and not to sure what became of it after his accident. 

Edited by ellrosso, 14 March 2016 - 05:27.

[E1pix]

Fantastic, L, Thanks for posting these!

[Tim Murray]

The Trengove car was T330 chassis HU7. It was destroyed in the accident, although some remains do apparently still exist. Check out the history of HU7 on the Lola T330 page at ORC:

http://www.oldracing....com/lola/t330/

[E1pix]

Whooped up by the Parrot yet again! ;-) (I must work on this)

Still working on making HU9 talk, Tim.

[SJ Lambert]

I was talking to Tania Langsford down in Siberia on Saturday arvo' - she was most impressed with the quality of F5000 cars circulating, she's also enjoyed seeing Peter Brennan rebuilding the Lella Lombardi Lola in recent times. 

[group7]

here are a few newly found, colour, photos, and history  of the Chaparral F 5000 effort in 1971, from the Old Racing Cars site, by Allen Brown. link also put up here earlier by E1pix, in response to my queries about this effort. images of this car are rare !   click the photos to enlarge.

 

http://www.oldracing...5000/chaparral/

 

 

Mike (group7)

Edited by group7, 16 March 2016 - 21:13.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by SJ Lambert
I was talking to Tania Langsford down in Siberia on Saturday arvo' - she was most impressed with the quality of F5000 cars circulating, she's also enjoyed seeing Peter Brennan rebuilding the Lella Lombardi Lola in recent times.

From F5000 Thunder, the Titans of Road Racing 1970-1982:



Tania got a nice surprise to know someone had taken this pic of her steering her husband's car into the pits at Sandown. She had written a great story about Colin for the book, entitled "My Greatest Loss", and when the photos were chosen this was a gem.

[2F-001]

Regarding the "Chaparral" F5000 car:

 

There are a couple of other pictures, not on Allen's site, in Van Valkenburgh's 'Chevrolet Racing…?', (but nothing of the rear end - and I still haven't found the ones I thought I had).

 

In that book, the author points out - as you did earlier, Mike - that the car started out as a Chevrolet R&D exercise (rather like the 2J) for USAC, project name GS III, and the chassis was inherited by Chaparral when R&D abandoned it.

Edited by 2F-001, 17 March 2016 - 08:40.

[E1pix]

From F5000 Thunder, the Titans of Road Racing 1970-1982:Tania got a nice surprise to know someone had taken this pic of her steering her husband's car into the pits at Sandown. She had written a great story about Colin for the book, entitled "My Greatest Loss", and when the photos were chosen this was a gem.

Great bit of history, Ray!