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#1 AFCA

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 10:35

The last ten years in figures (not considering the WMSC decisions).

Pts = points, PP = pole position, FL = fastest laps:

1999
Ferrari: Pts 128 - 1st 6 - 2nd 6 - 3rd 5 - PP 3 - FL 6
McLaren-Mercedes: Pts 124 - 1st 7 - 2nd 6 - 3rd 3 - PP 11 - FL 9
Jordan-Mugen: Pts 61 - 1st 2 - 2nd 1 - 3rd 3 - PP 1 - FL 0

2000
Ferrari: Pts 170 - 1st 10 - 2nd 6 - 3rd 5 - PP 10 - FL 5
McLaren-Mercedes: Pts 152 - 1st 7 - 2nd 10 - 3rd 5 - PP 7 - FL 12
Williams-BMW: Pts 36 - 1st 0 - 2nd 0 - 3rd 3 - PP 0 - FL 0

2001
Ferrari: Pts 179 - 1st 9 - 2nd 10 - 3rd 5 - PP 11 - FL 3
McLaren-Mercedes: Pts 102 - 1st 4 - 2nd 3 - 3rd 6 - PP 2 - FL 6
Williams-BMW: Pts 80 - 1st 4 - 2nd 4 - 3rd 1 - PP 4 - FL 8

2002
Ferrari: Pts 221 - 1st 15 - 2nd 19 - 3rd 2 - PP 10 - FL 12
Williams-BMW: Pts 92 - 1st 1 - 2nd 5 - 3rd 7 - PP 7 - FL 3
McLaren-Mercedes: Pts 65 - 1st 1 - 2nd 2 - 3rd 7 - PP 0 - FL 2

2003
Ferrari: Pts 158 - 1st 8 - 2nd 1 - 3rd 7 - PP 8 - FL 8
Williams-BMW: Pts 144 - 1st 4 - 2nd 6 - 3rd 2 - PP 4 - FL 4
McLaren-Mercedes: Pts 142 - 1st 2 - 2nd 8 - 3rd 3 - PP 2 - FL 3

2004
Ferrari: Pts 262 - 1st 15 - 2nd 9 - 3rd 5 - PP 12 - FL 14
BAR-Honda: Pts 119 - 1st 0 - 2nd 4 - 3rd 7 - PP 1 - FL 0
Renault: Pts 105 - 1st 1 - 2nd 1 - 3rd 4 - PP 3 -FL 0

2005
Renault: Pts 191 - 1st 8 - 2nd 6 - 3rd 4 - PP 7 - FL 3
McLaren-Mercedes: Pts 182 - 1st 10 - 2nd 4 - 3rd 4 - PP 7 - FL 12
Ferrari: Pts 100 - 1st 1 - 2nd 5 - 3rd 3 - PP 1 - FL 3

2006
Renault: Pts 206 - 1st 8 - 2nd 7 - 3rd 4 - PP 7 - FL 5
Ferrari: Pts 201 - 1st 9 - 2nd 7 - 3rd 3 - PP 7 - FL 9
McLaren-Mercedes: Pts 110 - 1st 0 - 2nd 4 - 3rd 5 - PP 3 - FL 3

2007
Ferrari: Pts 204 - 1st 9 -2nd 6 - 3rd 7 - PP 9 - FL 12
McLaren-Mercedes: Pts 203 - 1st 8 - 2nd 9 - 3rd 7 - PP 8 - FL 5
BMW Sauber: Pts 101 - 1st 0 - 2nd 1 - 3rd 1 - PP 0 - FL 0

2008
Ferrari: Pts 172 - 1st 8 - 2nd 4 - 3rd 7 - PP 8 - FL 13
McLaren-Mercedes: Pts 151 - 1st 6 - 2nd 3 - 3rd 4 - PP 8 - FL 3
BMW Sauber: Pts 135 - 1st 1 - 2nd 7 - 3rd 3 - PP 1 - FL 2

So Ferrari has collected the constructors title eight times in ten years time...

Posted Image

...Let's hope the F2009 will allow the team to extend this record even further.

Ferrari has made a lot of progress on next year's car already and I'm certain the chassis is already being build now. So far the major struggle appears to be KERS, hopefully the second version of the system is going to work in December.

This is kind of what to expect next year, radically different as we can see...

Posted Image

As far as I'm aware the car is to be launched somewhere around the 7th of January.

I'll try to keep you up to date.

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#2 z2z

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 10:38

Finally, ... here we go :clap:

#3 AMUSE

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 10:51

:clap: :clap:

#4 kar

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 10:52

Forza Ferrari :love: :clap: :clap: :clap:

#5 F.M.

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 10:55

Here's to a strong and good looking (;)) car for 2009!


Oh and AFCA, McLaren scored 0 constructer points in 2007

#6 tahadar

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 10:57

AFCA, where did that pic come from? it is interesting to not the fact that the second front wing element only starts a certain distance away from the nosecone. i have heard 'people' mention this will be the case for another team as well. i wasnt aware of anything in the rules about this.

#7 antrock

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 11:08

i believe the new rules are enforcing a standard middle part of the front wing for all teams.

#8 AFCA

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 11:10

Originally posted by F.M.
Oh and AFCA, McLaren scored 0 constructer points in 2007


Originally posted by AFCA
(not considering the WMSC decisions)


Originally posted by tahadar
AFCA, where did that pic come from?


I scanned it in from Gazzetta the other day...

#9 JazH

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 11:11

I'm concerned that the KERS issues will spillover into the early season.

Heck, I don't remember a time when Ferrari's chief engineer(?) publicaly downplayed prospects so early.

#10 Flexa

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 11:14

maybe it's possible that pessimist talking about KERS or f2009 car is just a company strategy, i mean it would be alot strange they "hei guys look, we're imba for 2009 Haha" that kind of game happens usually between big worldwide companies so i wouldn't be surprised if it's just the same here, it's a form to not incentivate rivals to go into trying to find more and develop even more because are afraid of other's level... we will see. However i'm optimistic for this car

and our drivers are pretty good, great :D

#11 Ogami musashi

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 11:24

Originally posted by antrock
i believe the new rules are enforcing a standard middle part of the front wing for all teams.


That's it. the free part of the front wing starts 25cm away from the center of the nose (on each side).
The standard part is neutral (even lifting).

#12 fiaza

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 11:53

The F2009 will be stunning, really looking forward to it. :)

#13 Lazy Prodigy

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 14:36

The scan does some justice to how many tidbits of winglets were on the car. Im glad they will be gone and hopefully for the better.

#14 F1Champion

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 17:33

There should be zero reliability issues in 2009. Ferrari must reclaim their former label of most reliable in F1. It cost us in 2006, nearly cost us in 2007 and definately cost us in 2008, 2009 MUST NOT follow this.

I worry about the F2009's performance. The winglets and aero efficiency gave the F2008 its speed. Removing all the bodwork will make all the cars remarkably similar and the aero advantage that Ferrari had will have evaporated. Its up to Costa, Tombasis, Iley and Co to design a corker of a car.

PS, Is KERS still on the cards or have the FOMA(?) ruled it out for 2009? If it stays then Ferrari must go down the route that Michael always wanted...reliability first and performance second. I won't care if the KERS is inferior to the opposition, so long as its reliable.

Also, regarding the front wing. Can't Ferrari keeps the bridge wing? Technically its not a winglet but rather another section of the front wing.

#15 Enzoluis

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 17:46

AFCA you are missing a detail not insignificant onr second and one third. In ten years, no one year without victories. That means we have been a front line team all the 10 years. Our rivals have made two three years and rest for at least one year and then come back. We have been always there.

#16 kal-el

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 17:54

my understanding is that kers will particularly be useful for overtaking right?for the sudden burst of speed like Nitrous boost. As long as Ferrari can build a car that doesn't need to overtake, (always at front), it shouldn't matter much right?

#17 kal-el

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 17:55

Originally posted by Enzoluis
AFCA you are missing a detail not insignificant onr second and one third. In ten years, no one year without victories. That means we have been a front line team all the 10 years. Our rivals have made two three years and rest for at least one year and then come back. We have been always there.


2005 does not count. Still, 9 years with victory is huge.

#18 AFCA

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 18:02

Originally posted by F1Champion
PS, Is KERS still on the cards or have the FOMA(?)

Also, regarding the front wing. Can't Ferrari keeps the bridge wing? Technically its not a winglet but rather another section of the front wing.


BMW Sauber made the FOTA decide not to postpone KERS, so it'll be there in 2009.

Bridge wings won't be allowed next year.

Originally posted by kal-el
As long as Ferrari can build a car that doesn't need to overtake, (always at front), it shouldn't matter much right?


Nice theory ;)

#19 quasi C

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 18:45

A bit of a recap on the story so far for the F2009:

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/65589 - car in wind tunnel since January 08. "early" debut.
http://www.autosport...to.php/id/98357 - Schumacher tests no winglets and slicks in april.
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/66998 - SD talks a bit about KERS.
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/69900 - August. production on components underway, gearbox + chassis. don't need to shift focus away from 2008.

I expect that in november and december they will just test a 2008 mule with simulated 09 downforce levels and perhaps the movable front flap. They've hinted KERS won't be on the car until 2009 so I guess the tests will revolve around understanding the new slick tye in combination with 09 aero. Set-up etc.

Car will probably be tested at Fiorano on the first available slot they are allowed, I think it's the 7th.

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#20 ATM_Andy

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 19:28

Originally posted by quasi C
I expect that in november and december they will just test a 2008 mule with simulated 09 downforce levels and perhaps the movable front flap.


The adjustable FWA is possibly more exciting, and and area of greater gain, then KERS as it happens. The new rear diffuser solution, and integration, will be critical and an area that could cause big differentials with the teams.

#21 whatto999

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 19:32

Originally posted by ATM_Andy


The adjustable FWA is possibly more exciting, and and area of greater gain, then KERS as it happens.


Andy, is there any special challenge for teams about moveable front wing flaps?

#22 equality

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 19:36

The first couple of races arent exactly power tracks so the late start of KERS shouldnt be such a big problem.

I only hope luca di montezemolo can somehow manage to let massa, vettel and alonso drive for ferrari in 2009.

#23 Anomander

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 19:38

Originally posted by antrock
i believe the new rules are enforcing a standard middle part of the front wing for all teams.



That sounds a pretty bad ruling, FIA are tighting things up too much, banning winglets I can understand but getting rid of the bridge wings and standard nows is just bad.

#24 quasi C

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 19:43

The adjustable FWA is possibly more exciting, and and area of greater gain, then KERS as it happens. The new rear diffuser solution, and integration, will be critical and an area that could cause big differentials with the teams.

Very interesting stuff. I thought the diffuser regs were quite limiting but obviously not. Williams have already revealed an early version of theirs, interestingly without a central tunnel, is that still in the regs? It looked awesome regardless.

Teams might use the flaps more as flow conditioners to the rear of the car or in conjunction with the endplates/tyres than just for creating outright downforce at the front. can't wait to see the innovations.

#25 ATM_Andy

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 19:47

Originally posted by whatto999


Andy, is there any special challenge for teams about moveable front wing flaps?


Oh yes several:-

Keeping it light, too much weight forwards of the front axle is not ideal as it promotes some nasty under-steer. Managing the efficiency and stability buy-off of the wing.

Where to mount the dynamics, do you stick it in the FWEP, into a faring mid way over the airfoil, the teams nood to find the best ballance.

The teams need to consider how it affects the downstream parts of the car, this is critical, you don't want to stall the rear wing, floor, diffuser etc at the wrong moment. You don't want it to ruin your cooling solution. How does the variance affects the dynamics of the tyres, the list really goes on and on.

#26 whatto999

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 19:54

Always when i think some component on the car isn't too complicated - i discover it's far beyond word 'complicated'. :p

#27 F1Champion

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 19:55

Does that means when the drivers engage KERS they'll probably also engage the front flaps to reduce drag down the straight to aid straight line speed?

#28 ATM_Andy

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 19:59

Originally posted by F1Champion
Does that means when the drivers engage KERS they'll probably also engage the front flaps to reduce drag down the straight to aid straight line speed?


Potentially, expect a couple more paddles on the steering wheel, for everyone to get into a flap over.

#29 Ferrari F1

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 20:04

May i just comment with Ferrari usually understeering is a wider front wing a solution to that and a narrower rear wing. Similarly the McLaren oversteers, meaninng this would hurt them with narrower rear wing and wider front wing.

#30 Odvan

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 20:08

Originally posted by AFCA
Ferrari has made a lot of progress on next year's car already and I'm certain the chassis is already being build now. So far the major struggle appears to be KERS, hopefully the second version of the system is going to work in December.


I have only one question - how they can making good chassis without KERS? Or they already has specs?

#31 rolf123

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 20:14

Originally posted by senna da silva
I hope the 2009 Ferrari is a piece of ****. :up:


Out of the F2008 thread and now in this thread. Get lost, twerp!

#32 ATM_Andy

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 20:17

Originally posted by Ferrari F1
May i just comment with Ferrari usually understeering is a wider front wing a solution to that and a narrower rear wing. Similarly the McLaren oversteers, meaninng this would hurt them with narrower rear wing and wider front wing.


I'm afraid it's not that simple, the aerodynamic changes are vast and not just limited to the front and rear wings. The change to slick tyres will be a massive factor, tyre management will be completly different. The makeup of a slick tyre is very different to that of a grooved tyre, and the way they works, respond, wears, the dynamics of the tyres are really quite different.

#33 ATM_Andy

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 20:18

Originally posted by Odvan


I have only one question - how they can making good chassis without KERS? Or they already has specs?


The provision, for KERS, will be more or less set.

#34 Odvan

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 20:32

Originally posted by ATM_Andy


The provision, for KERS, will be more or less set.


More or less it can be crucial factor for F2009, i think.

Patrick Head: You have got to remember that the KERS, when you analyse the potential, the difference it makes can be somewhere between 0.1s and 0.3s, perhaps at the maximum 0.35s per lap, putting aside whether it helps you overtake. Having your weight distribution inappropriate for the tyres by more than one or two percent will probably make more difference than those one or two tenths of a second per lap.



#35 antrock

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 20:35

Originally posted by Anomander



That sounds a pretty bad ruling, FIA are tighting things up too much, banning winglets I can understand but getting rid of the bridge wings and standard nows is just bad.


i believe this rule was enforced because most of the downforce on the front wing is created in the middle (the spoon) section and since the vast majority of the upwash from the rear wing and diffusor is also in the center, FIA is trying to make the teams to create downforce at the extremities where there is still relatively clean air thus allowing cars to follow eachother closer. feel free to correct me tho!

#36 Odvan

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 20:51

A little photoshop.

Posted Image

#37 BuonoBruttoCattivo

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 21:19

Originally posted by undersquare


As a Mac fan, let me say that post is a disgrace :down:


Why? :lol: He's entitled to an opinion...
Infact I hope mp4/24 will be a piece of ****... :lol:

#38 rolf123

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 21:46

Boy do the new wings look ugly. The front wing is so huge it looks like the front of a digger or snow plough.

#39 senna da silva

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 22:03

Originally posted by BuonoBruttoCattivo


Why? :lol: He's entitled to an opinion...
Infact I hope mp4/24 will be a piece of ****... :lol:


:rotfl:
Thank you. I really do sincerely hope the 2009 Ferrari is a pice of ****. :kiss:

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#40 equality

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 22:19

Do i understand it correct youre saying you hope ithe f2009 goes like stink? :p

#41 rolf123

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 22:38

user CP, Edit Ignore List, senna da silva

#42 antrock

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 22:38

i just noticed one thing by looking at that f2009 mock up. the mirrors will most likely be installed closer to the cockpit or even like they used to be since they wont be in the way of the narrower rear wing

#43 GrndLkNatv

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 23:10

Originally posted by senna da silva
I hope the 2009 Ferrari is a piece of ****. :up:


You had better hope not, since McLaren will be copying it! BTW, McLaren is like a house fly.. It eats sh.. and bugs the he.. out of people...

#44 Lazy Prodigy

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 01:27

Originally posted by Odvan
A little photoshop.

Posted Image

Are barge boards gone too?

#45 raiseyourfistfor

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 01:39

The bargeboards are still there but they are smaller, look right where the sidepod ends.

Anyway I wish 2009 cars looked like this http://www.autosport...to.php/id/98375 but unfortunately they wont ):

#46 rodlamas

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 10:03

Massa on the brazilian TV last night abot the 2009 regs

- The new aero configuration will make cars 4 seconds per lap slower.
- Slick tyres will give something around 3 seconds per lap back.
- KERS will weight about 40 kgs and bring 70-75 bhp during 6 secs per lap.

#47 kar

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 10:27

Originally posted by rodlamas
Massa on the brazilian TV last night abot the 2009 regs

- The new aero configuration will make cars 4 seconds per lap slower.
- Slick tyres will give something around 3 seconds per lap back.
- KERS will weight about 40 kgs and bring 70-75 bhp during 6 secs per lap.


Hopefully that means Ferrari are being coy about their KERS :-)

#48 rolf123

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 10:49

Originally posted by rodlamas
Massa on the brazilian TV last night abot the 2009 regs

- The new aero configuration will make cars 4 seconds per lap slower.
- Slick tyres will give something around 3 seconds per lap back.
- KERS will weight about 40 kgs and bring 70-75 bhp during 6 secs per lap.


Thanks, how does Massa look? Does he still have confidence for next year? I hope he doesn't beat himself up about this year.

#49 z2z

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 10:50

Is it allowed to automatically execute boost(KERS power) after if acceleration is for specific sec/ms? ;)

As frozen engine rule has melted ... any word about that engine development & its reliability which has to survive for additional race weekend next year?

#50 Always_Ferrari

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 12:37

Originally posted by rolf123
user CP, Edit Ignore List, senna da silva


:up: