26 replies to this topic

[f li]

How many drivers have succeeded at lapping the rest of the field? Who was most successful at it??

[Marcel Schot]

The full list:

1950 Monaco : Juan Manuel Fangio (Montecarlo)
1952 France : Alberto Ascari (Rouen) *
1952 Britain : Alberto Ascari (Silverstone) *
1953 Argentina : Alberto Ascari (Buenos Aires)
1954 Italy : Juan Manuel Fangio (Monza)
1856 Britain : Juan Manuel Fangio (Silverstone)
1959 Portugal : Stirling Moss (Monsanto)
1961 France : Dan Gurney (Rouen)
1963 Holland : Jim Clark (Zandvoort)
1964 Monaco : Graham Hill (Montecarlo)
1966 Holland : Jack Brabham (Zandvoort)
1966 US : Jim Clark (Watkins Glen)
1967 Monaco : Denny Hulme (Montecarlo)
1968 Canada : Denny Hulme (St Jovite)
1969 Spain : Jackie Stewart (Montjuich) **
1969 Britain : Jackie Stewart (Silverstone)
1970 Spain : Jackie Stewart (Jarama)
1975 Britain : Emerson Fittipaldi (Silverstone) ***
1976 Japan : Mario Andretti (Fuji)
1982 Monaco : Riccardo Patrese (Montecarlo) ****
1985 Britain : Alain Prost (Silverstone)
1986 Austria : Alain Prost (Osterreichring)
1994 Brazil : Michael Schumacher (Interlagos)
1995 Australia : Damon Hill (Adelaide) **

* = back to back races
** = lapped the field twice
*** = race stopped early, only 5 cars not retired
**** = numbers 2 and 3 retired in the final lap, number 4 was lapped (Pironi, de Cesaris, Mansell were 2,3,4)

So the leaders are:
Albert Ascari 3
Juan Manuel Fangio 3
Jackie Stewart 3
Jim Clark 2
Denny Hulme 2
Alain Prost 2
Mario Andretti 1
Jack Brabham 1
Emerson Fittipaldi 1
Dan Gurney 1
Damon Hill 1
Graham Hill 1
Stirling Moss 1
Riccardo Patrese 1
Michael Schumacher 1


[This message has been edited by Marcel Schot (edited 03-05-2000).]

[Fast One]

No bums on THAT list!

[f li]

Marcel,

Who came the closest to lapping the field at Spa? Was it Clark in 1963?

[Fast One]

At Spa in '66 Surtees lapped everyone but Rindt, whose car was dropping back at the end with a failing differential. I'm not sure what the margin of victoy was though, so I can't say how close he came. Does anyone know?

[f li]

Fast One,

Forix says that in 63 Clark's margin 4'54 over McLaren (fastest lap was under 4'), in 66 Surtees beat Rindt by 0'42 (fastest lap was over 4'). (I may be reading Forix wrong - but that's what I am getting.)

[Marcel Schot]

Here are the gaps between 1 and 2 at Spa throughout the years. I've left a blank line between each trackchange. The times are gaps and fastlap.

1950 Fangio - Fagioli 0m14.0 4m34.1
1951 Farina - Ascari 2m51.0 4m22.1
1952 Ascari - Farina 1m55.2 4m54.0
1953 Ascari - Villoresi 2m48.2 4m34.0
1954 Fangio - Trintignant 0m24.2 4m25.5
1955 Fangio - Moss 0m08.1 4m20.6
1956 Collins - Frere 1m51.6 4m14.7

1958 Brooks - Hawthorn 0m20.7 3m58.3
1960 Brabham - McLaren 1m03.3 3m51.9
1961 P.Hill - von Trips 0m00.7 3m59.8
1962 Clark - G.Hill 0m44.1 3m55.6
1963 Clark - McLaren 4m54.0 3m58.1
1964 Clark - McLaren 0m03.4 3m49.2
1965 Clark - Stewart 0m44.8 4m12.9
1966 Surtees - Rindt 0m42.1 4m18.7
1967 Gurney - Stewart 1m03.0 3m31.9
1968 McLaren - Rodriguez 0m12.1 3m30.5
1970 Rodriguez - Amon 0m01.1 3m27.4

1983 Prost - Tambay 0m23.1 2m07.4
1985 Senna - Mansell 0m28.5 2m01.7

1986 Mansell - Senna 0m19.8 1m59.2
1987 Prost - Johansson 0m24.7 1m57.1
1988 Senna - Prost 0m30.5 2m00.7
1989 Senna - Prost 0m01.4 2m11.5
1990 Senna - Prost 0m03.6 1m55.0
1991 Senna - Berger 0m02.1 1m55.1

1992 Schumacher - Mansell 0m36.6 1m53.7
1993 Hill - Schumacher 0m03.6 1m51.0

1994 Hill - Hakkinen 0m51.4 1m57.1

1995 Schumacher - Hill 0m19.5 1m53.4

1996 Schumacher - Villeneuve 0m05.6 1m53.0
1997 Schumacher - Fisichella 0m26.7 1m52.6
1998 Hill - R.Schumacher 0m00.9 2m03.7
1999 Coulthard - Hakkinen 0m10.4 1m53.9

As you see, Clark in 1963 is the only one to have a gap bigger than the fastest lap. The top 5:
1963 Clark - McLaren 4m54.0 3m58.1
1951 Farina - Ascari 2m51.0 4m22.1 (~65%)
1953 Ascari - Villoresi 2m48.2 4m34.0 (~61%)
1956 Collins - Frere 1m51.6 4m14.7 (~44%)
1994 Hill - Hakkinen 0m51.4 1m57.1 (~43%)

[Roger Clark]

I saw Moss lap the field in the International Trophy Meeting at Silverstone in 1961. Anon-championship race, but shorter than a GP so you could argue that it was even more dominant. It poured with rain throughout. Afterwards Brabham said that he would be upset, if Moss were human.

[f li]

Holy ****!

(And Marcel does this from memory!)

Thanks!

Roger,

I think it poured at Spa 1963. That would explain why with an under 4 minute fastest lap, the near 5 minute gap was not a complete lap.

[This message has been edited by f li (edited 03-05-2000).]

[Marcel Schot]

f li: hehe, I wish I could. Fortunately my memory is stored in books. I'd say it's freakish enough as it is, let alone me being able to pull all this data from the top of my head.

As to the weather conditions at Spa 1963 : Cool, wet and dull it's called. Of the top 5 also 1956 was driven (partly) in the wet.

Ofcourse 1994 was Schumacher over Hill on the track, with Schumacher being disqualified later because of illegal plankwear. His margin over Hill was 13.6 seconds.

[This message has been edited by Marcel Schot (edited 03-05-2000).]

[Fast One]

f li--

I couldn't find the gaps on Forix (I really have to learn my way around that sight.), so I wasn't attempting to assert the '66 race was the biggest. I just knew only one other car finished on the lead lap so I guessed that was a good place to start. I forgot Marcel is a walking computer and would know anyway! Silly me...

[Ray Bell]

Marcel -
The British race that Fangio won - was that Juan Manuel's great grandfather, or some other Fangio altogether?
Also, as the circuit was dirt then, was the lap shorter?

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Marcel Schot]

Ray : it was actually his grandfather Ofcourse it was a running contest, since automobiles didn't exist in 1856 (or did they?)

Thanks for pointing out

[Don Capps]

Gurney lapped the field twice at Rouen in 1962 which was amazing considering that the 804 was about as dependable as a Yugo on the Turnpike in rush hour.

We keep coming back to Spa 1963, but what a race for Clark - at one point he was staying on the road by looking at the tops of the telephone poles to see where the road went it was miserable. My favorite story of the race - as relayed by HNMIII - was that several drivers sized up the situation just before the start and suggested to their mechanics that perhaps they could leave the cover to the ignition just loose enough... I also recall that the de Beaufort Porsche survived the race, but only after popping the clutch - after losing reverse, assuming the 718/2 even had one at that point - and nosing someone off the track after they had good whoopteedoo arounf Burneville or somewhere.

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…

[Roger Clark]

You need to take account of the lap length. Jackie Stewart won the 1968 German GP by 3.5 minutes, which would be nearly 3 laps on most cicuits today. On the Nurburgring it wasn't much mote than the length of the finishing straight.

[Marcel Schot]

Don : de Beaufort...what a remarkable man. A true sportsman and much more of an ambassador for Dutch Grand Prix racing than Jos Verstappen could ever be.

Sadly, he also was one of those people who besides living for racing, also died for racing.

There are so many moment that describe what he was all about

For example during qualifying for the 1962 French Grand Prix, when officials feared the worst because de Beaufort didn't return from his lap. Later it became clear why. He didn't have an accident, he picked up a young lady to show her the track, which obviously took a bit longer than a full speed lap.

Or the time he tried out his Cooper during qualifying for a Belgian Grand Prix. Carel wasn't registered with the organization, he just drove onto the track in his Formula 2 car and confused the hell out of them.

Both occasions are described in the book "100 jaar autosport, 50 jaar circuit Zandvoort" (100 years autosports, 50 years Zandvoort)

[Roger Clark]

Marcel, another story about de Beaufort

In the F2 race supporting the '59 German GP on the AVUS he lost control of his Porsche in the middle of the banking, spun over the top and disappeared over the lip. to general astonishment he reappeared unabashed at the paddock entrance with the front of his car smashed in having careered down the reverse side of the banking and then having picked his way out between the parked transporters and F1 cars he joined the race. The organisers spent two laps recovering from thier amazement before black flagging him.

From BRM by Doug Nye.

[Ray Bell]

Because I never heard of de Beaufort before 1962 (when I started reading about GPs) and subsequently have never heard any of his history, I have no conception of these stories related.
He now leaps into the Bonnier mould for me, but with a much nicer personality.
It was a tragedy to me to read of his death at the time, probably affecting me more than the likes of McLaren.
Why? Because he was there for the sport, not the money, the prestige or titles. Just to be a part of it. Bob Anderson was much the same. I know Jenkinson approved.

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Leo Landman]

If someone would be kind enough to explain how I can include pictures (.jpg), I'll post a great one of Clark and De Beaufort in that Spa race.

[Marcel Schot]

Roger : Very famous story indeed. On the other hand de Beaufort was much critizised when he let photographers picture him on the edge of the ramp the next day, while Jean Behra had died there in the race.

Leo :

[img]url of where the picture is located [/img]

should work, so for example

[IMx]www.forix.com/iex/imgz/1985/02012_RN.JPG[/IMx]

where the x in IMx is replaced by a G would show this:




[This message has been edited by Marcel Schot (edited 03-07-2000).]

[f li]

Marcel,

Doesn't that have to be an address on a webserver?

[Marcel Schot]

Oops, forgot to add the http:// back in

[Dennis David]

Marcel,

I'm hoping to receive my copy of "100 jaar autosport, 50 jaar circuit Zandvoort shortly.


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Regards,

Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/

[Leo Landman]

Thanks Marcel, but the .jpg is not on a webserver but on my HD. Is there any way to include that in a message?

P.S. watch this week's 'Sportpaleis De Jong' on TV, they have an item about Carel Godin de Beaufort!

[This message has been edited by Leo Landman (edited 03-07-2000).]

[Marcel Schot]

Leo : I'll definatelly have a look (if it's not too late already). Never watched the show before.

In order for the pic to be shown, it has to reside on a webserver. If you don't have a webpage yourself, you can mail me the pic and I'll put it on mine and post the link here.

[Marcel Schot]

Here's Leo's picture of Clark and de Beaufort:

[Ray Bell]

Isn't that fabulous!

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Life and love are mixed with pain...