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Croft Circuit may face closure...


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#101 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 17:54

Originally posted by taylov


The Revett Straight was never an ideal place to run dragsters, even with the extra piece of track.

The first problem was a bump where the main track ran off to the the Esses at the right of the dragstrip. It was not uncommon to see a fuel dragster launch well only to "go up in smoke" when it hit the change in surface.

More important to me - I often worked at the top end of the dragstrip - was the short length available to stop a 220mph car. I was working there when Liz Burn crashed her Top Fuel car (the ex Clive Skilton, ex Kuhl & Olsen car) and ended up in the next field. Also I remember assisting with a burning fuel Funny Car which lost its brakes and went off the end of the track at Sears (I can't recall who that was).

After a number of accidents, the NDRC dropped the fuel cars from its later meeetings and the Pro Comp (supercharged alcohol dragsters and funny cars) class were the fastest with 200mph terminals. The drag races at Snetterton did attract some very big crowds but it became impossible to run the fastest, most spectacular cars on the short track. I don't recall the NDRC or promoters ever getting complaints about the noise, however.

Tony


I was there too when Liz had her crash. Couldn't believe it when we went home, passing the track at Sear. The car was a very long way from the end of the strip in the middle of a field.

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#102 taylov

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 21:10

Originally posted by taylov


The Revett Straight was never an ideal place to run dragsters, even with the extra piece of track.

Also I remember assisting with a burning fuel Funny Car which lost its brakes and went off the end of the track at Sears (I can't recall who that was).
Tony


Found it.

It was May 23 1976 at Snetterton. The Hemi engine in Roland Pratts Hillbillies Avenger Funny Car let go during the first round of eliminations. The car was engulfed in a ball of flame at over 150mph but Roland escaped unhurt. (Ref Trackbytes Drag Racing History)

Tony

#103 elansprint72

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 22:29

Originally posted by Rob


Well they lost F3s and GTs a few years ago because of the noise issue. :(


Much as it pains me say this, I can understand this one; Castle Combe must be one of the most beautiful villages in England, it is very close to the circuit; although in a steep wooded valley.

Croft, however, appears to have very few near neighbours and, as motor racing commenced there in 1928 (with a few gaps) it would not be unreasonable to expect a bit of noise and, without knowing the precise details of this case, I would have thought that, during the purchase transactions a solicitor, would have been bound to advise his client of this pre-existing "nuisance". Let's hope that when it comes to court again a more enlightened panel will be sitting.

#104 Dutchy

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 07:46

Originally posted by elansprint72



Croft, however, appears to have very few near neighbours and, as motor racing commenced there in 1928 (with a few gaps) it would not be unreasonable to expect a bit of noise and, without knowing the precise details of this case, I would have thought that, during the purchase transactions a solicitor, would have been bound to advise his client of this pre-existing "nuisance". Let's hope that when it comes to court again a more enlightened panel will be sitting.


Motor racing started at Croft Autodrome in 1964 yet I've seen several references to motor sport events being run there in the 1920s. I've know nothing about these - does anyone know more? Motorcycle grass track? Surely the site was fields before the aerodrome was built in WW2?

#105 Hieronymus

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 09:01

Since this thread deals with noise issues I have been wondering about the noise control measures at race meetings. What is the procedure in the UK? I know there are sound level limits for different car racing categories.

Are all cars tested according to a set procedure prior for noise?
Say at technical scrutineering before practice starts?
If so, how often...at every meeting?
Who perform these tests, if any? Technical stewards?
What is the penalty for non-compliance?

#106 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 09:03

At Snetterton all cars are tested when they enter the assembly area.

#107 Rob Ryder

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 09:09

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
At Snetterton all cars are tested when they enter the assembly area.

The same procedure is used at Croft.. every car is stopped at the entrance to the assembly are, the engine revved to an agreed rpm, and the noise level checked at the exhaust..
... and yes, I have seen cars refused access to the track for failing this check.

I don't know what happens at 'track days', but I assume the same.

Rob

#108 Stephen W

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 09:36

I don't think that the "engine noise" is the problem with track days, it is more likely to be tyre noise.

Not every track day monitors noise however I am reliably informed that Croft do.

:wave:

#109 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 09:39

I think it is mainly the bikes.

#110 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 09:45

Originally posted by elansprint72


Much as it pains me say this, I can understand this one; Castle Combe must be one of the most beautiful villages in England, it is very close to the circuit; although in a steep wooded valley.


I don't think in truth it really is that close. As you say, the village is in a wooded valley and actually well insulated from the track noise , which is in any case very muted by the huge earth banks that now surround it on most sides. It's quite possible to stand in the paddock and barely hear a whole field of cars as they negociate the back part of the track on the first lap. From outside the earth banks it's even quieter . The main village itself, the pretty bit you see in photos, is completely invisible from any point of the circuit and race day traffic does not go through it as the roads to the M4 all byepass it by some distance.

I think the noise complaints have largely come from the other end of the track out towards Chippenham.

It's been said in the past that the Combe locals don't complain, it's the incomers and holiday-cottagers who all knew the score when they moved in. And lets not forget the possible financial benefits now available for those who make a fuss. It's no longer a battle for 'peace and quiet' it's now potentially for hard cash. ):

#111 Hieronymus

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 09:47

Originally posted by Rob Ryder

The same procedure is used at Croft.. every car is stopped at the entrance to the assembly are, the engine revved to an agreed rpm, and the noise level checked at the exhaust..
... and yes, I have seen cars refused access to the track for failing this check.

I don't know what happens at 'track days', but I assume the same.

Rob


I know that the FIM will introduce a new noise testing method, since they found several problems with the old method.

#112 bonsaichris

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 22:37

A few years ago we were invited to book testing time at Donnington on the Friday at a very cheap rate. It was a Porsche Club weekend and the condition was that we would give members track rides and go out with them in their own cars. although the weekend didnt have noise restictions the Friday was classed as a quiet day. Before we were allowed on the track the local environmental officer was carrying out noise checks in the paddock, all the air cooled Porsche cars failed, the water cooled front engined Porsches passed. The officer refused to carry out drive by tests on the circuit where it was obvious that a lot of the water cooled were very noisy. The final straw for us was twofold 1.) they officer kept stopping testing as aircraft took off and landed at East Midlands Airport - there was too much noise and 2.) in desparation we got him to test a brand new Porsche road car that John Farren our race co-ordinator had driven up in - this failed miserably
My point is that, ability to comply with the prescribed noise regs by the scrutineers is not a guarantee of being able to race, and at the end of the day local regulators will make up there own rules as they go along - usually in their favour not ours.

#113 elansprint72

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 22:51

Originally posted by Dutchy


Motor racing started at Croft Autodrome in 1964 yet I've seen several references to motor sport events being run there in the 1920s. I've know nothing about these - does anyone know more? Motorcycle grass track? Surely the site was fields before the aerodrome was built in WW2?


According to Motorsport News this week:

"Initial races took place on the airfield from the 1920s, which was (sic) then brought to a halt in World War Two.........".

They go to say that racing started again in 1947, stopped in 1952, started again in 1964, stopped again in 1981, except for Rallycross. I have no idea if these dates are accurate.

#114 Dutchy

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 07:40

I don't believe it. This site gives a pretty comprehensive history and the aerodrome wasn't built until 1941!
http://www.racing70s...n/croftinfo.htm

#115 zakeriath

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 08:19

Originally posted by rx-guru
PRESS AND MEDIA INFORMATION

Wednesday 28th January 2009
For immediate release



FURTHER STATEMENT FROM CROFT CIRCUIT

Croft Promosport would like to express their gratitude to all those people who have contributed to the overwhelming and unprecedented support, which has been shown for the Circuit in this difficult period. However, we would ask that all people show respect for the Court of Appeal's decision and the rights and privacy of the Claimants in those proceedings.

Ends



Sadly this was in response to personal details of the claimants being posted on the save Croft facebook site.

#116 john aston

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 08:41

Originally posted by Rob Ryder

The same procedure is used at Croft.. every car is stopped at the entrance to the assembly are, the engine revved to an agreed rpm, and the noise level checked at the exhaust..
... and yes, I have seen cars refused access to the track for failing this check.

I don't know what happens at 'track days', but I assume the same.

Rob

I have driven many track days at Croft in my Caterham; until about 2001 I don't think I was ever noise tested.After some planning brouhaha the regime became rigourous and I have always been noise tested before every event. I can only manage a whispering 95dB in current R400- must try harder...

#117 Belmondo

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:13

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson

I'd pick quieter racing but would hardly ever go. I mean, it's like going to an airshow to see a Spitfire, but if you can't hear the Merlin, what's the point?


I do miss the noise. Such an important part of the spectacle. I often wonder why spectating seems so much less exciting than it used to – and perhaps it's because it's all so muffled.

#118 Catalina Park

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:21

Funny how the world loves V8 Supercars because of the big V8 sound but they don't realise that all circuit racing in Australia is limited to 95db.
Our noise tests are a noise meter in the middle of the track and the cars drive by. So the noise limits are tested during every lap of every race.

You don't need to be deafened to enjoy the sound of a racing car.

#119 Stephen W

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:41

Originally posted by Catalina Park
Funny how the world loves V8 Supercars because of the big V8 sound but they don't realise that all circuit racing in Australia is limited to 95db.
Our noise tests are a noise meter in the middle of the track and the cars drive by. So the noise limits are tested during every lap of every race.

You don't need to be deafened to enjoy the sound of a racing car.


I bet they would struggle to reach 95db with a static test as most race cars are quieter when on track rather than sat in neutral revving to whatever percent of the maximum is required these days!

:wave:

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#120 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 09:53

Originally posted by Catalina Park
Funny how the world loves V8 Supercars because of the big V8 sound but they don't realise that all circuit racing in Australia is limited to 95db.
Our noise tests are a noise meter in the middle of the track and the cars drive by. So the noise limits are tested during every lap of every race.

You don't need to be deafened to enjoy the sound of a racing car.


I have to say that from watching on TV they do actually sound very muffled to me - I assumed it was just the way the broadcaster balanced the sound. Obviously not.

Then again 95db measured from 10 yards is a massive difference to 95db just 18 inches from the exhaust so it all depends on exactly how these levels are measured.

When I raced at Combe we had the same noise limit as they required for a track day. On race days we easily passed, on one and only one track day we failed by miles. The same car with absolutely nothing altered, then passed again two weeks later - easily.
The difference was probably a noise check done with a large building nearby that reflected the sound back as against done in the open . We argued this but to no effect which caused a LOT of bad feeling as it was patently wrong and wasted a lot of cash and time.

Years later we did a forest rally with a 3.9 Land Rover V8. It failed noise so ended up with an extra silencer in place - and still only just passed. Out on the stages you simply could not hear it coming. Unlike a great many cars that easily passed. There is a similar situation in hillclimbs where most of the big V8s are very quiet indeed compared to the small bike engined devices. It seems there are certain pitches or types of sound that noise meters hear and human ears don't. And vice versa. Tricky.

#121 Yendor

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 11:26

Excellent article re the Croft saga published on BikeSport News website:http://bikesportnews...html?id=2&col=1

"CROFT - THE THIN END OF THE WEDGE

The rejection of the Croft Circuit appeal looks surprising and frightening in equal measure to most people within the industry. However, it is not the first circuit to be subjected to such Draconian restrictions.

Lydden Hill in Kent suffered a similar ruling back in the late 1980s, with Dover District Council siding with just three residents and imposing strict conditions for the operation of the venue which limited the circuit to just 52 days of activity in any calendar year. The venue has survived until the present day, but you only have to look at how far its development has fallen behind the other permanent circuits in the intervening years to see the drastic effect this has on investment and facilities.

If anything, the Croft situation is even more serious as BARC have invested heavily in the venue expecting to be able to reap the rewards of that financial outlay over a period of many years. The simple arithmetic says that in order to maintain the venue in its current state, an average days circuit hire would need to go from approximately £17,000 per day (based on 144 days useage) to a new level of £61,200 per day (based on the new restriction of just 40 days). Clearly that is an untenable situation and savings would have to made elsewhere, but to attempt to make savings of £1,768,000 each year is probably beyond even the considerable business skills of the BARC.

The scary thing about this case, is how the claimants by-passed the Section 106 Planning Permissions that the circuit owners had operated within since 1998. Most circuit operators are extremely careful to stay well within the planning permission for their particular venue, thus giving their neighbours no reasonable excuse to challenge their right to operate the business within those restrictions.

The key difference here is that this challenge is somewhat of an “inside job” given that one of the principals was formerly married to the circuit manager when they bought the property and the incisive point is that she was fully aware of the operations that took place before the 1998 planning permission was finalised.

The vital period from the claimants point of view was 1994 to 1998 and this is how they diverted the accusation that they had “Come to Nuisance” which is the sane mans way of saying “If you move in next to a motor racing circuit, what do you expect?”

Quoting from the ruling:
The use of the circuit since 1949 falls into five distinct periods:
(1) 1949 to 1962 intermittent use for car racing;
(2) 1963 to 1979 car racing on not more than 20 days a year together with
additional associated practice days;
(3) 1980 to 1994 10 days a year rallycross;
(4) 1995 to 1997 sporadic race meetings interspersed with track alteration and
improvements;
(5) 1998 to 2006 between 98 and 147 N1 to N4 days a year, as defined in the
s.106 Agreement.

During the period they refer to(1994 – 1998), the venue was still ostensibly operating on the 1963 permission, which is all well and good, except for the fact that in 1981 the then owner had applied for (and had been granted) permission to return the land to agricultural use. This is the spurious basis for the claim that the area was predominantly rural in nature, despite the fact that it had a former airfield and a motor racing circuit at its heart.

Common sense says that the full Public Enquiry in 1998 that heard all of the arguments from both sides and established the Section 106 permission, should have been the definitive end to the argument. It was on the basis of this that major investment was made for the benefit of motorsport, but also importantly for the benefit of the local community.

It now seems that a succession of four judges have all come to the conclusion that they can assess the merits of the case from the confines of their courtrooms in a total of just five days, better than a full public enquiry that took over eight months to complete in 1998. In addition to this, the Court of Appeal has actually strengthened the ruling by adding an injunction to the original ruling.

It has been stated right from the start that there was no intention by the claimants to interfere with the circuits “Core Activities”. However, it would appear that there is a complete lack of understanding over exactly what every motor racing circuits “Core Activities” consist of in the modern world.

Most circuits make as much, if not more, money from track days, experience days and corporate days than they do from actual racing activities. Therefore their “Core Activities” should actually be described as Motor Vehicle Speed events rather than Motor Sport events.

Sadly, we are being ruled by a judiciary that have little or no understanding of the real world and we are considered to be a nuisance, right up until the moment that these very same people want to sup Champagne in the comfort of the HSBC lounge at the British F1 Grand Prix. I am left looking forward to the first case brought by the neighbours of Cheltenham Race Course or Epsom Downs using this ridiculous precedent! We’ll see how they react to that little “side-effect” of this stupid ruling!

The circuit owners are doubtless now meeting to form a united strategy to confront this most serious threat to the Motor Sport industry, something that generates over £5 billion for the British economy and empoys thousands of people.

If the government is even considering letting Britain become Switzerland MkII (motorsport-free) it might be a good idea to look at the rest of the economy first;- Switzerland relies entirely on its banking sector. Looking at the complete corrupt and unscrupulous mess that is the British banking industry, do the law-makers really want to model private industry on that most dubious sector?

A challenge to this must come. Not just for the sake of Croft or the BARC, but for everyone that has ever been involved in the sport. Doing nothing is tantamount to collaborating with these modern-day pirates and is simply not an option.

“A collaborator is someone who feeds the crocodile hoping to be eaten last” – Winston Churchill 1939

The circuits, RAC-MSA, ACU, MCRCB, MRPC and MCI will need to come up with a plan of action fairly soon and when they do, it will be our responsibility to support them to the hilt."

Written by Thundersport promoter Dave Stewart.

#122 Stephen W

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 11:40

There is very little to add to the superb article written by Dave Stewart.

I do hope that the MSA actually see this as a threat and will get off their backsides and for once organise the fight to defeat this rather tenuous decision.

:mad:

#123 Vitesse2

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 12:35

Originally posted by Dutchy


Motor racing started at Croft Autodrome in 1964 yet I've seen several references to motor sport events being run there in the 1920s. I've know nothing about these - does anyone know more? Motorcycle grass track? Surely the site was fields before the aerodrome was built in WW2?

1941 seems to be the accepted date for the aerodrome - built as an RCAF bomber base - but there is another (private) Croft airstrip near Skegness.

http://www.homepages...Airfields_1.htm

Croft has apparently also been known as Neasham, but a search of "Flight" turns up no references to that pre-1950. Croft first appears in 1945.

#124 kayemod

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 13:58

Excellent piece by Dave Stewart.

To lighten the mood slightly, anyone else remember one of my all time favourite Catchpole strips? Our hero is putting some money into an elderly lady's collecting tin. He says to the forever mute Tweak, "I always like to support a good cause, it's for a new fire extinguisher for Croft."

Boom boom!

#125 kayemod

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 14:11

Originally posted by Vitesse2

1941 seems to be the accepted date for the aerodrome - built as an RCAF bomber base - but there is another (private) Croft airstrip near Skegness.


Not terribly important, but I don't think that's quite accurate. The airfield was built in 1940 as a satellite station with several RAF squadrons based there, Wellingtons and Whitleys in the only photo I've seen. They were joined by one RCAF squadron in late 42, and in early 43, it became a wholly RCAF base, mostly flying Halifax & Lancaster aircraft. When the Canadians went home, the RAF took it back for a year or two, finally abandoning the place in 46. Neasham was the name of a local flyer who took out a lease on the place in 1947 as an airfield for local civilian flying. I can't quote a source, but I remember being told that car racing commenced in 1950, with Sunday's activities starting at noon so as not to interfere with local church services.

#126 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 14:20

Originally posted by kayemod


Not terribly important, but I don't think that's quite accurate. The airfield was built in 1940 as a satellite station with several RAF squadrons based there, Wellingtons and Whitleys in the only photo I've seen. They were joined by one RCAF squadron in late 42, and in early 43, it became a wholly RCAF base, mostly flying Halifax & Lancaster aircraft. When the Canadians went home, the RAF took it back for a year or two, finally abandoning the place in 46. Neasham was the name of a local flyer who took out a lease on the place in 1947 as an airfield for local civilian flying. I can't quote a source, but I remember being told that car racing commenced in 1950, with Sunday's activities starting at noon so as not to interfere with local church services.


For some years the Croft car 'races' in the early 50s were in fact some kind of high-speed trial (probably for some kind of track-licensing reason). I think I had a programme or two in stock some years ago and they showed that events at Croft wasn't your average type of meeting and the track doesn't tend to feature in directories and yearbooks of the time as even the most minor racing venues did. Curious.
I think some of these trials were actually quite lengthy and many of the names involved were familiar for the time. Not sure how long this situation lasted but I think it was some 4-5 years.

#127 taylov

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 17:45

Originally posted by Vitesse2

1941 seems to be the accepted date for the aerodrome - built as an RCAF bomber base - but there is another (private) Croft airstrip near Skegness.

http://www.homepages...Airfields_1.htm

Croft has apparently also been known as Neasham, but a search of "Flight" turns up no references to that pre-1950. Croft first appears in 1945.


The place was called Neasham Airfield when the Darlington & District MC ran a speed trial there on 11/9/1955.

The inside of the programme decribes the venue as "Formerly Croft Airfield" There's no circuit plan but the track is given as One and one eighth of a mile, ie. much shorter than the lap of 1.64 miles which opened in 1964.

The name Neasham comes from John Neasham, a local businessman, who took a lease on the airfield in 1947.

Tony

#128 Hieronymus

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 19:49

Originally posted by Yendor
Excellent article re the Croft saga published on BikeSport News website:http://bikesportnews...html?id=2&col=1

"CROFT - THE THIN END OF THE WEDGE

The rejection of the Croft Circuit appeal looks surprising and frightening in equal measure to most people within the industry. However, it is not the first circuit to be subjected to such Draconian restrictions.

Lydden Hill in Kent suffered a similar ruling back in the late 1980s, with Dover District Council siding with just three residents and imposing strict conditions for the operation of the venue which limited the circuit to just 52 days of activity in any calendar year. The venue has survived until the present day, but you only have to look at how far its development has fallen behind the other permanent circuits in the intervening years to see the drastic effect this has on investment and facilities.

If anything, the Croft situation is even more serious as BARC have invested heavily in the venue expecting to be able to reap the rewards of that financial outlay over a period of many years. The simple arithmetic says that in order to maintain the venue in its current state, an average days circuit hire would need to go from approximately £17,000 per day (based on 144 days useage) to a new level of £61,200 per day (based on the new restriction of just 40 days). Clearly that is an untenable situation and savings would have to made elsewhere, but to attempt to make savings of £1,768,000 each year is probably beyond even the considerable business skills of the BARC.

The scary thing about this case, is how the claimants by-passed the Section 106 Planning Permissions that the circuit owners had operated within since 1998. Most circuit operators are extremely careful to stay well within the planning permission for their particular venue, thus giving their neighbours no reasonable excuse to challenge their right to operate the business within those restrictions.

The key difference here is that this challenge is somewhat of an “inside job” given that one of the principals was formerly married to the circuit manager when they bought the property and the incisive point is that she was fully aware of the operations that took place before the 1998 planning permission was finalised.

The vital period from the claimants point of view was 1994 to 1998 and this is how they diverted the accusation that they had “Come to Nuisance” which is the sane mans way of saying “If you move in next to a motor racing circuit, what do you expect?”

Quoting from the ruling:
The use of the circuit since 1949 falls into five distinct periods:
(1) 1949 to 1962 intermittent use for car racing;
(2) 1963 to 1979 car racing on not more than 20 days a year together with
additional associated practice days;
(3) 1980 to 1994 10 days a year rallycross;
(4) 1995 to 1997 sporadic race meetings interspersed with track alteration and
improvements;
(5) 1998 to 2006 between 98 and 147 N1 to N4 days a year, as defined in the
s.106 Agreement.

During the period they refer to(1994 – 1998), the venue was still ostensibly operating on the 1963 permission, which is all well and good, except for the fact that in 1981 the then owner had applied for (and had been granted) permission to return the land to agricultural use. This is the spurious basis for the claim that the area was predominantly rural in nature, despite the fact that it had a former airfield and a motor racing circuit at its heart.

Common sense says that the full Public Enquiry in 1998 that heard all of the arguments from both sides and established the Section 106 permission, should have been the definitive end to the argument. It was on the basis of this that major investment was made for the benefit of motorsport, but also importantly for the benefit of the local community.

It now seems that a succession of four judges have all come to the conclusion that they can assess the merits of the case from the confines of their courtrooms in a total of just five days, better than a full public enquiry that took over eight months to complete in 1998. In addition to this, the Court of Appeal has actually strengthened the ruling by adding an injunction to the original ruling.

It has been stated right from the start that there was no intention by the claimants to interfere with the circuits “Core Activities”. However, it would appear that there is a complete lack of understanding over exactly what every motor racing circuits “Core Activities” consist of in the modern world.

Most circuits make as much, if not more, money from track days, experience days and corporate days than they do from actual racing activities. Therefore their “Core Activities” should actually be described as Motor Vehicle Speed events rather than Motor Sport events.

Sadly, we are being ruled by a judiciary that have little or no understanding of the real world and we are considered to be a nuisance, right up until the moment that these very same people want to sup Champagne in the comfort of the HSBC lounge at the British F1 Grand Prix. I am left looking forward to the first case brought by the neighbours of Cheltenham Race Course or Epsom Downs using this ridiculous precedent! We’ll see how they react to that little “side-effect” of this stupid ruling!

The circuit owners are doubtless now meeting to form a united strategy to confront this most serious threat to the Motor Sport industry, something that generates over £5 billion for the British economy and empoys thousands of people.

If the government is even considering letting Britain become Switzerland MkII (motorsport-free) it might be a good idea to look at the rest of the economy first;- Switzerland relies entirely on its banking sector. Looking at the complete corrupt and unscrupulous mess that is the British banking industry, do the law-makers really want to model private industry on that most dubious sector?

A challenge to this must come. Not just for the sake of Croft or the BARC, but for everyone that has ever been involved in the sport. Doing nothing is tantamount to collaborating with these modern-day pirates and is simply not an option.

“A collaborator is someone who feeds the crocodile hoping to be eaten last” – Winston Churchill 1939

The circuits, RAC-MSA, ACU, MCRCB, MRPC and MCI will need to come up with a plan of action fairly soon and when they do, it will be our responsibility to support them to the hilt."

Written by Thundersport promoter Dave Stewart.


Very interesting stuff! What worries me is the fact that town planners seems to forget that motorsport is legitimate.... sanctioned motorsport meetings, at least. What is the use if motorsport controlling federations doing their utmost to address the reduction of noise levels and it is being ignored by government and/or local authorities? It seems that foolish councillers and officials would rather side-up with two or three complianants.

This leaves me with more questions...say in the UK (or elsewhere), are the noise contol regulations of the motorsport federation in line with national (government) noise regulations? If not, is the latter regarded as supreme?

Any chance of a successful protest at a race meeting, if exluded due to non-compliance of max noise limits? Aspect like challenging the fact that a sound level meter is not calibrated or that the technical steward (noise control officer) is not qualified to perform his duties. What does the motorsport regulations in your countries mention in this regard??

Feel free to email me if you do not find do discuss this in "public". Many thanks.

#129 john aston

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 08:33

The case is nothing to do with planning and everything to do with private nuisance.If the activity at Croft had contravened the existing permissions then the claimants could have saved themselves the risk of losing their case by trying to get the Planning Authority to serve an enforcement notice. This is not about some judicial conspiracy to stop motor sport - it's about the collateral damage caused by a messy divorce and the fact that circuits are now in near constant use for testing and track days and therefore create noise for longer than they used to.

#130 Hieronymus

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 08:56

John, thanks

I am not referring to Croft, but with my previous post I try to point at a general perseption worldwide. Authorities always seem to have the upper hand, it does not matter what circuit owners, race controlling federations, etc do in an effort to reduce noise at race meetings.

#131 fines

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 09:56

Originally posted by Hieronymus
Authorities always seem to have the upper hand (...)

That's why they are called authorities!;)

Gentlemen, let's not forget that in democracies, everyone has his rights, and that noise IS an issue! You wouldn't believe what spoiled and bored teenagers get up to these days, even in very small towns such as the one I live in! :mad: And the Nürburgring is only a half hour's drive away! So, closing the circuits will do wonders for nocturnal noise levels in urban areas... :rolleyes:;) :(

#132 Rob Ryder

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 11:08

On our local TV News there was an item about the Croft decision, with interviews with residents from the local villages and farms. All seemed surprised by the outcome and see Croft as a benefit to the local area and not a 'blight'. The concensus was that 'this woman' will not be in the area for much longer because she has upset so many people with her selfish actions.

Many expressed concern at the loss of business due to the reduction/loss of activity at the racetrack, with a group of local businessmen (pubs/restaurants/B&Bs) threatening to sue the 'claimants' for loss of income!

It would not help Croft, but sure as hell would make ME feel better :lol:
Rob

#133 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 11:05

Originally posted by Rob Ryder


Many expressed concern at the loss of business due to the reduction/loss of activity at the racetrack, with a group of local businessmen (pubs/restaurants/B&Bs) threatening to sue the 'claimants' for loss of income!


Now that is a very interesting possibility and it may well help every venue in the long term.
A legal decision in favour of these local businesses. for loss of trade, would at the very least remove the 'nothing to lose everything to gain' aura from those who seek to benefit financially from such "noise" claims of this nature.

If I were a circuit owner/promotor I think I would be looking into this very closely indeed.

#134 john aston

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 17:14

What - suing somebody on the grounds they won a court action? Hmm - don't think so- but I am sure many would like to.

#135 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 17:41

Originally posted by john aston
What - suing somebody on the grounds they won a court action? Hmm - don't think so- but I am sure many would like to.


...on the grounds that the direct result of their action, which is a marked reduction in legitimate business from the circuit, may be shown to have caused actual hardship?

Who knows what some clever legal brain can devise? Look at the basis of the original case as an example....

#136 Kpy

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 17:57

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks


...on the grounds that the direct result of their action, which is a marked reduction in legitimate business from the circuit, may be shown to have caused actual hardship?

Who knows what some clever legal brain can devise? Look at the basis of the original case as an example....

One thing is certain. You can't sue someone for having successfully asserted their rights through the High Court. If you could it would deny the rule of law.