9 replies to this topic

[CVAndrw]

This bickering about Nelson Piquet, speed, intelligence and such got me going:

I’ve seen endless rankings, ratings and bitter debates about the all-time greatest drivers- Fangio, Clark, Senna, Nuvolari, on and on…but I wonder how people might rank the most intelligent drivers of all time? In going over names in my mind I noticed the absence of people like Moss and Amon (not that I'd ever say they lack brains; maybe just judgment?); seems like the drivers with the most brains do manage to snag at least one Championship, as opposed to the many great drivers whose skill is concentrated in their right feet.

My particular candidates would be, obviously: Fangio, Stewart, Lauda, Prost, the aforementioned Piquet, perhaps Brabham and even Schumacher, but just how and where would you rank them? And what’s the logic behind said rankings? I think it only fair and appropriate that all emotion be kept out of this debate; I expect this to be according to the strictest logic with exhaustive documentation or at least empirical proof.

Any one have any thoughts on the subject?

(By the way, I’ve seen lots of lists of the dumbest drivers of all time- they’re entertaining as hell, but let’s not get too distracted.)

[f li]

How do you measure smarts? - How about Palmer - he's an MD? or Donohue - he was a ME from Brown?

Do you want Chiron, whose quick wits kept him a win when he should have lost it?

How about Chapman, Hall and Penske, (hey, you said driver and forix has all of them listed) who, in one way or another given so much to the sport?

[Keir]

This is a real abstract thread.
If you want to talk smart race driver, I give you Chris Amon. Take away all the emotional "mumbo jumbo", and you have a driver that turned more garbage into workable race cars than any driver before or after him. Ferrari benefited for three seasons after Chris's departure. During the 70, 71, and 72 seasons there wasn't a single driver at Ferrari who could develop anything more than a bad attitude. Jacky Ickx, Clay Regazzoni, Arturo Merzario, they all put in the miles, but all together they didn't make up a good test driver. Mario Andretti was never around to give his imput.
1970 March-Ford, a less than ordinary car
that gave it's all when the Chris worked his magic.
1971 and 72 Matra, again a very ordinary car turned into the best handling car in the paddock. Remember Le Charade '72!!!!
1973 Tecno, third fastest in the rain at Monaco. Anyone else would been asleep in their hotel room, such was the Tecno nightmare.
1974 Amon AF101, all Chris needed was money and this one would have flown.
1975 and 76 Ensign, Mo Nunn still talks about Chris with reverence. When Chris left the team, Jacky Ickx couldn't even drive the car, it was so complex to set up.

Sounds like a smart driver to me!!!

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"I Was Born Ready"

[CVAndrw]

f li: And Mario Andretti supposedly multiplied his racing income many times over by legendarily shrewd stock market trading!

I get your drift- since it's both impossible and irrelevant to acquire I.Q. numbers on every human who's ever driven a racing car in anger, I should qualify myself by asking for opinions on which drivers have most successfully used their intelligence to achieve success in their racing careers- Amon is and was obviously a bright guy and a truly great driver, but how can his reputation and record ever be other than the unluckiest? I don’t really think his career can be an example of a driver using superlative judgment. Piquet, for all his flawless points scoring acumen, made at least one (and maybe two) really dumb political decisions that cost him at least one Championship and all but destroyed his career. Was Fangio's always being in the right car at the right time evidence of his genius, or was it partly luck? What about Lauda, who by force of personality and work ethic dragged first Ferrari and then McLaren out of near-mediocrity and into the dominant positions they enjoy today? For simplicity’s sake and to reflect my own prejudices I’d restrict myself to drivers who’ve achieved more than at least a single lucky win in an FIA World Championship GP, but a candidate as obvious as Mark Donohue certainly merits inclusion.

It's just something I've always thought about, and this group seems to have the grasp of history and mature judgment to render serious opinions. (End of bootlicking.)

[Art]

My Guess.

Would be Ayerton Senna! He hs been dead 5 years and still makes over $100,000,000.00 a year.

Art NX3L

[Ray Bell]

If being dead shows you're smart, no wonder you're chasing that nurse around.
I think you have to include G. Hill in the smarts list, and P. Hill got through it all without a scratch, so that's not too stupid, either.
Another that comes to mind is Tony Brooks, and I've heard Denny Hulme referred to as a "cash register driver,' ie. he drove harder if there was a real prospect of something coming of it.
But is that what we want to see?
Lauda certainly earns a look for what he did for Ferrari and McLaren, and also for not being given the chance at March, where they thought he didn't have the experience to override Peterson's ideas in setting up.

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Art]

Ray Bell

It wasn't Sennas fault that Williams neglagence killed him.

Art NX3L

[Ray Bell]

Read the string again, Art.
And anyway, do we know what killed him?
How's the nurse?

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Art]

Read the thread again smartest driver. Hmmm ,victorys,poles,master in the rain,three time world Champion. Invested name and money and takes care of a multatude of homeless children after he has been dead 5 years! I would say Ayerton Senna was a very smart man. And do we really know what killed Senna? I do-do you Ray?

Art NX3L

[Duane]

Racing strategy: Lauda (the 77 and 84 titles, Zandvoort 85), Brabham (I read your book you magnificent...Aussie ;) !) and G. Hill (Mr. Monaco in the days when the cars broke more often than the seals on champagne bottles).
Testing: Lauda & Surtees (Ferrari rebuilds, Honda victory and McLaren dominance)
Setup: Fangio (Maserati 250, the D50), Senna, Schumacher, Stewart, Prost, Piquet & Lauda.
Business: Stewart (Ford + JYS = cash = GP Team = nuff said), Lauda (Lauda Air)& Scheckter (FATS - ask Don).

Notice, I have avoided the question of outright talent, but tried to address areas where thought processes can benefit the driver in both racing and private life.

Anyway, it's all perspective, retrospective and certainly not objective - but not a single non-WDC in the bunch.


[This message has been edited by Duane (edited 03-17-2000).]