22 replies to this topic

[Nomad]

We hear a lot of talk in modern F1 of getting on the marbles. And this seems to have limited the drivers to one line on the track.
When did tyre compounds become such that they created 'marbles' and therefore only one apparent racing line?

[Ray Bell]

There has always, of course, been a tendency to 'wash' any dust, sand or debris on the track to the outside of the line through the bends. But the marbles of which you speak became predominant from about 1971 - as slicks started to get softer and roll rubber off more readily.
Enjoying the books?

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[FlagMan]

I guess one advantage of the new grooved rubber is that it should generate less marbles as the compound is much harder.

I remeber talking to the driver of one of the course cars at the British GP in about '96 who was complaining that having done a slow lap of Silverstone just after the F1 qualifying session, the car looked as if it had been fitted with slicks - the tyres had picked up so much rubber that it had filled in all the grooves - and to make things worse it had thrown the tyres out of balance so much that the car was almost undrivable because of steering shake.

Incidently - a new craze seems to have developed in the last few years - after the GP the marshals get endless requests from spectators for us to collect some of the marbles for them....

[This message has been edited by FlagMan (edited 03-24-2000).]

[Keir]

Nomad,
When I was racing in the lower formula ranks and made the occasional diversion off-line, the marbles were horrible. They were composed of all the different compounds and gave me even more of a vibration then the weather-beaten tracks themselves. After one session, we were scraping off the offending rubber from my tires, when a fellow racer called out, "Hey, that's good rubber you're taking off." Too bad we couldn't smooth it out!!!

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"I Was Born Ready"

[Art]

Marbles.

You would think that Mad Max would correct this. By making a rule that the exhaust would exit the side of the car in front of the rear tires. And the exhaust gasses would hit the track 20 inches out side of the rear tires. the gas pressure would clear a considerable area of Marbles. I guess.

Art

[Ray Bell]

Just can't stay away, eh?
Art - ask Flagman what he'd think of a constant stream of rubber marbles blown in his face as he goes about his job....
Nice to see you made another day, by the way.

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Art]

Ray bell.

They make safety glasses and resporators to take care of the Flagman. And there are a thousand people to replace him if he doesn't like it.

Art

[Art]

Ray Bell.

I could also put it the way they do on the Railroad. When the flagman is standing in the freezing rain. Tough S**t.

Art

[Ray Bell]

Art, just because you have a nurse to hold your hand doesn't mean others don't sometimes have a bad time. You have not real appreciation of what it's like to flag a race until you've done it for a meeting or three.... Come back when you have the experience.
And don't direct exhaust from unleaded fuelled engines at me, anyway!

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Art]

Ray Bell.

I would of thought that with your experience in the motor sports media. That you could of come up with a better answer than you did. Such as the hot gasses would cause problems during pit stops. Ray you are spending to much time thinking about the nurse and her big boobs.

Art

[Art]

And don't direct exhaust from unleaded fuelled engines at me, anyway!

I bet you wear a gas mask when you are driving in traffic.

Art

[Ray Bell]

I don't concern myself with either your nurse or gas masks, but I am quite concerned with your continued use of the word 'of' instead of 'have' - now, I know it's a bit late for you to go back to school, but this really is a little thing to learn and it will make you look so much smarter in the eyes of those reading this diatribe who have had some experience in correcting grammar.
So please, Art, try to remember - "Could have", "Would have" and such are correct, the use of "of" in place of "have" comes from people trying to sound upper class when they normally abbreviate to "Would've" and "could've".
In other words they are would-bes and not could-bes.
Now, can we get down to the serious stuff?
I don't think you could regulate this, for the designers would want to use the exhaust as they try to now as an aerodynamic aid. Also, in some designs (ie. 1967 Brabhams, H16 BRMs, 1968 Ferraris - and they could go this way again today) it would be impractical.

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Art]

Mr Bell.

Now that you want to get into mud slinging lets get it on. When I got on the board's I let it be known that my spelling was awful. And later said I regreted not being educated so if using of instead of have makes my diatribe undesirable so be it. And using of makes me sound like I want to be high class you are wrong. I live in a neighborhood where the neighbors walk around with there nose up in the air and I detest the SOBs. I live in a home worth $120,k and am looking out my window into a big inground pool instead of junk cars (Big stinking deal). And between the railroad and being the only child of a deceased father who was in the cabinet buissness for 40 years money means nothing to me. If the car brakes down we buy a new one. I get on the boards to kill time and talk racing and throw in some ideas to get things going on a board that was nearly dead. So if you resent me for this I will refer you to an old Railroad saying (Tough S**T)

Art

[Ray Bell]

Please don't misunderstand me, Art. I have noticed a number of others using this incorrect verbiage and I thought a correction might help all of them. I didn't mean to sling off at you - the nurse bit surely shows that! - or your upbringing.
In fact, the discussion about junkers and clunkers was because I read between the lines that you are a down to earth type of person like myself, and that particular aspect of my life (ie. neighbours interfering with the smooth running of it - complaining about the car I'm doing up in the backyard, that sort of thing) is top of mind at the moment.
Relax, Art, like most everybody else around here, I really appreciate your presence. Like I said to Nomad the other day, I notice that you post at all hours round the clock. Good for you, keep it up, but I beg you to correct this one little thing - dice the 'ofs' and put in 'haves,' and if you don't mind, the spelling of 'break' (as in break with tradition; break my heart, break the door down or break a baseball bat over one's head) is a little different to 'brake' as used when stopping one's car (or Garrett).
Just trying to help, Art, if one can't offer a little help to their old mates, what would the world be?

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Dennis David]

Gentlemen! As that famous philosopher, Rodney King, once said … can’t we all just get along?



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Regards,

Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/

[Art]

Mr Bell.

You misunderstand a lot of things! This board is here to discuss racing not english and spelling. You act like a young lad raised in the outback and was lucky enough to go to the big city and get an education. But when you returned home you put your educated self on a pedistal and look down at lesser educated peoople. Well let me tell you something the only person that will change this old un educated man. Is when the guy up above plugs my wretched ass in the ground. And Mr Bell you have just gotten a father to son ass chewing and I don't think you are smart enough to know it or understand what it was all about.

Art

[Ray Bell]

I have done my level best to be nice to you Art, to show you respect, to try and help you. I have then tried to explain what I was doing... but no, you don't want to know.
I was not in receipt of any great education, I dropped out of school at 15... I don't do any of those things you suggest.
But.... I do keep in mind something a friend once told me - to always try to be upbuilding in what you write or say.
Not to tear down, not to hurt. I would have thought that my one little correction would have been taken in stride.
Now, Art, if you want to continue this via email you can. Let's not plug up this thread with any more vitriol, let's just get along...okay?
Any comments about marbles, Nomad is keen to know more.

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[FlagMan]

Back to topic - thanks for the concern - I think?.

Max is going to solve the problem of throwing rubber and exhaust gases at us - we are going to be replaced by little blue and yellow lights in the cockpit - very disco - don't know yet who gets to press the buttons though...

Actually having been hit by a 1lb lump of rubber from a Group C Sports car I can assure you it bloody hurts.

As for exhaust gases - better the unleaded than the sort of toxic mixes that came off the turbo cars... burnt holes in the overalls that stuff.

[Art]

Mr Bell.

This has had nuthing to do with racing from the beginning. And as I didn't start the nit picking but I will put an end to it. The second part of my last post didn't register on you at all. So I will do what I have done very few times in my 66 years. This will be my last contact with you for any reason and I hope you will honor my wishes and not contact me for any reason.

Good luck At Whatever You Do.

Art

[Art]

FlagMan.

Sorry for the temporary distraction. Properly directed exhaust gasses seems the only practical way to widen the racing surface with marbles on the racing surface. I thought it was the only way when I first posted it and still feel that way. I'm sure that you as the FlagMan aren't going to stand on the edge of the track with a Broom and the flags in your hip pocket. Praying to God that no one looses controle.

Art

[FlagMan]

Marbles are not a new phenomena - I can remember in the early '70s, when I was a track marshal at Oulton Park, that during the luch break for an F5000 meeting, Brian Redman came down to the first corner to ask us if we could sweep the marbles off the track around the outside of the corner - 'coz he was starting on the outside of the front row and was expecting to have to drive off line at the start.

I'm not sure that exhaust gases would do much to move the marbles - I have never seen it happen, even from saloon cars that have side exiting exhausts.

[Ray Bell]

A pertinent question relating to the disco lights is the location of those operating them. If you're not on the scene, you don't have the appropriate input (visual and auditory) to correctly judge what signal to give. You, the flagman, are indispensible!

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Nomad]

I agree that someone needs to be on the scene to decide the correct flag to wave but when you consider the vast array of red(Ferrari) and yellow (Jordan) being attached to the fencing trackside it is entirely sensible to introduce a more modern system to alert drivers.
This does not negate Flagman's existence but rather renames him Warningman. He would of course still require his flags as we all know how reliable electronic systems can be.