70 replies to this topic

[jeze]

Recently I read the photo finish of the last edition of Autosport, and I was quite amazed by that loophole Ilmor managed to find for that race! If Nigel Beresford is watching, I'd like to ask if you were involved in the team at that race, and if Norbert Haug's statement of the enginges reaching 256 mph on the long straightaways while still accelerating is accurate? If you were, then what was the possibility for the engine to reach on a Bonneville type of straight, which is endless and used for speed records? By the way, the de Ferran lap in 2000 at Fontana also springs to mind. With an average at 241 mph despite two slowing corners, what was the top speed logged at that lap on the straight parts of the track? That must have been 400 kph plus as well? The speed of those cars sound helluva amazing to me, although I wonder why the "Indy" engine wasn't used for Michigan in 1994 as well, since the top speeds normally were even higher at MIS during that time? Was the engine undrivebale with that cubic size in the corners?

[fines]

Michigan was a CART event and had different engine rules from Indy (USAC).

[brabhamBT19]

Michigan had different engine rules to Indy. Those Indy rules had something to do with favouring Buicks. But that is all I know. Wait for the real experts to show. bye.

[jeze]

Michigan had different engine rules to Indy. Those Indy rules had something to do with favouring Buicks. But that is all I know. Wait for the real experts to show. bye.

OK, sounds strange that a series can have two sanctioning bodies, but the CART Series didn't survive, so perhaps that was inevitable

[Henri Greuter]

Michigan had different engine rules to Indy. Those Indy rules had something to do with favouring Buicks. But that is all I know. Wait for the real experts to show. bye.

Right.

Technically the engine was legal for CART Too but only on the same boost level as the other engines. Only at Indianapolis it had the boost advantage.
The rule was not so much for Buick's only. Buick had withdrawn officially in 1993 already. But Brayton engineering and menard had taken up the project.
The real hope of USAC with the rule had been to encourage other American engine builders, specialists in the field, to design their own engine with pushrod technology, since that was pretty much "American Hitech" (Pun a little bit intended this time)
Only Greenfield took up the challenge and fielded a 1993 Lola with such an engine in 1994 but it failed to qualify. But that were the kind of constructors USAC had in mind to envourage with this rule.

The best reads in print about this engine are two books of fellow member Karl Ludvigsen: "Prime Movers" about Ilmor and "Quicksilver Century" about Mercedes.
According these books, the maximum power output for the engine was 1024 hp but that was a value not reached at Indy. I have forgotten the exact figure within the books but I recall that the maximum used has been about 950 hp.
The engine had only about 4 months running time in which it had to be developed and in fact, it survived a 500 mile non-stop at michigan for the first time as late as early May. Since there was a massive power advantage already, Ilmor did not go for a maximum power advantage yet but settled for a lesser, but reliable masximum. A kind of "why go for 200 unreliable hp more if a reliable 150 hp more does the job too?


About the top straight speeds, don't be blinded. Indy is not all about straightline speeds.

Did you know that: when Arie Luyendijk clocked his 239.2 lap in 1996, he did not reach a 244 mph top speed? But the slowest of the corner speeds they got for him was over 237!!! And he drove a 1994 Reynard-XB that had about 825 or so HP.
The cornering and handling of that particular Reynard as Arie had set it up was so fantastic that the drop off speeds from top to cornerspeed were at a bare minimum. And he had a tow on the straights to help him get closer tot that 244.....

if the 1994 Penske had ever had such a kind of cornering behaviour, I think that USA would inmediately have stepped in and lowered the boost on the engine instantly because of safety reasons and whatever other reason they could think about to `rescue` the race from a Penske runaway.
Which it eventually became after all thought the final classifications don't do the car justice. It was dominant like few cars had ever been before in Indy history. the ones that were as dominant were De Palma in 1912 , Billy Arnold in 1930, Vukovich in 1953, Parmelli in 1967, Mario in 1987 and Michael in 1992.

I attended 1994 and I've cursed that 500I and all it stood for then. It ruined what could have been a great event in Indy history.
Nowadays, looking back on it, I am fascinated by it, respect it and I consider myself lucky to have seen this piece of motor racing history with my own eyes.

Henri

[Tony Matthews]

Recently I read the photo finish of the last edition of Autosport, and I was quite amazed by that loophole Ilmor managed to find for that race!

I don't think it qualifies as a 'loop-hole' it was a small but significant change in the regulations that Mario Illien picked up, and Ilmor had to hope that no one else either noticed it or realised it's potential.

[Henri Greuter]

I don't think it qualifies as a 'loop-hole' it was a small but significant change in the regulations that Mario Illien picked up, and Ilmor had to hope that no one else either noticed it or realised it's potential.

Rule that allowed clean sheet of paper designed engines with 2 valves per cylinder, pushrod, in-block single cam, (thus no stock block heritage required anymore!!!) was alreaday there since 1991!


Henri

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think de Ferran's closed course world record at Fontana was more impressive, engine wise. Consider the drag from that Handford wing and he went faster than Gugelmin had a few years prior with a 'streamlined' car. I remember rumours about 1000hp Fontana-spec Honda engines during the end of their CART tenure. I don't know if it was feasible under those regs but I wouldn't put it past TRD and HPD. Were there other examples of single sided turbo cars or was that just Montoya in 2000 at Motegi? What an odd sound that made.

[Henri Greuter]

I think de Ferran's closed course world record at Fontana was more impressive, engine wise. Consider the drag from that Handford wing and he went faster than Gugelmin had a few years prior with a 'streamlined' car. I remember rumours about 1000hp Fontana-spec Honda engines during the end of their CART tenure. I don't know if it was feasible under those regs but I wouldn't put it past TRD and HPD. Were there other examples of single sided turbo cars or was that just Montoya in 2000 at Motegi? What an odd sound that made.

I wished I could se pictures of that singleside turbo engine car without the engine cover installed


Henri

[Ross Stonefeld]

Here's a little of Vasser's exhaust from that weekend

http://speedcenter.c...ifying_big.html

[sblick]

I remeber being at MIS in the early 90's and the announcer was saying they were gettin over 250 on the back straight. Whether or not that is true is open for debate. I was a t Fontana when they were running close to 240 and that was flat out spectacular. Almost bordered on boring they were going so fast you couldn't tell who was going by.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Well at Fontana and Michigian with the Handford wing you could get some really high rpm numbers slipstreaming down the back straights. Drivers reported some big speed in practice sessions if they timed their 'leapfrogging' correctly.

[Tony Matthews]

Rule that allowed clean sheet of paper designed engines with 2 valves per cylinder, pushrod, in-block single cam, (thus no stock block heritage required anymore!!!) was alreaday there since 1991!


Henri

I didn't know when the regs were changed to allow non stock-based designs, Henri, so my post was a bit vague! Thanks. I know MI started work on the design in '93.

[TrackDog]

Recently I read the photo finish of the last edition of Autosport, and I was quite amazed by that loophole Ilmor managed to find for that race! If Nigel Beresford is watching, I'd like to ask if you were involved in the team at that race, and if Norbert Haug's statement of the enginges reaching 256 mph on the long straightaways while still accelerating is accurate? If you were, then what was the possibility for the engine to reach on a Bonneville type of straight, which is endless and used for speed records? By the way, the de Ferran lap in 2000 at Fontana also springs to mind. With an average at 241 mph despite two slowing corners, what was the top speed logged at that lap on the straight parts of the track? That must have been 400 kph plus as well? The speed of those cars sound helluva amazing to me, although I wonder why the "Indy" engine wasn't used for Michigan in 1994 as well, since the top speeds normally were even higher at MIS during that time? Was the engine undrivebale with that cubic size in the corners?

http://www.trackforu...ad.php?t=123934



Dan

[ZOOOM]

http://www.trackforu...ead.php?t=36541

This one is even better!
Lots of comments by Arie's engineer (boffin)!

ZOOOM

[Nigel Beresford]

Recently I read the photo finish of the last edition of Autosport, and I was quite amazed by that loophole Ilmor managed to find for that race! If Nigel Beresford is watching, I'd like to ask if you were involved in the team at that race, and if Norbert Haug's statement of the enginges reaching 256 mph on the long straightaways while still accelerating is accurate?

Yes, I was there...I was engineering Tracy's car. It's certainly true that we were geared for that sort of speed. As I mentioned before in various places, the PC23 with the pushrod engine didn't handle very well because the huge torque of the engine gave power understeer. Henri Greuter has done a fair bit of research on the subject of the "E" engine (as it was known internally) and is due to publish an article in the near future.

I don't know how fast Gil's car was on the straight at Fontana - I don't have the data to hand - but obviously it's a record of which Penske Cars was very proud.

Thanks

Nigel

[weisler]

I think de Ferran's closed course world record at Fontana was more impressive, engine wise. Consider the drag from that Handford wing and he went faster than Gugelmin had a few years prior with a 'streamlined' car. I remember rumours about 1000hp Fontana-spec Honda engines during the end of their CART tenure. I don't know if it was feasible under those regs but I wouldn't put it past TRD and HPD. Were there other examples of single sided turbo cars or was that just Montoya in 2000 at Motegi? What an odd sound that made.

Can you guys elaborate a little more on these "single sided turbo" engines? This is the first I've heard of them!

[Tony Matthews]

Can you guys elaborate a little more on these "single sided turbo" engines? This is the first I've heard of them!

Yes, I was wondering about that!

[Nigel Beresford]

Can you guys elaborate a little more on these "single sided turbo" engines? This is the first I've heard of them!

Normally the exhaust from both banks of cylinders is brought together to drive the turbocharger. In this instance one bank drives the turbo and the other bank is exhausted through a "conventional" tail pipe.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I can't remember what the benefit was supposed to be. I recall it meant there was significant lag which is why they only used it on the oval(s) and was only a major problem on restarts, but I assume was counter-balanced by whatever power advantage it brought.

Still, 2000 was fun for the "How many laps will Montoya lead this weekend, and which part of the car will fail" drinking game.

[Nigel Beresford]

I can't remember what the benefit was supposed to be. I recall it meant there was significant lag which is why they only used it on the oval(s) and was only a major problem on restarts, but I assume was counter-balanced by whatever power advantage it brought.

Still, 2000 was fun for the "How many laps will Montoya lead this weekend, and which part of the car will fail" drinking game.

One bank of cylinders is enough to drive the turbo sufficiently to build the boost required. By running the other bank with an open exhaust you get reduced pumping losses and hence more power. As you say, turbo lag is worse because you don't have the exhaust flow rate to spin up the turbo as quickly as in the normal arrangement.

[Tony Matthews]

Fascinating, Nigel, thanks.

[Ross Stonefeld]

It was also fairly loud.

[Henri Greuter]

One bank of cylinders is enough to drive the turbo sufficiently to build the boost required. By running the other bank with an open exhaust you get reduced pumping losses and hence more power. As you say, turbo lag is worse because you don't have the exhaust flow rate to spin up the turbo as quickly as in the normal arrangement.

I suppose that the thermal conditions for the cylinder banks were different too. more built up of heat within the cylinder bank with turbo due to the restrictive character of the turbo while the other bank didn't have to cope with all of this.

As for beiong more loud, that's logic. one bank of cylinders not muffled by a turbo any longer.
Must have been a delight for the number of race fans out there who insist on loud barking racing engines.

I attended St Louis 2000, Better have to look through my pictures again to see if I have any approval of the system being used over there as well!


henri

[weisler]

I suppose that the thermal conditions for the cylinder banks were different too. more built up of heat within the cylinder bank with turbo due to the restrictive character of the turbo while the other bank didn't have to cope with all of this.

As for beiong more loud, that's logic. one bank of cylinders not muffled by a turbo any longer.
Must have been a delight for the number of race fans out there who insist on loud barking racing engines.

I attended St Louis 2000, Better have to look through my pictures again to see if I have any approval of the system being used over there as well!


henri

Very fascinating stuff. Was the turbo still housed between the engine and gear box? You'd think there would be problems with un equal back pressure for the different banks.

Very cool, thanks for sharing!

[Henri Greuter]

Very fascinating stuff. Was the turbo still housed between the engine and gear box? You'd think there would be problems with un equal back pressure for the different banks.

Very cool, thanks for sharing!

Oops,

I haven't shared anything regarding the single bank turbocharged engines yet other than expressing some thoughts about what comes with it!
I would love to see pictures of that engine installed in a car.
In fact, I know about its existance since a few days. This must be one of the better hidden secrets within CART racing that I have heard about.

As well as the data about how Menard cheated itself to the pole in 1995 and supposedly paid dearly for it in the race when USAC took revenge with giving them poor pop-offs for the race itself.....

Henri

[Ross Stonefeld]

I question certain bits of that Trackforum thread...


The single sided turbo wasn't much of a secret, unless you mean its development. It was very obvious when it was unveiled because it was a very different sound to the other cars and it was commented on during the TV broadcasts and people tried to get photographs of it. I don't know that it was that much of a 'trick' either because it did have some downsides, I think it was primarily Toyota's desperation at winning Motegi which no Japanese manufacturer had yet done, and it was a Honda owned circuit afterall. Toyota had signed a deal with Newman-Haas but could not join them until 2001 because of their Ford arrangement so also did a deal with Ganassi beginning in 2000. Having Ganassi and Montoya was a very important season for them and they were throwing all their resources at winning. They had not yet won a race by Motegi, but would win a few races later in Milwaukee.

[Henri Greuter]

I question certain bits of that Trackforum thread...


The single sided turbo wasn't much of a secret, unless you mean its development. It was very obvious when it was unveiled because it was a very different sound to the other cars and it was commented on during the TV broadcasts and people tried to get photographs of it. I don't know that it was that much of a 'trick' either because it did have some downsides, I think it was primarily Toyota's desperation at winning Motegi which no Japanese manufacturer had yet done, and it was a Honda owned circuit afterall. Toyota had signed a deal with Newman-Haas but could not join them until 2001 because of their Ford arrangement so also did a deal with Ganassi beginning in 2000. Having Ganassi and Montoya was a very important season for them and they were throwing all their resources at winning. They had not yet won a race by Motegi, but would win a few races later in Milwaukee.

As for questioning that Trackforum, there are a few things a bit obscure. But it would explain why the Menards were not a factor on race day yet again. Assuming that the Menards were as good as they were believed to be. There are a few strange things about it.
But on one occasion that I spoke Arie, he didn't go into details but mentioned something that he knew that something had been going on in 1995 of which he rhater didn not want to be a part. And that it was a factor in his decision not wanting to stay with Menard.

As for the single turbo engine, i had never heard of it yet, for me it is new. Maybe within the USA it got more press coverage.
But It is a nice job and an interesting story for sure.

Henri

[brabhamBT19]

Why Penske didnt continue to run this engine in 1995 Indy500 as well?

[RA Historian]

Why Penske didnt continue to run this engine in 1995 Indy500 as well?

Because USAC, having been "burned" in 1994 by Penske, changed the rules so that the engine was not eligible in that form. I am sure that Henri or Nigel can be much more specific than me on this.
Tom

Edited by RA Historian, 06 July 2009 - 12:35.

[B Squared]

Sorry, not Nigel or Henri here, but I think that this page from, the now defunct On Track magazine spells things out pretty well. This is from September 9, 1994 - Volume 14 Number 17. You hardly ever hear of Mr. Roger Penske P.O.'ed in a public situation, but he certainly was here. I'm a bit short of time this morning, or I would have typed out a transcript - hope this answers a few questions.

Brian

Edited by B Squared, 06 July 2009 - 17:21.

[RA Historian]

Because USAC, having been "burned" in 1994 by Penske, changed the rules so that the engine was not eligible in that form. I am sure that Henri or Nigel can be much more specific than me on this.
Tom

....or Brian too!

[Tony Matthews]

....or Brian too!

Well, I hope the transcript arrives to fill what is now a gaping hole, I only skimmed it, and I would like the chance of reading it more carefully!

Ooops! It's back. As you were...

It's gone again! This is quite exciting...

Edited by Tony Matthews, 06 July 2009 - 20:07.

[Tony Matthews]

I just love this engine, and the story of its clandestine design and manufacture, and it's one and only appearance to win, is one of Motor Racing's great sagas.

[B Squared]

Penske Rips Boost Change On Track Sept. 9, 1994

Roger Penske unloaded on the Indianapolis Motor Speedway president Tony George; the United States Auto Club (USAC); and the newly created Indy Racing League, scheduled to begin operation in 1996, after engine specifications for the new series were announced on Aug. 10 in Indianapolis. The Indy Racing League announced a 2.2-liter, purpose-built racing engine formula will be used by the new series from 1996 - 2000.

But it was a ruling by USAC regarding the 209 cubic-inch Ilmor built pushrod Mercedes-Benz engine in next year's Indianapolis 500 that outraged the Marlboro Team Penske owner. Just 58 days after USAC announced it would cut the boost on the Mercedes-Benz from 55 inches to 52, the sanctioning body that controls the Indianapolis 500 announced it was cutting the boost even further to 48 inches, and the engine configuration will be outlawed altogether beginning with the 1996 Indianapolis 500.

Penske was livid when he arrived at Mid-Ohio on Aug. 12, calling USAC "incapable of running the Indianapolis 500, let alone the Indy Racing League" and that the latest engine rule regarding the 209 cubic-inch engine was "politically motivated."

"Tony George needs to determine what he wants to be - a track promoter, a rules maker or president of his own racing series," Penske said. "Until he makes that determination, we're going to see ridiculous rules changes, just like what USAC announced on Wednesday. And I'm not even going to comment on the 2.2-liter engine, I'm talking about what they did to us on the 209 pushrod."

"USAC can't even run the Indianapolis 500, so how are they going to be expected to run the Indy Racing League? To have the Indianapolis Motor Speedway contract its race out to USAC and to have the Indy Racing League contract its series out to USAC is absolutely, totally ridiculous. This makes almost as much sense as NASCAR contracting IMSA to officiate its series."

"How big of a joke would it be to have IMSA run the NASCAR Winston Cup Series? Well, that's how big of a joke it would be to have USAC contracted to officiate the Indy Racing League."

"I"m as upset about this as anything I've ever experienced in racing. Somebody needs to tell them (George, the Speedway, USAC and the IRL). Somebody needs to tell them. Well, I'm going to tell them."

Penske is a 25 percent shareholder in the racing engine company, Ilmor Engineering, which not only builds the current 2.65-liter, purpose-built racing engine that is used in the IndyCar series, but also built the Mercedes-Benz 209 pushrod engine. "When they made their announcement on June 13 that the boost on the Mercedes-Benz would be cut from 55 to 52, we immediately began development on next year's package and took orders from some of our customers who wanted to use the engine package next season," Penske said. "We had 30 engine blocks and 30 heads casted and ready to go. Now, those engine blocks and heads are useless and we have to absorb the loss because USAC decided to change their mind after telling us the 52-inch boost reduction was their final decision on the 209 pushrod."

"You tell me what took place in the 58 days since they made that announcement regarding that engine. Nothing but politics, that is what happened - nothing but politics. This whole thing is nothing but politics and it's going to cost people a lot of money."

Ilmor announced they had several customers who were going to purchase the 209 pushrod for next year's Indianapolis 500, including Tony Bettenhausen, Jim Hall and Rick Galles. Penske vowed he isn't taking the USAC decision lightly and said that he will build an engine similar to the Buick stock-block powerplant for next year's Indianapolis 500.

"There are plenty of Buick engine blocks available and I'm considering building an engine with that configuration for the Indianapolis 500," Penske said, his voice filling with anger. "We proved this year we can undertake a major project and succeed, so we might just come back next year with a Buick-type engine and win with that. We proved we could do it this year, and I'm sure we could do it again next year, just to prove a point to USAC and Tony George."



I hope this is easier to read than the posted, in haste, story. Sorry for the earlier, unintelligible tease.

Brian

[fbarrett]

Friends:

Having listened to the Indy 500 on the radio since the mid-1950s and watching it on tv, I finally made the pilgrimage in 1994. Since I was then writing for and editing a magazine on Mercedes-Benz, the sudden announcement of the pushrod engine (in April, I recall) added special zest. Getting press credentials was a major hassle, but while waiting in line for them I met Chris Economaki. The magazine's photographer, Roy Query, insisted that we get in at 3 or 4 AM for a good spot in the Turn 1 shooting gallery, which later saw some "photographers" sunning themselves or snapping at cars doing 200 mph with Instamatics. I'll never forget walking through Gasoline Alley, shooting photos right down on the grid before the start, and watching poor old Mary Hulman being practically lifted into position to utter the famous words.

The race was, for me, almost an anti-climax. Given the tepid cheers at the end, it seemed that most fans were not as happy as they might have been had another team won with a more conventional engine. Had Emmo won instead of Al Unser Jr., they may have been even less happy. We had prepared an article on prior Mercedes-Benz history at Indy and got the story of the 1994 race into our next issue by working 16-hour days.

Months later, at a press visit to the Penske shops in Reading, I saw the small separate garage where the engine had been first developed--away from the main shop for the sake of secrecy. When the engine was effectively barred from competition, I actually tried to buy one as a piece of history. I would have settled for a valve cover or even just a single pushrod, but no one would hear of it! (Does anyone still have any bits?) I highly recommend either of Karl's excellent books.

Frank

Edited by fbarrett, 06 July 2009 - 21:55.

[B Squared]

Given the tepid cheers at the end, it seemed that most fans were not as happy as they might have been had another team won with a more conventional engine. Had Emmo won instead of Al Unser Jr., they may have been even less happy.

Frank

With all due respect, I sure don't recall my 27th Indianapolis 500 in a row (at that time) with this stated lack of glee. Thinking I must have been at a race in a parallel universe that day, I pulled out the race tape and watched the last twenty laps to see how I could be so wrong. Well, I don't think my remembrances were off the mark. The place went crazy when Al Jr. took the lead after Emerson stuffed it in the turn four wall. To quote Sam Posey, doing commentary for ABC Television,"You should hear the crowd." Pull out a copy of the tape for yourself - they weren't booing. Paul Page, Danny Sullivan and "Uncle" Bobby Unser all comment at the finish about everyone in the crowd is on their feet cheering, waving their arms, and waving their hats. The visual confirms their spoken words. The crowd loved Al Unser Jr. at that point in time - they were thrilled to death for him. They didn't seem to care what engine was in that car, nor the car's owner. I implore each and every one who reads this to look for yourself. Let's please not distort things. Thanks for your time.

Brian

P.S. If you still have contact with Roy Query, please pass on my family's best regards. He spent time with us photographing my Dad's Duesenberg Model "J" for Automobile Quarterly and their epic book on the Duesenberg marque a number of years ago.

Edited by B Squared, 06 July 2009 - 23:23.

[Nigel Beresford]

Months later, at a press visit to the Penske shops in Reading, I saw the small separate garage where the engine had been first developed--away from the main shop for the sake of secrecy. When the engine was effectively barred from competition, I actually tried to buy one as a piece of history. I would have settled for a valve cover or even just a single pushrod, but no one would hear of it! (Does anyone still have any bits?) I highly recommend either of Karl's excellent books.

Frank

I have a pushrod and a piston and, no, I wouldn't sell them. The tragic thing is the amount of stuff that just went in the skip behind the shop in Reading. Nowadays it would be crushed before disposal, but back then it was just tossed in the skip.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 06 July 2009 - 23:58.

[Tony Matthews]

(Does anyone still have any bits?)

Yes, but not much!

[Tony Matthews]

Pull out a copy of the tape for yourself -

One of only about four tapes I still posess, and now no machine to play it on! Is it available on DVD?

[Nigel Beresford]

Yes, but not much!

Jeez, Tony, don't you ever sleep?

[Tony Matthews]

Jeez, Tony, don't you ever sleep?

Uh? What's for breakfast, mum? Hello Nigel, you still up too?

[Nigel Beresford]

Uh? What's for breakfast, mum? Hello Nigel, you still up too?

Yes, but I came over to North Carolina yesterday so it's only just past 8 PM

[B Squared]

One of only about four tapes I still posess, and now no machine to play it on! Is it available on DVD?

I've seen race recap dvd's for sale in the IMS Museum gift shop. They have highlights of most years for sale, even though they are not showing up on their website. At least, I can't find them at this time. If it's something that you would like to have and cannot locate - let me know and I'll burn you a copy. I think I even have the Victory Banquet from that year too.

Brian

[Tony Matthews]

Yes, but I came over to North Carolina yesterday so it's only just past 8 PM

Well, have a nice evening!

[B Squared]

Nigel - I saw Will on Speed's Wind Tunnel last night. Also I noted that Mr. Penske is scheduled for next week. I look forward to hearing his thoughts on the world of racing, as usual.

Will came off quite well, IMO, soft-spoken and gracious. I wish you and the Team well in your upcoming races together.

Sincerely, Brian

[Nigel Beresford]

Nigel - I saw Will on Speed's Wind Tunnel last night. Also I noted that Mr. Penske is scheduled for next week. I look forward to hearing his thoughts on the world of racing, as usual.

Will came off quite well, IMO, soft-spoken and gracious. I wish you and the Team well in your upcoming races together.

Sincerely, Brian

Thanks, that's very kind. He's very keen to get going. It was excruciating for him to be a spectator at the 'Glen.

[brabhamBT19]

Penske Rips Boost Change On Track Sept. 9, 1994



I hope this is easier to read than the posted, in haste, story. Sorry for the earlier, unintelligible tease.

Brian

No problem,

Thank you for the effort

[Henri Greuter]

I suppose that the thermal conditions for the cylinder banks were different too. more built up of heat within the cylinder bank with turbo due to the restrictive character of the turbo while the other bank didn't have to cope with all of this.

As for beiong more loud, that's logic. one bank of cylinders not muffled by a turbo any longer.
Must have been a delight for the number of race fans out there who insist on loud barking racing engines.

I attended St Louis 2000, Better have to look through my pictures again to see if I have any approval of the system being used over there as well!


henri

I found one picture of a Target Ganassi car at St Louis Garteway of which I suspect it was indeed a single side turbo.


Henri

[Henri Greuter]

Sorry, not Nigel or Henri here, but I think that this page from, the now defunct On Track magazine spells things out pretty well. This is from September 9, 1994 - Volume 14 Number 17. You hardly ever hear of Mr. Roger Penske P.O.'ed in a public situation, but he certainly was here. I'm a bit short of time this morning, or I would have typed out a transcript - hope this answers a few questions.

Brian

[/img]

Don't apologize Brian. I (and I'm sure, many others) appreciate your contributions in a number of threads very, very much.
And you have more inside looks then I so you do have a headstart on me.

henri

Edited by Henri Greuter, 07 July 2009 - 08:45.