138 replies to this topic

[ray b]

Would his successor ever be anything but a ventriloquist's dummy with Max's hand up his back working his mouth?

no not max's hand
B E is the one who put max in place
and B E will want the dummy to be his guy

[David M. Kane]

royalblue0:

Good question since we are not talking about a legal and democratic process. Maybe that just another reason why FOTA needs to ditch both MM and BE AND contest the whole legality of the FIA with the EU. It's not possible to play nice with these two, they need to be taken out once and for all.

[royalblue0]

royalblue0:

Good question since we are not talking about a legal and democratic process. Maybe that just another reason why FOTA needs to ditch both MM and BE AND contest the whole legality of the FIA with the EU. It's not possible to play nice with these two, they need to be taken out once and for all.

You're right. If FOTA wishes to stick to its stated aims for the sport, then the only way I can see it being either able, or allowed to achieve this is by a totally fresh start.

[royalblue0]

no not max's hand
B E is the one who put max in place
and B E will want the dummy to be his guy

I have a feeling that if Bernie is the puppet master, he won't be any too happy with his Max puppet at the moment. Unless he has plans to manage FOTA's commercial side for them.

[just me again]

Thanks a lot for transcripting D.M.N.

[J2NH]

FIA owns the F1 Championship, Bernie (or CVC rather) owns the commercial rights. I don't see the teams having any right to either of FIA's and CVC'c stakes. Lets say F1 would have been so lucrative that the teams in fact would have been making money on the racing itself through sponsors, would it have been right for Bernie to request that the teams would pay CVC? Or would it have been right for FIA to require the teams to pay an ever increasing amount of money depending on their commercial success? If the teams want more of the pie, they can go and buy the rights (if the competition laws would admit, but I am sure there would be some sort of structure making that possible without locking out new teams).

Quite right. FOTA has no claims to the FIA or CVS's stakes and I don't think they have ever stated they did. What they have done is stated they are unhappy with the current governance and the distribution of profits and as a result of the unwillingness of the FIA to give in to their demands they have chosen to part ways and run their own series.

Good for them and this is the best fix to their problem. They are not threatening to sue, they are walking off of the playing field with their heads held high. This is how the game is played. The problem for Max and Bernie is that they now have no product to market, at least not at the current level, and they are whining like little children about it. Let the marketplace and the FANS determine which series they want to follow and support.

They are doing what MAX suggested they do, if you don't like the rules start your own series. Publish your entry list for 2010 MAX and MOVE ON.

GAME, SET, MATCH FOTA!

Edited by J2NH, 21 June 2009 - 01:04.

[Broadway]

I forgot that: Thanks a lot D.M.N

I think that this situation is a microcosmos example of what is wrong with our world. There is people with power that is not suited for having this power and even if this is recognized by powers that should normally be stronger, it is not enough to change the situation. They just sit there. Mosley. Mugabe. Khadaffi. Ahmadejinad (ok, Seyed Ali Khamane). Kim Jong-il. Than Shwe.

Well, at least two of them are getting some decent slapping at the moment.

[Muz Bee]

Thanks for the transcript DMN.
With a piece of one-sided tirade against an enemy characterised as "loonies" it's no wonder Max has not been able to facilitate useful solutions for many years. His idea of leadership is more akin to the headmaster at an old English public school with undertones of physical punishment. His piece shows how intractable the FIA - FOTA debate is going to be while he is there. When his barrister speak loosens up he slips into his true ideology of "his" property. I am not going to wade through it again because it is all so tiresomely Max. He treats F1 as his personal plaything and the performers are dispensible loonies. "we don't need Ferrari" etc and then threatens them from going away to do their own thing.

Nobody in their right mind would paint the teams as a saintly mob but the conciliatory noises from them sound in stark contrast to that pile of self-righteous bovine faeces.

[royalblue0]

Thanks for the transcript DMN.
With a piece of one-sided tirade against an enemy characterised as "loonies" it's no wonder Max has not been able to facilitate useful solutions for many years. His idea of leadership is more akin to the headmaster at an old English public school with undertones of physical punishment. His piece shows how intractable the FIA - FOTA debate is going to be while he is there. When his barrister speak loosens up he slips into his true ideology of "his" property. I am not going to wade through it again because it is all so tiresomely Max. He treats F1 as his personal plaything and the performers are dispensible loonies. "we don't need Ferrari" etc and then threatens them from going away to do their own thing.

Nobody in their right mind would paint the teams as a saintly mob but the conciliatory noises from them sound in stark contrast to that pile of self-righteous bovine faeces.

Beautifully put, if I may say so

[Velocifer]

Yes indeed.

And for Mosley to have the nerve to talk about posturing, power games etc when it is just double-speak at its worst.

Good on Jake for not fawning like most media does these days.

[HP]

Where is the new team list that on Friday Max Mosley promised to put up by Saturday?

Seriously what can I expect from a guy that makes a promise about a simple list, and doesn't deliver it?

[Spa95]

Where is the new team list that on Friday Max Mosley promised to put up by Saturday?

Seriously what can I expect from a guy that makes a promise about a simple list, and doesn't deliver it?

Preparations for the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship continue but publication of the final 2010 entry list will be put on hold while the FIA asserts its legal rights.

http://www.fia.com/e...ta_and_fia.aspx

[F1Johnny]

Max is spot on about somebody trying to take what´s not theirs. What amazes me is that there are people on here who think he should just surrender what he and Bernie have built up over the past 20 years. You might not like the fact that they own and control F1, but that is not the point. They do. Live with it. If FOTA want to be an effective influence in the greater scheme of things, they would be well advised to remember the old saying, slowly, slowly catch the monkey.

Max owns and controls F1 ex Rhodie? If so, I really hope that FOTA gets him kicked out on his ass. How can the frickin regulator build and own the series which he has been employed to regulate. Therein lies the problem. Max really does think he built and owns F1. At least Bernie can lay some claim to building it up to what it is today, but Max is in no such position to make such a claim. You seem to think so.

Are you really saying that Max, the head regulator has more claim to F1 than the teams that have been their for decades, poured billions into the sport, employ over 10,000, the teams that fans come to see, that sponsors clamour to pump money into and TV fighting to broadcast, the drivers that pay exorbitant super license fees. One man, Max over the collective contribution of FOTA? Seriously ex Rhodie? It is like saying that the head of the SEC owns the securities industry in the US.

Max is there to set the framework within which F1 operates and let it run. He under no circumstances owns it or built it. If it were anyone else in that role, F1 would be up and running as well as it is now. But better regulated of course. Unfortunately Max does think he built F1 and owns F1. FOTA is just attempting to set things right.

[Ross Stonefeld]

F1 is probably the exception rather than the rule, most championships are run by the owner and regulator.

[Chezrome]

I agree. I got the impression from the interview that the reporter was in some kind of awe of Mosley and I notice that he even severely fluffed up his questions several times. There was no occasion where Mosley was pressed with questions a la Paxman. What the BBC don't realise is that the majority of viewers want to see someone really taken to task for this - the 'FOTA rules' banners and T-shirts prove this because people are even going to these kind of lengths to show their anger.

Instead we have a reporter fawning over Mosley an other reporters making do with Bernie's typical 'I don't know' response to every question. The BBC reporters may well be thinking they are so lucky that they have the privilege to speak to Mosley an Bernie ( ) but the reality is that they look unprofessional on-air. More to the point, the viewers will notice that they are not doing them service.

As I have already mentioned in this thread, one question about Mosley's legal action is how he can justify suing FOTA when he never sued the GPWC but this was never asked. How about asking him the general matter of how reasonable it is for a governing body to sue its participants or why the FIA let Ecclestone get away with F1's rights for just a few million dollars per year. 'Answer the question Mr Mosley' is what I want to hear.

You are confusing politeness with humility. The BBC interviewer, as far as I read the transcript, asked the questions that needed to be asked. And gave Mosley the opportunity to answer. The interviewer asked Mosley three times if him leaving the FIA would not possible solve the crisis. And ofcourse Mosley did not anwser that. What should the interviewer have done? Twist his arm?

You don't have a problem witht the contents of the interview, you only think that. What you call 'fluffing' up is how people in the real world talk to eachother. It is a little bit different from bulletinboards and televisionscreens. I admire Jeremy Paxman, but his method is not always the best way.

[peroa]

I guess things are ready for round 2:

Stephen Sackur vs Max Mosley

[Muz Bee]

What they want is a Formula 1 World Championship - but belonging to them. It's a bit of tug of war but in the end, because it is ours and the commercial rights are Bernie's, we will win the tug of war and they will then come and race in the World Championship as normal.

It took Mosley a few questions before he let his stiff upper lip slip and revert to what I believe is more along the lines of how he thinks.
Statesmanlike he isn't and this quote shows how F1 is, in his mind, his property and Bernie's.

[tris]

You don't thnk it is relevant that he pretends to be a Nazi prison guard? Really?

No... What he chooses to do in his spare time is his affair. What is more relevant is the way he he runs the sport that we all love.

[HP]

http://www.fia.com/e...ta_and_fia.aspx

Thanks, didn't see that one

[Mr M0by]

I guess things are ready for round 2:

Stephen Sackur vs Max Mosley

I've just watched the 2007 end-of-season interview. Yes, I could see him giving Max more of a 'hard talking' to but in the 2007 one, although you could describe it as a 'grilling' Max is completely comfortable with the direction of the questioning (McLaren bad, Spending not sustainable). I'd argue it was more a chance for Max to further espouse what he had been saying for months under the illusion of an interview. I think it less likely he'd make himself available for such an interview about FOTA, if he thought the questioning might be more difficult.

[Ryongsyong]

Max is spot on about somebody trying to take what´s not theirs. What amazes me is that there are people on here who think he should just surrender what he and Bernie have built up over the past 20 years. You might not like the fact that they own and control F1, but that is not the point. They do. Live with it. If FOTA want to be an effective influence in the greater scheme of things, they would be well advised to remember the old saying, slowly, slowly catch the monkey.

I can only assume you're living in a world where the teams are trying to take over F1; in the world the rest of us live in they want to start a new series.

By your definition a coup d'état is a group of people forming a rival political party. It isn't.

[Madras]

I can only assume you're living in a world where the teams are trying to take over F1; in the world the rest of us live in they want to start a new series.

By your definition a coup d'état is a group of people forming a rival political party. It isn't.

Well said.

[TimEaston]

You are confusing politeness with humility. The BBC interviewer, as far as I read the transcript, asked the questions that needed to be asked. And gave Mosley the opportunity to answer. The interviewer asked Mosley three times if him leaving the FIA would not possible solve the crisis. And ofcourse Mosley did not anwser that. What should the interviewer have done? Twist his arm?

You don't have a problem witht the contents of the interview, you only think that. What you call 'fluffing' up is how people in the real world talk to eachother. It is a little bit different from bulletinboards and televisionscreens. I admire Jeremy Paxman, but his method is not always the best way.

I thought that Jake Humphrey asked all the correct questions. I just feel he should have probed Bernie on Max's comments about the loonies. Max might think FOTA is run by loonies but you don't just say that in public.

Edited by TimEaston, 21 June 2009 - 11:52.

[potmotr]

RTL just showed a long interview with Mosley, conducted by Niki Lauda.

Mosley speaks incredible German, fluent and almost totally flawless.

[dutra]

mosley in brazilian tv: its not hard to reach an agreement. we know what everybody wants. my intention was leave fia in october but i cant do it in the middle of a crisis.

[Ross Stonefeld]

RTL just showed a long interview with Mosley, conducted by Niki Lauda.

Mosley speaks incredible German, fluent and almost totally flawless.

Of course he would, he's a Nazi. Duh.

[potmotr]

Of course he would, he's a Nazi. Duh.

It was quite impressive. He must have lived here at some point.

[femi]

It was quite impressive. He must have lived here at some point.

I think he feels more at home in German than English. German as we saw was his preferred language in his more excited moments

[Boing 2]

It was quite impressive. He must have lived here at some point.

i got the feeling he learned his german watching allo allo re-runs......

[engel]

RTL just showed a long interview with Mosley, conducted by Niki Lauda.

Mosley speaks incredible German, fluent and almost totally flawless.

His mum and dad lived in Germany for a long time ... heck they were even married by Goebbels, I m sure they taught little Max some German

[VoidNT]

mosley in brazilian tv: its not hard to reach an agreement. we know what everybody wants. my intention was leave fia in october but i cant do it in the middle of a crisis.

Typical dictatorial excuse. He just forgot to mention who created the crisis and did everything to stir it up.

[Boing 2]

every interview with max is about budget caps, every inteview with FOTA is about gorvernance.

if they're not even talking about the same thing how can they be close to a compromise?

[EVL29]

PS how exactly did Bernie buy a business with 1.6b annual turnover for 300m?

It's easy when the guy doing the selling just happens to be the former henchman of the guy doing the buying.

[Chezrome]

I thought that Jake Humphrey asked all the correct questions. I just feel he should have probed Bernie on Max's comments about the loonies. Max might think FOTA is run by loonies but you don't just say that in public.

Yes, he could have probed Mosley a bit further, I give you that. But you know, I've worked as a journalist for a long time and if one of my interviewee's (especially a big shot like Mosley) would call anyone a loonie I would grin, write it down, and think: 'Well. You just put your foot in your mouth, buddy.'

So, thinking it over, I think you are a little bit right after all. Perhaps this journalist, and journalists in general, should remember that the viewer/reader doesn't know as much as the journalist, and explain and probe more to make it more clear.

Edited by Chezrome, 21 June 2009 - 18:15.

[Mr M0by]

every interview with max is about budget caps, every inteview with FOTA is about gorvernance.

if they're not even talking about the same thing how can they be close to a compromise?

Well for all we know they're talking about a compromise on governance but there is no_way_on_earth that Max is going to admit that in an interview at this stage.

[ForeverF1]

I am very surprised that none have picked up on that Jake, in one of his interviews with Mosley, was wearing a Black Shirt.

[chhatra]

I am very surprised that none have picked up on that Jake, in one of his interviews with Mosley, was wearing a Black Shirt.

Possibly because the content was more important then the colour of Jake's shirt.

I'm just so tired of this whole thing now, my misery is further compelled by McLaren terrible performances and processional races. I just wish FOTA would forget about Max and start their own thing, or make a deal with Max and do it quick.

[JdB]

Typical dictatorial excuse. He just forgot to mention who created the crisis and did everything to stir it up.

So basically all this is just an election campaign ?? I thought the American elections were a bit over the top, but there nothing compared to this !!

[ForeverF1]

Possibly because the content was more important then the colour of Jake's shirt.

You have not heard of "Mosleys Black Shirts" I take it.