23 replies to this topic

[Dave Ware]

Ralf Kelleners drove at Sebring; is he related to Helmut Kelleners who drove in the Interserie in the early '70s, (and who I think was also a factory Porsche driver in the late sixties?)

Antonio Beltoise; related to Jean-Pierre? I saw him being intervied on a tape of last year's Spa 24 hours, and he looked like he could be Jean-Pierre's son (or nephew.)

I'm sure someone around here knows.

Dave

[Ray Bell]

Well you can't ask Ignazio Giunti...

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[fount of all knowledge]

That kind of asinine comment should have no place here. I hope you are embarassed by how stupid it makes you look Ray.

[Ray Bell]

I would have hoped there was room for a little humour, and while I do know that some don't accept such things as humour, others do. For those who don't, I apologise, and I must confess I did think about pulling the comment off after a little while. But now I won't, and we'll leave it to others to make their comment.
Anyway, just ask Art, at our age we're used to feeling the odd bit of stupidity at times...
(More humour - or do you spell it humor?)

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Fast One]

Fount--

One rule over here is you don't call people names like "stupid". Especially someone like Ray, who is about as impressive a poster as this forum could hope to have and about as far from stupid as one can be. Frankly, I thought it was funny, too, albeit cold, cold, cold. It's called black humor, just in case you haven't heard of it (You are a sick man, Ray, which is why I like you.). To call a guy like Ray "stupid, makes a person look...well...stupid.

[Keir]

Na Na Na Na Naaa Na!!!!
That's telling him!!!!!

Ray,
That was "below" cold!!!!!

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"I Was Born Ready"

[BRG]

Oooh, behave!

This is all getting a bit too "Reader's Comments" for my liking.

Anyway Dave Ware, I think both drivers are the sons of their fathers (well, they would be, I guess) as you suggest. I am pretty sure that J-P and Antoine Beltoise are father and son, not quite so sure about the Kelleners.

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BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[Ray Bell]

Impressive?
Do I deserve such praise?
Thanks for the vote, anyway, and yes - I have heard the term 'black humour'.
When I set about getting the autographs of all the winners of the Australian Grand Prix in the 50-year History book I said to someone (who was - and still is - older than myself) that I should remind him to get Lex Davison's autograph, he'd be seeing him before I would!
Three who have autographed that book have since died... which is simply a fact of life.

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Dave Ware]

I thought it was funny. I almost responded to it but couldn't think of anything witty.

Some people need to lighten up.

D.

[Ray Bell]

Dave - I think it's mandatory for you to lose the 'junior' status before getting too witty. BTW, the 'introductions' thread awaits your post...

[This message has been edited by Ray Bell (edited 03-21-2000).]

[ZippyD]

Be cool Junior. If need be, an administrator will yell at someone for an improper post. Enjoy the ride.

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"Pete, Do you sometimes get tired? Of the driving? Lately I have been getting tired. Very tired."

[Dennis David]

I wouldn’t characterize it as stupidity on Ray’s part. No it’s more like the manifestation of a fine patina. Unfortunately in Ray’s case it was applied in a similar manner as is used in new buildings.;-)

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Regards,

Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/

[Don Capps]

Speaking of which.....

While I am sure our Newbie was correct to perhaps raise an eyebrow, I took it as the usual droll, gallows humor/humour that is often displayed here.

Fount, please understand that we try very hard here to avoid the emotional, hair-trigger sorts of posts that often mar the otherwise excellent Readers Comments Forum. We are mostly Old Farts -- for reason Bira didn't seemed enthralled when it was suggested (by DD, I hasten to add) to call this the Old Farts Forum -- and while we do get our shorts in wad from time to time -- that is why Joe Fan is on the payroll -- we generally pontificate and ramble on endless about what we think are really neat things while most are generally puzzled at how the subject of a little remembered driver can launch dozens of postings.

Having said all that, I do welcome you, Fount, to the Forum!


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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…

[Yohbi]

Ray,

Keep up the gallows humour. If you see some of my posts, I qualify as a bit of a character myself.

Don,

It seems to be more civil over here. Maybe because we have less a need to prove our knowledge is right ;)

Regards,

Yohbi

[BRG]

Yes, but is Ralf Helmut's kinder???

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BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[AUSTRIA]

Ralf is the son of Helmut Kelleners, now 61 years old and called 'Die Nas' - what means 'The Nose', reflecting his very big smelling-bloc. Helmut says, his son has more speed as he had by his own. Then there will come out somthing great, because Helmut was three times Champion in the touringcar-EC. During the years 1969 - 1974 he drove some big bangers as the McLaren M8, March 707-Chevy, Porsche 908 and 917, .. and a GT 40). Never forgotten his battle against Herbert Müller on the 'Nürburgring', touching some times each other, and Helmut winning with only a hair between. Remarkable, he was running over 30 years and never was hurt in a racing accident!

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E.T.

[This message has been edited by AUSTRIA (edited 03-23-2000).]

[BRG]

Danke, Austria!

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BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[AUSTRIA]

You speak a fine German, BRG from UK; but see: 'kinder' is 'children' and 'KIND' is 'child' ;)

[Uncle Davy]

I can imagine what fount would have thought of my Lorenzo Bandini Memorial Barbecue joke over in the Paddock Club (uh oh, I may have gone too far...;)).

[Keir]

Uncle Davy,
Being a fan of the late Bandini, yes, you went too far!!!!

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"I Was Born Ready"

[Uncle Davy]

Keir,

I was a fan too; he was my older brother's favorite driver at the time of his accident. I recall the anxiety of waiting for news of his condition before he succumbed.

But time and age give us a certain distance from tragedy; we mock Death, knowing that it will ultimately have the last laugh.

Didn't mean to offend...gallows humor may not be for everyone. Apologies if I appeared insensitive.

[Ray Bell]

I've been present for a lot of deaths in Australian racing - or been talking at length to the deceased the week before, as in the case of Timmy Mayer and Glynn Scott. More to the point, in the context of the preceding posts, was a similar situation with Wally Mitchell to that fate which befell Bandini. I had bumped into him (the only time I met him) some time before his accident as he made his way through Parramatta on his way from Surfers Paradise to his home in Melbourne. When he crashed in Tasmania he was seriously burned, but reports for three weeks were very optimistic. Ironically, the bits from which he built the car were the remains of the cars in which Lex Davison and Rocky Tresize had died in that fateful 1965 Tasman series, two years before.
Perhaps I can feel that death in racing is no stranger to me, but to read the Jo Ramirez story in Motor Sport is to see how insular one really might have to become.
But, as I have said before, I have a rather different view of these things to most...
My signature line relates to leaving behind a dead infant's grave (more details in the 'Nomad's back' thread).

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Huw Jenjin]

The reference to the Beltoise?giunti incident is not only sick and childish, but extremely insensetive towards poor Beltoise and his son. Surely this is an international and hopefully credible website that could easily be patronised by JP or his family. i sicerely hope not.Jean Pierre grieved long after the ruling body's ban over that accident,as it truly was a terrible thing for a driver to be accused of a fellows death. Beltoise' act would have been remembered as one of heroism, trying to push his Matra along,(like mansell or brabham) had Giunti not been unsighted.
People like James Hunt blamed Ricardo Patrese for Ronnie Peterson's death, which was patent nonsense if you look at the film. It was more likely Hunt's mistake which actually caused it, or even more likely an Italian surgeon.

on a lighter note, wouldn't it be fascinating to have all the fathers and sons, nephews and brothers all racing against each other in a one make series, maybe in those fieresome XJR15s they let out a few years ago.

[Ray Bell]

Better still - in F3000s...

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Life and love are mixed with pain...