Can anybody give me some tips about the Solitude racetrack west of Stuttgart, Germany? I live nearby and are planning to provide somebody with info on the track.
What I am interested in now are books, magazine articles, results etc. Pointers to get started. I can get maps here and pictures I'll take myself.
Thanks, Marco.
Information about Solitude racetrack
Started by
Marco94
, Mar 30 2000 08:57
18 replies to this topic
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#2
Michael M
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Posted 31 March 2000 - 00:51
Surprised that there is so little available. http://www.silhouet....s/solitude.html http://vereine.freep...kson/scname.htm
May be more during weekend.
[This message has been edited by Michael M (edited 03-30-2000).]
May be more during weekend.
[This message has been edited by Michael M (edited 03-30-2000).]
#3
Don Capps
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Posted 31 March 2000 - 01:17
Motor Sport did an article on Solitude several months back. However, in keeping with their recent trend of pop journalism they never showed a diagram of the circuit -- which is pretty much the same criticism which could be made of nearly all their "circuit visit" articles.
Personal opinion is that Motor Sport is easily on its way to joining F1 Racing, Autosport, and so forth as glossy, shallow rags which are overpriced and underwhelming in their content.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…
Personal opinion is that Motor Sport is easily on its way to joining F1 Racing, Autosport, and so forth as glossy, shallow rags which are overpriced and underwhelming in their content.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…
#4
Dennis David
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Posted 31 March 2000 - 04:35
Say it ain't so Don! ;-)
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Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/
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Regards,
Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david
Life is racing, the rest is waiting
Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/
#5
Ray Bell
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Posted 31 March 2000 - 05:10
Talk about people not being fit to trim the beard...
My opinion of their Solitude story was that it seemed to leave a lot out, and the Nurburgring story, too, though it had some nice present-day pictures. But I admit I didn't even notice it had no map. Perhaps because I devoured what there was in January and February issues in one evening.
The articles I do on old circuits have a set formart:
How did it come about and who got it rolling;
A clear description of the circuit as one navigates it;
Some detail of events held there, from the first to the last, with some dates;
Details of incidents that might have been notorious, or recently uncovered;
Where possible, a listing of the outright lap record from the beginning to the end;
An explanation of how it came to an end;
Details of finances;
A map;
Photos from the racing days;
Photos as it is today.
It seems to me that Motor Sport has copied my concept, but they are relying on the raw appeal of more famous places to take the place of the real work of giving detail.
And that is a loss to us.
What would Jenks have said?
More to the point, can we petition Bill Boddy to get Don, Dennis and Barry and myself to take over the magazine on a rescue mission.
Do you think we'd succeed?
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
My opinion of their Solitude story was that it seemed to leave a lot out, and the Nurburgring story, too, though it had some nice present-day pictures. But I admit I didn't even notice it had no map. Perhaps because I devoured what there was in January and February issues in one evening.
The articles I do on old circuits have a set formart:
How did it come about and who got it rolling;
A clear description of the circuit as one navigates it;
Some detail of events held there, from the first to the last, with some dates;
Details of incidents that might have been notorious, or recently uncovered;
Where possible, a listing of the outright lap record from the beginning to the end;
An explanation of how it came to an end;
Details of finances;
A map;
Photos from the racing days;
Photos as it is today.
It seems to me that Motor Sport has copied my concept, but they are relying on the raw appeal of more famous places to take the place of the real work of giving detail.
And that is a loss to us.
What would Jenks have said?
More to the point, can we petition Bill Boddy to get Don, Dennis and Barry and myself to take over the magazine on a rescue mission.
Do you think we'd succeed?
------------------
Life and love are mixed with pain...
#6
Don Capps
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Posted 31 March 2000 - 10:45
Ray,
YOUR format -- or at least as much of it as reasonably possible -- is what I think a circuit article should strive to cover. The emphasis on Then & Now photos has to be linked with some idea of what the circuit configuration was and where the bits are in the pix in relation to the circuit overall.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…
YOUR format -- or at least as much of it as reasonably possible -- is what I think a circuit article should strive to cover. The emphasis on Then & Now photos has to be linked with some idea of what the circuit configuration was and where the bits are in the pix in relation to the circuit overall.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…
#7
Ray Bell
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Posted 31 March 2000 - 19:41
Don, the only real problem I have with these articles is the lack of input in the layout stage. I have been trying to get them to organise the today photos that depict the same section as the originals to be put together, but there's a little bit of reluctance for them so to do. There is some difficulty in getting the pics, too. Lots, in some cases.
But there's plenty of story to it all. There have been better than 110 circuits in Australia since the first road race in 1928...
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
But there's plenty of story to it all. There have been better than 110 circuits in Australia since the first road race in 1928...
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
#8
Barry Lake
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Posted 01 April 2000 - 21:20
When I saw this item I thought to myself, I can supply a map of the Solitude circuit. Then I thought, maybe I can't...
I once arranged to go to Daimler-Benz in Stuttgart on my own (not with an organised group of journalists), and I stayed in a small hotel a little way out of town. The address was Solitude.
I asked where the old road circuit was and they said, 'That's it outside'.
I asked which direction it went, and had a drive around it.
Very fast, and potentially dangerous, but not what I would consider one of the great circuits.
The old pit buildings were still there.
But as for telling you where it is, I can't really remember.
I can only suggest that perhaps an old Motor Sport story might have had a small map, as they used to do for world championship events.
If I can find one, I will post it here.
I once arranged to go to Daimler-Benz in Stuttgart on my own (not with an organised group of journalists), and I stayed in a small hotel a little way out of town. The address was Solitude.
I asked where the old road circuit was and they said, 'That's it outside'.
I asked which direction it went, and had a drive around it.
Very fast, and potentially dangerous, but not what I would consider one of the great circuits.
The old pit buildings were still there.
But as for telling you where it is, I can't really remember.
I can only suggest that perhaps an old Motor Sport story might have had a small map, as they used to do for world championship events.
If I can find one, I will post it here.
#9
Ray Bell
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Posted 02 April 2000 - 04:22
My recollection of race reports causes me to think that one of the things that did contribute to any greatness was the amount of overhanging foliage and the resultant impact that had when it rained. It was a slippery place in the wet, and it showed up in the 1964 (?) race when FJ showed Clark the way to do it. Any circuit that brought out the dominance of another driver over Clark was great...
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
#10
Roger Clark
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Posted 02 April 2000 - 15:37
Ray, By FJ, do you mean Surtees? If so, it was '64, he did lead for a while, but clark won the race.
#11
Ray Bell
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Posted 02 April 2000 - 16:47
Let's explain this. Jenks wrote something like (and it was a classic): "The fingertip control the leading drivers was displaying was fantastic - (referring to the care they were taking on the slippery road) a cat walking on a shelf of Dresden china would have been clumsy by comparison."
He also referred to the Ferrari being more difficult to drive under those circumstances, with the less flexible engine and all, and that Clark only came to the fore when it dried....
Yeah, FJ was my man...
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
He also referred to the Ferrari being more difficult to drive under those circumstances, with the less flexible engine and all, and that Clark only came to the fore when it dried....
Yeah, FJ was my man...
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
#12
Roger Clark
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Posted 02 April 2000 - 21:33
Ray, I've just re-read the report. It sounds a little like Surtess toying with rindt a couple of years later at Spa.
(We've all got our prejudices!)
(We've all got our prejudices!)
#13
Fast One
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Posted 02 April 2000 - 22:02
Surtees lead reached 20 seconds during the rain. Clark only started making headway in the Lotus when the track began drying. I can't imagine spotting a guy like Fearless John a 20 second lead for the fun of it! Had the rain continued, I can't see how Clark would have gotten back in it. Remember, Ferrari was testing a new Bosch fuel-injection unit, and it was causing the engine to miss in the lower rev range. Surtees said that when the track became only partially wet, he wasn't able to keep the revs up in the range where the unit worked well. THAT'S what enabled the Lotus to eat into his lead.
Anyway, they were both great. Heck, most of the field was wiped out in crashes behind the leaders. But I'm with Ray, in equal equipment, I'm hiring Surtees.
[This message has been edited by Fast One (edited 04-02-2000).]
Anyway, they were both great. Heck, most of the field was wiped out in crashes behind the leaders. But I'm with Ray, in equal equipment, I'm hiring Surtees.
[This message has been edited by Fast One (edited 04-02-2000).]
#14
Ray Bell
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Posted 03 April 2000 - 06:58
There's a song about that, Fast One. It goes:
'You and me against the world...'
He's another who made some bad choices about who to drive for, but worked at it and came up trumps - mostly. Just imagine how hard it must have been to get good Climax engines when Clark and Lotus had the pace and Brabham was the ex-Champion who'd won with the FPFs... Lola were really up against it.
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
'You and me against the world...'
He's another who made some bad choices about who to drive for, but worked at it and came up trumps - mostly. Just imagine how hard it must have been to get good Climax engines when Clark and Lotus had the pace and Brabham was the ex-Champion who'd won with the FPFs... Lola were really up against it.
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
#15
Marco94
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Posted 05 April 2000 - 13:39
Thank you for all your replies. I had known about some of the websites though. What I am very interested in are results from races and books. Can anyone give me some pointer on that.
Marco.
Marco.
#16
Ray Bell
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Posted 05 April 2000 - 20:05
Otto Merz won the first two GPs there, in 1925 & 1926, in a Mercedes, but Momberger won the third in 1927 in a Bugatti.
The next race was 1950, with races in 56, 59 and annually from then on - with the category changing from F2 to sports to FJ to F2, then F1 in 1961.
Again, it's in Grand Prix Racing Facts & Figures, Monkhouse & King Farlow...
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
The next race was 1950, with races in 56, 59 and annually from then on - with the category changing from F2 to sports to FJ to F2, then F1 in 1961.
Again, it's in Grand Prix Racing Facts & Figures, Monkhouse & King Farlow...
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
#17
Barry Lake
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Posted 06 April 2000 - 17:01
Marco94
I found a 10 page story on Solitude in Automobile Quarterly, Volume 26 Number 4 (1988).
If you send me your e-mail address I can send you a copy of the detailed circuit map.
Reading the story and looking at the photos I realise that, in a racing car at top speed, it would have been a far more difficult circuit than I had remembered.
At road speed it is difficult to judge.
I found a 10 page story on Solitude in Automobile Quarterly, Volume 26 Number 4 (1988).
If you send me your e-mail address I can send you a copy of the detailed circuit map.
Reading the story and looking at the photos I realise that, in a racing car at top speed, it would have been a far more difficult circuit than I had remembered.
At road speed it is difficult to judge.
#18
Ray Bell
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Posted 06 April 2000 - 07:33
... and especially in an FC. Or was it a VW1200 that week?
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
#19
Darren Galpin
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Posted 06 April 2000 - 07:34
Thanks for quoting a URL on my site - nice to know that people use it! There is a road map from present day Stuttgart which shows the track there, plus an older map. I lived virtually next door to the track for a year, and have cycled and driven most of it. It can be scary enough at everyday road speeds, even on a bicycle in some of the corners!Originally posted by Michael M:
Surprised that there is so little available. http://www.silhouet....s/solitude.html http://vereine.freep...kson/scname.htm
May be more during weekend.
[This message has been edited by Michael M (edited 03-30-2000).]
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