6852 replies to this topic

[Jackmancer]

Captain Tightpants, on Oct 1 2009, 12:26, said:

Maybe they're concerned that the teams will stick around and that will mean they'll get less of the television rights when that gets carved up and divided amongst the teams in 2011.

Good point. I don't understand why everybody thinks Frank Williams is an angel, perhaps because he's around for a long time and sits in a wheelchar.
Sometimes he does make decissions which are in the interest of the sport but more and more do I see him as unsporty.

[F3000man]

DFV, on Oct 1 2009, 10:44, said:

Not good news for USF1 fans:

http://www.motorspor...p...47443&FS=F1

I understand it as a non-issue rather than a denial. Sam Michael is really confident that we won't have all the 14 teams making it. And, unfortunately, he seems to be right. Actually, I can put a question mark on half of these 14 teams. Who can guarantee 100% the presences of Renault, Toyota, Virgin Manor, Campos, USF1, Lotus and Qadbak-Sauber?

[highdownforce]

F3000man, on Oct 1 2009, 12:07, said:

I understand it as a non-issue rather than a denial. Sam Michael is really confident that we won't have all the 14 teams making it. And, unfortunately, he seems to be right. Actually, I can put a question mark on half of these 14 teams. Who can guarantee 100% the presences of Renault, Toyota, Virgin Manor, Campos, USF1, Lotus and Qadbak-Sauber?

Qadbak-Sauber is the 14th.

[moonman]

What proper racing cars have been fully designed and developed in the US during the last years? The Corvette GT1 programme is the only thing that comes to my mind.

Edited by moonman, 01 October 2009 - 17:15.

[loki]

moonman, on Oct 1 2009, 17:14, said:

What proper racing cars have been fully designed and developed in the US during the last years? The Corvette GT1 programme is the only thing that comes to my mind.

I suppose it depends on what one considers a "proper" race car.

Panoz DP-01 Champ Car, Panoz DP-09 Superleague, various Panoz sports cars. Panoz/Elan now owns Van Daimen.
Swift Engineering, Atlantics and Formula Ford.
Robby Gordon's Dakar Hummer, SCORE, SNORE and CORE off road cars.
All the leading top fuel dragsters, funny cars and blown alcohol drag cars
hundreds if not thousands of stock cars used on the professional level
tens of thousands of cars used on the amateur/club level

There are more race cars built and raced in the States than the rest of the world. Combined.

Edited by loki, 02 October 2009 - 08:01.

[DFV]

loki, on Oct 2 2009, 09:51, said:

I suppose it depends on what one considers a "proper" race car.

Panoz DP-01 Champ Car, Panoz DP-09 Superleague, various Panoz sports cars. Panoz/Elan now owns Van Daimen.
Swift Engineering, Atlantics and Formula Ford.
Robby Gordon's Dakar Hummer, SCORE, SNORE and CORE off road cars.
All the leading top fuel dragsters, funny cars and blown alcohol drag cars
hundreds if not thousands of stock cars used on the professional level
tens of thousands of cars used on the amateur/club level

There are more race cars built and raced in the States than the rest of the world. Combined.

I think that with "proper" race cars you should read European race cars... At least that's the impression you sometime get....

[spacepig]

loki, on Oct 2 2009, 01:51, said:

I suppose it depends on what one considers a "proper" race car.

Panoz DP-01 Champ Car, Panoz DP-09 Superleague, various Panoz sports cars. Panoz/Elan now owns Van Daimen.
Swift Engineering, Atlantics and Formula Ford.
Robby Gordon's Dakar Hummer, SCORE, SNORE and CORE off road cars.
All the leading top fuel dragsters, funny cars and blown alcohol drag cars
hundreds if not thousands of stock cars used on the professional level
tens of thousands of cars used on the amateur/club level

There are more race cars built and raced in the States than the rest of the world. Combined.

Plus all the dirt track cars: sprint cars, midgets, supermodifieds, silver crowns, etc. Not relevant to F1, but certainly proper race cars. But don't let that interfere with the prevailing European view that the US is populated entirely by slack-jawed yokels who are only good at eating and watching TV.

As for the topic at hand, this is a typical Internet BS rumor frenzy. USF1 is fine. They are well funded, the car design is well along, they are installing machines, and they are hiring tons of people. How much have we heard about Manor or Campos or "Lotus" in comparison?

[Just waiting]

Dmitriy_Guller, on Sep 29 2009, 19:22, said:

That wasn't a serious test, that was more of an exhibition. IIRC, they did only several runs, with no more than a handful of laps apiece, and neither driver in their own car drove to the limit. I'm not saying that Gordon isn't F1 material, but using that test to draw any conclusions is a little silly. You do have to appreciate the irony of what followed: many people thought this could be a prelude to Jeff Gordon switching to F1, when in fact it turned out to be a prelude to a much more unfathomable Montoya switch to NASCAR.

Despite being "fun times" (True) Gordon was driving last year's car and no qualifying tires, and turning times that would have put him in the middle to back of the pack for year before---do some serious testing for another day or two.....who knows, as Gordon said he was not coming close to adjusting to the carbon brakes as he had never driven a f1 car or carbon brakes.......

better than bodoeur and better than fis did at his first couple of races for ferrari....and both had plenty of prior experience

[Just waiting]

spacepig, on Oct 2 2009, 06:30, said:

Plus all the dirt track cars: sprint cars, midgets, supermodifieds, silver crowns, etc. Not relevant to F1, but certainly proper race cars. But don't let that interfere with the prevailing European view that the US is populated entirely by slack-jawed yokels who are only good at eating and watching TV.

Forgot drinking beer and shooting guns

[loki]

The USF1 concept is interesting because no one in F1 has contracted out so many of the key construction functions. There has never been a professional environment in in such close proximity that has the technical resources they do in the Charlotte area. That said, it doesn't matter how modern your autoclav is or how big the tunnel it's guys like Newey et al that make it happen and they don't grow on trees.

[VoidNT]

This project was a PR exercise from the very beginning. If you want to make a lot of noise without any results - take Peter Windsor onboard. I'm still amazed how many people bought into it.

[OSX]

This is from the Suzuka paddock...

[Captain Tightpants]

VoidNT, on Oct 3 2009, 07:23, said:

This project was a PR exercise from the very beginning. If you want to make a lot of noise without any results - take Peter Windsor onboard. I'm still amazed how many people bought into it.

Small problem with your theory: if you're staging a PR exercise, you'd better actually have something to draw attention to. If USF1 is the exercise itself, what the hell is the exercise promoting?

[AyePirate]

http://www.nytimes.c...a...anted=2

[Captain Tightpants]

AyePirate, on Oct 3 2009, 10:42, said:

http://www.nytimes.c...a...anted=2

Sounds like All Systems Go. Of course, it is written by Windsor, but I honestly think that the suggestion they won't make it is a lot of hot air because they're Americans.

[Slyder]

January-February testing cannot come fast enough, let alone Bahrain...

[Madera]

AyePirate, on Oct 3 2009, 00:42, said:

http://www.nytimes.c...a...anted=2

That is a must read for all the naysayers. Nice find.

[CoolFiltered]

"Bernard Ferguson is to return to Formula 1 to help the new Team US F1. Story going up on autosport.com soon"

from Nobles twitter.

[BiH]

well maybe we judged too quickly....i guess mosley had the other teams in mind when he meant 1-2 might not make the grid

[Slyder]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/79158

It's out now. So I guess this may be more than just a mere PR stunt.

Plus it says that their first rolling chassis will be out before this month's over, so this should be very interesting once the car is rolled out and someone gets a snapshot of it.

[Ted.B]

Quite interesting to compare the two articles I thought.

Quote

We would make our factory “fan friendly,” with easy access to the public, and, with a television production facility in the factory, we would enable Formula One fans to follow the progress of the car from conception to completion.

Quote

I guess in this modern media world, everybody expects instant information and instant pictures anyway.

Now I wonder who led us all to believe that we would receive this instant information ?

[DLaw]

VoidNT, on Oct 2 2009, 14:23, said:

This project was a PR exercise from the very beginning. If you want to make a lot of noise without any results - take Peter Windsor onboard. I'm still amazed how many people bought into it.

PR? for whom and what? why?

You are not making sense.

[loki]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/79158

That should quell the "they aren't serious" rumors. Or not...

On edit: didn't notice he beat me to it on the oter page..

Edited by loki, 03 October 2009 - 04:17.

[DFV]

Good news indeed. Both for USF1 fans and Cosworth fans. Seems to indicate that the USF1 Toyota reports where not correct... Unless they have hired him (Bernard Ferguson) to get the Toyota engines up to speed... But that would be very unlikely with the current engine freeze, if Toyota need help with their engines they would hire engineers for their factory not use someone from a F1 team.

Edited by DFV, 03 October 2009 - 06:37.

[Louis Siefert]

Did Peter Windsor just say that USF1 is Gary Anderson's on speed?

[DFV]

According to their website they will be "on track in 2010":

http://www.usgpe.com

Edited by DFV, 04 October 2009 - 09:23.

[cmgoodman]

JarnoA, on Sep 28 2009, 02:58, said:

Most of us have computers, (invented by Englishman Charles Babbage), use google, (a search engine for the www, with the www invented by Englishman Tim Berners lee), and iPods, (mp3 players using the mp3 format developed by a dutch, french and german group)

So yes, the Americans are good at taking other peoples inventions and marketing them as their own.

Uh, that is a dishonest attempt to mitigate the contributions of American inventors and industry.
1) first mainframe computer was US - ENIAC.
2) first popular personal computer - Apple II
3) followed by IBM PC
4) foundation of digital computers - Integrated circuits, transistor, CPU all pioneered in Silicon Valley, CA
5) iPod- another invention of Apple Computer along with iTunes, iPhone, iPod Touch.
6) Linux, the open source operating system - started by Linus Torvalds, developed by a cast of thousands - currently works and lives in Silicon Valley.
7) The British contribution - tea and crumpets!
8) Oh BTW - the WWW was first started as application on a Next computer, founded by Steve Jobs, now part of Apple Computer
9) the first widespread web Browser - written by Marc Andressen - now largely replaced by IE, Firefox/Mozilla, Safari, etc, also was American from UIUC, now in Silicon Valley.
and iPods primarily use the .aac format - see Apple website, mp3 format has been largely used as an open format, that lead to file sharing, infringement of copyrights, and theft of intellectual property.

[klyster]

cmgoodman, on Oct 6 2009, 06:57, said:

Uh, that is a dishonest attempt to mitigate the contributions of American inventors and industry.
1) first mainframe computer was US - ENIAC.
2) first popular personal computer - Apple II
3) followed by IBM PC
4) foundation of digital computers - Integrated circuits, transistor, CPU all pioneered in Silicon Valley, CA
5) iPod- another invention of Apple Computer along with iTunes, iPhone, iPod Touch.
6) Linux, the open source operating system - started by Linus Torvalds, developed by a cast of thousands - currently works and lives in Silicon Valley.
7) The British contribution - tea and crumpets!
8) Oh BTW - the WWW was first started as application on a Next computer, founded by Steve Jobs, now part of Apple Computer
9) the first widespread web Browser - written by Marc Andressen - now largely replaced by IE, Firefox/Mozilla, Safari, etc, also was American from UIUC, now in Silicon Valley.
and iPods primarily use the .aac format - see Apple website, mp3 format has been largely used as an open format, that lead to file sharing, infringement of copyrights, and theft of intellectual property.

You might want to mention Commodore in there as although they were not as popular, they released the first real personal computer, and were Canadian.

http://en.wikipedia....puting_hardware

Plenty of input from Britain there.

As for the creation of World Wide Web

Quote

The World Wide Web is a system of interlinked hypertext documents accessed via the Internet. With a web browser, one can view Web pages that may contain text, images, videos, and other multimedia and navigate between them using hyperlinks. Using concepts from earlier hypertext systems, English physicist Tim Berners-Lee, now the Director of the World Wide Web Consortium, wrote a proposal in March 1989 for what would eventually become the World Wide Web. He was later joined by Belgian computer scientist Robert Cailliau while both were working at CERN in Geneva, Switzerland. In 1990, they proposed using "HyperText [...] to link and access information of various kinds as a web of nodes in which the user can browse at will",[1] and released that web in December.[2]

Connected by the existing Internet, other websites were created, around the world, adding international standards for domain names and the HTML. Since then, Berners-Lee has played an active role in guiding the development of Web standards (such as the markup languages in which Web pages are composed), and in recent years has advocated his vision of a Semantic Web. The World Wide Web enabled the spread of information over the Internet through an easy-to-use and flexible format. It thus played an important role in popularizing use of the Internet.[3] Although the two terms are sometimes conflated in popular use, World Wide Web is not synonymous with Internet.[4] The Web is an application built on top of the Internet.

Sure, they used NEXT, but only as a tool, not a means.


Linus Torvalds isn't American, he is Finnish, he only resides in America.

The first mainframe wasn't ENIAC, but was American.

The integrated circuit was the brainchild of a British guy, but was successfully realised by an American man.

Not to say America hasn't played a huge chunk of the role in the modern computer age, but other nations, Britain in particular, has helped to speed things along.

It is also noteworthy that most American electronics, Apple in particular, are manufactured in Asia these days, not America.

Taking ideas and improving them is what makes for a better world.

Consider what Japan has done with the car, the US clearly learnt a thing or two from what Japan initially learnt from others including the US.

Look at the US space program, we all know it was driven by the rescued brains from Germany and other places in Europe, but it was put into realisation by America.

Look at Nikolai Tesla, and how badly Edison ripped him off. He was destitute when he died, yet Edison was multi millionaire. Sad. Nikolai wasn't American, but his ideas were quickly snapped up by the American Government, the guy was a genius on the level of Einstein, who also resided in America, but wasn't American.

The whole world takes ideas and tries to improve them, there's nothing wrong with that, but we should remember where those ideas came from, and try not to let national pride get in the way.

Edited by klyster, 07 October 2009 - 19:00.

[Jedi_F1]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/79326

"American driver unlikely for US F1"

Now read the article good and the first idea of USF1 to run only american drivers...
keep that in mind.

Then read Windsor last line= "Let's hope that really talented drivers like Anthony Davidson, Jamie Green and Gary Paffett all get a chance in F1 because it's sad that so many talented drivers haven't had a chance."

So tell me Peter if you think it's sad so many talented drivers haven't had a chance.... why don't you drop the idea of nationality drivers but go for talent instead, american or not american....?

[potmotr]

To answer the OP, I still say they won't make it.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Just waiting, on Oct 2 2009, 07:53, said:

Despite being "fun times" (True) Gordon was driving last year's car and no qualifying tires, and turning times that would have put him in the middle to back of the pack for year before---do some serious testing for another day or two.....who knows, as Gordon said he was not coming close to adjusting to the carbon brakes as he had never driven a f1 car or carbon brakes.......

better than bodoeur and better than fis did at his first couple of races for ferrari....and both had plenty of prior experience

Let's not get carried away with gross exaggerations. Gordon's best lap was 1:16.5. By comparison, Schumacher won the pole with a 1:10.8 lap, and Yoong qualified last with a 1:13.8 lap. Obviously it's apples and oranges, it's unreasonable to expect Gordon to be anywhere near on pace in his first dozen laps, and the Williams he drove surely had a child-proof setup that wouldn't compete for poles. However, the fact remains that he wasn't anywhere near the pace of the F1 field, and so it's silly to compare him with Badoer or Fisi. Your bullshit detector should've went off at that point.

[loki]

Jedi_F1, on Oct 7 2009, 16:38, said:

Now read the article good and the first idea of USF1 to run only american drivers...
keep that in mind.

(snip)

So tell me Peter if you think it's sad so many talented drivers haven't had a chance.... why don't you drop the idea of nationality drivers but go for talent instead, american or not american....?

Anyone from over here that follows the sport could have told them that unless they get young Andretti or young Rahal (or perhaps Speed) there isn't anybody that won't take a few years to groom and more likely the first real prospect is just getting into cars. Our kids go into oval racing for the same reason Ronnie Biggs robbed the train. That's where the money is. Also, having a US driver is the only way they'll get support from US sponsors or interest fans that aren't already into F1. It's going to take a couple years to groom some US kids so take that time with some seasoned old dogs and the car at least mid pack. Young kids aren't going to be able to help develop a car like that.

[Uppili]

Jedi_F1, on Oct 7 2009, 12:38, said:

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/79326

"American driver unlikely for US F1"

Clearing the way to make announcements of two pay drivers. Nice....

[Fiorentina 1]

After what that tool Peter Windsor said today on autosport, I hope they don't make it! What a real wanker! "No Americans ready for F1 next year". What the hell changed from this time last year Peter?

[Fiorentina 1]

After what that tool Peter Windsor said today on autosport, I hope they don't make it! What a real wanker! "No Americans ready for F1 next year". What the hell changed from this time last year Peter?

[OSX]

Motor racing-U.S. F1 team say 2010 car is now being built

"LONDON, Oct 7 (Reuters) - The new U.S. F1 team have started building their 2010 car and will have it finished in time for testing in January, team principal Ken Anderson said on Wednesday.

"Our world headquarters is now complete and fully functional, and the 2010 race car is in the construction phase," Anderson said in a Q&A released by the team based in Charlotte, North Carolina.

"Thanks to our in-house design and engineering staff and the aid of our technical partners, for the last 10 to 12 months, the car has gone through thousands of iterations in a virtual environment," he added.

"With this virtual design, we can test and be sure that it's right from structural, design and engineering standpoints, so we don't have to make a part, test it, break it and start again.

"Our timing is according to plan, with an early November "roller" and a finished car in time for January 2010 testing," said Anderson.

He said a number of staff recruited from other Formula One teams would be joining formally at the end of the month."

Continues...
http://uk.reuters.co...L75054620091007

[wingwalker]

Yeah, and it's all about the 'time they have lost' and has absolutely nothing to do with shortage of talented US open wheelers drivers. Sure.

[OSX]

USF1 Photos from Joe Seward's GP blog:







More photos and Ken Anderson interview...
http://joesaward.wor...n-and-pictures/

Looks like a real deal.

Edited by OSX, 07 October 2009 - 21:49.

[JarnoA]

OSX, on Oct 7 2009, 22:49, said:

USF1 Photos from Joe Seward's GP blog:







More photos and Ken Anderson interview...
http://joesaward.wor...n-and-pictures/

Looks like a real deal.

Real deal indeed. From those photo's, USF1 have a massive workforce of 4 people. At least they won't need to make huge redundancies when they fail to appear.

[OSX]

JarnoA, on Oct 8 2009, 01:24, said:

Real deal indeed. From those photo's, USF1 have a massive workforce of 4 people. At least they won't need to make huge redundancies when they fail to appear.

Lol. I think the story/interview/photos make the whole deal seem quite convincing. Especially considering that just a couple of hours ago I thought that USF1 was nothing more than a name and a logo.

[newbie]

they are doing their designing on Mac computers!

[DanDectis]

Jedi_F1, on Oct 7 2009, 12:38, said:

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/79326

"American driver unlikely for US F1"

Now read the article good and the first idea of USF1 to run only american drivers...
keep that in mind.

Then read Windsor last line= "Let's hope that really talented drivers like Anthony Davidson, Jamie Green and Gary Paffett all get a chance in F1 because it's sad that so many talented drivers haven't had a chance."

So tell me Peter if you think it's sad so many talented drivers haven't had a chance.... why don't you drop the idea of nationality drivers but go for talent instead, american or not american....?

Did you even read the article?

[DanDectis]

JarnoA, on Oct 7 2009, 18:24, said:

Real deal indeed. From those photo's, USF1 have a massive workforce of 4 people. At least they won't need to make huge redundancies when they fail to appear.

naysayers will say nay even in the face of reasonable evidence to the contrary. Just like assholes will always be assholes and so on.

Joe Saward doesn't really mess about...

[DanDectis]

OSX, on Oct 7 2009, 17:44, said:

Motor racing-U.S. F1 team say 2010 car is now being built

"LONDON, Oct 7 (Reuters) - The new U.S. F1 team have started building their 2010 car and will have it finished in time for testing in January, team principal Ken Anderson said on Wednesday.

"Our world headquarters is now complete and fully functional, and the 2010 race car is in the construction phase," Anderson said in a Q&A released by the team based in Charlotte, North Carolina.

"Thanks to our in-house design and engineering staff and the aid of our technical partners, for the last 10 to 12 months, the car has gone through thousands of iterations in a virtual environment," he added.

"With this virtual design, we can test and be sure that it's right from structural, design and engineering standpoints, so we don't have to make a part, test it, break it and start again.

"Our timing is according to plan, with an early November "roller" and a finished car in time for January 2010 testing," said Anderson.

He said a number of staff recruited from other Formula One teams would be joining formally at the end of the month."

Continues...
http://uk.reuters.co...L75054620091007

and the non-believing, American-trashing naysayers will still not believe this even though they are farther along than any of the other new teams.

"WE'RE EUROPEAN, WE'RE BETTER AT EVERYTHING THAN AMERICANS"

[BiH]

what is so bad about having 2 non american drivers...does mercedes care that heikki and hamilton are not german? or ferrari with massa and kimi....f1 is a business nobody cares what nationality the drivers are...its always getting the best driver that counts.


the good thing is that USF1 is not a fake that we all though it was.

[Captain Tightpants]

JarnoA, on Oct 8 2009, 09:24, said:

Real deal indeed. From those photo's, USF1 have a massive workforce of 4 people. At least they won't need to make huge redundancies when they fail to appear.

That'd be right. They show evidence that they're working away at it all and you just go ahead and shoot the dow over something else.

[r4mses]

Tbh I'm quite impressed by these few pictures. USF1 is more than I thought they are.

(Nevertheless I hope one of the new teams wont make it to the grid so there's space for ex-Sauber, if there's no agreement on a 14th spot.)

[Fiorentina 1]

DanDectis, on Oct 7 2009, 23:17, said:

and the non-believing, American-trashing naysayers will still not believe this even though they are farther along than any of the other new teams.

"WE'RE EUROPEAN, WE'RE BETTER AT EVERYTHING THAN AMERICANS"

Fair enough, but when you're business model is based on having two American drivers it seems kind of lame to go ahead and say they're aren't any drivers available some 6-months before the first race. Peter Windsor needs to learn how to keep his mouth shut if he wants to be taken seriously. Because, when he said bla bla about having two yanks in F1 last year, there weren't any going into GP2, so wtf? What, now he just realized this fact? WTF? How can anyone take him serious after that nonsense? A) He should have never said anything about having two Americans in his car in the first place. B) Should never have said anything yesterday. Alex Rossi is the #1 bet to be an American in F1 in the near future, and he is just testing GP2 with hopefully landing a race seat next year. Will he be ready for F1 in 2011? Only after successfully competing in GP2 in 2010. So, maybe 2011 or 2012 with Rossi, and Newgartten close behind...

My advise to Windsor is to say nothing. Offer Rahal the seat and have him turn it down. Therefore, he looks less like the tool he is making himself look like. To be honest, if any American ever watches the BBC coverage, they'll notice that Windsor isn't as good as people think he is. He can't hold Brundle's tea during the pit walk about bit. Right now, USF1 looks like a 2010 version of Osella or ATS with whom ever has the biggest budget getting the seats. Maybe they'll land Jean-Dennis Deletraz as their experienced #1 driver. Farce!

[JSDSKI]

Fiorentina 1, on Oct 8 2009, 00:40, said:

Fair enough, blah, blah, blah... Farce!

Aside from your distaste for Windsor - is there anything else that bothers you about USF1? Weren't the work areas in the pictures too damned clean?

[V8 Fireworks]

newbie, on Oct 7 2009, 23:08, said:

they are doing their designing on Mac computers!

Unix........


Many serious engineering applications were originally Unix based, not PC, of course.

Edit - Windows I mean of course. Duh, of course Unix runs on PCs. As everyone knows the current Mac OS is based on Unix.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 08 October 2009 - 07:31.