26653 replies to this topic

[Enkei]

Just curious, we'll race with #3 and #4 on our cars next year right?

[Dunder]

Enkei, on Nov 14 2010, 21:57, said:

Just curious, we'll race with #3 and #4 on our cars next year right?

Yup.

[Fastcake]

FranDaMan, on Nov 14 2010, 21:37, said:

Well, I guess page 666 is an appropriate one to sign off on

It's been one hell of a ride this year guys and we came bloody close. We beat Ferrari, Lewis finally avenged that Spa travesty in 08 and I think we probably pulled off more overtaking moves than any other team.

Bravo McLaren. Bring on 2011!

Aye, closely run with five great victories, but in the end Red Bull got us fair and square.

Next season lets see us one higher

[FSLIV]

Though we fought hard I am glad to see this season end. I truely hope the team learned alot this year particularly with car design and implementing upgrades. But BRAVO Macca and LH, oh yeah you too JB. Bring on the MP4/26!!!

[undersquare]

Dunder, on Nov 14 2010, 21:48, said:

It was a gamble that was spoiled by Vettel doing a brilliant inlap.

I think the intention was to have both Hamilton and Vettel stuck behind Kubica, which a) Would give Lewis the best chance of getting past and b) Would give Button a chance to open up a gap.

It was good thinking.

Vettel's inlap was only 0.1 faster than Hamilton's actually, a 1:46.638.

Lewis was always going to get held up by the Renault, so in any case Red Bull could just have waited till they had the gap on Kubica. The 0.7 they also gained in the pitstop just got them past Koba as well.

So it was always going to fail.

[Kimiraikkonen]

Congratulations for Sebastian Vettel and Red Bull but my TEAM next year will be stronger.



Come on Macca ,HAM and Jenson #3 and #4....


Regards

[Dunder]

undersquare, on Nov 14 2010, 22:14, said:

Vettel's inlap was only 0.1 faster than Hamilton's actually, a 1:46.638.

Lewis was always going to get held up by the Renault, so in any case Red Bull could just have waited till they had the gap on Kubica. The 0.7 they also gained in the pitstop just got them past Koba as well.

So it was always going to fail.

At the start of the lap prior to Hamilton pitting, he was 18 seconds clear of Kobayashi and 1.8 seconds behind Vettel.
Both Hamilton and Vettel did very quick inlaps and Red Bull also had the quickest pitstop of the day, which allowed Vettel to clear Kubica and Kobayashi.

Red Bull did/would not risk keeping Vettel out in case of a safety car. At the time I was very surprised that Vettel came out ahead.

[undersquare]

Dunder, on Nov 14 2010, 22:26, said:

At the start of the lap prior to Hamilton pitting, he was 18 seconds clear of Kobayashi and 1.8 seconds behind Vettel.
Both Hamilton and Vettel did very quick inlaps and Red Bull also had the quickest pitstop of the day, which allowed Vettel to clear Kubica and Kobayashi.

Red Bull did/would not risk keeping Vettel out in case of a safety car. At the time I was very surprised that Vettel came out ahead.

I'm looking at the FIA Race History.

Lap 22 Lewis is 1.88 behind SV who's 21.37 ahead of RK, giving Lewis a gap to RK of only 19.5 s when he pits on the next lap (+ gains during the lap).

Lap 23 Sebi is 21.68 ahead of RK for when he pits on the next lap (+ gains during the lap).

That's the foreseeable difference - a crucial 2.3 seconds; the 0.8 gained by SV in the pitstop and inlap were a bonus, but not necessary, they just got him past Koba as well.

Maybe the problem was a time lag between the deciding and the laps? A cockup anyway.

[thanasaki]

2009 Mclaren 3rd
2010 Mclaren 2nd
2011 Mclaren 1st and Hamilton WDC!!!

Good bye MP4-25. It has been a rollercoaster this year... 666 pages.
See you all on the 2011 MP4-26 thread and perhaps a new page record!

[as65p]

f1rules, on Nov 14 2010, 16:38, said:

who is laughing now

Well, seems you're finding it funny seeing your driver got stuck behind a Renault and failing to do what's required to grab his WDC chance.

Good for you, I admit in "my" drivers case I found it less funny, but each to his own...

[Wouter]

thanasaki, on Nov 15 2010, 00:42, said:

Good bye MP4-25. It has been a rollercoaster this year... 666 pages.
See you all on the 2011 MP4-26 thread and perhaps a new page record!

I hope not (for the page record). Separate thread for the general team up and downs in 2011, please. The Mp4/26 thread is good for technical developments, but I don't want another year like this one where like half the posts seem to be from mods pointing out we're off-topic. That would mean no new page record, but quality is better then quantity.

Regarding the -25: it was a bit of a disappointment in the end, but comparisons with the -19(A) or -21 are not quite deserved. This car won 5 races of which no fewer than 3 were 1-2s. It secured second in the WCC, with a larger points gap to the third then to the first. Flawed as it was, it is still on the side of the more succesful McLarens in history (keeping in mind that the team didn't have a winner every year since 1967-1968!).

[robefc]

Dunder, on Nov 14 2010, 21:48, said:

It was a gamble that was spoiled by Vettel doing a brilliant inlap.

I think the intention was to have both Hamilton and Vettel stuck behind Kubica, which a) Would give Lewis the best chance of getting past and b) Would give Button a chance to open up a gap.

It was good thinking.

Undersquare and I have been discussing this in the jense v lewis thread and this further supports that they made the right decision.

By pitting they forced vettel to pit so that meant he might get held up behind kubica and allow lewis a chance.
On the other hand if vettel didn't pit lewis had the chance to jump him if he could use the fresh tyres to get past robert.

If they didn't pit then RB would have simply pitted vettel when he had a big enough gap to kubica, leaving lewis to pit later and be even further behind with no chance of passing.

It was a good gamble in my view with no downside, it just had very little chance of success because vettel was in a much streonger position.

[Wouter]

as65p, on Nov 15 2010, 00:43, said:

Well, seems you're finding it funny seeing your driver got stuck behind a Renault and failing to do what's required to grab his WDC chance.

You mean that "our" driver failed to do what was required for the WDC chance of "your" driver, then?

Evidently, Hamilton would not have been world champion 2010 even if he had beaten Vettel for the win.

[OO7]

as65p, on Nov 15 2010, 01:43, said:

Well, seems you're finding it funny seeing your driver got stuck behind a Renault and failing to do what's required to grab his WDC chance.

Good for you, I admit in "my" drivers case I found it less funny, but each to his own...

I'd be surprised if you found it funny at all ;) .

[undersquare]

robefc, on Nov 14 2010, 23:51, said:

Undersquare and I have been discussing this in the jense v lewis thread and this further supports that they made the right decision.

By pitting they forced vettel to pit so that meant he might get held up behind kubica and allow lewis a chance.
On the other hand if vettel didn't pit lewis had the chance to jump him if he could use the fresh tyres to get past robert.

If they didn't pit then RB would have simply pitted vettel when he had a big enough gap to kubica, leaving lewis to pit later and be even further behind with no chance of passing.

It was a good gamble in my view with no downside, it just had very little chance of success because vettel was in a much streonger position.

It might have been OK if they'd timed it better. Though easy for Red Bull to call their bluff IMO. But the timing data was there for them to see, by Lap 23 it was doomed to fail. Maybe Mission Control intended it for a few laps earlier and the race team delayed too long?

I think sometimes the pitwall gets over-aroused and just has to do something, like they did at Brazil 07 when they messed with a perfectly sound strategy and blew everything.

[Mc_Silver]

Not bad ending for us considering the unfortunate situations,mistakes and Mp4-25's lack of mechanical grip during the season. Today team did good job with finishing 2nd and 3rd in Abu Dhabi. Lewis and Button were very fast during the race so everything looks promising for next season!

Well done to Vettel and Red Bull i think Vettel deserved this after watching Webber's performance in such an important race. Alonso showed his character to the whole world today. Happy to beat Ferrari and hope next year, we will be able to clinch both WCC and WDC with a good car aerodynamically and mechanically, we can do this! Bring on 2011!

Edited by Mc_Silver, 15 November 2010 - 00:39.

[ViMaMo]

Its great to see Mclaren (and Ferrari) challenge the Newey cars. Hoping for another great season 2011.

Edited by vivian, 15 November 2010 - 02:15.

[Dunder]

robefc, on Nov 14 2010, 23:51, said:

Undersquare and I have been discussing this in the jense v lewis thread and this further supports that they made the right decision.

By pitting they forced vettel to pit so that meant he might get held up behind kubica and allow lewis a chance.
On the other hand if vettel didn't pit lewis had the chance to jump him if he could use the fresh tyres to get past robert.

If they didn't pit then RB would have simply pitted vettel when he had a big enough gap to kubica, leaving lewis to pit later and be even further behind with no chance of passing.

It was a good gamble in my view with no downside, it just had very little chance of success because vettel was in a much streonger position.

Oh I agree with that and there was a very limited window in that Lewis had to have a sufficient gap to clear Rosberg which was around lap 17.

In terms of being in with a shot of winning the race, waiting until there was a gap to clear Kubica and Kobayashi would have been preferable but in terms of winning the championship they needed Button ahead of Vettel too (and even then needed Alonso to have a problem).

It WAS worth a shot IMHO.

Edited by Dunder, 15 November 2010 - 02:23.

[femi]

mlsnoopy, on Nov 14 2010, 21:24, said:

No let us hope that the Mp4-26 will have the 25 downforce and 24 mechanical grip.

I think the '25 did have a good mechanical grip until the team started introducing the EBD. I think the team should look very carefully on achieving this years DF without the DDD. There is always a way...I suspect a team might just surprise everybody by just doing that in 2011.

[ATM_Andy]

That was a very long season, still, looking foward too next year now.

Some consolation, at the end Lewis took the DHL Fastest Lap Trophy from Fernando by getting his seasons 5th Fastest Lap in Abu Dhabi.

[seahawk]

Wish you some nice holidays (if you have the time) and the best of luck for next year. You guys did keep us entertained quite nicely this year.

[Mika Mika]

ATM_Andy, on Nov 15 2010, 07:20, said:

at the end Lewis took the DHL Fastest Lap Trophy from Fernando by getting his seasons 5th Fastest Lap in Abu Dhabi.

OUCH salt in the wound!

[bogi]

What are the chances to see kers'ed MP4-24 on those tests next week?

[Bonaventura]

ATM_Andy, on Nov 15 2010, 08:20, said:

That was a very long season, still, looking foward too next year now.

Some consolation, at the end Lewis took the DHL Fastest Lap Trophy from Fernando by getting his seasons 5th Fastest Lap in Abu Dhabi.

Thank you for keeping us fans informed , that makes us fans feel bit important

Thanks for all your work determination, dedication McLaren,
Lewis & Andy
Relly enjoyed the most of the season
was a great pleasure to watch

@ McLaren: enjoyed the live coverage from FPs, (qualy and races )
a good thing for fans who have no TV coverage at FPs
http://mclaren.com/2...abi-gp/practice



Ps: you relly helped me to improve my english (at least, I hope so)

Edited by Bonaventura, 15 November 2010 - 07:49.

[Gareth]

On the pit call: I agree with Dunder, it seems like the right decision. If that 0.7s had gone the other way (ie a slower than Mac stop, rather than a faster one) there's a decent chance Seb ends up bottled up behind Kubica too. And that was McLaren's only chance. Even if it were a slim one, it was a better chance than matching an RB pit call.

ATM_Andy, on Nov 15 2010, 07:20, said:

That was a very long season, still, looking foward too next year now.

Thanks very much for your part in a cracking year Andy: both in what we see on our screens every other weekend and your contribution here.

[f1rules]

as65p, on Nov 15 2010, 00:43, said:

Well, seems you're finding it funny seeing your driver got stuck behind a Renault and failing to do what's required to grab his WDC chance.

Good for you, I admit in "my" drivers case I found it less funny, but each to his own...

Not funny, but the name of the game. Nice to see you not so cocky anymore. Youre not of the opinion the renaults should have moved over right?

[hunnylander]

MP4-25 still has targets ahead of her.

Winning test days and being fastest on Pirelli tyres!

Edited by hunnylander, 15 November 2010 - 10:06.

[as65p]

f1rules, on Nov 15 2010, 09:16, said:

Not funny, but the name of the game. Nice to see you not so cocky anymore. Youre not of the opinion the renaults should have moved over right?

Nothing has in yesterdays race changed re: the respective performance of Hamilton and Alonso when racing close to eachother, which my "cockiness" was all about. Instead yesterday they both fell into the same trap of being unable to overtake a Renault.

I fully understand the joy that Alonso and Ferrari lost, I really do. No problem.

But it's got nothing to do with me or what I said earlier in this thread.

[robefc]

ATM_Andy, on Nov 15 2010, 07:20, said:

That was a very long season, still, looking foward too next year now.

Some consolation, at the end Lewis took the DHL Fastest Lap Trophy from Fernando by getting his seasons 5th Fastest Lap in Abu Dhabi.

Hi Andy,

Thanks for all the insights this year and if we were ever critical it's only because we care so much and get frustrated!!

Did Lewis get the trophy because he picked up the fastest lap in Abu Dhabi? Because Alonso also got 5 FL this year so wondering why lewis wins? Although happy he did!

[robefc]

femi, on Nov 15 2010, 06:29, said:

I think the '25 did have a good mechanical grip until the team started introducing the EBD. I think the team should look very carefully on achieving this years DF without the DDD. There is always a way...I suspect a team might just surprise everybody by just doing that in 2011.

Monaco...?

[Tombstone]

Wouter, on Nov 14 2010, 23:52, said:

You mean that "our" driver failed to do what was required for the WDC chance of "your" driver, then?

Evidently, Hamilton would not have been world champion 2010 even if he had beaten Vettel for the win.

Indeed, Hamilton would have needed both Alonso and Vettel to drop out of the race, or for Button to finish ahead of Vettel, even if he had won. Had Webber finished 6th he (Webber) would have finished WDC runner up.

Edited by Tombstone, 15 November 2010 - 10:36.

[rodlamas]

Thanks guys, it's been a pleasure to spend this season with you!

Let's just hope the 26 makes it one better!

Bring 2011 on!

[teejay]

666 - appropriate. Its been a hellish season - to see we arnt fast enough, to see the brilliance of lewis get us ahead in the wdc for a while, and the pain of the wheels falling off.

Bring on 2011.

[f1rules]

as65p, on Nov 15 2010, 11:11, said:

Nothing has in yesterdays race changed re: the respective performance of Hamilton and Alonso when racing close to eachother, which my "cockiness" was all about. Instead yesterday they both fell into the same trap of being unable to overtake a Renault.

I fully understand the joy that Alonso and Ferrari lost, I really do. No problem.

But it's got nothing to do with me or what I said earlier in this thread.

I know i just wanted give a little back. Well im sure the sarcastic remarks will continue next year from both camps.

Edited by f1rules, 15 November 2010 - 11:37.

[as65p]

f1rules, on Nov 15 2010, 12:35, said:

I know i just wanted give a little back. Well im sure the sarcastic remarks will continue next year from both camps.

Yep. Looking forward to it!

[f1rules]

Me too

[robefc]

robefc, on Nov 15 2010, 10:17, said:

Hi Andy,

Thanks for all the insights this year and if we were ever critical it's only because we care so much and get frustrated!!

Did Lewis get the trophy because he picked up the fastest lap in Abu Dhabi? Because Alonso also got 5 FL this year so wondering why lewis wins? Although happy he did!

Unfortunately looks like he didn't get it.

The winner of the DHL Fastest Lap Award, however, is Fernando Alonso, who recorded five fastest laps during the season. Lewis Hamilton matched that figure, but Alonso holds the highest number of second-fastest laps.


http://www.formula1....0/11/11542.html

[Owen]

rodlamas, on Nov 15 2010, 10:31, said:

Thanks guys, it's been a pleasure to spend this season with you!

Let's just hope the 26 makes it one better!

Bring 2011 on!

Indeed. It's been an emotional rollercoaster this year for the Mac fans. And the 25 was good, but not quite enough for the top step sadly. Thanks to all those who contributed with a special mention to ATM Andy of course for his insights . Silver Limos for all the top contributors, silver Ladas to the non believers.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Anonymous]

http://motorsport.ne...-race-2/562.jpg
http://motorsport.ne...-race-2/569.jpg



Bye, MP4-25

[Lights]

Some other Abu Dhabi pics I found:

http://f1.f-e-n.net/...habiGP-L-04.jpg
http://f1.f-e-n.net/...habiGP-L-02.jpg
http://f1.f-e-n.net/...habiGP-L-20.jpg
http://f1.f-e-n.net/...habiGP-L-48.jpg

Indeed, bye MP4-25.

[Atreiu]

Hey, I want a Benz too!

[Anonymous]

Atreiu, on Nov 15 2010, 15:25, said:

Hey, I want a Benz too!

Here you go, bro.

[Atreiu]

LOL

I don't see anyone making comments on how McLaren faired against Mercedes. They jumped the team and decided to buy Brawn and do things their own way. I guess it goes without saying that they did miss all the resources McLaren brought into the team, including Hamilton and Button, and had a disappointing season with odd podiums and good races.

This is very important, IMO, because it does send out a very strong message to anyone who might want to join F1 when the rules and engines change in 2013. McLaren's expertise and knowledge is extremely worthy and they would be a great platform for those who want to join without starting from zero or by simply buying an existing team.

McLaren AUDI with turbo diesels, for example.

It does sound good, doesn't it?

PS: or is it really serious when people say McLaren plan on building their own engines in the future?

[tkulla]

Atreiu, on Nov 15 2010, 16:02, said:

LOL

I don't see anyone making comments on how McLaren faired against Mercedes. They jumped the team and decided to buy Brawn and do things their own way. I guess it goes without saying that they did miss all the resources McLaren brought into the team, including Hamilton and Button, and had a disappointing season with odd podiums and good races.

This is very important, IMO, because it does send out a very strong message to anyone who might want to join F1 when the rules and engines change in 2013. McLaren's expertise and knowledge is extremely worthy and they would be a great platform for those who want to join without starting from zero or by simply buying an existing team.

McLaren AUDI with turbo diesels, for example.

It does sound good, doesn't it?

PS: or is it really serious when people say McLaren plan on building their own engines in the future?

McLaren is a car company now, so there won't be any big partnerships in the future. They are on their way to becoming the "British Ferrari" and I don't see Ron veering from that course...

[femi]

tkulla, on Nov 15 2010, 16:31, said:

McLaren is a car company now, so there won't be any big partnerships in the future. They are on their way to becoming the "British Ferrari" and I don't see Ron veering from that course...

That is the goal I agree but until they can produce their own F1 racing engines that is extemely competitive they may not have a choice. I sincerely hope they can do that from 2013 onwards, I wouldn't want them going backwards due to inferior power plant though.

[Kimiraikkonen]

Owen, on Nov 15 2010, 14:31, said:

Indeed. It's been an emotional rollercoaster this year for the Mac fans. And the 25 was good, but not quite enough for the top step sadly. Thanks to all those who contributed with a special mention to ATM Andy of course for his insights . Silver Limos for all the top contributors, silver Ladas to the non believers.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I want a Benz!!!!!!!

[Kimiraikkonen]

ATM_Andy, on Nov 15 2010, 08:20, said:

That was a very long season, still, looking foward too next year now.

Some consolation, at the end Lewis took the DHL Fastest Lap Trophy from Fernando by getting his seasons 5th Fastest Lap in Abu Dhabi.

Congratulations Andy and all the team, Lewis,Gary and Jenson, amazing season with a great car and i hope next year win both championships.


Bye bye "the 25" , and Welcome to the Mclaren Vodafone Arrow MP 4-26.


I trust in this team, this season was a rollercoaster of emotions, thank you and take a deserved holidays, before the next year.


Regards mates!!!!

[Darth Sidious]

femi, on Nov 15 2010, 06:29, said:

I think the '25 did have a good mechanical grip until the team started introducing the EBD. I think the team should look very carefully on achieving this years DF without the DDD. There is always a way...I suspect a team might just surprise everybody by just doing that in 2011.

Not sure that's true. Traction has always seemed to be the achilles heel of the -25, that was evident from JJCale's comments on the pre-season testing that he saw, from the way Hamilton was unable to shake off Petrov in a faster car in Malaysia and had to resort to weaving to break the tow and why it was so difficult for him to challenge Kubica in Australia. Of course, I'm comparing the -25 with the Renault.

What we need next year is the Renault's traction, Red Bull aero and a stonking KERS and it's constructors' championship done by Spa.

Oh, quick edit - Congrats to ATM Andy and all at Woking. It was a hell of a ride.

Edited by Darth Sidious, 15 November 2010 - 17:40.

[Anonymous]

[Tombstone]

femi, on Nov 15 2010, 15:57, said:

That is the goal I agree but until they can produce their own F1 racing engines that is extemely competitive they may not have a choice. I sincerely hope they can do that from 2013 onwards, I wouldn't want them going backwards due to inferior power plant though.

Well, they'll have as much time as any other team to develop something suitable for '13. Of course, they do lack the R&D background in F1 powerplants, but given the wish to reduce costs and have a greater conformity between elements of design it may be that 'lateral' thinking becomes more of a factor than ever.

They could come out with all guns blazing in 2013, or all bodywork blazing if it all goes 'pete tong'.