821 replies to this topic

[ivanalesi]

It would be very interesting if anyone manages to find a SINGLE fact in Max' story which is not true.
Man, PR propaganda is still so strong these days...

[Anssi]

Let's see...

A) McLaren should have been completely banned from both of the F1 Championships in 2007. Yes I completely agree with this view.

It was a joke they only ban the constructor (but then let them continue fighting for a Championship any ways). In my opinion such decision made mockery of the whole sport and its rules and of dealing with industrial espionage cases in general.


B) McLaren should have been completely banned from both of the F1 Championships in 2008. Yes. With the big rule changes for 2009 it would have been possible to make them sit out 2008 and let them come back in in 2009 with a significantly different car as per the big rule changes (so most of the unfair advantage they gained would have been gone by then).


My initial reaction to the whole thing was that it should be taken to a proper court instead of just settling it within the sport. I think this because what happened was extremely serious and the punishments would have been more 'fair' imo had they been dealt by a proper court with people involved who are specialised in dealing with industrial espionage cases. Of course such a battle in the courts could take years and in the mean time McLaren still should not have been allowed to take part in the F1 Championships in 2007 & 2008 which would of course have been terrible to them.

So yes what McLaren got was in fact not harsh - they got away easy. Max Mosley is right, the $100 million fine was a little thing compared to what could have been if the case would have been handled properly. People could actually be serving time in a prison right now but they aren't. Perhaps thanks to Ferrari who has in fact been very kind to McLaren (and Nigel Stepney, of course) by not taking it to court full-force. I'm sure it was extremely difficult for them to resist the urge to do so and I am not sure I could have been held back had I been in their position.

Also thanks to the soft treatment by the FIA, strongly influenced by that man who makes mockery of the sporting values in favour of commercial values, Bernie Ecclestone.

Edited by Anssi, 13 December 2009 - 19:15.

[klover]

ivanalesi, on Dec 13 2009, 14:58, said:

It would be very interesting if anyone manages to find a SINGLE fact in Max' story which is not true.
Man, PR propaganda is still so strong these days...

It would be very interesting if anyone could explain why McLaren was targeted with such dedication, while Toyota and Renault were let go free. Not to mention the Benetton scandals in 1994 where apparently Max personally advised their lawyer what to say in order to escape ze punishment. McLaren's case was a classic political trial.

[JPW]

ivanalesi, on Dec 13 2009, 15:58, said:

Man, PR propaganda is still so strong these days...

Exactly, stories like this don't appear out of thin air they usually serve a purpose or goal.
Maybe a follow up story let's say just after Christmas in the Sunday Telegraph

[HP]

ivanalesi, on Dec 13 2009, 22:58, said:

It would be very interesting if anyone manages to find a SINGLE fact in Max' story which is not true.
Man, PR propaganda is still so strong these days...

As I wrote already, there was no news in that story at all. So what then is it all about?

[Slartibartfast]

ivanalesi, on Dec 13 2009, 14:58, said:

It would be very interesting if anyone manages to find a SINGLE fact in Max' story which is not true.
Man, PR propaganda is still so strong these days...

There are plenty of unverifiable claims in Mosley's account. And we all know the best place to hide a falsehood...

[Lazarus II]

Shouldn't anything Max has to say be in the Nostalgia forum?

[P123]

HP, on Dec 13 2009, 15:03, said:

As I wrote already, there was no news in that story at all. So what then is it all about?

Isn't ol' Max writing a book. Perhaps he requires a publisher.

[Sunflower]

HP, on Dec 13 2009, 17:03, said:

As I wrote already, there was no news in that story at all. So what then is it all about?

Could Flav be getting ready to spill some beans.

[jez6363]

If you read this thread with no background knowledge, it sounds like a lot of unjustified and irrational hatred of Mosley, with no reasoning behind it. The only people making much sense and giving any reasoning are the Mosley supporters, and a few people who are trying very hard to be unbiased.

If you want to froth and rant about Mosley, please could you do it elsewhere, because you will start to make people actually feel he was more right and more fair than he was.

FWIW my view is that Mosley was right about an awful lot of things, and people hated him because of that (esp. the manufacturers), and even though time has clearly shown he was right eg about costs and manufacturers leaving, people will never admit he was right about anything. He also seemed prone to bearing grudges, and appeared to behave with a lot of bias at times, favouring his favorites, which is a big reason why he was so disliked.

Each situation has to be considered in the context of the time, and saying that Max was the one that increased costs is meaningless because that was in a much more cash rich world - as finances changed, Mosley did try to adapt - unlike the F1 teams, with the consequences we now know.

And all the BS equating KERS with huge spending - omg give it a rest - innovation is almost never as expensive as incremental enhancement - in the past, teams managed to bring huge advances into F1 on a shoestring (active suspension, fans, wings etc) - the manufacturer teams became so bloated and inefficient it took them forever to implement a decent idea - in business it would be called empire building, and some teams had huge empires... Compare the innovative step of the first browser pretty much made by 1 guy in his bedroom with the bazillions Microsoft spend making minute improvements in internet explorer - its the same in F1.

Just because you don't like Mosley, don't assume he was always wrong - he was right a lot more than people believe - its just that being right is rarely enough...

[Chezrome]

I've said it once, I will say it again. A leader should not only have the right goals but also the right means. Mosley had worthy goals, but he always seemed convinced he was on the right side. Politicians like that often think the goals justify the means.

[undersquare]

jez6363, on Dec 13 2009, 17:37, said:

Just because you don't like Mosley, don't assume he was always wrong - he was right a lot more than people believe - its just that being right is rarely enough...

He was right about some commonsense things like the cost of gearboxes versus their value to fans. But the thing he was most right about in this sefl-promoting Telegraph article is that he weakened his genuine initiatives with his bias and vendettas. The teams would have welcomed strong leadership if only it had come with some integrity.

But IMO all the good things you can say about the Mosley era - safety mainly - are things that any president would have done.

[Rockets]

Stuko, on Dec 13 2009, 11:14, said:

So Ron is a liar and a cheater. (same kind of person as Max i think, .....and no so diferent to Flavio)
First call Ron-Max about sygate is nothing to do with Hungary qualy issue.
Lewis should thanks Ferrari and FIA part of his 2008 WDC.

so u should thx to fia and max for many wdc and wcc, they gave advantage to ferrari with secret agreement.

[Simon Says]

"A little later I got a call from Jean Todt with the extraordinary tale of the tip-off to Ferrari from a fan whose employer had been asked by Mike Coughlan's wife to copy the information."

IWhat a stupid women lol

[britishtrident]

Lazarus II, on Dec 13 2009, 15:30, said:

Shouldn't anything Max has to say be in the Nostalgia forum?

Nostalgia & Max in the same sentence ? I am not sure if it fits the definition of a an oxymoron but it comes pretty close.

[halifaxf1fan]

Stuko, on Dec 13 2009, 13:54, said:

What Max says is not 2007 development, but 2008 development (Lewis WDC):

"The most appropriate one was to exclude them from the championship. But there was also 2008 to consider. They had had this information in the crucial April to July period during which the following year's car takes shape. They would have had the benefit of the combined knowledge of McLaren and Ferrari in developing their 2008 car. "

"Despite the large sum involved, McLaren knew they had got off lightly, particularly after checks on the 2008 car revealed further devastating evidence. One email exchange between engineers responsible for the 2007 and 2008 cars asked whether information had come "from our mole" at Ferrari. "

well this screws the pooch for Hamiltons 2008 wdc. unfortunately it is as we thought, the 2008 mclaren rode on ferrari technology. quite a shame really for f1 and for the fans especially. anyway hamiltons wdc has a full can of taint sprayed on it thats for sure.

ps. maybe this is why Lewis tried his best to loose the championship in that final race in Brazil. he might just have a bit of honour in him.

[britishtrident]

jez6363, on Dec 13 2009, 17:37, said:

If you read this thread with no background knowledge, it sounds like a lot of unjustified and irrational hatred of Mosley, with no reasoning behind it. The only people making much sense and giving any reasoning are the Mosley supporters, and a few people who are trying very hard to be unbiased.

If you want to froth and rant about Mosley, please could you do it elsewhere, because you will start to make people actually feel he was more right and more fair than he was.

Lot of snipping

FWIW my view is that Mosley was right about an awful lot of things,

Lots more snipped

He appeared right about a lot of things because he engineered a lot things so he could look self righteous, much the same sort ploys his father used in his political activities.

[britishtrident]

Simon Says, on Dec 13 2009, 18:15, said:

"A little later I got a call from Jean Todt with the extraordinary tale of the tip-off to Ferrari from a fan whose employer had been asked by Mike Coughlan's wife to copy the information."

IWhat a stupid women lol

I am reliably informed all teams require now require the partners of engineers to sit an IQ test.

[potmotr]

undersquare, on Dec 13 2009, 11:17, said:

Agree. I think he really wanted to be remembered as a great man, who did great things, now he's struggling to cope with the reality - the paddock saw him as an unpleasant old perv and were just glad to see the back of him.

The article is a rather pathetic attempt at self-justificatiion. Good to know that ultimately his vile reign ended with this sense of rejection and failure .

My thoughts exactly.

He's yesterday's man.

I can't even really be bothered posting about him, he's that pathetic.

I thought I might be interested in buying his book, but the Telegraph extract shows how totally awful it would be.

[Lazarus II]

britishtrident, on Dec 13 2009, 13:17, said:

Nostalgia & Max in the same sentence ? I am not sure if it fits the definition of a an oxymoron but it comes pretty close.

Good catch

[New Britain]

jez6363, on Dec 13 2009, 17:37, said:

Just because you don't like Mosley, don't assume he was always wrong - he was right a lot more than people believe - its just that being right is rarely enough...

No one has ever suggested that Max was "always" wrong. Even a blind hog will occasionally find an acorn.

As you seem to be sympathetic to much of what Max did, would you please share with us your thoughts on the single most far-ranging act of his 18-year reign?
Namely, what do you think about his arranging for the FIA to sell to Bernie the 100-year commercial rights in a secret, non-competitive deal? The FIA sold the rights to Bernie for roughly $300m, whilst Bernie was concurrently selling his company, the main asset of which was the commercial rights, for about $2.5b.
How does that work?

[Anssi]

jez6363 I agree with your post 100 %. Rated you up for your well-reasoned post.

[Lazarus II]

New Britain, on Dec 13 2009, 14:16, said:

No one has ever suggested that Max was "always" wrong. Even a blind hog will occasionally find an acorn.

As you seem to be sympathetic to much of what Max did, would you please share with us your thoughts on the single most far-ranging act of his 18-year reign?
Namely, what do you think about his arranging for the FIA to sell to Bernie the 100-year commercial rights in a secret, non-competitive deal? The FIA sold the rights to Bernie for roughly $300m, whilst Bernie was concurrently selling his company, the main asset of which was the commercial rights, for about $2.5b.
How does that work?

You see, Max is just a bad negotiator. Otherwise he's just a wonderful chap. If you read what Max says (and nothing else) he's clairvoyant. He saw the doom and gloom of a colapsing world economy and no one would listen to him - probably something to do with him trying to live down his family name.

His poor negotiating skills lead to:
- Benetton being let off for running an illegal car.
- Benetton being allowed to tamper with the fuel rigs.
- Bernie buying F1 for pennies on the dollar.

I'm sure I've left out plenty more, but that should get it started.

[Anomnader]

Anssi, on Dec 13 2009, 19:18, said:

jez6363 I agree with your post 100 %. Rated you up for your well-reasoned post.

Thats ok, if everyone was treated the same by mosely and his supporters, we should have thrown renault out, Ferrari should have being banned from the sport for ever for breaking into Williams garage.

The people in here are like sharks, some of the ferrari fans, JPM, and some alonso fans due to their hatred of McLaren the site of blood they go into a feeding frenzy, doesn't matter if they turn a eye to other stuff that makes them a hypocrite or anything, eg: JPM, a big supporter of Max, who has being proven to be a perver a liar and cheat, who has in the past twisted evidence and stewards results, tried to fix elections, but for him the sun shines out of his whipped behind.

[Slartibartfast]

jez6363, on Dec 13 2009, 17:37, said:

If you read this thread with no background knowledge, it sounds like a lot of unjustified and irrational hatred of Mosley, with no reasoning behind it....

You are right, one should never make assumptions about the prior knowledge of one's audience.
http://forums.autosp.....hlite=+mosley

[Stuko]

Rockets, on Dec 13 2009, 19:09, said:

so u should thx to fia and max for many wdc and wcc, they gave advantage to ferrari with secret agreement.

me? why?
Only a Ferrari fanboy coud think Ron isn´t fair? It´s too short-view, don´t think so?
I´m so Ferrari fanboy as McLaren fanboy: not much. For me two historic teams in F1 with not fair chairmen sometimes (just like Fia, and just like other teams). And yes, i think is sad for F1. (Fia, Mc, ferrari, renault, williams, or whatever cheating)

[Fortymark]

A ban would also have destroyed the great championship battle which was going on between Lewis Hamilton and Kimi Raikkonen.

In Aug the championship battle was between Lewis and Alonso....
Lewis had 80 points after Hungary and Kimi had 60.

[Lazarus II]

Fortymark, on Dec 13 2009, 15:13, said:

A ban would also have destroyed the great championship battle which was going on between Lewis Hamilton and Kimi Raikkonen.

In Aug the championship battle was between Lewis and Alonso....
Lewis had 80 points after Hungary and Kimi had 60.

Woooooow Cowboy. Max has gone to all this trouble to revise history and I for one think you need to read it with a bit more of an open mind.

Just drink the kool-aid

[Fortymark]

Lazarus II, on Dec 13 2009, 22:27, said:

Woooooow Cowboy. Max has gone to all this trouble to revise history and I for one think you need to read it with a bit more of an open mind.

Just drink the kool-aid

No but to me it´s clear that he doesn´t know what he´s talking about and have
the story twisted to suit his agenda. Why take him seriously if he can´t even remember
the 2007 season?
Kimi was more or less out of championship battle since mid season 2007 but had a last minute chance due
to screw-ups by both Lewis and Alonso.

[JPW]

jez6363, on Dec 13 2009, 18:37, said:

If you read this thread with no background knowledge, it sounds like a lot of unjustified and irrational hatred of Mosley, with no reasoning behind it.

Just because you don't like Mosley, don't assume he was always wrong - he was right a lot more than people believe - its just that being right is rarely enough...

Oh well you know how it is, nothing but good ole Max to get the blood boiling with some here

Like someone else said here before, if he had stated that the sky was blue or the sea was wet some would have still disagreed with him out of principle, they just can't help themselves.

Of course Max was right on a lot of things and retirement must be sweet when you see things developing just like you said they would.
This article in The Telegraph is just a prelude imo, the 2007 macca spying/cheating scandal needed a bit of perspective so he added his pov but there's more to come I think.

A bit in January when Flavio is laughed out of court and some more on Spankgate just before the season starts.

[VoidNT]

New Britain, on Dec 13 2009, 17:44, said:

This sums up the whole affair:

Although no one on the council believed them, we had to acquit. Concrete evidence of use by McLaren of the Ferrari information was simply not there. Without it, McLaren would have won an appeal to the FIA International Court of Appeal (ICA).
Ferrari were understandably furious. I even had a lengthy call from Fiat chief executive Sergio Marchionne, who is someone to be taken seriously. All I could do was say that without evidence, we could not convict, however much we might believe them to be guilty.


Mosley just "knew" that they were guilty - even though there was no evidence of it.

[Hairpin]

jez6363, on Dec 13 2009, 18:37, said:

If you read this thread with no background knowledge, it sounds like a lot of unjustified and irrational hatred of Mosley, with no reasoning behind it. The only people making much sense and giving any reasoning are the Mosley supporters, and a few people who are trying very hard to be unbiased.

If you want to froth and rant about Mosley, please could you do it elsewhere, because you will start to make people actually feel he was more right and more fair than he was.

You are right, of course. But it also shows why guys like Mosley almost always win. No matter how obvious it is, they will never admit a loss. In the beginning people will try to argue and prove him wrong and if he was wrong they will probably succeed to prove it. But as soon as they have finished, he stands up again and say that he was misunderstood and was indeed right all along. Some will agree with him, saying, "look, he is right" and some will take up the task of proving him wrong again. Like a weed, he will rise up again, explaining he was misunderstood and not wrong at all. This time less people will bother to go through the whole process of proving him wrong and more people will believe him. Each time it is repeated, he will meet less an less resistance.

Those who have followed Max has seen that article before. Not exactly that one, but it is full of typical Mosley rhetoric and it is obvious it does want to reveal anything of the actual story, each word is there to make Max look good. As someone say, the only interesting thing with that article is the stuff that is not written.

So yes, in a situation like this, most people who is already decided in their opinion about Max will fire away something half assed that does not really prove their case, just to indicate their position. The "Max defenders" will have no problems dismantling such arguments and use them for their own benefit. That is the way it goes. Max knows it.

[Ricardo F1]

halifaxf1fan, on Dec 13 2009, 10:23, said:

well this screws the pooch for Hamiltons 2008 wdc. unfortunately it is as we thought, the 2008 mclaren rode on ferrari technology. quite a shame really for f1 and for the fans especially. anyway hamiltons wdc has a full can of taint sprayed on it thats for sure.

Is it really possible for someone to have not read anything in detail about 2007/2008?

[undersquare]

Hairpin, on Dec 13 2009, 21:40, said:

The "Max defenders" will have no problems dismantling such arguments and use them for their own benefit. That is the way it goes. Max knows it.

Au contraire, mon ami! Max is defined by his supporters .

[New Britain]

Hairpin, on Dec 13 2009, 21:40, said:

So yes, in a situation like this, most people who is already decided in their opinion about Max will fire away something half assed that does not really prove their case, just to indicate their position. The "Max defenders" will have no problems dismantling such arguments and use them for their own benefit. That is the way it goes. Max knows it.

If what you are suggesting were true, why would Mosley have bothered to write the article?
Mosley is asserting, yet again, his version of events precisely because he knows that no intelligent person to date has believed what he has said.

[Hairpin]

New Britain, on Dec 13 2009, 23:25, said:

If what you are suggesting were true, why would Mosley have bothered to write the article?
Mosley is asserting, yet again, his version of events precisely because he knows that no intelligent person to date has believed what he has said.

Because, just as I said, those who have the intellectual power to dismantle his bullshit will eventually get tired of doing so and he will stand un-corrected.

[Slartibartfast]

JPW, on Dec 13 2009, 21:07, said:

Oh well you know how it is, nothing but good ole Max to get the blood boiling with some here

Like someone else said here before, if he had stated that the sky was blue or the sea was wet some would have still disagreed with him out of principle, they just can't help themselves.

Of course Max was right on a lot of things and retirement must be sweet when you see things developing just like you said they would.
This article in The Telegraph is just a prelude imo, the 2007 macca spying/cheating scandal needed a bit of perspective so he added his pov but there's more to come I think.

A bit in January when Flavio is laughed out of court and some more on Spankgate just before the season starts.

You know me too well! Has anyone taken the username "Pavlov's Dog"?

[HP]

Chezrome, on Dec 14 2009, 01:45, said:

I've said it once, I will say it again. A leader should not only have the right goals but also the right means. Mosley had worthy goals, but he always seemed convinced he was on the right side. Politicians like that often think the goals justify the means.

+1

That's basically it. He's very, very intelligent. Unfortunately he uses his intellect more often to put down people that opposed him and display his (perceived) intellectual superiority, instead trying a conciliatory approach and trying to pull people up by treating them with respect and continue to explain things. And instead of making up for this deficit and having someone on his team that was able to mend fences he surrounded himself with folks with similar attitudes to him. It's IMO an elitist approach, which is bound to cause more trouble than it solves issues. Nobody likes to be looked down to. It also reveals a lack of patience on Mosleys side, which we can see from the interval of changes to the regulations under his term.

He might have a point to claim that he wasn't autocratic. Because if he truly was, then he would have done more about cost cutting much earlier. After all, Ron Dennis realised it too right after September 2001. There were about 7 years to prepare for it. And that begs the question. If he's such an intelligent guy, why was he unable to prepare F1 for harder times? I think I know that answer. In any case the article sounded like an array of excuses to me.

IMO he could have done a lot more good if he had made efforts to be on better terms with folks like Sir Jackie Stewart, Frank Williams and Ron Dennis. Especially Jackie Stewart is IMO one of the best ambassadors that the sport could wish for. Why did Mosley constantly alienating him, rather to try and use synergy? F1 could be much better off. Not to mention that both of them seem motivated to improve safety in motor racing in general.

I mean really what good does it to be able to say I was right all along, aside from personal satisfaction? Had F1 completely imploded, then it might be obvious to everyone, where the folly in such an attitude lies. However had Mosley acted back in 2001 or even before, then teams wouldn't have grown that large and now a lot of the folks having to look for a new job would never have been put into this position, since they might be earning their livelihood elsewhere. But what does it matter to someone that comes from a wealthy home?

Anyway. Never let a politician at heart run a human enterprise. The politician is in love with his ideas, not with the population that are required to make ideas work. And if things go wrong there's conveniently the population to blame for too.

[icecream_man]

Ricardo F1, on Dec 13 2009, 06:03, said:

Kinda relies on you believing a single word Max Mosley says. I kinda got over that barrier some years ago. Max at this point is sounding very much like Dick Cheney.

Just what I was thinking, there's 2 sides to every story, FOTA's will be radically different, and the truth will be somewhere in the middle.

Whatever that truth is I don't much care, I'll remember the bloke for wrecking 10+ years of racing by cutting back on mechanical grip while everyone with a shred of common sense was screaming "don't do that, it'll kill overtaking....."

[PassWind]

Hairpin, on Dec 13 2009, 22:27, said:

Because, just as I said, those who have the intellectual power to dismantle his bullshit will eventually get tired of doing so and he will stand un-corrected.

There is nothing intellectual about denial for self gratification.

[senna da silva]

Since when are lawyers allowed to raid houses?

Die already Max!

[ensign14]

senna da silva, on Dec 14 2009, 05:19, said:

Since when are lawyers allowed to raid houses?

Since 1975.

[hsvone]

Heh away from the board for 3 weeks and what do I find as a recent post? Something about Max Mosley.

Just glad next season there will be no Max to talk about - well hopefully not.

Doesn't look like I've missed much anyway.

[Simon Says]

halifaxf1fan, on Dec 13 2009, 19:23, said:

well this screws the pooch for Hamiltons 2008 wdc. unfortunately it is as we thought, the 2008 mclaren rode on ferrari technology. quite a shame really for f1 and for the fans especially. anyway hamiltons wdc has a full can of taint sprayed on it thats for sure.

ps. maybe this is why Lewis tried his best to loose the championship in that final race in Brazil. he might just have a bit of honour in him.

The 2008 Mclaren didn't rode on Ferrari technology, else they would have been banned. In the end, Lewis won the WDC with a car that had to be changed quickly in order to meet the FIA demands. No wonder Mclaren struggled to beat BMW in the first half of the season with a car that was quickly designed

While Ferrari had Mclaren technology all along, the entire front wing came from Mclaren after the bought a Mclaren aerodynamist. But I suppose that's a legal way to steal Mclaren IP

[Clatter]

hsvone, on Dec 14 2009, 06:12, said:

Heh away from the board for 3 weeks and what do I find as a recent post? Something about Max Mosley.

Just glad next season there will be no Max to talk about - well hopefully not.

Doesn't look like I've missed much anyway.

I think thats just wishful thinking. He will keep popping up like a bad smell whenever he wants a bit of attention.

[Rinehart]

Dear Mr Mosley.

Just go away. As was agreed by the F1 community.

If and when the USF1 team doesn't make the grid, you may return to explain how a team of limited budget (as per your vision of sustainability) is, after all, no more a secure fixture on the grid than a billion pound manufactuer one. And you might also chose to explain your new team selection criteria in this light. I suspect its no less contoversial than your FIA reign in its entirety.

Other than that your politically and vidictively laced comments (towards institutions such as McLaren and Ferrari) are unwelcome.

Regards,

The majority of the F1 community and fans.

[Mansell4PM]

Clatter, on Dec 14 2009, 08:42, said:

I think thats just wishful thinking. He will keep popping up like a bad smell whenever he wants a bit of attention.

To continue your analogy, when he was in charge was he not more like a fart in a spacesuit?

i.e. unpleasant, all-pervading, and attempting to get rid of him would have been suicidal.

[New Britain]

Hairpin, on Dec 13 2009, 22:27, said:

Because, just as I said, those who have the intellectual power to dismantle his bullshit will eventually get tired of doing so and he will stand un-corrected.

His old man's been dead for nearly 30 years. Nonetheless, there are still plenty of people ready and able to disabuse the world of the elder *******'s attempts to rewrite history.
In the case of the son, it's more likely that his misstatements would stand uncorrected because ultimately no one will give a damn about him.

[Boing 2]

same old same old eh Maxie?

I was right, everybody else was wrong!

Everything I did was for the good of the sport!

I saw it all coming, only I can save F1!


etc etc etc.


Now that he's been kicked out i guess we can sit back and have a giggle at the guy but really, why would anyone buy into this sad old mans sorry, self-aggrandising fantasies?

After 18 years in power nearly every team boss wanted him out, 90% of the fans wanted him out and almost every F1 journalist wanted him out.

That tells you all you need to know.

The best thing Max ever did for F1 was walk out the door.

[Hairpin]

New Britain, on Dec 14 2009, 13:49, said:

His old man's been dead for nearly 30 years. Nonetheless, there are still plenty of people ready and able to disabuse the world of the elder *******'s attempts to rewrite history.
In the case of the son, it's more likely that his misstatements would stand uncorrected because ultimately no one will give a damn about him.

Exactly, but he is a guy that wants the last word.