20 replies to this topic

[Oxford]

why arent there any go's anymore on ciruits like bremgarten? with al little adjustment it is very safe to drive there

[Michael M]

After the 1955 Le Mans accident circuit racing has been banned in Switzerland, legislation which is still in force today.

[Oxford]

Too bad, because that was a real cool circuit

[Don Capps]

I never saw a race on the circuit, the 1955 race for which we already had lodging reserved being cancelled, I did see the circuit several times on my travels through Switzerland. Even at an early age, I could see that it was obvious that it could bite you real hard. I have always regretted being sick and missing the 1954 race...but, after what they saw at Le Mans in 1955 (I was there...), the Swiss were brooking no such nonsense in their midst and That was That... Today, most have no idea of the impact that Le Mans 1955 had in Europe. The Swiss Powers-that-be only tolerated the race because it made lots of SF for the Confederation. When it became a possible source of trouble, Next!...

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…

[This message has been edited by Don Capps (edited 04-18-2000).]

[William Dale Jr]

Perhaps nowdays it may be safe, but several people were killed there, and if my memory serves me right, Achille Varzi was one of them.

In any case, if you have GP2, you can always download it and race it...

[Witt]

It's my all time favourite GP2 circuit, and for that very reason is why i am so interested in this place. I'm not sure how accurate it is, however.

Does anyone know where i can see some good photo's of this track? I can't find many books with articles or stories about this place, either. Any recommendations? - Thanks.

[BRG]

I knew nothing about this track, but a quick look at the entry in the track database on the silhouet website is interesting. It confirms that Varzi (and another driver, Kautz) was killed there in 1948. Fangio holds the lap record from 1954.

The map suggests that this was a purpose built track. Was that so? And what has happened to it since?

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BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[Oxford]

Which site do you mean BRG? Could you give me the URL?

[Marco94]

Witt,

There is a book about the Swiss GP, by Swiss athor Adriano Cimarosti. I think it's called "Grand Prix de Suise", but I'm not sure.

Marco.

[Leif Snellman]

Bremgarten. A high speed circuit, lined with trees and with a surface of cobbled stones . A deadly combination, especially in rain. It was the same problems as at Hockenheim, the trees pushed the water back hindering the track from drying. British driver Hugh Hamilton, had a fatal crash there in 1934 as did ex Auto Union driver Christian Kautz and Achille Varzi in 1948 and Mercedes drivers Hanns Geier and Rudolf Caracciola both had career ending crashes there(in 1936 and 1954).
Before the war it was considered one of the best organized races but in 1947 spectator control broke down completely as there were no footbridges and three spectators died when they crossed the track.

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Leif Snellman
The Golden Era of Grand Prix Racing
http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman

[BRG]

Oxford

It is Darren Galpin's site, the GEL Motorsport Index at http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport

It is an excellent reference - if you go through to the other results archive, it covers almost everything you can think of.

The track database is very good and covers all sorts of places I had long forgotten about! Atlas's own FORIX is very good for stats, of course, but this site is a great additional source of info.

Leif

Cobbles? The only cobbled bit of race track I can remember was the Nouveau Monde haairpin at Rouen-les-Essarts. Was Bremgarten all cobbled? If so, then no wonder it was so lethal.

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BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"



[This message has been edited by BRG (edited 04-18-2000).]

[Jhope]

If anyone wants the track for GP2, here is the URL to the authors site.
http://www.asit.ch/~...s/br54/BR54.ZIP

His name is Addie Walti, and he has contributed to track editing for GP2 like no one else ever has. If you could drop him a line and tell him how good his work is, i'm sure he would appreciate it.

Link to the bremgarten section on his page:
http://www.asit.ch/~...cks/bremer.html

His e-mail adress:
mailto: addie@asit.ch

have fun with it, I know i STILL am.

[Psychoman]

That Bremgarten track is amazing, I looked at it with replay, it was just unbelievable to watch; sadly, I haven't gotten that far in my season (it's been on hold while I look for GPL ) As for Swiss racing, wasn't there a guy in Swiss government that was a racer once who tried to get racing legalized???

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"Hey there, all you middle men
Throw away your fancy clothes
And while you're out there sittin' on a fence
So get off your ass and come down here
'Cause rock 'n' roll ain't no riddle man
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-Brian Johnson
SHAMELESS PROMOTION--check out my website! Like the Atlas newsroom, only worse!
http://mrpsycho61636...d.com/home.html

[Racer.Demon]

BRG: I think Joao Paulo Cunha, the man behind Forix, would not be pleased to read his site was "Atlas's own"... Forix is just a partner site to Atlas (or 'Associate', as Atlas calls it). To go one further: I'd say Forix is more linked with motorsport.com than with Atlas, and also has associations with DD's site, 8W and DailyF1. It's just being nice to each other ;)

Incidentally, I totally agree with on Darren's site being an excellent reference site. Darren has been around on the Web longer than most of us and his GEL site is one of the true pioneers among F1 web sites.

[Leif Snellman]

BRG

I don't know exactly which parts of Bremgarten were cobbled but Bruce Jones' "Encyclopedia of Formula 1" says "for much of its distance". That can also be seen on
old photos.

[Don Capps]

I have a wonderful book by Rene Haefeli by thr title of Verstummte Motoren, Die Geschichte des Schweizer Grand Prix published by Benteli Verlag, Berne in 1969.

From leafing through the book the circuit was apparently surfaced ALL the way around in cobblestone. Some places seem to be paved with a macadam surface, but then you look again and....

The book has some wonderful pictures in it. There are some pix from the 1934 races which show Dick Seaman, Hans Kessler, Hans Ruesch and others wearing helmets, not the norm for the day...

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…

[Dennis David]

Actually the book to have is Cimarosti's Grand Prix Suisse which covers the history of the GP and runs over 600 gorgeous pages! Unfortunatly it put me back $300+ I'll post some pictures this weekend.

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Regards,

Dennis David
Grand Prix History

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

[BRG]

Originally posted by Racer.Demon:
[B]BRG: I think Joao Paulo Cunha, the man behind Forix, would not be pleased to read his site was "Atlas's own"... /B]

Grovelling apologies!! In an attempt not to overlook FORIX whilst praising GEL, I obviously got it wrong!


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BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[Dennis David]

Ditto the remarks about Darren’s site. It was one of the first sites I turned to. There is something to be said for longevity

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Regards,

Dennis David
Grand Prix History

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

[Oxford]

BRG and Leif Snellman> Just before Start/Finish, you come out of the woods, in that part the street is cobbled. But can't they change that then. I think its really to bad that there arent an exciting bends in F1 anymore.

[Ray Bell]

I recall DSJ writing in 'Continental Notes' about the sadness of driving down that stretch of road, the grandstands decaying... It was obviously public roads, as was just about everything that dated back to the thirties.
It is one of the circuits I want to see, so many people have written so many complimentary things about it. Maybe one day...
In the meantime, they ran the Swiss GP at Dijon just so Keke could win a race in his championship year...
And the 1955 Le Mans had repercussions in Western Australia, where a number of towns annually ran races through their streets. Most were cancelled and never reappeared, though fresh towns came to the party later. A very different set of circumstances to the rest of the world, the WA racing scene...
There can be little doubt that it also contributed to the NSW Speedways Act of 1957, considered draconian at the time, and a bombshell for three NSW circuits, but it was to set the standard for the whole country when the march to safety began in earnest.

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[This message has been edited by Ray Bell (edited 04-20-2000).]