12 replies to this topic

[raoul leDuke]

Cliff's daughter, Julie, kindly sent me this lovely picture of Cliff with Stirling Moss. They appear to standing outside a stadium in front of a couple of Midget race cars. Now Speedworth tried to re-introduce Midget racing in the UK in 1967 but the RAC would not sanction it and threatened to withdraw the licence from anyone who took part in their races.

I can only presume that Stirling was there to test a car on a stadium track. Does anyone know if this is correct? If it was 1967 doesn't Moss look a little young as he would have been 38?

[David McKinney]

Welcome back, Raoul

Cliff Davis must have looked like that by 1967

[hansfohr]

Quote from 'Classic driver' (january 1972)

"Stirling Moss was spotted at White City Stadium, helping his old friend Cliff Davis relaunch Midget Racing. These were old-fashioned, small, front-engined, Indy-style racers which ran on short oval circuits within stadium venues. However, after a flurry of interest the midgets were soon back on their knees, so to speak: the idea never took off strongly in the UK."

A few months later Davis and Moss met again at Harringey Stadium:
http://www.ovaltrack...972_01_july.htm

Probably a pic shot on one of these occasions?

Edited by hansfohr, 04 March 2010 - 21:25.

[simonlewisbooks]

Moss was one of several leading drivers (Graham Hill was another I think) who lent their backing to Midgets around this time as a potential "starter formula" but the RAC position and an ill-advised shift to rear engined cars kept the formula from making the kind of impact that was hoped for. Several writers suggest the original concept was good and for a while, quite popular when small oval racing of any kind was really in it's prime, but then very minimalist looking home-built mid engined cars started to dominate and the whole thing lost any real visible connection to the American scene on which it drew it's original inspiration.

Years ago I bought a Terrapin from a guy called Mark Hodges who raced in Midgets and later became one of the front runners. He intended to use the car as a midget but it's short wheelbase was still several inches too long for the regulations!

I've only ever seen midgets race once, on soaking wet tarmac at Northampton stadium and although willing to be impressed (I have always had a liking for home-built single seaters) I must confess they didn't seem, to me, to be very exciting to watch. Maybe in the dry and in greater numbers....?

[raoul leDuke]

Thanks David! Nice to be back.

Just received this from Sylvia Davis:

Stirling was President of our very successful Midget Auto Racing Club so this may have been at one of our test days at the White City Stadium where celebrities were able to have a drive and the late great Raymond Baxter got the fastest lap.

The location is definitely White City.

[hansfohr]

Stirling was President of our very successful Midget Auto Racing Club so this may have been at one of our test days at the White City Stadium where celebrities were able to have a drive and the late great Raymond Baxter got the fastest lap.

The location is definitely White City.

So my gamble turned out to be right.

[r.atlos]

The occasion was the Midget Press Day, held at White City Stadium in November 1971. Sir Stirling has been demonstrating Cliff's ex-Les Leston Dastle Type 7 that day.

The MARC (Midget Auto Racing Club) had been set up by 1970 to promote Midget racing in a more "stylish" way than the original efforts of Spedeworth in 1968 suggested. Originally, there had been a couple of purpose-built Dastle Type 3 around but also too high a number of awful home-brew specials. There must have been a common understanding that Midget racing could only have a decent place in stadium racing if they were presented in a nice and professional way. It appears that Spedeworth did not support that strongly enough which finally led to the creation of MARC.

The Type 3 with the driver sitting above the propshaft looked a bit too "retro"; thus, Geoff Rumble (the man behind Dastle) developed Type 7 for the 1971 season: Engine, gearbox and that tiny little bit of propshaft were now off-set to the driver's left and gave the car a much sleeker, lower appearance. Paul Emery, Pete Smith and Les Leston have been the first three customers for a Type 7 while Geoff Rumble himself raced his personal car (apparently n°3 off the line) during the entire 1971 season.

If I remember well, Les' car took fire in one of the early races of 1971. It seems he was slightly disgusted with that and sold his car to Cliff before mid-season. It was the only car that used an XPAG engine - apparently a good choice for a short oval as it had more torque from low down than any of the short-stroke Kent engines or Emery's Imps.

1972 was supposed to be MARC's great year: Other than Cliff and Paul there were some more "household" names to join Midget racing. Peter Jopp was one of them as were Charles Lucas and Tony Stubbs. President in 1972 was Graham Hill, VP was Raymond Mays, Chairman Cliff Davis and Vice Chairman Paul Emery.

Beside a number of Dastle Type 7 and Type 3 there have been a sole Kitchener and a number of Fireball - both rear-engined and front-engined.

I think to remember that it must have been in 1973 that the Midget community broke apart: The MARC continued with their polished, shiny cars while Spedeworth (re- ?)launched their own Midget class and allowed cars of doubtful presentation.

I had the luck of coming across a Type 7 hillclimb special (of which much of its history is still lost in the darkness of time) which I restored and raced on odd occasions as FL classes allowed. Great fun - but you feel extremely exposed on a real racing track ... I have also owned the ex-Leston / Davis Type 7 as a basket case for quite some time but never got around to restoring it. Good memories, though and as you can tell from these lines I have done quite some digging into the history of Midget racing as a result.

Edited by r.atlos, 05 March 2010 - 23:37.

[r.atlos]

With these memories I could not resist browsing through some of my files and there is one thing I need to correct: The Dastle Type 7 was built for the 1970 seaon, not for the 1971 season. Paul Emery was racing one already on 12/07/1970 at Lydden Hill.

Another celebrity to join MARC in 1970 was "Bubbles" Horsley. He used to race (briefly) the very first Type 3 ("The Demonstrator" Originally sold off the John Houghton for 1968/1969 (and raced by him as "Black Caramba"), it passed on to "Bubbles" for the 1970 season. At some point by mid-season, "Bubbles" found a brand-new Capri race-controll car in his way at Cross-in-Hand when he needed some "room to move" during an off-track excursion. Although "Bubbles", the Capri and the Dastle all survived that crash, damage was in reverse order of their listing. It was then Cliff Davis' son Chris who rebuilt the Type 3 and raced it during the later part of the season and 1972.

[r.atlos]

This is Paul Emery and his Type 7 in 1971:


Copyright: Brian Spicer

[corsa61]

[quote name='hansfohr' date='Mar 5 2010, 08:39' post='4195124']
So my gamble turned out to be right.
[/ quote Reading the post with reference to Cliff Davis son racing the Dastle MK3 . Chris raced the car in 1971 and in the close season was sold to Roy Watts and Don Bray it stayed in the same colour scheme that Chris had , the only advertising was that of RoyDon Cars ,which was a small second hand car sales showroom on King Street Hammersmith. Roy Watts was the driver with Don Bray lending support , the car was raced as car 28 . Roy and Don sold the car to my father Arthur Knowlton one of three serving police officers who raced with the M A R C .
Chris Davis for 1972 raced a one off Midget that was built from a converted Formula Ford chassis and for the 72 season was sponsered by Car Advertiser magazine in dayglo red along with his father Cliff . Cliff ran as car number 12 and Chris number 11

[corsa61]

The occasion was the Midget Press Day, held at White City Stadium in November 1971. Sir Stirling has been demonstrating Cliff's ex-Les Leston Dastle Type 7 that day.

The MARC (Midget Auto Racing Club) had been set up by 1970 to promote Midget racing in a more "stylish" way than the original efforts of Spedeworth in 1968 suggested. Originally, there had been a couple of purpose-built Dastle Type 3 around but also too high a number of awful home-brew specials. There must have been a common understanding that Midget racing could only have a decent place in stadium racing if they were presented in a nice and professional way. It appears that Spedeworth did not support that strongly enough which finally led to the creation of MARC.

The Type 3 with the driver sitting above the propshaft looked a bit too "retro"; thus, Geoff Rumble (the man behind Dastle) developed Type 7 for the 1971 season: Engine, gearbox and that tiny little bit of propshaft were now off-set to the driver's left and gave the car a much sleeker, lower appearance. Paul Emery, Pete Smith and Les Leston have been the first three customers for a Type 7 while Geoff Rumble himself raced his personal car (apparently n°3 off the line) during the entire 1971 season.

If I remember well, Les' car took fire in one of the early races of 1971. It seems he was slightly disgusted with that and sold his car to Cliff before mid-season. It was the only car that used an XPAG engine - apparently a good choice for a short oval as it had more torque from low down than any of the short-stroke Kent engines or Emery's Imps.

1972 was supposed to be MARC's great year: Other than Cliff and Paul there were some more "household" names to join Midget racing. Peter Jopp was one of them as were Charles Lucas and Tony Stubbs. President in 1972 was Graham Hill, VP was Raymond Mays, Chairman Cliff Davis and Vice Chairman Paul Emery.

Beside a number of Dastle Type 7 and Type 3 there have been a sole Kitchener and a number of Fireball - both rear-engined and front-engined.

I think to remember that it must have been in 1973 that the Midget community broke apart: The MARC continued with their polished, shiny cars while Spedeworth (re- ?)launched their own Midget class and allowed cars of doubtful presentation.

I had the luck of coming across a Type 7 hillclimb special (of which much of its history is still lost in the darkness of time) which I restored and raced on odd occasions as FL classes allowed. Great fun - but you feel extremely exposed on a real racing track ... I have also owned the ex-Leston / Davis Type 7 as a basket case for quite some time but never got around to restoring it. Good memories, though and as you can tell from these lines I have done quite some digging into the history of Midget racing as a result.

The Fireball midgets were nothing to do with M A R C they were built by a Spedeworth member . Maybe someone confusing it with the Mamba rear engined Mini powered car raced by John Graham and shared with Ibelieve Dan Hornby ?

[corsa61]

Cliff's daughter, Julie, kindly sent me this lovely picture of Cliff with Stirling Moss. They appear to standing outside a stadium in front of a couple of Midget race cars. Now Speedworth tried to re-introduce Midget racing in the UK in 1967 but the RAC would not sanction it and threatened to withdraw the licence from anyone who took part in their races.

I can only presume that Stirling was there to test a car on a stadium track. Does anyone know if this is correct? If it was 1967 doesn't Moss look a little young as he would have been 38?

The occasion was a press day at White Cityof which there were three 1971, 72, 73 Graham Hill was present in 1973 and with him was his son a rather young Damon

[corsa61]

The occasion was a press day at White City Stadium in 1971 there were a further two , one in 72 and 73 . Graham Hill as President of the M A R C turned a few laps watched by several members of the motoring press and also watched by a world champion in waiting , his son Damon