11 replies to this topic

[mono-posto]

Being "new" to Formula 1, the most bitter rivalry among team-mates (or otherwise), in recent memory, has been the Prost vs. Senna.

However, I thought some of the posters here could entertain us with tales from yesteryear about other classic rivalries. Competitors who truly had an intense passion to beat another specific competitor.

Is there a rivalry in history that you would call the 'most intense' rivalry ever?????

[Vicster]

How about Nelson Piquet and Alan Jones? I believe Jones was ready to punt the Brazilian for some remarks before a Monaco GP.
Intense, but short lived bitter rivalry, Gilles and Didier Pironi.

[Hot Rod Otis]

Michael Schumacher & Damon Hill

Didn't Rene Arnoux & Alain Prost hate each others guts when they were teammates at Renault?

It was a short rivalry, but it was sure bitter, Nelson Piquet & Eliseo Salazar.
Unbelievabley, Salazar is still making an @ss out of himself on America's race tracks as recently as 3 days ago.

[Fast One]

I'd have a hard time thinking of a rivalry more intense than Varzi vs. Nuvolari. I have a good article about it which I keep at the office. I'll try to bring it home to share it, unless Dennis wants to fill everyone in on the details.

[Dennis David]

In Italy you were either for Varzi or Nuvolari not both. Their rivalry started on motorcycles and lasted their whole competitive lives until drug addiction took its toll on Varzi. They were complete opposites, Varzi cool and reserved from Milan and Nuvolari always moving very demonstrative of more simple up bringing. Yet through all of this they still maintained a common mutual respect if not friendship. In fact for a shorty time they even started their own team together. Sometimes it seemed they were more determined to beat each other than the rest of the field. While most considered Nuvolari the greater driver it was only just so. Varzi had many great victories of his own including the Targa Floria and Mille Miglia.

For a bitter inter-team rivalry how about Caracciola and Fagioli where upon Fagioli attacked the German with a knife only to be restrained at the last moment. Or the time Fagioli stopped his car on the racetrack and just got up and walked away rather then hand a victory to a teammate.


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Regards,

Dennis David
Grand Prix History

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

[Ray Bell]

Caratsch also got a bit heated about Lang at one stage, claiming he was being given the better gear etc...
What about sticking to team mates with the Jones and Reutemann thing... or potential team mates when Senna insisted certain others not be in the same team as him... I'll just bet that anyone casting their mind back to the fifties would find some interesting ones, too.
Not team mates, but parts of a team, John Cooper and Phil Hill had no love affair going. FJ was always reputed to find ways to upset his drivers as well.

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Eric McLoughlin]

Did not Innes Ireland and Trevor Taylor nearly wind up in a fisticuff situation after Innes was dumped from Lotus? Ireland thought that Taylor had had a hand in arranging his exit to make room for Clark. They actually made up pretty quickly but I don't think Ireland ecer forgave Chapman.

[Dennis David]

... or Clark.

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Regards,

Dennis David
Grand Prix History

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

[Ray Bell]

At least he outlived them... just!
His sacking from Lotus was in the same mould as the canning of Mansell and Hill from Williams at the end of their Championship terms...

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Don Capps]

How about the fisticuffs twix Officine Alfieri Maserati and Scuderia Ferrari, especially from 1953 to 1957 in GP and until 1961 in Sports cars? Pretty exciting stuff!!

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…

[Leif Snellman]

I think you must try to separate "rivalry" from "rivalry" here.

1. Some of the cases are about trying to be "the King of GP racing" with two drivers fighting for the top spot. Each such case is of course unique and depending on the driver's temperament the situation can take different forms.

Senna vs. Prost.
Two drivers aiming for the top spot and clearly afraid of the others abilities. In this case the drivers view of life was so different that the result was inevitable but at the same time they were very similar to each other so they both understood the "rules" and played by them (If you do that to me I'll do the same to you in the next race). Yes, there clearly were (unwritten) rules and for those who don't believe that I must add the following: Sometimes it happens that even a top driver comes into a situation where he is are being lapped by the leader. In such a situation three drivers have expecially impressed me by their professional behavour: Gilles Villeneuve, Ayrton Senna (being lapped by Prost) and Alain Prost (being lapped by Senna).

Varzi vs. Nuvolari.
Another case much similr to Senna vs. Prost with the two drivers really using every trick in the book on the track.

Rosemeyer vs. Caracciola
This is a case of the old champ feeling the threat from a new hothead. So he desperately tries to keep his position by some blocking manouvers. In this case the the drivers happend to met after the race (Swiss GP 1936) in the hotel elevator so they had the opportunity to tell their views. It would take half a year before the two drivers came on speaking terms again.

I also have to mention Lauda vs. Hunt.
There was some really dirty fights going on between McLaren and Ferrari in 1976 and it could easly have infected the drivers also. To both drivers credit they remained really good fiends.

2. Then there are cases where the drivers start to dislike each other. In this case it is not about fighting for the top spot but often about situations where one of the drivers gets upset and starts to shaken his fist (or kicking) and the mistrust can go on for a few days or for several years.
Piquet vs. Salazar has been mentioned.
Other examples are: Schumacher vs. Coulthard, Peterson vs. Patrese, Hunt vs Andretti, Senna vs. Irvine. Senna vs. Mansell. Cevert vs. Scheckter and Fagioli vs. Caracciola. The last mentioned was a really bad one, I mean, can any one of you imagine Senna and Prost throwing wheel hammers on each other?


3. Finally there are situations where one driver feels contempt for another. This is clearly the most dangerous situation with Villeneuve vs. Pironi as an example what can happen.

Other examples:

Lauda vs. Reutemann.
When asked if Lauda considered Reutemann to be a teammate or a competitor he answered neither. That says it all.

Arnoux vs. Prost.
Arnoux was sacked from Renault on Prost's demand. At Monaco he clearly showed his feelings when being lapped, letting Senna past and blocking Prost for several laps. While I admit I found it highly amusing at the time I also admit that that manouver did not improve my opinion about Arnoux as a professional driver.

Schumacher vs. Hill & vice versa.
To Hill the situaton was clear. Schumi was a a cheater. To Schumacher the situation was equally clear, Hill was a midfielder who should have lost the championship by 40 points if it has not been helped again and again by FIA. So when Schumacher and Villeneuve crashed it confirmed to Hill what he had said. And Hill's behavour when being lapped by Schumacher confirmed the latters view of Hill as a driver. (That was a bad one Damon, unworthy of a F1 driver and even more so from a former World champion).

Jarier vs. all the rest.
I think Jarier must have been one of the most bitter GP drivers ever. The expectations
were so high when he arrived to F1 and racing year after year as a backmarker must have been very frustrating. He showed it in almost every race "Ok, you think your's something just because you got a fast car, eh? So try to lap me if you can!"

[This message has been edited by Leif Snellman (edited 04-26-2000).]

[GaryG]

How about Mansell v Piquet at Williams. Two teammates who cost each other the WDC.