Ran accross a homepage by a guy named Dick Ralston:
http://home.flash.ne...lyScrapbook.htm
It specializes in the 500. Actually I put in the url of the page with the strange pictures on it. Has some brief stories on Donahue, Gurney. The picture that caught my eye was this one
Said it raced in '41. Two qualified. One was burned in a garage fire before the race. The retired with gearbox problems. Raced again in '46. Hit the wall. Called the Tucker Specials after the innovative automaker (sponsored by?). Is this thing common knowledge. I had never seen it before. He has the six-wheeler in the same article and I had seen that one before. But this Tucker I had missed up til now.
[This message has been edited by SteveB2 (edited 04-24-2000).]
Auto Union Lookalike at Indy.
Started by
SteveB2
, Apr 25 2000 04:40
9 replies to this topic
#1
Posted 25 April 2000 - 04:40
Advertisement
#2
Posted 25 April 2000 - 05:24
Is that a Miller?
There's something familiar about it, particularly the intercooler up there beside the engine...
------------------
Life and love are mixed with pain...
There's something familiar about it, particularly the intercooler up there beside the engine...
------------------
Life and love are mixed with pain...
#3
Posted 25 April 2000 - 05:39
Preston Tucker worked with Harry Miller on Indianapolis 500 race cars during the 1930's, ten Miller–Tucker cars built for Ford Motor Company for the 1935 Indy 500 race. The 1941 Tucker Special obviously is continuing this cooperation, and the position of the engine in the back is typical for Preston Tucker. John Eddie Offutt worked with Miller and Tucker already earlier, and he was the guy who put together the prototype Tucker Torpedo Sedan. In 1946 Tucker was already busy with his car street project, so the entry under the name Tucker Torpedo obviously was some kind of pre-advertising. Rather interesting story, would like to learn more about Tucker's Indy period.
#4
Posted 25 April 2000 - 08:25
I just unearthed some of my Indy Car & Champ Car materials and will see what I can do to provide some more on the 4WD Miller cars.
------------------
Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…
------------------
Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…
#5
Posted 25 April 2000 - 09:34
The book "INDY" by Rich Taylor has a nice 2 page spread on the GULF-MILLERS, I'll type some hi-lites.
In the midst of the Great Depression, GULF OIL CO. decided they had to win the Indy 500 with a car running pump gas. In June 37, they hired Harry Miller to design & build a 4 car team. He had the full facilities of GULF R&D, any staff he wanted, a literally unlimited budget, and 11 months. He decided to give GULF a technical tour-de-force, the most advanced & wonderfully engineered car that anybody had ever engineered from the ground up for the sole purpose of circling IMS.
In Europe, the mid-engined AUTO-UNION designed by F Porsche seemed to have more potential than typical front engine racers, so Miller determined to build a mid-engined car. It would have 4-wheel drive. There would be many other innovations. 4-wheel disc brakes, the 1st disc brakes on an Indycar. All-independant suspension. Aerodynamically-shaped outboard fuel tanks centered in the wheelbase to maintain weight dist. as the tanks emptied. Fabricated frame rails that also formed part of the bodywork, the 1st monocoque/chassis at Indy. The engine offset in the frame to improve weight dist. in IMS's left turns. Aerodynamic bodywork brought tight around the engine & the driver, then widening at the bottom. Axles covered by aerodynamic fairings, inboard mounted shocks operated by remote levers. These are all things we take for granted now...because Harry Miller thought of them 50 years ago.
Miller outdid himself on the engine. The 1938 rule was for 3 litre, supercharged engines. Miller created a short stroke 6-cyl. with DOHC's, designed from scratch to be both offset and canted to one side. The crankshaft driven supercharger had vanes on both sides of a single rotor, with a carb. for each entry. It ran at 5 times engine speed, or 32,000rpm. The engine produced about 250bhp at 6400rpm using 81 octane gas.
Harry Miller was a mystic. A creative genius. But he was not a pragmatic development engineer. In the glory days, actually building Millers cars and getting his ideas to work had been done by Fred Offenhauser and Leo Goossen. Withou The Team to keep him in check, Miller spent 7000 hrs on each of the GULF-MILLERS & exceeded his generous budget. Every piece had to be specially made, & each car was artistically finished inside & out. But they weren't finished in time. Nor did they work very well.
1 GULF-MILLER was ready for the 38 500, but didn't arrive in time to qualify. Miller & his crew of GULF engineers worked all year, & managed to have 3 cars ready for 39. Johnny Seymour crashed & his car burned to the ground. In 40, George Bailey crashed & was killed, His car burned, too. George Barringers car was withdrawn at the "request" of AAA. In June he took it to Bonneville & ran 158mph & set a dozen Class D speed records. That was the GULF-MILLER's best preformance. Barringer's 2nd car burned in the 41 Gasoline Alley fire. GULF sold him the remaining car in 46, & he got Preston Tucker to spons. it on the premise that both the G-M & the Tucker Torpedo were "rear-engine". Barringer was killed racing in Atlanta in the sumer of 46, so Al Miller ran the car for Tucker in 47. They should have stayed home.
The GULF-MILLER was one of the most advanced designs ever to run at Indy, 40 years ahead of its time in many ways. It was also the most expensive flop in racing history & Harry Miller's only failure. Seemed like a good idea at the time.
That sure took a while. The fastest 2 fingers on any keyboard!!!!!
In the midst of the Great Depression, GULF OIL CO. decided they had to win the Indy 500 with a car running pump gas. In June 37, they hired Harry Miller to design & build a 4 car team. He had the full facilities of GULF R&D, any staff he wanted, a literally unlimited budget, and 11 months. He decided to give GULF a technical tour-de-force, the most advanced & wonderfully engineered car that anybody had ever engineered from the ground up for the sole purpose of circling IMS.
In Europe, the mid-engined AUTO-UNION designed by F Porsche seemed to have more potential than typical front engine racers, so Miller determined to build a mid-engined car. It would have 4-wheel drive. There would be many other innovations. 4-wheel disc brakes, the 1st disc brakes on an Indycar. All-independant suspension. Aerodynamically-shaped outboard fuel tanks centered in the wheelbase to maintain weight dist. as the tanks emptied. Fabricated frame rails that also formed part of the bodywork, the 1st monocoque/chassis at Indy. The engine offset in the frame to improve weight dist. in IMS's left turns. Aerodynamic bodywork brought tight around the engine & the driver, then widening at the bottom. Axles covered by aerodynamic fairings, inboard mounted shocks operated by remote levers. These are all things we take for granted now...because Harry Miller thought of them 50 years ago.
Miller outdid himself on the engine. The 1938 rule was for 3 litre, supercharged engines. Miller created a short stroke 6-cyl. with DOHC's, designed from scratch to be both offset and canted to one side. The crankshaft driven supercharger had vanes on both sides of a single rotor, with a carb. for each entry. It ran at 5 times engine speed, or 32,000rpm. The engine produced about 250bhp at 6400rpm using 81 octane gas.
Harry Miller was a mystic. A creative genius. But he was not a pragmatic development engineer. In the glory days, actually building Millers cars and getting his ideas to work had been done by Fred Offenhauser and Leo Goossen. Withou The Team to keep him in check, Miller spent 7000 hrs on each of the GULF-MILLERS & exceeded his generous budget. Every piece had to be specially made, & each car was artistically finished inside & out. But they weren't finished in time. Nor did they work very well.
1 GULF-MILLER was ready for the 38 500, but didn't arrive in time to qualify. Miller & his crew of GULF engineers worked all year, & managed to have 3 cars ready for 39. Johnny Seymour crashed & his car burned to the ground. In 40, George Bailey crashed & was killed, His car burned, too. George Barringers car was withdrawn at the "request" of AAA. In June he took it to Bonneville & ran 158mph & set a dozen Class D speed records. That was the GULF-MILLER's best preformance. Barringer's 2nd car burned in the 41 Gasoline Alley fire. GULF sold him the remaining car in 46, & he got Preston Tucker to spons. it on the premise that both the G-M & the Tucker Torpedo were "rear-engine". Barringer was killed racing in Atlanta in the sumer of 46, so Al Miller ran the car for Tucker in 47. They should have stayed home.
The GULF-MILLER was one of the most advanced designs ever to run at Indy, 40 years ahead of its time in many ways. It was also the most expensive flop in racing history & Harry Miller's only failure. Seemed like a good idea at the time.
That sure took a while. The fastest 2 fingers on any keyboard!!!!!
#6
Posted 27 April 2000 - 16:41
The fact that one of the Gulf Millers was the only "qualified" car destroyed in the 1941 pit fire at Indianapolis 500 just shows how doomed these cars really were.
The fire had a direct outcome on the race results. Wilbur Shaws Maserati was housed just down from the fire and although it was pushed to a safe area, a previously marked tyre that was out of balance had its markings washed off by the fire hose spray.
As a result this defective tyre eventually found its way onto Shaws car during the race. On lap 152, with Shaw well on his way to win # 4, the wheel assembly gave out and the Maserati ended up in the wall.
The fact that the Gulf Miller had to run on the sponsors 81 octane straight petrol may have contributed to the pit fire, as everyone else was running on alcohol. The straight petrol certainly hampered the Millers horsepower output and this contributed to the cars dismal record at Indy.
It was not the first Rear engined car to run at Indy. That honour went to Lee Oldfield in 1937, who practiced but did not qualify. Another Rear engined car of the same era was the 'Rounds Rocket', which failed to qualify in the late 1940s.
Such was the impact of the Auto Union design at the time. These 3 designs preceeded the 'rear engined' revolution at Indy by 25 to 20 years.
The fire had a direct outcome on the race results. Wilbur Shaws Maserati was housed just down from the fire and although it was pushed to a safe area, a previously marked tyre that was out of balance had its markings washed off by the fire hose spray.
As a result this defective tyre eventually found its way onto Shaws car during the race. On lap 152, with Shaw well on his way to win # 4, the wheel assembly gave out and the Maserati ended up in the wall.
The fact that the Gulf Miller had to run on the sponsors 81 octane straight petrol may have contributed to the pit fire, as everyone else was running on alcohol. The straight petrol certainly hampered the Millers horsepower output and this contributed to the cars dismal record at Indy.
It was not the first Rear engined car to run at Indy. That honour went to Lee Oldfield in 1937, who practiced but did not qualify. Another Rear engined car of the same era was the 'Rounds Rocket', which failed to qualify in the late 1940s.
Such was the impact of the Auto Union design at the time. These 3 designs preceeded the 'rear engined' revolution at Indy by 25 to 20 years.
#7
Posted 27 April 2000 - 16:47
Black Jack ran the Cooper in 1961 with the 2.7 engine... 1962 Mickey Thompson ran his Olds-powered (?) cars, didn't he?
1963 saw the major push with Lotus, Gurney and Ford; 1964 the Ford twin-cam engine based on an aluminium 225 block... etc.
------------------
Life and love are mixed with pain...
1963 saw the major push with Lotus, Gurney and Ford; 1964 the Ford twin-cam engine based on an aluminium 225 block... etc.
------------------
Life and love are mixed with pain...
#8
Posted 27 April 2000 - 23:18
The '62 Mickey Thompson cars were powered by Buick.
#9
Posted 27 April 2000 - 23:26
Hey hey! I'm a "member"! And to think it was a post about a car that Dan Gurney drove that 'graduated' me! Life is good. This will forever be a : "...I remember where I was when I heard..." type of event for me!
#10
Posted 28 April 2000 - 01:48
I understand the difference between the Buick and Olds engines related to the number of head studs... the one that Rover took over was the one with the greater number. Perhaps that's why they have such tiny exhaust ports... The Repco engines were based on the Olds block for that reason, so the Buicks may have breathed better but suffered gasket problems?
------------------
Life and love are mixed with pain...
------------------
Life and love are mixed with pain...