32 replies to this topic

[island]

Hi!
Graham McRae`s GM3 (the F5000 with the transparent cockpit section) carried "Scuderia Veloce" stickers in the
1979 Australian Rothmans races. The stickers
sported an Italian flag with the vertical
letters "SVM". What does it mean?

[Ray Bell]

It means that David liked Graham and that was that!

David McKay was the key figure at Scuderia Veloce, initially a racing team with an Italian name (David wrote for the Sydney Daily Telegraph... when he flew to Italy for a new car shindig he wrote in his column of how he flew in the (Alitalia) 747 with the Scuderia Veloce colours on the tail), later a Volvo dealership due to David's close relationship with Peter Antill, the original importer of this marque.
Close? He married Peter's sister, that's fairly close.

Bob Atkin was the man on the ground at SV, then at the helm of SVM as it grew from a workshop under the back of a service station to a major luxury car showroom in a good suburb.

Hence the SVM stickers, and if you're asking, 'Scuderia Veloce' is loosely translated 'Stable of Speed' - as is 'Ecurie Vitesse,' the team name Jack Brabham raced under when he came home... also Brian Muir and Max Stahl.

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[HistoryFan]

Why names Jack Brabham his team Ecurie Vitesse in Tasman Series?

Were there never plans of Ecurie Veloce to enter GP races in Europe?

[Sharman]

Why names Jack Brabham his team Ecurie Vitesse in Tasman Series?

Were there never plans of Ecurie Veloce to enter GP races in Europe?

Presumably because he'd sold the Brabham name to a short fella who would eventually destroy Grand Prix racing as we knew it.

[austmcreg]

Presumably because he'd sold the Brabham name to a short fella who would eventually destroy Grand Prix racing as we knew it.

No, that came much later, after Jack had retired from driving. Jack did not sell to Ecclestone, that was Ron Tauranac's doing. Ecurie Vitesse was being used by Brabham in Australia as early as 1963 at least, possibly earlier, but I dont have any programs to hand to confirm.

Edited by austmcreg, 13 August 2011 - 11:52.

[Sharman]

No, that came much later, after Jack had retired from driving. Jack did not sell to Ecclestone, that was Ron Tauranac's doing. Ecurie Vitesse was being used by Brabham in Australia as early as 1963 at least, possibly earlier, but I dont have any programs to hand to confirm.

You are quite right of course, sitting here with thumb in bum and mind in neutral, i was chronologically challenged

[Ray Bell]

I'll have to get some further information on the Ecurie Vitesse deal from Max Stahl...

Which reminds me, he wanted me to phone him tonight.

[wagons46]

Brabham entered (and won) the 27th Aust GP in Feb 1963 under 'Ecurie Vitesse'

[Paul Hamilton]

I'll have to get some further information on the Ecurie Vitesse deal from Max Stahl...

Ray, Max has told me that Ecurie Vitesse was the entrants name used by Brian Muir for his humpy Holden and that the name was 'acquired' by Max when he bought the car from Brian. When I raised the subject with him this morning, Max went off looking to find his old Ecurie Vitesse T shirt!! At the time he sold the Holden to Max, Brian was heading off to the UK where he initially worked for Jack Brabham which is probably the linkage whereby Jack's annual ventures to race back home used the Ecurie Vitesse name. Those summer racing trips home seem to have been something of a private venture for Jack rather than a formal works entry by first Cooper and then BRD or MRD which might explain his use of an entrants licence held by a few of his mates.

Getting back to the title of this thread, I think your initial response to the question about Scuderia Veloce may have somewhat under sold the oganisation, Ray, as we both know that it was a lot more than simply 'a racing team with an Italian name'! David Mackay's team was a very significant player down under during the 1960's and well into the 70's. David ran a series of front line Tasman Formula Coopers and later Brabhams driven by men such as Chris Amon, Graham Hill, Spencer Martin and Greg Cusack. He also owned and entered a P4 and an LM250 Ferrari which, at various times were driven by Amon, Martin, Jackie Stewart, Ian Geoghegan and Bill Brown amongst others. The team was also involved in running touring cars at Bathurst and other major long distance races. David's strong linkages to Maranello were evidenced not only by his ownership of the Ferraris, but also by the responsibility entrusted to the team to run the semi works cars brought down under for Amon and Derek Bell to drive in the Tasman series.

David was certainly not universally liked but he ran a very slick, professional organisation and was very supportive of many people in nurturing their young talent with Chris Amon, Spencer Martin and Larry Perkins being three prominent examples of that. He was often a hard task master, a stickler for high standards of presentation and appearance and had a pretty advanced approach, for those times, towards commercial support for the sport. He did, however, most often get the job done in a quite effective manner and I suspect it was that achievement which commonly got up the noses of many people in the sport.

I don't know just what the connection with Graham McRae's 1979 F5000 was but Scuderia Veloce was still quite active around that time. SV was the entrant of the Ralt RT1 driven by Larry Perkins in the 1978 Peter Stuyvesant series in NZ and I think continued to support John Smith when he acquired the car later that year. David was very much involved in the running of the operation in NZ although the prime mover was Graham Watson who was for many years employed in the Scuderia Veloce body shop and later established Ralt Australia as Ron Tauranac's representative in the antipodes.

[Alan Cox]

He also owned and entered a P4 and an LM250 Ferrari which, at various times were driven by Amon, Martin, Jackie Stewart, Ian Geoghegan and Bill Brown amongst others.

The LM is currently on display with the Ralph Lauren collection in Paris at the Musée des Arts Decoratifs, replendent with Scuderia Veloce logos.

[Ray Bell]

Thanks Paul...

Max will be asking Grahame Ward to check with Jack on more precise details later in the week.

[eldougo]

For those that do not known the Logo.



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Edited by eldougo, 21 August 2011 - 05:21.

[flightlessbird]

For those that do not known the Logo.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Still used by the Dealership of that name

[Catalina Park]

Still used by the Dealership of that name

Not quite, they use "SVM" not SV.

[Ray Bell]

With a branch in Canberra who advertise with a strange accent...

They pronounce it 'Scuderia Veluce Motors,' or did when I lived down there. Asking a salesman why they did that, he said, "It probably depends on which part of Sweden you're from."

[David McKinney]

I presume it was/is pronounced the Italian way in Sydney?

[Ray Bell]

Of course!

Especially on the Lower North Shore...

[Paul Hamilton]

Of course!

Especially on the Lower North Shore...

Ray, I would suggest that SV was more an upper north shore entity. Its original base was at Wahroonga which is definitely upper north shore and, even the Lindfield dealership within which it was later relocated, remains in border country!!

[David McKinney]

I'm not intimate with Sydney geography (or for that matter with Ray Bell's mind) but I think he was referring to social strata

[Ray Bell]

A bit of both, David...

As for the Wahroonga bit, yes, that's very true. I remember Bob Atkin once wiping some emission from the concrete driveway to the Shell service station above the original SVM from the roof of a 122 and saying that the paint of most cars wouldn't stand that.

I would have, however, regarded Lindfield as Lower North Shore, but it is borderline I guess. I always considered Pymble to be the start of the Upper North Shore. Of course, SVM has been in Lindfield now for over thirty years. Probably over forty, come to think of it, as the Canberra branch have been distorting the Italian language for the best part of thirty.

[Paul Newby]

From somebody who lives in Sydney I can tell you there is no Scuderia Veloce Motors in Lindfield anymore. They flog Subarus from the Lindfield premise (known as Subaru Lindfield) and pre-loved Subarus up the road at Roseville. Volvos are further up (down?) the road in Chatswood. Porsches are flogged from a dedicated site on Willoughby Road in Willoughby and they sell Chrysler and Jeep product in Mosman.

Of course the Sutton Group bought out McKay and his partners about 20 years ago.

A personal anecdote. My Father purchased a new Volvo 244 GLE from Denlo Motors at Parramatta in 1980 (we still have the car) and on one occasion took it up to Scuds (as it was collaquially known) for a service. He parked it out in the forecourt and was asked by a service guy to shift it to a parking bay. I then saw them back out a Ferrari 400! Quite a sight for a pimply, car-obseesed teenager like myself...

[Wilyman]

Not quite, they use "SVM" not SV.

When I worked for the main Volvo dealer in WA second hand Volvos were bought in from the Eastern States. We would pounce on them looking for the odd $ coins wedged under the seats, the occasional spanner [not toolkit] and anything shiny.
I still have a nice SVM keyring from one of the Volvos. Another car yielded a Reg Hunt Volvo keyring.

After working for this company for 15+years I qualified for a trip to Sydney after scoring reasonably in a service competition.
The final tests were carried out at Scuderia Veloce Motors workshop in Chatswood? As someone has previously mentioned they had an underground section of the workshop. We were privy to this inner sanctum, shown around by the Volvo Aus Service School instructor.
There were a couple of classic Ferraris under cover down there.Their temperamental clutches would have been given a workout coming up the ramp!

In later years I was corrected in my pronunciation of Scuderia. I always said it as it looks, the Aus way.
"Scoodaria" being the correct way.

I understand that the above pedant insists that Sebring is pronounced "S'bring".

While we are at it how about Cater - ham instead of the correct "Cat'rm" ?

[Ian G]

Yeah,the Chatswood site is impressive,across the road from where "Sams Spares" was in the 1960's,the local shop for all car buffs in those days.Sam would certainly be impressed if he could see Chatswood-Willoughby in 2011.

[Ray Bell]

Sam's?

I'd forgotten them! I bought a badly needed rear hub for a Simca there circa 1966...

[Ian G]

Sam's?

I'd forgotten them! I bought a badly needed rear hub for a Simca there circa 1966...

Getting OT but we were only talking about Sam & his 2 Sons when i was in Sydney last Xmas.He was always reasonable with his prices on both wrecking bits and new parts,he had Repco on the corner just up the road ,opposite the Great Northern Hotel,and Smith Sons & Rees down the road at St Leonards and probaly turned over more new parts/accessories than both of them put together. One of his favourite idosyncrasies was to raise the price or refuse to sell the item all together if anyone tried to beat him down on price. We were there one Sat. afternoon when a bunch of rough looking hoons that obviously didn't know him were trying to buy a Holden 4 Speed G/Box off him.He said "$300"(?),they said "how about $200",Sam said "$350",they said "$250",Sam "$400"..they then said OK "your've made your point $300","Sam then says "there must be something wrong with you Western Suburbs Boys hearing,the price is $400". They grabbed Sam by his overalls bib,his 2 Sons jumped the counter and it was on.No one in our group ever quibbled with Sam after that. He ended up doing OK thou.,sold his Business(all they wanted was the land) for big $ & purchased a new Mercedes Sports,seeing Sam get into it with greasy blue overalls and sitting on White/Tan Leather Seats was a sight to behold.,those Days are gone forever.

[Ray Bell]

I don't think I would have quibbled with the price of the hub, I think it was $8...

You've got to love thinking about the old days and the wrecking yards in which we could play, don't you?

[Ian G]

I don't think I would have quibbled with the price of the hub, I think it was $8...

You've got to love thinking about the old days and the wrecking yards in which we could play, don't you?

It was certainly an iconic business,discounted car parts years before it became fashionable and a wide variety of cars went thru,& i mean thru.they weren't there long before ending up at Sims due to his small yard.At one stage there in the late 60's he wrecked a Skoda,Borgward & that Jap. Renault type Hino,we had never seen these cars before.The wrecked cars never lasted long,people would come from all over Sydney to attack them,a car would roll up,5 or 6 guys would pile out with spanners and go to work.A car would turn up during the Week,the word would go out and by closing time on Sat. afternoon it would just be a shell ready to be taken down the back of the yard to be crushed,it was like watching a time lapse film of ants attacking a carcass.

Getting slightly back on track,i met David McKay a couple of times,my next door neighbour worked for Frank Packer and he knew i was interested in cars(& beer) and invited me to several Telegraph/Channel 9 functions that involved motoring. 9 was considering a prime time car show at the time,early 1970's,Wherret was sounded out to be host but the producers were told he was on the nose with Oz manufacturers and would be a risk as Ford & Holden were big budget advertisers with 9,there was also a rumour,probaly false,that he had signed a secret agreement to surreptitously promote Chrysler products. In any case the project was put on hold along with many others until 9 received there new colour cameras and eventually was canned altogether although they did a half hearted attempt on Saturday mornings with Comedian Joe martin as host but it bombed badly.

[Ray Bell]

And David was never considered?

Wherrett was a Ford man through and through. He owned Falcons during his advanced driving school days and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some he never had to pay for.

As a kid of 18 or so I used to simply go up and talk to David wherever I saw him. Apparently it was noteworthy to him that I'd pop up in his face at a Longford, or a Sandown, always at Warwick Farm and Catalina and often at Lakeside. I was 20, I guess, when I was talking to him at Surfers (probably a 12-hour, but more likely the weekend before it when the Gold Star was on) and had a little 'hello, how's it going today?' session with him and walked off. After I did, D-d-david asked Mike Kable:

"Who is that y-y-young ch-chap? I seem to see him everywhere!"

And Mike told me he replied, "Well, his name is Ray Bell and you seem to see him everywhere because he IS everywhere!"

Not long afterwards, my fiance and I had been up looking at land for sale at Bowen Mount and drove back to the Northern Beaches via Wahroonga and pulled up at the Shell Autoport for fuel. David was there and looked at my beat-up Morris Minor and chastised me for not driving a better looking car.

Finally, back about '94 or so I phoned David at home. A lot of water had gone under the bridge by this time and we knew each other fairly well... he invited me around for lunch with he and his delightful wife at his Exeter property. At the time he was still writing occasional articles for MRA and posting them away. I had to explain to him what a facsimile machine was as I thought it would save him time and trouble. I doubt that he ever caught up with the internet world, but he may have done.

Dining on that salad lunch (David had also told me back at the Watson/Ralt Austalia launch that 'we all eat too much') I was taken by the method of dispensing salt. I had never seen the little container with the tiny spoon before anywhere, but obviously that means I moved in the wrong circles or came from a different strata of society.

I drove out of there with some indelible memories to hold now that David is gone. Much better than recalling the incident in the drive of the Autoport. But along the way we'd come to know each other, as I mentioned. I worked for some time (prior to my Racing Car News employment) for a small company in which his brother-in-law, the great Peter Antill, had a major interest. There I would sometimes go with Lance Lowe to new car releases where David was present as a treat from Lance.

And then there was the day I turned up at Warwick Farm's short circuit and the 250LM was there. David offered me a few laps in the passenger seat, which was a treat for any 23-year-old, wasn't it?

[ellrosso]

Wow, a spin in the 250LM Ray........ you'll never forget that!

[GMACKIE]

Just sitting in the driver's seat [with David's permission, of course] was a real treat for me. Anni still gets around this area, with the LM-250 number plates - on a Daewoo, or something like that.

David asked me to let him know when I'd finished restoring my Lancia Lambda, a few years back. When I called, he asked if he could bring a friend along as well, to see the car. He turned out to be Mike Kable. They both had a run in the Lambda, and Mike wrote a little article about it in [I think] The Australian.

[Ian G]

And David was never considered?

Wherrett was a Ford man through and through. He owned Falcons during his advanced driving school days and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some he never had to pay for.

David was in the mix but not as host(AFAIK),i think they needed someone that was known nationally,particulary in the Melb. & Sydney markets,only names i can remember being discussed were Wherrett & Don Lane but i guess they would have had a short list. There were major upheavels going on at the time,rumours Murdoch wanted the Telegraph,Sir Frank's health going south which wasn't helped with the fights with his eldest Son Clyde and Kerry trying to exert some authority and get out of his Fathers shadow,the place was very dysfunctional so it was a wonder any programmes were made.

I think i read that somewhere,Ford & Wherrett,but at the time i'm sure it was the Ford & Holden budget they couldn't risk but i may be wrong.

[Ray Bell]

Lindsay, it's not such an outstanding memory these days, strangely enough...

But yes, still something you'll always remember. Not quite so graphic as sitting (unbelted!) in the Laurie O'Neil 935 and belting around Amaroo Park for several laps with Fat Pete at the wheel. There's an RCN story about that one.

Originally posted by GMACKIE
Just sitting in the driver's seat [with David's permission, of course] was a real treat for me. Anni still gets around this area, with the LM-250 number plates - on a Daewoo, or something like that.

David asked me to let him know when I'd finished restoring my Lancia Lambda, a few years back. When I called, he asked if he could bring a friend along as well, to see the car. He turned out to be Mike Kable. They both had a run in the Lambda, and Mike wrote a little article about it in [I think] The Australian.

Yes, Mike and David were very thick together...

While I would suggest you do a search for a post by me with the words 'unstable' and 'Spencer' in them for further explanation, I am not at all surprised that Mike would have been chasing after your Lambda for a story. Mike has been dead longer than David, of course, that must be nine years or so, isn't it?

On the subject of Lancia Lambdas, there was one I saw one day owned by a couple of blokes up north of Gunnedah. This car had lived in the family garage since it came home from the dealer's the day it was purchased new, but had recently been restored by these brothers... who were nephews of Sam Miller. I only saw it incidentally because I was there to look over a Regal Underslung they had. They've also both died now and no doubt the cars have been dissipated. The local vintage car club were trying to keep them in the district, but I don't know how they got on.

Mike's love for Italians and Italian machinery was irrational. He had a great little TC he'd rebuilt, of course, and Joy had a Fiat 600 she drove daily to work in the days when I boarded with them. But later on Mike grew closer to the Italian stuff and spent a lot of time in Italy.

Edited by Ray Bell, 26 August 2011 - 09:41.

[ellrosso]

Now I'm really jealous Ray, 935 around Amaroo with the big fella - and you were probably being paid to do it too! Bet he chucked you around a bit. Speaking of Lambdas, I did a fashion shoot in Roseville a couple of years ago and the guy who owned the property had a very pristine black one in the garage - very nice.