132 replies to this topic

[island]

Hi!
He dominated the 1970/1971 Tasman Cup Scene
together with Matich and McRae. Did he just
have strong Molloy engines or was he a driver
as good as his two rivals? Or even better?

[Ray Bell]

Up the back straight at Sandown there was the telltale smoke from the exhausts - way out in front of the field, and so early in the race, his Tasman chances doomed...
When Niel pulled up he was a broken man. The start of the series had gone well, but handling troubles at Warwick Farm had pulled his points back, now this failure and he missed out on the series.
I think he was a great driver, and I was fortunate enough to have seen him from the very start. He raced a modified road-going E-type in Club races, then open races, then went to the competition Elans, Lotus 23, Matich's Elfin 400, McLaren M4a, Brabham Climax, the stubby Elfin ME5 and then the McLaren M10Bs. In the midst of this he also ran a Mustang - at one point he was challenging the leading contenders in Racing, Sports and Touring car racing in this country!
The win in the NZGP had to be the highlight of it all, with the low point perhaps being the crashing of the Lola T300 he bought for his comeback...
He was a self-made millionaire a couple of times, having gone bad along the way. His entourage always included some lovely ladies, while Niel's favourite pose seemed to be leaning against the Rambler tow car scratching his cods. One day Bob Levett asked me if I had seen him '...bring the second hand into play because one wasn't enough.'
In retrospect, we really should conclude that the problem was that they were receding to normal size after a period of expansion in the cars.
Thanks, island, for spelling his name correctly, too.
As for how good he was, don't you have a write-up on that last lap of the NZGP? He beat his nemesis Matich there, and that's one driver everyone agrees was among the best!

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[This message has been edited by Ray Bell (edited 04-09-2000).]

[Ray Bell]

Niel bought the M4a from Piers Courage. With its 1600cc FVA engine, it was nearly a match for the 2.5 Repco V8 and FPF Climax-powered cars running in the Gold Star series.
Bob Levett and I were elated when we stopped at Tweed Heads en route from Sydney to Lakeside for the Gold Star race there. We had driven through the night in my 203 (it was freezing cold, and there were frogs everywhere in the sugar cane area north of Grafton), so getting the paper before breakfast we found that Niel was fastest in practice, having done a lap in 52.7 seconds - the best lap ever to that time, if I'm not mistaken (the International race that year was as Surfers).
We got to the circuit and went to our favourite viewing point, near the toilet on the inside of the circuit high above the kink at the end of the straight and before the Karussell. When they came out, Niel was getting into his stride well enough. We watched him come up the straight, through the kink. At the exit, the cars went out of our sight as they were obscured by the embankment, and we saw a large puff of dust.

Moments later we saw the McLaren - 30' in the air, upside down and backwards!

It came down, tumbled and flipped itself to destruction. The ambulance driver in the pits was driving around tryint to find a way onto the circuit, while the ambulance designated to serve that part of the place was still. Eventually, it moved. By that time Wayne Eckersley had run all the way from the pits and was cradling Niel's head as he lay in the tub on its side. Everything else was off the car, and the back was even torn out of the tub.

It was our first sight of a crash that big where the driver wore a proper harness. We had to believe the worst, but it transpired that he had broken a finger. The McLaren was rebuilt, and among other things it achieved in later life was to hold the outright lap record at Warwick Farm.

I don't think Niel ever recovered memory of that day. Today he is something of a recluse, his rather glamorous wife left him and his real estate empire crumbled yet again (he developed high-rise office buildings). I don't know what he does these days, the last time I saw him he was driving an Elwyn Forumula Ford in a demonstration day at the AARC's (the club who ran Warwick Farm) 20th anniversary day (or something like that) at Amaroo Park, where they went to hold their meetings after the Farm closed in 1973.

His legacy is that he will always hold the outright lap record at the original Bathurst - 2:09.7 in the M10B, not being stretched at all. The straight is modified with the Chase (chicane to you) added, and Touring Cars are now nibbling at his time, but that can't count.

And some of the most fantastic memories Bob and I have of those glorious years of the sixties and early seventies.

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

Edited by Ray Bell, 19 August 2022 - 17:00.

[island]

Ray,
the Matich SR4-Repco`s only defeat was at
Warwick Farm in 1970. Did you see that race
too? Did Niel beat him fair and square in
the Elfin ME5-Chev? I found no race reports.
I have read in an old Aust.MR Yb that Allen
commissioned Garrie Cooper to build him a
Matich beater. Was their rivalry that fierce?

[Ray Bell]

Obviously I saw that race. I told you before I never missed Warwick Farm from Oct 14, 1962 to the end...
It was one of the last races I saw from Point M, from which vantage point we could not see the start, but that was where Niel hit the front. He had been in position two on the grid, which Max Stewart (and probably some others) reckoned was effectively pole, anyway.
We did see them arrive at the Causeway with Frank on his case, but then we watched as Frank slowed. He then went to the pits and spent a lap there, rejoing 15 seconds behind Allen and one lap down. By half distance he was up to third again, and about to rocket by Peter Woodward's Elfin 350 for second, but had only made up 2.3 seconds on Allen.
Although Matich made fastest lap, he still finished a lap and 10+ seconds down on Niel.
What might have happened, as you must well realise, could be the subject of conjecture for a decade.
As I mentioned above, Niel set out to challenge the leader in each category. The first category he tried to challenge in was Sports Cars, where Matich had been dominant for years, so there was rivalry. Friendly rivalry, I must say (if any rivalry can be friendly) - at the very next Farm meeting the clashed and crashed in F5000s, and there is a photo of Frank talking to Niel alongside the wrecks - minutes after Niel has run into him when the harmonic balancer came off and sliced through a brake line.
Perhaps the better example of Niel's desire to beat Frank was in the old Elfin 400 earlier in that year at Catalina. It was getting well and truly outdated by then, and his pursuit of the SR4 round the dangerous mountains circuit was more than just spectacular. Black lines through Pilot Curve indeed!

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Ray Bell]

As far as I know, Niel Allen was the only driver ever to set an outright lap record crossing the finish line backwards.
It happened at Symmons Plains, Tasmania, early in his ownership of the ex-Matich Elfin 400 Traco, there being a tight corner that leads into a curve over the finish line there.
At the end of the second lap he spun... and crossed the line backwards with a new lap record!
Has that ever happened anywhere else?

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[island]

Ray,
did Niel announce his retirement from racing
after the 1971 Tasman? If so, why did he
"unretire" and buy that Lola T300? Any
connections with Gardner`s works effort?
And finally, do you know what caused his
crash at Surfers Paradise?

[Pete Stanley]

Originally posted by Ray Bell:
As far as I know, Niel Allen was the only driver ever to set an outright lap record crossing the finish line backwards.
It happened at Symmons Plains, Tasmania, early in his ownership of the ex-Matich Elfin 400 Traco, there being a tight corner that leads into a curve over the finish line there.
At the end of the second lap he spun... and crossed the line backwards with a new lap record!
Has that ever happened anywhere else?

Actually, Ray, I think that happened a couple years ago in the CART race at Elkhart Lake. For qualifying there, CART moves the timing and scoring line down to the bottom of the hill on the main straight, so drivers can duck into the pits after setting a fast lap. They do this because the course is four miles long.

Anyway, several drivers were taking the final corner with waaay too much speed to make it, but since the t/s line was just on the exit to the corner it didn't matter. Several drivers employed the technique.

[Ray Bell]

Moss wrote about a circuit somewhere on the Mediterranean where the best lap time was to be had by stealing a part of the pit lane to get a better entry to the corner at the end of the straight. Just a yellow line to cross those days, of course. He described driving down there with his hand in the air as if he was pitting, maybe fiddling with the gearlever, but with his foot hard down, then a wave of "oh, it's okay now..." and into it.
Actually, I think at Bathurst one could get a better lap time by going down the escape road after the last corner then rushing up out of there and entering the pit straight faster than one could normally... it's a wonder someone doesn't try that in the single-lap qualifying runs they have for the 1000k tin-top event.
As for Niel and the 'Lola Push' (McCormack's description of the bunch who controlled F5000 and all drove Lolas), Miel was too much of a loner to be involved in that sort of thing. Molloy might have had connections, but it was Niel on his own.. after all, he wanted to beat all of 'them'... Yes, he did announce his retirement after the Tasman.
The car then went to Bob Muir.

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[This message has been edited by Ray Bell (edited 05-15-2000).]

[William Dale Jr]

Originally posted by Ray Bell:
Actually, I think at Bathurst one could get a better lap time by going down the escape road after the last corner then rushing up out of there and entering the pit straight faster than one could normally... it's a wonder someone doesn't try that in the single-lap qualifying runs they have for the 1000k tin-top event.

Allan Grice did in 1988 in the FAI Commodore - I think it was wierd that year because they had 12 cars in the Tooheys Top Gun runoff and the times were of no significance to the grid. Starting down the escape road didn't really help Gricey, though, and it would only work if you had the lap to warm up first.

On the subject of Niel Allen, does he still hold the lap record on The Mountain? If not, who does?

[Ray Bell]

It's okay to mention Gricey on this forum, William, because he used to drive open wheelers... but you probably know about his Elfin Mono 1100, don't you?
Yes, Niel will always hold the outright lap record at Bathurst in its original configuration at 2:09.7... but the tourers are knocking on the door and would have beaten the time if the chase had not been added.
Seeing you are a student of motor racing, William, take it from me Niel was more worthy than the magazine reports made him out to be. I forgot to list the Mini he raced earlier, but in that and all the other cars he had he gave his best. That 52.7 at Lakeside was spectacularly awesome at the time... 1:28.2 (I think it was) at the Farm was undeniably great in a 1600... chasing Matich in Matich's old car (twice removed) deserved everyone's commendation.

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[David Shaw]

Ray, was Niel's M4a ever rebuilt after the Lakeside incident? Was this the McLaren that was driven by Peter Macrow later in the Gold Star series?

[Mark Beckman]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
As far as I know, Niel Allen was the only driver ever to set an outright lap record crossing the finish line backwards.
It happened at Symmons Plains, Tasmania, early in his ownership of the ex-Matich Elfin 400 Traco, there being a tight corner that leads into a curve over the finish line there.
At the end of the second lap he spun... and crossed the line backwards with a new lap record!
Has that ever happened anywhere else?

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

Yes, Senna did this at Magny Coure in F1 to get pole position during qualifying one year.

I think Senna once got fastest lap at Donington Park going thru the pits without stopping too ??

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by David Shaw
Ray, was Niel's M4a ever rebuilt after the Lakeside incident? Was this the McLaren that was driven by Peter Macrow later in the Gold Star series?

Jumping in again...
Yes, the M4A was rebuilt but no, it wasn't the one Macrow raced. That was the ex-Palmer car which Alf Costanzo later raced, and Ken Hastings after that.
The ex-Allen (previously Piers Courage) car went to Pat Burke and was driven for him by Len Goodwin and Warwick Brown

[Ray Bell]

There's more to the story too, David...

The Courage/Allen M4a got a new tub, I guess from McLaren's and was rebuilt to become a very rapid car. But at the same time a new tub was made to a slightly different design.

I don't know the full story about it, but it had tapered rear sections to the pontoons much like those on the M10 McLaren. This chassis only ever saw the light of day as a hillclimb car, IIRC, and the name 'Errol Richardson' seems to be attached to it in my memory banks.

[Ray Bell]

Resurrecting this just because of Frank Matich's comments the other day...

I asked Frank to evaluate Niel in the same way that he evaluated Bartlett, Stewart, McCormack and so on in an article in Racing Car News...

Basically he said that he was always surprised at how well Niel went with all the other things he had going on in his life. Niel had a construction and development company that paid all his bills, went bust when things were bad, made a packet when the market was good... so keeping on top of this must have been difficult.

Frank certainly ranked Niel as a top driver, saying that he could have gone a long way if he'd focussed on racing. But he also reckoned him to be a bit distant, having nothing to do with people in racing unless he had to. If he wanted tyres, he'd send someone down and write the cheque... they apparently lived just two doors apart at one stage and Niel never spoke to Frank once.

A much more complimentary wrap-up than he gave anyone else... or is it the passage of time?

[normbeechey]

Ray,

You mentioned Peter Woodward's Elfin 350 earlier in this thread. Do you know if the car is still around???

I don't think I have heard of its whereabouts for some time. I was a great looking car.

Chris.
www.MotorsportArchive.com

[Ray Bell]

Nor have I...

That would be a 'difficult' car today, as it had one of those extremely valuable Coventry Climax FPF engines in it. I would hazard a guess that the Climax engine has been sold and the car sits awaiting some kind of replacement.

[Dick Willis]

John Holmes of Toowoomba Qld. has it, the Climax engine dissappeared many years ago, he also has more Birranas than anyone else and has never been known to sell any of the many cars he has

[Bruce Moxon]

Niel crashed the T300 testing it. He was in Royal North Shore Hospital, in Sydney, recovering from burns. Bob Muir was visiting my father (John Moxon) who was in the hospital with complications from an accident in a Formula Vee some time before that left him a quadraplegic.

Bob saw Niel on a gurney, double-took and asked what he was doing there.

Niel sold Bob the wreck there and then!

Or so I've heard, anyway!


Bruce Moxon

[Paul Newby]

Originally posted by Dick Willis
John Holmes of Toowoomba Qld. has it, the Climax engine dissappeared many years ago, he also has more Birranas than anyone else and has never been known to sell any of the many cars he has

Dick,

What Birranas does John have?

I only know of Ross Hodgson's 374 that races in NSW Historics.

From what I've read these were beautifully built cars, probably too advanced and expensive for the categories they were designed to compete in. It would be good to see more of these cars that were representative of our local racing of the time, then the F2 / Atlantic Chevrons and Lolas that raced in the States. Just my opinion.

[David McKinney]

F/Atlantic-spec Lolas and Chevrons did of course race in Australia, as well as Marches and Ralts
But I know what you mean ;)

[Dick Willis]

Sorry, Paul, Birrana type numbers are not my forte. I know none of them are runners, but I think one is a Formula Ford and another may be the one that raced in the UK.

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Dick Willis
Sorry, Paul, Birrana type numbers are not my forte. I know none of them are runners, but I think one is a Formula Ford and another may be the one that raced in the UK.

Dick

There has been considerable discussion of the Birranas on this thread at "another place". Anything you can contribute on where some of these cars may be now would be most helpful.

Allen

[Dick Willis]

Allen, I'll be seeing the man concerned at an event in about 8 weeks time and will try and extract some more info at that time. Birranas, though have had a good coverage on the thread on Australian constructors several weeks ago.

[Ray Bell]

At which event would that be, Dick?

I'd love to catch up with John Holmes some time, he's so near impossible to reach!

Birrana type numbering was simple... the first digit was the category, ie 2 for F2, 3 for F3. The remaining two digits were for the year. So F71 was the first FF, 272 the prototype F2 that Peter Brock raced, 273 an F2 car (twin Cam Ford) made in 1973, 374 a Formula 3 car from 1974 (1300 single cam), 274 one of the last F2 cars and the model that Bob and Marj Brown took to England for Bob Muir to drive there.

As for the filling of modern Historic fields with 'Chevrons and Lolas' and the like, I quite agree. The ME5 goes offshore for somebody to surprise the local Can-Am set and other cars like it, we get cars that never ran here... and David, there was only ever the one Chevron here, wasn't there? Paul England's, driven by Larry and Peter? And, I think, one Lola... John Davis ran it in F2 (single cam 1600), but I think it had a prior life.

In all, we probably had about four Marches and then little else among the imported stuff before the Ralts arrived.

Most of our grids were Elfins and Birranas, with the Birranas generally up the front. They weren't much more expensive than the Elfins, I don't think. There was the odd Bowin, plenty of Cheetahs in F3 especially, and a few Rennmaxes, a Kaditcha or two and a Dolphin.

What we see today in Historic racing is certainly unrepresentative...

Then again, keeping on top of a Birrana probably took a bit more effort?

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Ray Bell

As for the filling of modern Historic fields with 'Chevrons and Lolas' and the like, I quite agree. The ME5 goes offshore for somebody to surprise the local Can-Am set and other cars like it, we get cars that never ran here... and David, there was only ever the one Chevron here, wasn't there? Paul England's, driven by Larry and Peter? And, I think, one Lola... John Davis ran it in F2 (single cam 1600), but I think it had a prior life.

In all, we probably had about four Marches and then little else among the imported stuff before the Ralts arrived.

Most of our grids were Elfins and Birranas, with the Birranas generally up the front. They weren't much more expensive than the Elfins, I don't think. There was the odd Bowin, plenty of Cheetahs in F3 especially, and a few Rennmaxes, a Kaditcha or two and a Dolphin.

What we see today in Historic racing is certainly unrepresentative...

Then again, keeping on top of a Birrana probably took a bit more effort?

Not to mention the TVR in another category !!

[Ray Bell]

Does somebody have a Griffin?

Then there's the Amilcar-AC, of course...

TVRs are fine...

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Does somebody have a Griffin?

Then there's the Amilcar-AC, of course...

TVRs are fine...

Oh yes, TVRs are fine - my point was how many road going examples do you see?

how many were imported just to race?

TVR Griffith is the case in in point. Big V8 stuck in a lightweight body and imported into the country to trounce MGBs, Triumphs, Zs, 2000s, Fiat 124!! and big Healeys which were brought into the country in large numbers.

[Ray Bell]

You could almost say the same of some of those Healeys, there are bits and pieces on them that were never used 'in the period'... but which have been imported to help them trounce MGBs, Fiat 125s and TR3as.

But you're right, never ever was a Griffin regularly raced in Australia 'in the period'... though there was one or two about.

[Dick Willis]

Ray, the Leyburn Sprints on Aug 23/24.
Although this is getting somewhat OT from Neil Allen, TNF'ers may be interested to know that this event has been held annually in August since 1998, I think, around the streets of the very small Queensland town of Leyburn, the locality which hosted the 1949 Australian Grand Prix, which is quite another story in itself.
The course is roughly rectangular in shape with some chicanes, about one kilometer in length.
The event usually attracts almost 200 competitors with various types of "Historic" cars although quite often some really interesting cars appear, they usually get five runs over the course, but the amazing thing is the number of spectators who come every year, said to be five to ten thousand.
Really amazing as the Leyburn area is well and truly one of the least desirable places you would ever want to go to, freezing cold at night, hot as hell in summer and hardly a blade of green grass on sight.
But the event has a special attraction which makes it almost obligatory for me to go there every year and I hope to see some of our TNFers there this August.

[Ray Bell]

Agreed, Dick... it's an unusual event.

Actually, I think it was first run in 1996, certainly there was at least two prior to the 50th anniversary year, as that was the purpose of the event in the first place... to direct attention to the 50th anniversary of the first AGP in Queensland.

I think my timing's a little out to make it to that one... I may be down south that weekend... but I may be able to make it on the Saturday if I organise things properly... will have to wait and see. I've written an article for their programme, however.

Indeed, the description of the place as one unlikely to attract a visitor is correct. I recall the first time I went there, c. 1978 or so, looking for the old circuit. It was no more attractive then, but to drive into this bush hamlet during the event and to be confronted with the sight of cars parked everywhere is quite stunning. One can only imagine what it was like to have arrived for the GP on that distant morning and found even more cars and three to six times as many people standing out in the sun to watch the original event.

Sure is, Dick... a long way removed from Niel Allen... he was a Warwick Farm kind of guy...

[Leo D]

Will he be at the Tasman Revival meeting?

[Ray Bell]

I'm prepared to bet that you couldn't keep him away...

He is, I learned in a conversation with him a year or so ago, just so keen about those times, about the cars and about the racing.

I look forward very much to seeing him. But I think so many will be there that it will be hard to catch up with just everyone you want to.

Any particular reason you ask, Leo?

[Bernd]

Yes Niel is scheduled to be at the Revival event. Not sure which day??

Ray that Lakeside time was a storming lap. Was that with the benefit of Aerofoils? If not nimble as the McLaren was, with only a 1.6 that was really something special.

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Dick Willis
Sorry, Paul, Birrana type numbers are not my forte. I know none of them are runners, but I think one is a Formula Ford and another may be the one that raced in the UK.

One Birrana not owned by one J Holmes as 273-009 ex E Busselman---B Muir, as i own this car and have so since it finished it's UK excursion ....................... I have the car minus gearbox but Complete with BDG & BDD engines.......................

[Ray Bell]

No aerofoils... this time was set on the Friday, by the way. He was on his way to matching it when he went off the road on the Saturday and had that enormous crash that proved for all time that it's better to stay with the car.

Don't forget that the FVA, though 900cc down on an FPF Climax, was only about 20bhp shy. A bit lower in torque, of course, but this was a very light car.

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
At which event would that be, Dick?

I'd love to catch up with John Holmes some time, he's so near impossible to reach!

Birrana type numbering was simple... the first digit was the category, ie 2 for F2, 3 for F3. The remaining two digits were for the year. So F71 was the first FF, 272 the prototype F2 that Peter Brock raced, 273 an F2 car (twin Cam Ford) made in 1973, 374 a Formula 3 car from 1974 (1300 single cam), 274 one of the last F2 cars and the model that Bob and Marj Brown took to England for Bob Muir to drive there.

As for the filling of modern Historic fields with 'Chevrons and Lolas' and the like, I quite agree. The ME5 goes offshore for somebody to surprise the local Can-Am set and other cars like it, we get cars that never ran here... and David, there was only ever the one Chevron here, wasn't there? Paul England's, driven by Larry and Peter? And, I think, one Lola... John Davis ran it in F2 (single cam 1600), but I think it had a prior life.

In all, we probably had about four Marches and then little else among the imported stuff before the Ralts arrived.

Most of our grids were Elfins and Birranas, with the Birranas generally up the front. They weren't much more expensive than the Elfins, I don't think. There was the odd Bowin, plenty of Cheetahs in F3 especially, and a few Rennmaxes, a Kaditcha or two and a Dolphin.

What we see today in Historic racing is certainly unrepresentative...

Then again, keeping on top of a Birrana probably took a bit more effort?

Not true ,no more effort than other makes and they are not well represented in historics at all............ cheers P.N....

[Peter Brennan]

I have Neil's Elfin 400 Chev in my shed,does not get used often unfortunatly.Pete

[Ray Bell]

Is it rebodied as original, Peter?

Never liked that dud bodywork Fred Gibson put on it!

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I'm prepared to bet that you couldn't keep him away...

He is, I learned in a conversation with him a year or so ago, just so keen about those times, about the cars and about the racing.

I look forward very much to seeing him. But I think so many will be there that it will be hard to catch up with just everyone you want to.

Any particular reason you ask, Leo?

Ray, What prompted me to ask was him being mentioned on the Norm Beechey Mustang thread.... since I'm interested in 60's Touring Cars.... Big Banger Sports Cars... F5000..... it would only follow that I'm interested in a guy that was good in ALL OF THEM..... yes?

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Peter Brennan
I have Neil's Elfin 400 Chev in my shed,does not get used often unfortunatly.Pete

The last 400 I saw, which I thought was yours Peter, was the dark blue one?.... At Winton I think?.... or am I getting confused?....

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Leo D
Ray, What prompted me to ask was him being mentioned on the Norm Beechey Mustang thread.... since I'm interested in 60's Touring Cars.... Big Banger Sports Cars... F5000..... it would only follow that I'm interested in a guy that was good in ALL OF THEM..... yes?

That certainly follows, I have to say...

He didn't achieve much in the Mustang, however. And in reality he never achieved much in any of his cars. The inspiring thing that Niel did was provide whoever was on top of any category with worthwhile opposition.

For instance, you can't tell me that KB and Leo wouldn't have been worried about his 52.7 at Lakeside that day. They'd never been that fast around there.

Not everyone understood, however, and I always felt the press never properly appreciated him. It was an absolute pity that he failed in the Tasman Cup after winning the New Zealand Grand Prix. Did you see him striding away from the whole field that day at Sandown?

[Leo D]

Yes I was at Sandown that day Ray..... I think your first post on this thread summed it up pretty well... My memory was that the race was over before it started.... Wasn't it on the warm up that something lodged in the throttle mechanism somewhere causing him to buzz the engine?..... Thus leading to the problem in the race?... I think he was the guy to beat on that day, no doubt.

[Peter Brennan]

Originally posted by Leo D


The last 400 I saw, which I thought was yours Peter, was the dark blue one?.... At Winton I think?.... or am I getting confused?....

That was it,it's been out twice in 10 years,shame really.I love driving the car.Pete

[Peter Brennan]

My Elfin 400

[seldo]

Originally posted by Ray Bell

.........
He didn't achieve much in the Mustang, however. And in reality he never achieved much in any of his cars. The inspiring thing that Niel did was provide whoever was on top of any category with worthwhile opposition..........

I don't think you do him justice Ray. By my assessment, Neil was very successful in every car he got in, from the Elan onwards, and the main impediment to "success" was that his business interests meant that he often missed important races and did not string championships together. But when he was there he was always a force to be reckoned with - helped of course by being able to afford all the good gear and the right preparation.
But he sure as hell kept them honest...

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Peter Brennan
My Elfin 400

And it's at Winton..... Glad to see my memory hasn't deserted me altogether!

[Ray Bell]

Leo... first of all, Niel didn't miss title rounds unless there was no hope of winning... if he committed himself to try and win a Championship he'd be there...

And my comment was about his lack of 'runs on the board' type successes, titles won, major races won. He acquitted himself very well at all times, but all too often things didn't go his way at a crucial time.

Even the change in the format of a race once cruelled it for him. Did you know he would have won the RAC Trophy race in his Lotus 23 had it not been held as a handicap? Look that up in your RCN.

Peter...

Mate, you're going to have to get the saw out and lop those sharp headlight covers off the front of that car. It only ever ran with those about twice (Sandown, Longford... I think that was all), the next four or five years they simply weren't there.

As well as that, they're dangerous (aerodynamically) on fast circuits.

White with dark red stripes would be a nice touch, too!

[Peter Brennan]

Ray,
Firstly i like the body as Garrie made it,and i will not cut off the front under any circumstances.Secondly,the horns were not the problem causing the lift,it was air damming under the guards and could not escape,all that was required was to cut slots in the rear of the front guards.I discussed this at length with Neil,he found out the cause later,and would not have cut the nose off.He suggested i leave it as is.Also i ran the car at Adelaide in 1990,175 mph down Brabham straight did not present a problem,in fact it was making so much downforce we had to reinforce the nose brackets at the meeting.Pete