
McLaren MP4-26 (merged)
#1
Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:14
since there was already a bit of news concerning the 26 (in the 25 topic), why not start the 26 topic right.
My first question is if the car will implement the mercedes engine cover:
http://www.gpupdate....w-engine-cover/
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#2
Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:23
I always found that engine cover very good looking, but I always doubted if it was really much of an improvement of drag reduction as no other team tried to implement it or said anything about it...Hi guys,
since there was already a bit of news concerning the 26 (in the 25 topic), why not start the 26 topic right.
My first question is if the car will implement the mercedes engine cover:
http://www.gpupdate....w-engine-cover/
#3
Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:23
Hi guys,
since there was already a bit of news concerning the 26 (in the 25 topic), why not start the 26 topic right.
My first question is if the car will implement the mercedes engine cover:
http://www.gpupdate....w-engine-cover/
I'm sure all the teams have modelled it, and if there was a real advantage it would already have been copied.
#4
Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:24
#5
Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:32
Yeah, this new cover was actually visible in the early stages of the season, which is why they were able to just modify it. They had it planned from day 1. It might be adopted by new teams, the overral package of the MGP-W01 wasn't good enough to see whether it made a difference.You can't change the engine cover crash structure during the season...
I was wondering if Exhaust Blown Diffusers are gonna play a role next season, what with the dubious diffusers finally being taken out and single decks coming in. The way I understood the EBD to work is that if there's no longer any openings or holes for air to flow above the diffuser then the EBD is rendered useless as it's not driving any useful air?
#6
Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:33
The 1989 Benetton ran with two air intakes also, although the intakes themselves were lower down.
http://www.motorspor...erses/ami04.jpg
I seriously doubt that Mercedes running such an air intake will affect McLaren even if they both share the same engine.
#7
Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:38
You can't change the engine cover crash structure during the season...
The engine cover is not part of the crash structure, and as Merc have changed their cover during the season then so could the other teams.
#8
Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:42
The aerodynamic advantage is clear to see in my opinion.
The question is about weight. How much heavier (if at all) is it compared to conventional roll hoops.
My feeling is that it comes with a weight penalty, which is one of the reasons why the MGP W01 has a CoG that is too high (stated by Ross Brawn).
Given this, I will not be surprised if Mercedes ditches the setup for next year. Unless they can make it lighter of course.
#9
Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:45
Yes, but the airbox above the drivers head is part of the crash structure. Mercedes had a splitter in the airbox at the launch and hence it formed part of the crash structure and they could move their air intakes lower and to the side. No other team could do it legally.The engine cover is not part of the crash structure, and as Merc have changed their cover during the season then so could the other teams.
#11
Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:47
The crash structure is the vertical blade in the case of the W01.The engine cover is not part of the crash structure, and as Merc have changed their cover during the season then so could the other teams.
A conventional crash structure, which all other teams run, is a hoop.
Merc launched their car with the vertical blade (crash structure) in place, but with (non structural) bodywork around it that made it look like a conventional hoop. They did this so they could buy time to finalize the new airbox as that is a critical part in engine performance.
So yes, they changed the bodywork, but that is separate and not part of the crash structure.
Edited by Timstr11, 17 October 2010 - 11:16.
#12
Posted 17 October 2010 - 11:15
Edited by Curt000, 17 October 2010 - 11:16.
#13
Posted 17 October 2010 - 11:24
KERS remains optional.Have all teams got to run kers next year? Or is it like 2009 an optional thing?
However I think all teams that can afford it will run it.
The tweet I posted in the other thread said something about Mac's KERS to be 'more hydraulic' and 'less electronic': http://twitter.com/R...tus/27228631172
Not sure what to make of that. Will they run a hydraulic KERS that stores energy by pressurizing fluid during deceleration? This will mean they will not use a battery energy storage option and thus not the Mercedes system.
Also see the bit about hydraulic KERS that McLaren developed in 1998:
http://www.racecar-e...the-basics.html
Edited by Timstr11, 17 October 2010 - 11:37.
#14
Posted 17 October 2010 - 11:41
Yeah if you're actually proposing a thread about it, it would have been nice putting a bit more effort in.
#15
Posted 17 October 2010 - 18:16
#16
Posted 17 October 2010 - 18:28
#17
Posted 17 October 2010 - 18:48
Makes sense, that's what they did with their garage. I do like the current livery.I've heard a rumour the next years car is red and white, not silver/red
#18
Posted 17 October 2010 - 18:57
#19
Posted 17 October 2010 - 19:02
Indeed, the livery is beautifulI hope not, the current scheme is already more iconic than whatever other livery McLaren ever had. Well in my opinion at least

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#20
Posted 17 October 2010 - 19:05
#21
Posted 17 October 2010 - 19:06
Shame if true tough that the chrome dissapears....
#22
Posted 17 October 2010 - 19:08
It's the most beautiful car on the trackIndeed, the livery is beautiful
chrome/silver /rocket red & black is goreous
I don't think it can be outdone from any other colour combination
perfect balance from agressiveness and coolness
#23
Posted 17 October 2010 - 19:10
Brawn GP looked cooler in my honest opinionIt's the most beautiful car on the track
chrome/silver /rocket red & black is goreous
I don't think it can be outdone from any other colour combination
perfect balance from agressiveness and coolness
#24
Posted 17 October 2010 - 19:17
I hope not, the current scheme is already more iconic than whatever other livery McLaren ever had. Well in my opinion at least
More iconic then the 23 years they ran the red/white Marlboro livery in which they won 7 WCC and 9 WDC and had drivers such as Prost, Rosberg, Senna, Lauda, Hunt and Fittipaldi at the wheel?
For me the chrome McLaren is only just ahead of the Winfield Williams and Renault R28.
#25
Posted 17 October 2010 - 19:20
cool but a bit paleBrawn GP looked cooler in my honest opinion
no warm colours (red, orange)
#26
Posted 17 October 2010 - 19:35
I liked the yellow/white/black combo a bit more than chrome/red, but I have to say that these two with Mercedes behind are the cooler.cool but a bit pale
no warm colours (red, orange)
Anyway, and I say this as a graphic designer, if it looks cool or not is not as important as the values it transmit.
For example, the chrome livery transmit: hi tech, modern, high value, expensive
The Brawn GP livery could transmit: modernity (yellow/black), low budget/not expensive (a lot of white space), a not so deep identity (white)
Ferrari red: fury, speed, rage, violence
Force-india (white, green, orange): tropical, sun, relaxed, calm...
Personally, I think that for racing, the red is just the best. A red car crossing the line just can't get any better.
#27
Posted 17 October 2010 - 19:47
Yes, more iconic than some arbitrary tobacco sponsorship indeed. That chrome is unique to McLaren and like Massacrator said, there's much more linked to these colours than arbitrary tobacco colours could ever hope for.More iconic then the 23 years they ran the red/white Marlboro livery in which they won 7 WCC and 9 WDC and had drivers such as Prost, Rosberg, Senna, Lauda, Hunt and Fittipaldi at the wheel?
For me the chrome McLaren is only just ahead of the Winfield Williams and Renault R28.
Blah blah Senna here we go again with that. I even prefer when people go on about Kubica than having the same old tired rose tinted view of the past
#28
Posted 17 October 2010 - 19:51
#29
Posted 17 October 2010 - 19:56
there is an advtanage but only without the F-duct which is banned next year so i wouldnt be surprised if everyone copies itI'm sure all the teams have modelled it, and if there was a real advantage it would already have been copied.
#30
Posted 17 October 2010 - 20:07
Than you know about the psycological effect of colours, if you are graphic designerI liked the yellow/white/black combo a bit more than chrome/red, but I have to say that these two with Mercedes behind are the cooler.
Anyway, and I say this as a graphic designer, if it looks cool or not is not as important as the values it transmit.
For example, the chrome livery transmit: hi tech, modern, high value, expensive
The Brawn GP livery could transmit: modernity (yellow/black), low budget/not expensive (a lot of white space), a not so deep identity (white)
Ferrari red: fury, speed, rage, violence
Force-india (white, green, orange): tropical, sun, relaxed, calm...
Personally, I think that for racing, the red is just the best. A red car crossing the line just can't get any better.

(once I starded to study graphic design, but it was not the right thing for me)
Red is the optimal colour for racing
and silver /chrome for a high tech product
#31
Posted 17 October 2010 - 20:40
Brawn GP looked cooler in my honest opinion
I liked Brawn GP's colours, and I miss the individuality, but in my opinion McLaren's are much better.
Well you would say that you're a Ferrari fanPersonally, I think that for racing, the red is just the best. A red car crossing the line just can't get any better.

Now if you were to say a Red and Crome car, you'll be on to something ;)
#32
Posted 17 October 2010 - 21:03
Edited by Curt000, 17 October 2010 - 21:05.
#33
Posted 17 October 2010 - 21:06
Ferrari seems to be the only team which have kept to that tradition and only raced in other colours on two occasions (white with blue stripes) due to a dispute with the italian government.
#34
Posted 17 October 2010 - 21:21
I've heard a rumour the next years car is red and white, not silver/red
Now as much as Orange is a McLaren colour, surely the classic image everyone has of a McLaren is the Marlboro liveried models... a return in some form to that would be cool, even though I love the chrome/red/black. My own favourite would be to replace the chrome with black...
#35
Posted 17 October 2010 - 22:19
#36
Posted 17 October 2010 - 22:22
YesIs the f-duct banned next year?
#37
Posted 17 October 2010 - 22:50
#38
Posted 18 October 2010 - 00:48
I remember a pshop someone did some years ago with McLaren going black where the crome is. Now that was good looking.
Black and Red sounds like it might work fantastically!
I think it would be awseom if a team painted a car a flat grey, like they do on US navy fighters, and Air Force F-15s. Then, highlight the join lines and bolt/rivet holes in a darker shade, so the car shows that it is built out of lots of parts.
Or purple! Has any team tried purple yet? Add some under-floor lighting for the tunnels in Monaco and Singapore, and then these (already) low riders would shine!
Edited by thelastspot, 18 October 2010 - 00:49.
#39
Posted 18 October 2010 - 06:01
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#40
Posted 18 October 2010 - 06:59
KERS remains optional.
However I think all teams that can afford it will run it.
The tweet I posted in the other thread said something about Mac's KERS to be 'more hydraulic' and 'less electronic': http://twitter.com/R...tus/27228631172
Not sure what to make of that. Will they run a hydraulic KERS that stores energy by pressurizing fluid during deceleration? This will mean they will not use a battery energy storage option and thus not the Mercedes system.
Also see the bit about hydraulic KERS that McLaren developed in 1998:
http://www.racecar-e...the-basics.html
Hmm it may be that a hydraulic solution is more compact than electric or flywheel, and lighter, cheaper, and you can move it anywhere as its on the end of a hose. So it could form part of the moveable ballast maybe if its designed the right shape?
I used an accumulator in a special crane design 20 years back, the accumulator stored enough pressure to operate the hydraulics in the event of an engine shut down and get the load to safety, so I know they can store a decent shot of energy. Accumulator technology will have moved on since in leaps and bounds.
I would like to also see:
Shorter wheelbase
Flexing a la RB
The anvil gone
More compliant ride / less pitch and yaw sensitive aero
The team also have to avoid wasting time on another F duct blind development alley, its more important that the 26 is fundamentally right first.
Edited by Stormsky68, 18 October 2010 - 06:59.
#41
Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:18
#42
Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:23
Hmm it may be that a hydraulic solution is more compact than electric or flywheel, and lighter, cheaper, and you can move it anywhere as its on the end of a hose. So it could form part of the moveable ballast maybe if its designed the right shape?
I used an accumulator in a special crane design 20 years back, the accumulator stored enough pressure to operate the hydraulics in the event of an engine shut down and get the load to safety, so I know they can store a decent shot of energy. Accumulator technology will have moved on since in leaps and bounds.
How does it work? The hydraulic fluid doesn't compress does it, so what stores the energy? I saw this is what Mac's original banned system used, so it's quite interesting if they have an edge with it.
Especially if it's a part-electric/ part-hydraulic system, a hybrid within a hybrid.
#43
Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:28
Its what made the Macca court case so ridiculous.
If the team does its job right and the 26 is a good one, it won't matter what Ferrari know, if the cars a dog it won't matter either.
#44
Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:29
Hmm it may be that a hydraulic solution is more compact than electric or flywheel, and lighter, cheaper, and you can move it anywhere as its on the end of a hose. So it could form part of the moveable ballast maybe if its designed the right shape?
I used an accumulator in a special crane design 20 years back, the accumulator stored enough pressure to operate the hydraulics in the event of an engine shut down and get the load to safety, so I know they can store a decent shot of energy. Accumulator technology will have moved on since in leaps and bounds.
I would like to also see:
Shorter wheelbase
Flexing a la RB
The anvil gone
More compliant ride / less pitch and yaw sensitive aero
The team also have to avoid wasting time on another F duct blind development alley, its more important that the 26 is fundamentally right first.
That's the key part for me. A car that's got a larger sweet-spot set-up-wise will be a major factor when it comes to understanding how to make best use of the new tyres.
#45
Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:32
How does it work? The hydraulic fluid doesn't compress does it, so what stores the energy? I saw this is what Mac's original banned system used, so it's quite interesting if they have an edge with it.
Especially if it's a part-electric/ part-hydraulic system, a hybrid within a hybrid.
I don't know how an F1 system will work, but in normal civi street systems you have a gas filled bag or a spring loaded piston which compresses and stores the energy. Hydraulic fluid is there as a means to transfer the energy for a purpose.
#46
Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:45
I don't know how an F1 system will work, but in normal civi street systems you have a gas filled bag or a spring loaded piston which compresses and stores the energy. Hydraulic fluid is there as a means to transfer the energy for a purpose.
Ah

#47
Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:56
#48
Posted 18 October 2010 - 10:16
Mount the accumulator in the nose on springs LOL no sir its definately not a mass damper sir....

Well I do hope the team have made the adjustment into the post-Max era and been more liberal with how they interpret the rules. That's the only way the car will match Newey's next effort.
#49
Posted 18 October 2010 - 10:42
How dare anyone ever THINK that ANY livery would beat the West liveried McLarens! I feel insulted as a McLaren fan hahaI hope not, the current scheme is already more iconic than whatever other livery McLaren ever had. Well in my opinion at least
#50
Posted 18 October 2010 - 11:09
My first question is if the car will implement the mercedes engine cover:
No, this sort of engine cover was agreed to be banned by the teams\FOTA.