13 replies to this topic

[Joe Fan]

So we all know the Jim Clark and Jackie Stewart were the greatest Scottish drivers but are there any others excluding David Coulthard? What about Irish drivers? Eddie Irvine and John Watson?

What about teams? Ecurie Ecosse and Eddie Jordan's team.

[Roger Clark]

THere's the border Rievers team which Jim Clark drove for early in his career. I don't know whether you can count RRC Walker's team; it ran in Scottish colours!

[Eric McLoughlin]

Ireland's contribution to top line motor sport has been relatively small, no doubt due to the small population levels (4.5 million including North and South). Northern Ireland on the whole has had a greater motor sport history, mainly because of its industrial background. Eire has had, for most of its history (from 1921 as The Irish Free State and since 1948 as the Irish Republic) an economy largely based on agriculture.

Undoubtedly, Ireland's most successful team has been Jordan, although they are, of necessity based in England. Lola is now also Irish owned, the propietor being Martin Birrane who also owns Mondello Park, the Republic of Ireland's only proper race circuit.

Probably Ireland's greatest contribution was in the early days of motor sport. At that time, the country was still fully integrated as part of the UK but did not have the same speed restrictions on public roads as the British mainland. Because of this, when Britain won the right to host the 1903 Gordon Bennett races, the event was actually held at The Curragh, County Kildare (now in the Republic and not far, ironically, from today's Mondello Park). Competion on public roads is still allowed in Ireland (North and South) but is now restricted to motorcycle racing and rallying.

As for drivers, only a few have reached top flight status. Both Eddie Irvine and John Watson have done well in the Formula 1 World Drivers championship. Both are from Northern Ireland. Other Irish drivers of note were:

Derek Daly (Ensign,Tyrell,Williams)
David Kennedy (Aurora Formula 1 series)
Martin Donnelly (Lotus)
Kenny Acheson (RAM)
Tommy Byrne
Martin Roe
Desmond Titherington (ocassional Jaguar drives in the 50's)

[Roger Clark]

The 1903 Gordon Bennett race needed an act of parliament, but presumably that was easier for a distant colony than for the mainland.

Sir Henry Segrave was born in what is now the REpublic of Ireland.

[green-blood]

The Gordon Bennet race is regularly re-run as an historic event and attracts some of the most magnificent vintage machinery, a bit like the olde Egerland London-Brighton but with greener scenery.

Dont forget Dundrod in Norn Iron, this great road race where Moss made his mark in a borrowed XK120 and Fangio drove the BRM (I think) in the wet on country lanes..

Also every year in Dublin City Centre there are the Phoenix Park races, the park is the largest City centre park with the exception of Central Park NY in the world. This was the scene of the Irish Grand Prix as run for 4 years in the 1930s. Today Formaula Ford / Vee, Fiat Uno / Punto, Caterham 7, historic saloons (mgb/c, porsche 911, Heallys, Lotus Cortinas) etc race over a 2 mile triangular course over an August weekend. In recent years Hill(D) and Villeneuve (J) have demonstrated cars, JV was more spectacular, surprised? Some good close racing is always on view and every year there is an invitation class from the historic series', we've had pre 63 F1 racing coopers V 250Fs 2 years ago as well as Bullion in a Williams F1 - mad.

Come over if you can, you wont be disappointed.

[Vin]

I may be wrong but I heard recently that the colour 'British Racing Green' originated in the 1903 race mentioned above due to the races location.
Dodgy source though.

[Roger Clark]

The 1952 race at dundrod was also Moss' only race in a V16. Moss ws left at the start and while he was trying to catch up, Fangio spun. THere is a famous photograph of the two V16 facing each other, with Fangio travelling backwards at almost racing speed.

I also beleive that the term British Racing Green originated with the 1903 Gordon Bennett, but I think I read it in Lord montagu's history of those races, which is a generally reliable source. Without checking, I don't know what colour the Napiers were painted before that.

[Eric McLoughlin]

I'm a huge fan of the Phoenix Park races. The setting is a real throw-back to the era of true road races. The crowds are kept back from the track by lengths of scaffolding and the Park's natural obstacles (benches, lamp standards, trees, milestones etc. are protected by straw bales - just like the old days). When I lived in Dublin I used to go religously every year (1975 to 1985)and I also managed to go last year. Unfortunately, I don't think the event is as good as it as it used to be. In the 70's the highlight of the weekend was the Dublin Grand Prix, for Formula Atlantic cars. They were awesome in the setting of the Park. Some good overseas drivers used to take part (eg. Tony Trimmer, Gunnar Nilson, Tony Brise)together with the home grown talents (Eddie Jordan, Derek Daly, Martin Donnelly etc.). In 1980, they even had a race for sports prototypes which included Porsche 917's, Lolas and Chevrons. How they fitted on the narrow road is a mystery.

Another road track which rarely gets mentioned is Dunboyne in Co. Meath. Cars used to race there but too many fatalities brought its use as a circuit to an end. I was taken to a motorcycle race there, probably around 1965,but even the bikes don't race there now.

[This message has been edited by Eric McLoughlin (edited 05-24-2000).]

[green-blood]

2 years ago the thundersports historic series ran 2 races, one on each day of the weekend for the old open sportscars, Lolas and chevrons as you say were represented again, the noise, wow.

My earlies motorsport memeory is from the Park circa '79 and a mini in the saloon car race completing half thye race distance on three wheels, as you can imagine the car never once pointed straight!!! I was enthralled.

[KzKiwi]

Eric,

You mentioned Tommy Bryne in an earlier thread. How good was he? From recollection he came up very quickly through the junior formulae with very good results. I think he drove briefly for Theodore in F1 before hopping across to race in the USA. I also remember reading that he was considered brash and very cocky, perhaps this counted against him?

[Eric McLoughlin]

I lost track of Mr Byrne's career years ago. Was he the one who ended up driving Formula 3 in Mexico? My one abiding memory is him broadsiding a gas lamp standard in the Park in a Formula Ford, knocking the lamp over and splitting the car in two, luckily with no injury to himself.

[Mike Argetsinger]

On Tommy Bryne I can only add that he was indeed a terrific driver. I raced against him on a number of occasions so my comment is based on "closeup and personal" observation. He was also a great character and there were many Tommy Bryne stories at the time.

[MoMurray]

I just found this thread by searching. As I grew up in Ireland, I also spent a lot of weekends in the Park and Mondello. (BTW Eric, on your list of Irish drivers, Micheal Roe was the correct name of the FF standout from Naas. He went on to race CanAm in the states with some success but personal difficulties ended his racing career).

When Tommy Byrne took out the lamp post in '79, I was the marshall he missed by inches. I have a great picture of that which I sent to eric but I don't know how to post it. Poor Tommy jumped too early at an F1 drive and ended up in a fun but poor team. Theodore was owned by Teddy Yip but managed by Dubliner Sid Taylor and that is how Tommy got his chance. Unfortunately, the car was crap and he needed a better learning environment than they could provide so his F1 career ended almost before it started. He went on to race ARS (Indy Lights precurser) in the US with a lot of success. The last time I spoke with him, he was living in Florida and doing occasional driver training for BMW. What a great character he was and not cocky at all by my recollection.

Derek Higgins was the one who raced Mexican F3 and is now in Indy Lights. Although Born in Dublin, Higgins was raised in England.

[fines]

Tommy Byrne also raced in Mexican F3 (1995)!