449 replies to this topic

[bourbon]

I seriously find it funny when people compare drivers or cars independent of one another.

The fundamental truth of F1 is that with out the car, the drivers would have to run a foot race. I am not sure who would win a foot race between them, but one thing is for sure, they would look awfully funny out there, sweating for the lead in their firesuits.

And without the driver, we'd have a car show. How fun would the 'fastest car' debate be then? At least they would all be equally reliable!

Always the car + driver.
__________

My second comment in this confessional is the beauty of RBR in F1. If you go to a GP on a Wednesday and walk from one end of the garages to the other, starting at HRT, you hear silence interrupted by mechanics at work and momentary engine tests. But mostly silence. then as you approach the middle you start to hear an odd sound that is rather out of place; like the buzzing of a bee with hiccups. You keep walking. And the sound grows louder, until you reach the RBR garage, where the buzzing has turned into the concrete sound of loud arsed music rocking out of the garage. The first time I experienced it just that way and all I could think was AWESOME. The last time I attended a GP, nothing had changed. All I could think was Bravo Red Bull! Small things.

Edited by bourbon, 15 December 2012 - 08:52.

[SpartanChas]

I'd probably like SebVet a lot more if it weren't for the ridiculous praise he gets. People saying he's one of the all time greatest, but mostly after brazil where the media are kissing his ass saying how brilliantly he drove but always seeming to overlook the fact that he recklessly went straight to the apex on the first lap of the most important race of his career so far. He was lucky he even got to the end of the first lap.

I don't like anyone talking about current drivers and all time greatest at all actually. Wait for the rest of their career to unfold before anyone even thinks of doing that I say.

[Risil]

I don't like anyone talking about current drivers and all time greatest at all actually. Wait for the rest of their career to unfold before anyone even thinks of doing that I say.

It's the media looking for a story and trying to shock you out of your comfort zone. It stands to reason that eventually we'll see another driver as good as Senna or Clark, right there in front of our eyes, doesn't it?

[apoka]

I'd probably like SebVet a lot more if it weren't for the ridiculous praise he gets. People saying he's one of the all time greatest, but mostly after brazil where the media are kissing his ass saying how brilliantly he drove but always seeming to overlook the fact that he recklessly went straight to the apex on the first lap of the most important race of his career so far. He was lucky he even got to the end of the first lap.

I don't like anyone talking about current drivers and all time greatest at all actually. Wait for the rest of their career to unfold before anyone even thinks of doing that I say.

You have a point, but on the other hand a) past legends are sometimes glorified too much, b) superlatives sell better and c) most top drivers nowadways are not universally praised, but actually there are quite some swings from "greatest ever" to "lost it" in the media (Alonso after few not so good races is a good example).

[BullHead]

To be fair 3 x WDC at that age and at that small length of time in the sport is pretty impressive and can only point to possible future greatness. The only man one can seriously say might challenge Shueys 7 record at the moment....

[Eff One 2002]

Okay.

Neither Cristiano da Matta nor Sebastian Bourdais were given a fair go in F1, and both had the potential and talent/ability to be F1 WDCs. There, I said it.

Edited by Eff One 2002, 16 December 2012 - 01:43.

[BullHead]

Okay.

Neither Cristiano da Matta nor Sebastian Bourdais were given a fair go in F1, and both had the potential and talent/ability to be F1 WDCs. There, I said it.

Bourdais I'll go with, but da Matta? nah...

[Skinnyguy]

I'd probably like SebVet a lot more if it weren't for the ridiculous praise he gets.

You must hate with all your soul Alonso and Hamilton then

[Atreiu]

Id like a Pirelli Bridgestone Michelin tyre war and unlimited KERS.

[R Soul]

I think 20 GPs is too many for one season. 16 or 17 is enough. Any more and individual races feel less special.

[fisssssi]

Confession:

I'm incredibly moody after a bad race (bad as in not the result I wanted). I switch off the race as soon the checkered flag waves and spend the rest of Sunday complaining about it to my girlfriend, then Monday complaining about it to my coworkers.

2 or 3 days later though I get over it and watch the rest of the post-race coverage.

On the flip side though, a good race result puts me in a good mood for the rest of the week

[Zava]

I'd probably like SebVet a lot more if it weren't for the ridiculous praise he gets. People saying he's one of the all time greatest, but mostly after brazil where the media are kissing his ass saying how brilliantly he drove but always seeming to overlook the fact that he recklessly went straight to the apex on the first lap of the most important race of his career so far. He was lucky he even got to the end of the first lap.

I don't like anyone talking about current drivers and all time greatest at all actually. Wait for the rest of their career to unfold before anyone even thinks of doing that I say.

there is an upside of that: at least Hamilton can stop blabbering about Vettel missing apexes all the time.

[DanardiF1]

I probably dislike Vettel because of the way sports media nowadays likes to portray the current stars as being the best ever seen in their respective fields. Now that's no disrespect to Vettel, Messi, Bolt etc. because they are all fantastic, but I feel that the praise is overbearing and not necessarily a true reflection of their achievements within this period in their sports.

As examples: Vettel's 2011 season. Lots of media compared the dominant season to those of Schumacher and others, forgetting that Vettel had a lot more races to achieve his (well-deserved and still praiseworthy) successes in, and is also competing in an era of unprecedented reliability and safety. My point is that it might be easier for a driver to reach the highs of his potential now than previously. Also all this 'youngest ever ....' stuff is grating because the age at which drivers reach F1 and are able to succeed is falling all the time. It's not a record that you can compare to other great drivers because Fangio was in his 40's before he even got to race in a Grand Prix, Schumacher was just finishing serving his apprenticeship at Mercedes at Vettel's age etc etc.

Lionel Messi's 86 (and counting) calendar year goals: This 'record', like some of Vettel's 'youngest' awards, grates on me because it's essentially a made-up perimeter just for that person. No-one bothered about how many goals a player scored in a calendar year until someone realised Gerd Muller's previously unheralded record could be beaten. Messi is undoubtedly one of the greats (as is Vettel with what he's achieved) so there's no need to make these paradigms of achievement up. They stand up equally well when measured in the same light as their peers and predecessors, and the media is just talking them up to make their own work seem as though it was from a particularly golden era.

[Watkins74]

I find some of you driver fans who have commented on their favorite drivers haircuts in the last couple of days kinda creepy.

Some of you take the thing to a whole new level.

[Jimisgod]

Silverstone has never been that great a track.

Paul Ricard is a dull track and doesn't deserve an F1 spot.

Gurney would have been an F1 WDC had he made the right career choices.

Gilles V. was too wreckless to be an F1 WDC without the best car.

Coulthard was worse than most of the drivers in today's midfield.

In fact, Montoya, Ralf and Coulthard were all just journeymen who could barely take it to Schumacher once Mika was too old. Kimi and Alonso were too young to capitalize, and the Williams should have won a championship at some point between 2001 - 03.

Schumacher got trounced in his comeback, not because he was old, but because most of the newer drivers are more than equal with him.

[seahawk]

I have a soft spot for Michael Schumacher, Fernnado Alonso and Sebastian Vettel.

I do not go to F1 races anymore. The money spent is better invested in a week or two of holidays somewhere sunny.

[BullHead]

I do not go to F1 races anymore. The money spent is better invested in a week or two of holidays somewhere sunny.

Same here. The costs compared to other activities / holidays is crazy. Telling friends how much a weekend at the F1 was costing me was quite frankly embarrassing.

[Uwe]

I want pneumatical valves in the engines banned. Make camshaft driven valves and steel valve springs mandatory. And then lift the stupid rev limit for the engines.

[eronrules]

I sort of supported lewis to win 2007 WDC and kimi to loose as i thought he betrayed his fans by switching to Ferrari, thus i didn't care for his win in 2007 (which i should've )

the most loathsome circuit in F1 calender is Circuit de catalunya, not monaco or valencia (as we know there won't be much overtaking)

I hate the new Bus-stop chicane at spa, old one was way better

Edited by eronrules, 17 December 2012 - 09:31.

[Konsta]

I am thoroughly ashamed that I defended MS´s antics in 1994 against my brother who was an avid DH fan.

I kinda hate myself for congratulating "my team" when being clever but when a competitor does the same it´s cheating.

[Kingshark]

Gilles Villeneuve is the most overrated driver of all time.

Alain Prost was better than Ayrton Senna.

Murray Walker was a very annoying and often clueless commentator.

Eddie Jordan is a genius.

Paul Ricard and Lacuna Seca are over-hyped racing tracks.

Singapore Street Circuit is absolutely stunning, brilliant and underrated.

Michael Schumacher was actually the greatest, and not because of statistics alone.

Fernando Alonso has always been better and faster than Kimi Raikkonen.

Jarno Trulli had the talent and potential to be a world champion at least once.

Pastor Maldonado has a lot of talent and potential.

Phew. That felt good.

Edited by Mandzipop, 17 December 2012 - 22:42.
Senna fans are so religiously stupid that it hurts. British folks who complain about coverage are brutal idiots.

[danmills]

- I have never understood the obsession with the JPS livery. It's both ugly and not very imaginative.

- I miss Ferrari's black front and rear wings.

- I miss the 90's FIA F1 tv guitar intro.

- Senna was a great driver, agreed, one of the greatest, but I think people blow him to a ridiculous god-like invincible status WAY out of proportion probably aided because he perished young.

- I loved James Allen on tv. He was an exciting and enthusiastic commentator. These days, its too corporate and 'clean' talk. Bring back uncapped emotion.

- The whole kimi magnum ice cream thing. Yawn. It was a hot race. He ate an icecream. Your point...?

[MadYarpen]

I think F1 with the new engine regulations will be crap, and I expect that I'll stop to watch it after few races in 2014.

[sheepgobba]

- Button will never win another championship despite the wishful hopefuls at McLaren
- Hamilton made a catastrophic error to leave McLaren for Mercedes
- Vettel will be the next Nelson Piquet
- Rosberg will be destroyed at Mercedes
- Schumacher's comeback was miserable and thus tarnished his legacy

Edited by sheepgobba, 17 December 2012 - 11:13.

[toofast]

I hate McLaren + Hamilton combo. Now I don't mind Hamilton but still dislike McLaren.

[Barty]

- The stewards are interfering WAY too much with the racing these days. The caption "the incident between car number X and car number Y are under investigation by the stewards" is seen almost every race because of racing incidents. It's called racing for a reason - as long as people don't deliberately try to kill others no such penalties should be applied. Not allowed to change track position more than once? Ridiculous.

- I want the one-lap qualifying to return, makes it more unpredictable.

- F1 cars these days are way too reliable. When was the last time we saw an engine blow in a cloud of smoke? Bring back the spare cars as well.

- Refuelling should be possible again.

- Car numbers shall be CLEARLY VISIBLE on the nose and rear wing - a la beginning of the 90's. Especially important since people tend to change helmet designs often.

[TheUltimateWorrier]

- F1 cars these days are way too reliable. When was the last time we saw an engine blow in a cloud of smoke? Bring back the spare cars as well.

Sod his random rain/sprinkler system, Bernie should have a remote that randomly blows up engines of the cars during the race whenever Bernie wants to shake-up the race.

[Jimisgod]

Vettel will never win a WDC in a non Red Bull car.

Alonso today is equal to what Schumacher was in his prime (roughly 1997 to 2002) but he has a worse car in a closer field.

Rosberg is closer to Lewis than most think.

Kobayashi could match Hamilton in a good car.

Glock would have been a WDC contender in a top car, and still may be.

Heikki, on the other hand, is no better than Petrov.

[Fastcake]

- The stewards are interfering WAY too much with the racing these days. The caption "the incident between car number X and car number Y are under investigation by the stewards" is seen almost every race because of racing incidents. It's called racing for a reason - as long as people don't deliberately try to kill others no such penalties should be applied. Not allowed to change track position more than once? Ridiculous.

The fact that they are investigating does not mean anything is going to happen, quite the opposite in fact. Besides it's only in recent times that all these messages have been shown on the TV - how do you know the stewards weren't investigating just as many incidents in the past?

[bigarthurisgod]

I really don't like Valentino Rossi.
There, said it!

[BillBald]

- The stewards are interfering WAY too much with the racing these days. The caption "the incident between car number X and car number Y are under investigation by the stewards" is seen almost every race because of racing incidents. It's called racing for a reason - as long as people don't deliberately try to kill others no such penalties should be applied. Not allowed to change track position more than once? Ridiculous.

We are getting better racing, with a lot of side-by-side action, because drivers are now discouraged from pushing one another off the track.

[LiJu914]

We are getting better racing, with a lot of side-by-side action, because drivers are now discouraged from pushing one another off the track.

But it´s not limited to that. Almost every accident is penalised nowadays and most of them aren´t the result of blatant "fouls".

[stillOrange]

I think Kubica is a great driver but I'm pretty sure he will never win WDC, never drive for Ferrari, RBR or McLaren. I wouldn't be surprised if he would not win another race. Which is a shame ...

that was a month before his crash

I'm going to say it as now I will never be proven wrong or right:
Robert was better than Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel put together.

We have enough European races.

[BillBald]

But it´s not limited to that. Almost every accident is penalised nowadays and most of them aren´t the result of blatant "fouls".

Obviously we're never going to agree with every decision, but there was a time when the WDC could be won by a blatant foul.

What we have today is better.

[Andrew Hope]

I too find the fact 4-5 incidents are investigated in a race kinda tedious, but that isn't the stewards' fault, it's up to the drivers to race clean. It's like when you watch soccer and there's a thousand free kicks or American football with a dozen penalties every quarter, everyone gets pissed at the referee when it's up to the players not to break the rules. Over-zealous officiating is just as annoying as a genuinely dirty race/game with a load of penalties, but the reasons are different and not necessarily the stewards' fault.

[Tsarwash]

It's me that is sending Vettel those turds in the post.

[Slartibartfast]

I've just found out who's been sending me turds in the post.

[Les]

Going by a couple of posts above: Firstly the opinion that Rosberg will be destroyed by Hamilton. Totally correct, I think Rosberg is rubbish and has never done anything to excite me. I don't think he's on the same planet as Hamilton in terms of talent.

Vettel will never win another world championship without Red Bull? I couldn't say for certain but that wouldn't surprise me either. I think Button has a chance in the next two years but only if McLaren build a dominant car.

Edited by Les, 17 December 2012 - 14:31.

[Afterburner]

- I miss the 90's FIA F1 tv guitar intro.

Me too.

[Tuxy]

James Allen was overly and unfairly criticised.

Thank You.

NEVER understood why people attacked this guy so much.

[sopa]

I confess that discussing on the internet about some fast on-ground moving rockets going round in circles is useless and pointless, it is even more insane to get involved in some heated debates on how good anyone is in such activity.
BUT I still like to do it.

[Atreiu]

I confess I think Kimi would have won the 2010 title in the Ferrari by virtue of making less mistakes than anyone else and I guesstimate the one stop format that dominated most races would have suited him like as glove.

And I confess the young driver test should be scrapped and thrown in the trash can in exchange for either having 3rd cars back or giving rookies (or anyone who took part in 2 or less GPs in the last 20) a free test day on some thursdays of GPs.

And I confess I don't get why customer cars aren't allowed?

And last, for now, I think it should be an open engine formula. Race anything you want, but the fuel is limited to 100l (or anything that gives a good compromise between power output and technological challenge). NA cars with no turbos, KERS and other gimmicks to have a lower max weight as well.

Edited by Atreiu, 17 December 2012 - 22:29.

[Mandzipop]

Posts deleted, please stay on topic.

[Deluxx]

The singapore track drives me crazy.

[Fastcake]

I really don't like the average F1 drivers hanging around for years. DC, Barrichello, Trulli, de la Rosa, all of them were still driving well past their prime and just taking up seats that new talent or drivers thrown out without a proper chance could be occupying. I also think Barrichello should of retired at the end of 2009, so that he would of finished his career on high rather than in an awful Williams achieving very little.

I don't like how the new engine rules are already getting so much hate, despite the fact we haven't even seen one car on track yet. Just give the racing a chance first.

I probably took too much enjoyment at the all too predictable failure of Dany Bahar's reign at Lotus. He's probably ruined the company after all...

I get rather annoyed when I read opinions saying CVC shouldn't be sucking the money out of the sport, and instead it should go towards the teams. Clearly some of you are forgetting just how many vulture capitalists, broke banks, shady Russian businessmen and associated financial scumbaggery firms own stakes in many of the teams or their owners. What do you think they're doing in the sport, if not sucking money out?

[Disgrace]

I think 20 GPs is too many for one season. 16 or 17 is enough. Any more and individual races feel less special.

Got to agree with this. Towards the end of the last two seasons, I have found myself getting sick of F1 somewhat regardless of racing quality.

[DanardiF1]

Got to agree with this. Towards the end of the last two seasons, I have found myself getting sick of F1 somewhat regardless of racing quality.

I find my problem is that I forget about some races after they've happened because they get lost in the onslaught on upcoming ones, and not because they were poor or any other reason than they just keep coming at you.

[Peat]

I had a scary moment last week. I saw a picture of the 2012 f1 field streaming into Turn 1 at Hockenhiem.

I didn't even realise F1 had gone to Hockenhiem this year.... Yet, according to my diary, i definitely watched it as i had some friends over for it. That has never happened to me before.

Ergo - too may GP's.

- I miss V10's.
- F1/motorsport in general will die on its ar$e in the next 20 years.

[R Soul]

- F1/motorsport in general will die on its ar$e in the next 20 years.

I can see this too, and it's why I want an end, or at least a scaling back, of the cost cutting measures. I'd prefer the sport to go down with its head held high than limp on in its current state. Over time our feelings change, but ever since the V8 rule and the rev limit, engine and gearbox limits (etc) came in, I've found myself wondering why I still watch the races.

Here's another confession: I liked F1 when Schumacher was dominating, even though so many people said he and Ferrari were destroying the sport.

[Haribo]

I don't think that motorsport will die out, but I think it will either regress or become unrecognisable to what it is now. Either, it'll be something like 12 cars in an F1 field, or it'll go almost back to a "run what you brung" type era, where you can turn up at Le Mans with something you've cobbled together and just go for it.

I think that's a mixture of reminiscing and rose-tinted glasses though