68 replies to this topic

[FerrariFanInTexas]

Tombstone, on Mar 4 2011, 14:23, said:

Not read any other posts, but...

Bull****.

If Villeneuve hadn't overdriven he would not have crashed and not have died.

The gross mismanagement of drivers lies squarely at the feet of old man ferrari.

My point was that both drivers had amazingly similar accidents, and in both the drivers were seriously injured (or died in Villenueve's case). It just begs the question of whether there was something wrong with the car that made it more susceptible of being launched, or more dangerous in the case of a crash involving being launched.

Or, as I said in the original post, it was just a run of bad luck.

But in 30+ years of watching F-1, I can't think of a season in which a lead team lost both drivers due to similar accidents.

[Ise]

I always thought the Arrows A9 was something of a dangerous car. Thank heavens nobody crashed it, they'd probably have been in for a rude surprise with a soft chassis holding the car together.

[kosmic33]

Villes Gilleneuve, on Mar 4 2011, 15:41, said:

Forward to today: one terrorist incident in 2001 leads to $72B in annual security spending for 2,300 deaths.

Since 2001, over 400,000 Americans have died in road crashes, but that's deemed an ok way to die. NHTSA budget, < $800M.

1. Thats what happens when you go invading countries that you have no business being in.

2. Having see the standard of driving on american highways, and considering americas population is 307,000,000 or so, this comes as no surprise....

Slightly off topic. Personally, the most dangerous car ever in motorsports in my mind had to be the Group B Lancia S4. Filling the fire extinguishers with Nitrus wasnt exactly the safest idea!

[Andrew Hope]

I'd second that. You'd have to think any car that's had a crash where all that was left of the poor bastards inside it were their bones has to be pretty high on the list of the most dangerous race cars ever.

[cheapracer]

midgrid, on Mar 5 2011, 05:52, said:

The Brabham BT45C "Fan Car", which would suck stones and debris from the surface of the track and spit them out into the paths of pursuing cars.

Radoye, on Mar 5 2011, 06:10, said:

That's actually a myth, deliberately constructed to have the "Fan Cars" banned ASAP since they were simply too dominant.

No it's not a myth at all and the same complaints were leveled at the Chaparal Fan car.

It was a reason for the competition to get it banned though.

BTW, that doesn't make the car dangerous in any way, only for other competitors.

[cheapracer]

kosmic33, on Mar 6 2011, 12:56, said:

Slightly off topic. Personally, the most dangerous car ever in motorsports in my mind had to be the Group B Lancia S4. Filling the fire extinguishers with Nitrus wasnt exactly the safest idea!

andrew., on Mar 6 2011, 13:58, said:

I'd second that. You'd have to think any car that's had a crash where all that was left of the poor bastards inside it were their bones has to be pretty high on the list of the most dangerous race cars ever.

If you guys want to post on sensitive issues Mate then have the decency to research what you are posting about.

Are you aware of how hard Henri's car hit the trees roof first after plumeting over the cliff edge? There is little doubt in any ones mind they were both killed by the impact and the S4's extremely strong cage/spaceframe's roof structure was flattened to door handle level well below the driver's and navigators shoulder height.

Nitros Oxide is not flammable even if they did use it for cheating (Why? There was no engine boost limits anyway)..

There is a certain level of impact that can be substained by humans and cars and once that level has been passed nothing will change the result.

[wingwalker]

Surely not most dangerous car ever, but in recent era one the cars had a werd roll hoop failure at Nurburgring about 10 years ago.. I think it was Sauber, but I'm not sure. That was weird and could have ended tragically very easily.

[johnmhinds]

wingwalker, on Mar 6 2011, 11:52, said:

Surely not most dangerous car ever, but in recent era one the cars had a werd roll hoop failure at Nurburgring about 10 years ago.. I think it was Sauber, but I'm not sure. That was weird and could have ended tragically very easily.

It was Pedro Diniz

[kosmic33]

cheapracer, on Mar 6 2011, 06:38, said:

If you guys want to post on sensitive issues Mate then have the decency to research what you are posting about.

Are you aware of how hard Henri's car hit the trees roof first after plumeting over the cliff edge? There is little doubt in any ones mind they were both killed by the impact and the S4's extremely strong cage/spaceframe's roof structure was flattened to door handle level well below the driver's and navigators shoulder height.

Nitros Oxide is not flammable even if they did use it for cheating (Why? There was no engine boost limits anyway)..

There is a certain level of impact that can be substained by humans and cars and once that level has been passed nothing will change the result.

Nitrous itself is not flammable but its high levels of o2 sure helps everything else burn

The s4's extremely strong cage/spaceframe...... Have you ever seen/sat inside one? Like sitting in a biscuit tin. The fuel tanks were even located under the seats. There was nothing safe at all in these cars.....

[jj2728]

The 1968 Honda RA302. Surtees refused to drive it, Jo Schlesser was called in to drive and 3 laps into the French GP he fatally crashed.

[Amphicar]

stevewf1, on Mar 4 2011, 20:40, said:

According to what I read at the time, his helmet was seen rolling away from the accident scene. Upon impact, his car folded in half and burst into flames. They couldn't put the fire out with conventional means, so they just buried it in the sand - with Courage still in it - and tended to it later.

I remember reading about the car being covered with sand in reports of the race in either Autosport or Motoring News. It sounds callous but bear in mind that you can't extinguish a magnesium fire with water. Burning magnesium reacts violently with water, producing hydrogen, which further fuels the fire. The most effective way to put out a magnesium fire is to exclude the oxygen by smothering it, for example with dry sand. As Zandvoort is built amongst sand dunes, covering the burning wreck with an effective substance that was close to hand, was actually perfectly sensible, especially as Courage was clearly beyond help.

[black magic]

early raised wing cars namely rindts lotus

[stevewf1]

Tombstone, on Mar 4 2011, 18:23, said:

If Villeneuve hadn't overdriven he would not have crashed and not have died.

That's like saying if Villeneuve had never been born...

He was at war with Pironi over what happened at Imola, and Pironi had gone faster than Villeneuve at that point in the session. The cause of Villeneive's accident was a split-second mis-communication with the slowing-down Jochen Mass. Mass had just gone through a left-hand kink with Villenuve fast approaching. Mass knew he was coming and moved to his right (in order to let Villeneuve pass on the left - and be properly set up for the following right-hand corner), while at the same instant, Villeneuve decided to pass Mass on the right. If their cars had been 20 feet farther apart (or closer together) coming into that kink, that accident probably never would have happened.

Edited by stevewf1, 06 March 2011 - 23:59.

[MacLarenV6]

cheapracer, on Mar 6 2011, 01:38, said:

There is a certain level of impact that can be substained by humans and cars and once that level has been passed nothing will change the result.

Maybe for humans but car frames can be made to absorb shock by folding in some parts and not others. This decreases the impact on the driver and I do believe it's used in F1 today.

[Amphicar]

MacLarenV6, on Mar 7 2011, 00:07, said:

Maybe for humans but car frames can be made to absorb shock by folding in some parts and not others. This decreases the impact on the driver and I do believe it's used in F1 today.

Modern F1 cars are constructed mainly from carbon fibre, which is both strong and light (3 times stronger than steel and more than 4 times lighter). Carbon fibre does not bend or fold but dissipates the energy of a crash by disintegrating into powder:

[black magic]

or how bout webbers le mans mercedes sportscar

[kosmic33]

black magic, on Mar 8 2011, 05:10, said:

or how bout webbers le mans mercedes sportscar

He walked away didnt he?

[wingwalker]

kosmic33, on Mar 8 2011, 12:25, said:

He walked away didnt he?

Yes, which was nothing but sheer luck, while a car that flips itself over all by itself is certainly not the safest design ever. Not an F1 car, obviously.

Edited by wingwalker, 09 March 2011 - 00:23.

[Captain Tightpants]

kosmic33, on Mar 8 2011, 22:25, said:

He walked away didnt he?

Any crash you walk away from is a good one. But that doesn't mean it's safe. I believe the problem with the Mercedes was a design fault that make it vulnerable to lifting off. That's not safe in anyone's book.