25 replies to this topic

[SalutGilles]

Cheers to Bira and Christiaan for making this a reality. I look forward to learning a lot from all of you who know more than I do.

And now for a question: If you could get F1 to implement a new or old technology to improve the sport, what would it be?

And, if yo ucould take one thing away, which they currently have, what would that be?

And no posts about slix, because we all want that!

[Rich]

Take away : Any and all aerodynamic bits which cause unsettling turbulence for following cars.

Bring back : Manual gear-boxes and any type of brake system/materials which would increase braking distances significantly.

[Tipha]

Take away: Refueling during the race.

(Less dangerous, helps cars without uber-engines win, increases weight to slow cars down)

Bring back: Tyrrell

(Cos I liked them )

edit: Not really a technology, but still...




[This message has been edited by Tipha (edited 08-09-1999).]

[Pascal]

Take away carbon-fibre brakes:
Though it has been demonstrated that steel discs offer a level of performance actually pretty close to carbon-fibre, consistency might differ over the length of a race. This would allow more differences between cars according to driving styles.

Bring back manual gearboxes:
A few years ago, one of the greatest challenges of the Monaco Grand-Prix was the incredible number of gearchanges a driver had to perform during the race. Not anymore since semi-automatics have been introduced. More generally, the mechanical stress on manual gearboxes is higher, and once again that would reintroduce an other variable to deal with for the driver.

[UPRC]

Don't think for a second I won't be a visitor to this forum cause earlier I was getting all technical, it was freaky....

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[MPH]

Take away * semi-automatic gear box

Bring back * goodyear

[ket]

Remember the advice Schumacher gave to Salo,"...you just drive the car, the pits will tell you what to do, when to push, when to pit...". I think drivers are becoming too dependant on instruction from the pits and that makes boring races. My suggestion is to ban all the telemetry and two way radios. Let the drivers drive with their own judgement and instinct. The tactical decision should be made from the driver seat and not from the pits. The recent exciting races are a result of the team strategies and tactics are being disrupted by rain, accidents and etc and the drivers have to take charge of the situation themselves.

[narhuit]

SG - This is not fair. Only one thing to get rid of and one to bring [back]. How can I choose? Do I repeat has been said in previous posts like get rid of refuelings and semi-automatic gear-boxes or do I go for something less important? Sigh...
Get rid of the pace car.
Bring fair play back (what I mean here is (for those who were lucky enough to see it) what happened for instance at Dijon 79 would certainly result in a crash at the first turn nowadays (although I must admit there has been a significant improvement this year))!

[Christiaan]

All credit is to Bira for this new forum.

With regard to technology, I'd say take away Adrian Newey

but seriously, aside from slicks I am content with the rules. Its only the financial and manegerial aspects that make some teams much stronger than others. For example, Minardi and Jordan have been at it for a while, but Eddie Jordans managerial skills have allowed him to grow much faster than Minardi.

I do think however that if they got away with that maximum fuel tank capacity rule then they would bring in the possibility for zero stop strategies(if the tyres would allow it)

What if Max said that the minimum weight of the car should be say 650kg's including a full tank then that would make fueling and starting strategies even more complex. That might have good effects because the dry weight of the car will not be such an issue. For example, the Stewart is not the most powerful engine, but is the lightest, and the Mercedes is the 2nd lightest and apparently 2nd most powerful next to Peogot, and Prost apparently have the heaviest engine. If the Prost was to have virtually enough fuel on board for say 20 laps at say Monaco then at the start it could have the bullet acceleration of the Mac, and a faster top speed. Prost would also have to use a 3 stop strategy , but that makes for more complexity which ultimately can't be a bad thing. Of course it opens the window for more pit stop overtaking.
what do you all think of this?

[Zoe]

Difficult to limit on a single item. Well, let's see:

Take away: Either (a) engine throttle mapping (I'm convinced that is just a different form of traction control), (b) Active differentials (same as a), © Live Telemetry (gives the team in the pits total control over the car and race). If I'd have to choose one, I'd say ©, since the first ones are close to impossible to match.

Introduce: I'll take the flak, but what about active suspension? Road cars start having one, so why not take the technical challenge?

Zoe

[Christiaan]

Well Zoe, I think active suspension is even closer to traction control than engine mapping

[SlowDrivr]

I'd be tempted to get rid of pitting, but it is sometimes exciting. I don't like it when you don't know who's really in 1st because of different pitting strategies. Having to make the tires run the whole race would make them much harder which would slow them down (which the FIA wants), and also should make fewer marbles which may help passing in some areas.

I'd think the drivers wouldn't like it, but they're paid so much, who cares what they think! Call me Max I guess neither would the pit workers who might not have a job anymore.

I'd like the turbo's to come back, just because it's amazing how much power can come out of such a small engine.

[Achim Kuhl]

Hi!

I've read many reports that Monaco produced bloody hands and i don't think it's great to have this torture back. So, no manual gear shift. Turbo-engines where a hell to drive. Very small useable band of reps and slightly overreped instant blow up. Too expensive.

Slicks should be back and aerodynamics reduced. Something suported by many drivers. Free choice of tyre-composition everytime in the race-weekend including two timed sessions for starting positions.

I disagree that drivers should endure any stress or discomfort cause they are well paid. Motivated persons are more fun to watch. This aren't the Roman waggon races. And as can be seen again this season, it's a little bit more dangerous than my office desk.

Achim

[Zoe]

Christiaan,

sorry for my late reply but i HAD to watch the eclipse yesterday!

Why do you think is active suspension closer to traction control than engine mapping? Agreed, it influences the cars behaviour a lot (as does tc), but I don't see the connection. With TC a driver can floor the throttle even in the corner, so no big deal in car control here, whereas active suspension doesn't support those driving "techniques".

Zoe

[Christiaan]

well Zoe, The eclipse was something else heh

I think that active suspension affects the cars handling more than engine mapping. It also allows the driver much much higher cornering speeds. This is because of two things-
-active suspension like that in the BMW 540i stiffens the inside suspension when turning and thus allows the driver to make sharper coners without skidding.
-bumps on the road would be virtually levelled by active suspension. This would stop the cars from jumping about and wobbling all over the show and in so doing , increase the TRACTION.

Engine mapping would fundamentaly change the torque/power charactoristics of the car during a race. This would make the engine more driveable but does nothing for its stability. Traction control and Active suspension are all aimed at stability.

[Megatron]

Allow:

3.3 litre turbo charged engines with no boost limit.

any braking systems teams want to run.

allow any areo devics the teams want to run.

all any undertray design they want to run.

slick tires.

allow any electronic aids that teams want to run.

any number of cylinders.

allow fans on the back of the car.

allow four wheel drive.

allow more than four tires.

anything I forgot?

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Death through Tyranny - Megatron

[Zoe]

Well, well.....

You might have a point here; anyway let me explain my thoughts: Imagine its wet, you have a RWD car with a lots of hp and ride a corner. You have to be very sensitive with the steering AND throttle (a bit too much power, and off she goes). This part is highly independent from the suspension, but a working traction control would allow you to simply floor the throttle and get maximum acceleration without bothering at all.

Now, an engine mapping that relates torque output to throttle pedal position and possible takes into consideration the steering wheel position and speed, has inputs from the differential can effectively control the power that the engine delivers, thus basically being a form of traction control.

Concerning suspension: I know from my old Supra that a good suspension can work wonders (when a damper nearly broke, it behaved completely different), but....

Active suspension can give you higher cornering speeds, higher straight line speed and magic stuff like that, but personally I doubt that it represents a driver aid like certain engine electronics do.

Zoe

[SlowDrivr]

Megatron- No minimum weight.

Who could drive such a beast? I'd be a thrill to watch though... 300mph+ !

[MrAerodynamicist]

Well with my name I'd though I'd ought to post something but then I realised that I'd get found out for the fraud that I am

[Megatron]

I forgot about minimum weight.



If I were cruel, I would also include the fowlowing:

Ban selt belts.

Drivers can only wear bicycle helments.

Drivers must drive with tape over one eye.

On hot days, cars should be equiped with on board heaters.

Drivers have to change thier own tires.

Allow one arm drivers, but make them use stick shifters.

Seats should been lined with spikes so the driver can not get comfortable.

Gee, make them earn their money.

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Death through Tyranny - Megatron

[Christiaan]

Zoe,

While it is true that engine mapping might have a bigger impact that active suspension, I think that a driver like Mika would shave at least 1 second off his Monaco lap record with active suspension. Thats why FIA don't like it.

[Martin]

What about bringing back actually DRINKING the champagne on the podium. All that lovely bubbly going to waste is criminal.

Your man with a thirst

hic

Martin

[Keith Sawatsky]

Take Away: Car to Pit radio communications. Make the driver use his brain rather than relying on when to be told to do things.

[engin]

hi all

christiaan congratulations for the new forum ihave been watching it for weeks and you really doinng a very good job here kep it up and good luck .

thanx

[Ickster]

Ban: all electroic aids, including engine mapping, semi-autos, telemetry, radio communication, and heck, electronic engine management in general.

Bring back: any and all mechanical devices - turbos, slicks, ground effects, four-wheel drive, etc.

Get the computers out of the equation as much as possible. They allow too much of the race to be planned. Auto racing should be spontaneous and exciting.

[Yelnats]

I have nothing against automatic shifters as I think manual shifting became impractical when 7 speed transmisions appeared. Six speeds were a big problem at Monaco as drivers had to steer with one hand for about 25% of the circuit due to all the up and downshifts and this is another factor that effected saftey and control.

I don't like multiple pit stops and I think that those who find these exciting should consider how many good on tracks battles are spoiled because a driver prefers to attempt a pass in the pits rather than on the track.

If teams were limited to 9 tires per race (the extra for flats) they would have to use a one stop stratagy and tire conservation would become part of racing again. This would increase passing because cars would run on different speeds due to different stratagies and driver tire consevation skills. At the same time fuel stops would be reduced because a stop for fuel without getting new tires would be prohibitivly penalizing.