Yes I noticed that as well. Much light being made of sometimes clearly lethal accidents, and interest only in the cars, and not in the welfare of the people who were in them! Odd. That is a great forum though, with some unique material for the patient digger.
That photograph was the reason why I said "landscape does not look familiar" earlier. Linkeroever is very flat, but the landscape in the background seems hilly. It would be the kind of landscape you would expect at Spa, not here though.
1938 Antwerp Grand Prix
Started by
david venables
, May 11 2012 11:33
67 replies to this topic
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#52
Elwing
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Posted 16 May 2012 - 15:44
Today I went to the city library to look up more information about this, and it was an enjoyable experience, not in the least because of the location. It was one of those things that I have always wanted to do, and I had a nice subject to search for. I went trough the microfilm files of the local catholic newspaper, Gazet van Antwerpen, of may, 1938, 1939 and 1954. I got some 18 a3 sized pages of newspaper articles and I'm not sure how to put this on the net, especially because all of it is in Dutch, and only part of it is relevant. There are some photos, but these are of very poor quality.
The photo archives of the GVA went to a different archive, and I may look into that some other day.
Okay, first thing: this was the circuit.
In this you can see the river Scheld at the top and right, and on the right bank the city of Antwerp proper. There are two tunnels and a ferry across the river. The street circuit of the "Antwerp International Auto course" is indicated with arrows, and there are also the locations of parkings, grand stands (tribune) press tribune (pers) and the entrance points of the grand stands, and standing room places around the rest of the circuit (toegang tot staanplaatsen).
It was quite a big deal. The organization costs were around 40.000 Belgian francs, and 100.000 visitors were expected. Belgian railways arranged for extra trains. The circuit was 6.005 kms, and the race was 80 laps, which gave a total of 504.42 kms.
The newspaper stresses that the safety of the audience is assured by barriers of hay bales at all the corners(
)
Tickets for the grand stands cost between 15 and 50 francs, and standing room tickets cost 5 francs a piece.
About the 1938 edition, and the 1950 cm2 Aston-Martin race. no 42 driven by F. E. Clifford - it is listed in the entry list, and it is mentioned that mr. Clifford arrived in the city, and took lodging in one of the best hotels in town.
About the start of the race, the GVA writes this: "The Bugatti of Miller makes an ailing start, and the Aston Martin of Clifton just keeps standing"... And after that there is no mention of Clifton as far as I can find. So that should answer the question of what happened to him.
the GVA repeatedly mentions the attractive white "B. M. W." cars of the German NSKK team, which did so well in the Mille Miglia. There are some nice pictures, but the quality is too poor to post.
Okay, enough for now, maybe more about this later:)
*edit: location of image.
The photo archives of the GVA went to a different archive, and I may look into that some other day.
Okay, first thing: this was the circuit.
In this you can see the river Scheld at the top and right, and on the right bank the city of Antwerp proper. There are two tunnels and a ferry across the river. The street circuit of the "Antwerp International Auto course" is indicated with arrows, and there are also the locations of parkings, grand stands (tribune) press tribune (pers) and the entrance points of the grand stands, and standing room places around the rest of the circuit (toegang tot staanplaatsen).
It was quite a big deal. The organization costs were around 40.000 Belgian francs, and 100.000 visitors were expected. Belgian railways arranged for extra trains. The circuit was 6.005 kms, and the race was 80 laps, which gave a total of 504.42 kms.
The newspaper stresses that the safety of the audience is assured by barriers of hay bales at all the corners(
)Tickets for the grand stands cost between 15 and 50 francs, and standing room tickets cost 5 francs a piece.
About the 1938 edition, and the 1950 cm2 Aston-Martin race. no 42 driven by F. E. Clifford - it is listed in the entry list, and it is mentioned that mr. Clifford arrived in the city, and took lodging in one of the best hotels in town.
About the start of the race, the GVA writes this: "The Bugatti of Miller makes an ailing start, and the Aston Martin of Clifton just keeps standing"... And after that there is no mention of Clifton as far as I can find. So that should answer the question of what happened to him.
the GVA repeatedly mentions the attractive white "B. M. W." cars of the German NSKK team, which did so well in the Mille Miglia. There are some nice pictures, but the quality is too poor to post.
Okay, enough for now, maybe more about this later:)
*edit: location of image.
Edited by Elwing, 18 May 2012 - 19:13.
#53
Geoff E
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Posted 16 May 2012 - 15:54
The circuit was 6.005 kms, and the race was 80 laps, which gave a total of 504.42 kms
I'm afraid at least one of these numbers isn't correct.
#54
Elwing
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Posted 16 May 2012 - 16:06
Heh yeah, somebody didn't do their maths, heh!I'm afraid at least one of these numbers isn't correct.
#55
David McKinney
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Posted 16 May 2012 - 16:08
6.305 would be OK though
#56
Vitesse2
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Posted 16 May 2012 - 17:53
QED!You may find more than you expect! Local newspapers often really went to town (pardon the pun!) on races like this and sometimes provide better reports than the specialist magazines.
6.005km does work for 84 laps, the figure normally quoted.
#57
Rob Semmeling
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Posted 17 May 2012 - 07:18
6.005 km it is then
Good stuff, Elwing. I'd be interested in articles on the 1954 Formula 3 race, even if that brings us off-topic a little (which is sort of a TNF tradition, anyway...).
Good stuff, Elwing. I'd be interested in articles on the 1954 Formula 3 race, even if that brings us off-topic a little (which is sort of a TNF tradition, anyway...).
#58
Elwing
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Posted 17 May 2012 - 13:48
There was a preview and a review of the 1954 race.
(preview)
This does not appear to have been a major event, and the newspaper sounds a bit negative about the whole motorsports thing in the preview. The outbreak of the second world war ended the brief run of major races on Linkeroever, and after that financial difficulties, the lack of a local motor industry and successful local drivers slowed down the revival.
The GZA complains that most of the other smaller races in recent years were amateurishly organized without involvement of the national motorsports organizations, and only intended to earn the organizers money, and this eroded the enthusiasm of the public. And because of this, formula 3 appeared to have no future in Belgium.
The 1954 formula 3 race on Linkeroever was professionally organized with official backing, and the newspaper hopes it will show "sport, and no sensation".
(review)
The race was won by somebody by the name of Borremans in a perfectly regular fashion, and the race was satisfactory both in organization and low number of accidents. Technical problems and the absence of John Claes are mentioned as a downside. Judging from the names of the entrants, most were local heroes. There were a good number of visitors, but I can only assume the success was not sufficient to repeat the event.
(preview)
This does not appear to have been a major event, and the newspaper sounds a bit negative about the whole motorsports thing in the preview. The outbreak of the second world war ended the brief run of major races on Linkeroever, and after that financial difficulties, the lack of a local motor industry and successful local drivers slowed down the revival.
The GZA complains that most of the other smaller races in recent years were amateurishly organized without involvement of the national motorsports organizations, and only intended to earn the organizers money, and this eroded the enthusiasm of the public. And because of this, formula 3 appeared to have no future in Belgium.
The 1954 formula 3 race on Linkeroever was professionally organized with official backing, and the newspaper hopes it will show "sport, and no sensation".
(review)
The race was won by somebody by the name of Borremans in a perfectly regular fashion, and the race was satisfactory both in organization and low number of accidents. Technical problems and the absence of John Claes are mentioned as a downside. Judging from the names of the entrants, most were local heroes. There were a good number of visitors, but I can only assume the success was not sufficient to repeat the event.
#59
Elwing
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Posted 17 May 2012 - 14:34
This photograph of Farina and a lovely 1930's advertisement I cannot keep from you
#61
VDP
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Posted 18 May 2012 - 09:00
Any entry list in the small class for 1938 and by chance the first name of Reano ??
#62
Elwing
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Posted 18 May 2012 - 14:03
This is the 1938 entry list:
Also, because we finally got some decent weather today, I hit the road and found that one little section of the road circuit that was given back to nature. It was surprisingly hard to get to. All the rest I did not photograph, as Google did a better job than I ever will be able to.
Looks peaceful, but with all the heavy traffic in the background it was easy to image the Alfa Romeos, Bugatti's and those newfangled "B. M. W."'s tearing up the track here. The poor nightingale in residence was screaming his lungs out.
And also, also, I got creative with that ad I showed earlier. I think I will have this printed on a t-shirt as a memento of an enjoyable wild goose chase for information.
Also, because we finally got some decent weather today, I hit the road and found that one little section of the road circuit that was given back to nature. It was surprisingly hard to get to. All the rest I did not photograph, as Google did a better job than I ever will be able to.
Looks peaceful, but with all the heavy traffic in the background it was easy to image the Alfa Romeos, Bugatti's and those newfangled "B. M. W."'s tearing up the track here. The poor nightingale in residence was screaming his lungs out.
And also, also, I got creative with that ad I showed earlier. I think I will have this printed on a t-shirt as a memento of an enjoyable wild goose chase for information.
#63
Terry Walker
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Posted 18 May 2012 - 16:01
Thank you Elwing.
I naturally toured the track on Google but of course this stretch was not covered. I wonder how old the trees are. Probably a lot younger than the 1930s, by the look of them; replacements perhaps for the ones that were there in 1938. I am always fascinated by old circuits. I was recently reading a book by Malcolm Campbell, a novel, which refers to the Lasarte circuit, which I'd never heard of. It turned out to be the pre-war San Sebastian circuit, which I had indeed heard of.
Those long straights with trees down both sides always remind me just how very dangerous those old road circuits were. Today's sterile "playmats" aren't in the same league.
I naturally toured the track on Google but of course this stretch was not covered. I wonder how old the trees are. Probably a lot younger than the 1930s, by the look of them; replacements perhaps for the ones that were there in 1938. I am always fascinated by old circuits. I was recently reading a book by Malcolm Campbell, a novel, which refers to the Lasarte circuit, which I'd never heard of. It turned out to be the pre-war San Sebastian circuit, which I had indeed heard of.
Those long straights with trees down both sides always remind me just how very dangerous those old road circuits were. Today's sterile "playmats" aren't in the same league.
#64
VDP
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Posted 18 May 2012 - 16:56
Thanks Elwing
Number 16 van Lennep ?? family of the 2 brothers
Correction for Cornet, took part on the race with an old 6C 1750 in place of a 8c 2300
Number 16 van Lennep ?? family of the 2 brothers
Correction for Cornet, took part on the race with an old 6C 1750 in place of a 8c 2300
#65
Elwing
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Posted 18 May 2012 - 18:38
These are plane trees, and they were of impressive size, and they look like they could be old enough (these can live up to 300 years). The whole Linkeroever plan was rolled out in the 1920's and 30's, and there has not been a reason to replace the trees. I reckon this stretch of road was given back to nature when the R1 access was built. The R1 plan was approved in 1958, and the trees must have been mature and valuable enough by that time to be left untouched.
As for Marnix van Lennep, he is mentioned with his noble title (jonkheer, esquire). Gijs van Lennep ( Jonkheer Gijsbert van Lennep) has the same title. It seems likely they are related, but I can't give you the exact facts on that.
As for Marnix van Lennep, he is mentioned with his noble title (jonkheer, esquire). Gijs van Lennep ( Jonkheer Gijsbert van Lennep) has the same title. It seems likely they are related, but I can't give you the exact facts on that.
#67
AntoineP
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Posted 24 July 2023 - 20:22
Antoine posts here as 'Pils1989':
http://forums.autosp...?showuser=11020
although he hasn't checked in since March. His email address in the above profile is:
swisscow@hotmail.com
That address is long gone. Shared the AM picture on the prewar Aston Martin FB group tonight.
Didn't I posted the pictures on TNF 20 years ago? I believe someone related to one of the BMW drivers posted in it.
Edited by AntoineP, 24 July 2023 - 20:34.
#68
Porsche718
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Posted 25 July 2023 - 09:23
According to my information the ex Ecurie Bleu Delahaye registration number 8158RK9 with centre spotlight hole hit the tree Spa 1938
This is correct. The car Snow raced at Antwerp in 1938 was 6047RK4 and Tremoulet raced 8158RK9 according to the international Delahaye expert Andre Vaucourt.
So it must be noted that Snow's 6074RK4 and 8158RK9 raced at this same event.
Opens a slight "can of worms" regarding the Ian Polson/Peter Muller "ex-Australia" car doesn't it?
Edited by Porsche718, 25 July 2023 - 10:17.
