1038 replies to this topic

[D.M.N.]

Kerch, on Jun 11 2012, 00:14, said:

What a grumpy interview with the BBC.

Just watched it myself: http://t.co/zepbr8QJ

Not sure whether he was annoyed or what.

[InvertedLift]

gowebber, on Jun 11 2012, 23:11, said:

Oh dear *double face palm*. It was a poor effort was it now??? I suppose its Mark's fault he was slow for 10 or so laps because of the engine issue, or he was poor because he got a crappy second pitstop call that put him behind cars that were faster than the RB8 on the straights. Mark's pace was good however if you looked at the evidence you would realise he was not able to show the RB8's true potential at Canada and move up the order.

That's every car Red Bull are ever going to be racing.

[Brother Fox]

Is there any way they are not going to be spanked at Monza?

[Zippel]

Brother Fox, on Jun 12 2012, 11:30, said:

Is there any way they are not going to be spanked at Monza?

Puncture a few holes in the chassis with a pick axe. Speed holes make the car go faster.

[Brother Fox]

Speed holes ay?

[zztopless1]

Brother Fox, on Jun 12 2012, 12:00, said:

Is there any way they are not going to be spanked at Monza?

Seb dominated the race and qualifying last year with the slowest top speed by same margin (even to Webber). Then again, at least Monza has some fast corners to get away (if Red Bull do have a downforce advantage this year)

I wish someone in the know would write an article about why Red Bull choose short gearings, even more so this year. Last year at Canada they were somewhere in the middle with regards to top speed, yet this year they were last.

[FPV GTHO]

Short gearing was just part of their strategy. Qualy pace over race pace, run away at the start and dont let them in the DRS zone.

[mymemoryfails]

zztopless1, on Jun 12 2012, 18:17, said:

Seb dominated the race and qualifying last year with the slowest top speed by same margin (even to Webber). Then again, at least Monza has some fast corners to get away (if Red Bull do have a downforce advantage this year)

I wish someone in the know would write an article about why Red Bull choose short gearings, even more so this year. Last year at Canada they were somewhere in the middle with regards to top speed, yet this year they were last.

Well I'm not clever enough to write an article, but I'll give you a couple of thoughts:

I too was surprised by how Sebastian achieved pole and win at Monza 2011 with short gearing. But then when you think about it.....

The cars must spend more time accelerating than at top speed, so there is a gain in those situations.
Even though the RB has lower top speed, it probably gets there quicker by higher corner speed combined with better acceleration because of short gearing.
RB obviously sacrifice top speed for cornering, and there are still some mighty corners at Monza
Having a lower top speed also has the advantages of less strains on braking system.
Also all through 2011 I believe Seb was the master of full track drs - this helped him in claiming pole.


I think Montreal (along with other races) show how the RB approach will be stretched to breaking perhaps.

What is different this year, is that the field is very competitive , much more than any other recent year. The approach of running off, creating a gap, then dropping into a space in the midfield, and pretty much having clear air for most of the race is much harder to do in 2012. There are so many more competitors closer to the front. The one-stoppers are a trap to avoid compromising your race, and other team strategists seem to be taking a variety of risks and calls, making it harder "to beat them all".

And teams don't after 7 races have mastery of their tyre situations.

So I can't imagine Seb repeating 2011 Monza exactly..... but I think he'll be more exposed to the stuff Webber had to battle in 2011 of being in TRAFFIC with a car that is vulnerable when the road straightens.

Having said that, Seb is surely capable of proving me wrong, and I think his two wins Monza have to rate amongst his finest!

mymemoryfails

[Black Widow]

Oh, something above just led me back to this........

http://www.formula1....10/5/10856.html

If you are not a Webber fan you may not understand.....

Quote

Q: (Frederic Ferret – L’Equipe) Mark, what were your thoughts between getting back on the track and the finishing line? And have you thought of Japan 2007, behind the safety car and Lewis? There was something between Vettel and you behind the safety car in Japan.
MW: Ah, Fuji. Yeah, that was different, obviously. That was well-documented at the time. We crashed into each other. No, I didn’t think of Fuji at all. I was obviously thinking, during the last part of the race, how unfortunate it was that both of us made contact.

Excuse me, I have to go and change my pants.

[Sypher]

Hey long time stalker, rare poster..

Just been going through Marks site for ideas on his helmet competition ( https://www.facebook...213393335439316 ) and noticed this in regards to him fitting in well at Maranello next year. Not sure if this has been said but throwing it out there.

FAVOURITE COUNTRY
ON: Australia. It’s the best race of the year.
OFF: Italy. The Dolomites are stunning, the food is great, I just love that place.

(On track/Off track)

http://www.markwebber.com/my-story/

I'm not saying that he is going but reading this I think that he wouldn't be as resistant of leaving sunny England as I originally thought.

[HoldenRT]

30 mins before race start, the houses internet goes out (for 5 hours).. sigh..

First race I've watched without live timing for 5+ years, I don't recommend it. So it was nice to read your thoughts dissecting Mark's race, especially lap time wise.. as trying to follow what is going on without it is excruciatingly painful. Especially during commercials. Never got the impression that Mark's laptimes were strong at any point either, except for that one part where he set fastest lap.

He seemed a bit slow to me especially considering the high rate of degredation he seemed to have (or both RBR cars seemed to have).

The moral of the story, no live timing sucks. Sort of like watching a basketball or soccer game where the camera is zoomed in on one or two players only.

[joshb]

HoldenRT, on Jun 13 2012, 16:55, said:

30 mins before race start, the houses internet goes out (for 5 hours).. sigh..

First race I've watched without live timing for 5+ years, I don't recommend it. So it was nice to read your thoughts dissecting Mark's race, especially lap time wise.. as trying to follow what is going on without it is excruciatingly painful. Especially during commercials. Never got the impression that Mark's laptimes were strong at any point either, except for that one part where he set fastest lap.

He seemed a bit slow to me especially considering the high rate of degredation he seemed to have (or both RBR cars seemed to have).

The moral of the story, no live timing sucks. Sort of like watching a basketball or soccer game where the camera is zoomed in on one or two players only.

Even though F1 has got better at that with the thing along the bottom of the screen constantly updating gaps at every 200m loop or so. Think that came in (with just the sector by sector updates) at Monza 2010 and then the live loops last year sometime.
I find that a really useful graphic, but yeah, I like the live timing just to get anxious if I see a bad sector from Seb or relaxed if he's on a good lap!

[zztopless1]

mymemoryfails, on Jun 12 2012, 18:48, said:

Well I'm not clever enough to write an article, but I'll give you a couple of thoughts:

I too was surprised by how Sebastian achieved pole and win at Monza 2011 with short gearing. But then when you think about it.....

The cars must spend more time accelerating than at top speed, so there is a gain in those situations.
Even though the RB has lower top speed, it probably gets there quicker by higher corner speed combined with better acceleration because of short gearing.
RB obviously sacrifice top speed for cornering, and there are still some mighty corners at Monza
Having a lower top speed also has the advantages of less strains on braking system.
Also all through 2011 I believe Seb was the master of full track drs - this helped him in claiming pole.


I think Montreal (along with other races) show how the RB approach will be stretched to breaking perhaps.

What is different this year, is that the field is very competitive , much more than any other recent year. The approach of running off, creating a gap, then dropping into a space in the midfield, and pretty much having clear air for most of the race is much harder to do in 2012. There are so many more competitors closer to the front. The one-stoppers are a trap to avoid compromising your race, and other team strategists seem to be taking a variety of risks and calls, making it harder "to beat them all".

And teams don't after 7 races have mastery of their tyre situations.

So I can't imagine Seb repeating 2011 Monza exactly..... but I think he'll be more exposed to the stuff Webber had to battle in 2011 of being in TRAFFIC with a car that is vulnerable when the road straightens.

Having said that, Seb is surely capable of proving me wrong, and I think his two wins Monza have to rate amongst his finest!

mymemoryfails

Thanks for that, your thoughts about total time at vmax (getting there quicker) vs higher top speed were exactly what I was thinking. Lower stress on the brakes is something I hadn't thought of.

The strangest thing for me though was that last year at Canada, is was one of the few tracks where Red Bull weren't near the bottom in the Qualifying speed trap. I wonder what made them reconsider when Seb was so fast last year (would have won without the last lap mistake). Can't help but think it's due to the loss of the efficient downforce provided by the EBD means they can't just take wing off and still have as much downforce as other cars with higher wing angles.

[DILLIGAF]

gowebber, on Jun 11 2012, 23:11, said:

Oh dear *double face palm*. It was a poor effort was it now??? I suppose its Mark's fault he was slow for 10 or so laps because of the engine issue, or he was poor because he got a crappy second pitstop call that put him behind cars that were faster than the RB8 on the straights. Mark's pace was good however if you looked at the evidence you would realise he was not able to show the RB8's true potential at Canada and move up the order.

Well said.

[Callahan]

Sypher, on Jun 13 2012, 23:14, said:

Hey long time stalker, rare poster..

Just been going through Marks site for ideas on his helmet competition ( https://www.facebook...213393335439316 ) and noticed this in regards to him fitting in well at Maranello next year. Not sure if this has been said but throwing it out there.

FAVOURITE COUNTRY
ON: Australia. It’s the best race of the year.
OFF: Italy. The Dolomites are stunning, the food is great, I just love that place.

(On track/Off track)

http://www.markwebber.com/my-story/

I'm not saying that he is going but reading this I think that he wouldn't be as resistant of leaving sunny England as I originally thought.

interesting

[goingthedistance]

I wouldn't get too excited. There are reports today that Webber has said a categorical no when asked if there was any truth to the Ferrari link. At the same time Marko has come out and made noises to the effect that Mark may be at RBR next year. So it looks like the Webber to Ferrari press was just the usual salary boosting talk pre another RBR extension. Never say never though I guess.

As someone in the paddock supposedly said in Montreal it looks like when the music stops the usual suspects will be in the same place.

[Callahan]

goingthedistance, on Jun 14 2012, 20:34, said:

I wouldn't get too excited. There are reports today that Webber has said a categorical no when asked if there was any truth to the Ferrari link. At the same time Marko has come out and made noises to the effect that Mark may be at RBR next year. So it looks like the Webber to Ferrari press was just the usual salary boosting talk pre another RBR extension. Never say never though I guess.

As someone in the paddock supposedly said in Montreal it looks like when the music stops the usual suspects will be in the same place.

not interesting :-)

[GreenMachine]

goingthedistance, on Jun 14 2012, 20:34, said:

I wouldn't get too excited. There are reports today that Webber has said a categorical no when asked if there was any truth to the Ferrari link.

Link?

If this one is anything like the one earlier in the year, you could drive an F1 transporter though the holes in it

[goingthedistance]

Quote

When asked specifically if the Ferrari rumours are true, the 35-year-old told O Estado recently: “No.

Dr Helmut Marko, who is Red Bull team owner Dietrich Mateschitz’s right-hand man on F1 matters, hinted that Webber is set to be retained.

“He has indicated to us that he has the necessary motivation and wants to keep going,” the Austrian told Sport Bild.

“We know where we stand with him, and he knows where he stands with us.”

http://www.yallaf1.c...-red-bull-deal/

[slideways]

Callahan, on Jun 14 2012, 20:13, said:

not interesting :-)

Would you prefer Ferrari over RBR for 13? A resigning at RBR is pretty interesting to me.

[GreenMachine]

goingthedistance, on Jun 15 2012, 01:15, said:

http://www.yallaf1.c...-red-bull-deal/

Thanks GTD.

I am surprised that Mark would rule out Ferrari before he has signed with RB, to the point that I wonder if he has been quoted correctly. Perhaps he has agreed to stay with RB, but it seems to be unusually early given what I remember of the pattern of previous years ... and killing the Ferrari rumours would not help him squeeze a bit extra out of RB.

[v@sh]

I don't think he will rule them out, what he says to media is one thing and what happens behind is another especially when it comes to contract negotiations. All it will do is help quieten down the rumours by categorically denying it. As with Tony Dodgin's article the rumour persisted in Canada even though he tried to wave it off in Spain.

I will wait until August or wait till Monza is Ferrari announce anything. Why would drivers leave things open or admit to possible moves especially under their current employer if they still have a chance to win the WDC. All the support would head to the other side of the garage - not that there isn't a lot on that side already. Personally, if the Ferrari drive doesn't go through (as per a previous post in this thread), then he will stay with RBR IMO.

[Black Widow]

v@sh, on Jun 14 2012, 18:43, said:

I don't think he will rule them out, what he says to media is one thing and what happens behind is another especially when it comes to contract negotiations. All it will do is help quieten down the rumours by categorically denying it. As with Tony Dodgin's article the rumour persisted in Canada even though he tried to wave it off in Spain.

I will wait until August or wait till Monza is Ferrari announce anything. Why would drivers leave things open or admit to possible moves especially under their current employer if they still have a chance to win the WDC. All the support would head to the other side of the garage - not that there isn't a lot on that side already. Personally, if the Ferrari drive doesn't go through (as per a previous post in this thread), then he will stay with RBR IMO.

I totally agree with what you said but would also like to add that if there was already some type of deal (and I don't know if there is or isn't), I don't think either Webber or Ferrari would want to acknowledge it at this point of time simply out of respect for Massa.

[karne]

Black Widow, on Jun 15 2012, 09:59, said:

I totally agree with what you said but would also like to add that if there was already some type of deal (and I don't know if there is or isn't), I don't think either Webber or Ferrari would want to acknowledge it at this point of time simply out of respect for Massa.

Remember, Fernando wasn't going to Ferrari either. Ferrari categorically denied they were even talking to him.

[Callahan]

slideways, on Jun 15 2012, 01:18, said:

Would you prefer Ferrari over RBR for 13? A resigning at RBR is pretty interesting to me.

Well mate, since you asked. The most logical choice is to stay at RB. The car continues to win races despite continuous rule and tyre changes to keep everyone close. Dietrich Mateschitz is one of his biggest supporters and I think the respect is mutual. He even called him a man of steel when referring to his fitness levels. The engineers and factory boffins love him because he is just one of the boys and down to earth. As for Ferrari, I would love to see him sign a 2 year deal but my gut feeling is that it would be a difficult transition. The reason's have been discussed on here ad nauseum so no need to elaborate. I think it's just the aura that comes with the scarlet cars effects drivers and fans in equal measure. Bottom line, so long as he keeps driving and winning and staying competitive, I'll be a happy man.

[slideways]

Yeah while I would love him to go to Ferrari I think it's a better career move to stay with Red Bull.

[goingthedistance]

GreenMachine, on Jun 14 2012, 23:25, said:

Thanks GTD.

I am surprised that Mark would rule out Ferrari before he has signed with RB, to the point that I wonder if he has been quoted correctly. Perhaps he has agreed to stay with RB, but it seems to be unusually early given what I remember of the pattern of previous years ... and killing the Ferrari rumours would not help him squeeze a bit extra out of RB.

Yeah I know, I take it with a grain of salt.

But it is possible his negotiations with RBR are near finalised and he can be honest, too. Or maybe he's going to Ferrari and he wants RBR to think he's sticking around as per usual so his chances of having a shot at the WDC remain intact.

Lots of rumours Renault (sorry Lotus) are unhappy with Kimi too, we know Mark knocked them back last year. Wonder if he might consider a seat there?

[GhostR]

I'm beginning to wonder about Ferrari vs RBR for next year, in regards to which car a top driver would rather be in.

RBR - There's obviously the Newey factor, and a now multi-year proven ability to run at the front. They have, however, fallen back into the field quite a lot this year and the clear weakness they've had throughout their dominant years - top speed on the straights - has now become something other teams can exploit to beat them. The question I'd be posing myself, if I were a driver, would be "is 2012 just a blip, or will this be repeated for 2013?". And then I'd ask myself "Can Newey hit the ground running again with the new rules due soon?"

Ferrari - Testing went horrendously badly. They started the season with a clearly weak car. They've looked vulnerable. But here we are 7 races into the season and Fernando is just 2 points adrift. And the car is starting to come good, and showing signs of being more consistent than others around them. At this point, given where they started in testing, I'd be inclined to say they're winning the development war right now. If the season continues as it has started, Fernando will be a strong shout for WDC. Questions to ask "Have they just lucked into it, or have they worked through in a way that will help them prevent a similar off-season disaster for 2013?"

I dunno, but for me it's in the balance. And for the moment, if I was Mark and looking for 2 more years before retirement ... a 2 year Ferrari offer would look very, very attractive. I'd have the current Ferrari technical department and 'car-sortedness / consistency' just edging out RBR as things stand right now. So it'd come down to Alonso vs Vettel as team mate, and team politics considerations.

[sanjiro]

GhostR, on Jun 15 2012, 11:45, said:

I'm beginning to wonder about Ferrari vs RBR for next year, in regards to which car a top driver would rather be in.

RBR - There's obviously the Newey factor, and a now multi-year proven ability to run at the front. They have, however, fallen back into the field quite a lot this year and the clear weakness they've had throughout their dominant years - top speed on the straights - has now become something other teams can exploit to beat them. The question I'd be posing myself, if I were a driver, would be "is 2012 just a blip, or will this be repeated for 2013?". And then I'd ask myself "Can Newey hit the ground running again with the new rules due soon?"

Ferrari - Testing went horrendously badly. They started the season with a clearly weak car. They've looked vulnerable. But here we are 7 races into the season and Fernando is just 2 points adrift. And the car is starting to come good, and showing signs of being more consistent than others around them. At this point, given where they started in testing, I'd be inclined to say they're winning the development war right now. If the season continues as it has started, Fernando will be a strong shout for WDC. Questions to ask "Have they just lucked into it, or have they worked through in a way that will help them prevent a similar off-season disaster for 2013?"

I dunno, but for me it's in the balance. And for the moment, if I was Mark and looking for 2 more years before retirement ... a 2 year Ferrari offer would look very, very attractive. I'd have the current Ferrari technical department and 'car-sortedness / consistency' just edging out RBR as things stand right now. So it'd come down to Alonso vs Vettel as team mate, and team politics considerations.

AN shines when the rule changes are significant.
CASH shines when the rule changes are minor and evolutionary.

ANs next time to make a huge difference is when the v6 turbo engines come in and the packaging is all new.
Which does not make it a sure bet that Farrari will get the jump on RBR, but it makes it far less likely that AN can come up with some solution that gives RBR a significant advantage.

However.
RBR have evolved and improved in the strategy and tactics department.
They make fare less mistakes than most teams (unlike 07,08,09 where they were one of if not THE worst team on track)

IF AN stays with RBR for the nest 2 years they will be up the front at the very least.
Ferrari are looking good however, and you just can never count them out.
If a deal is on the table for MW I would love to see him take it.
But so far this year, MW has been getting a solid deal from RBR and it may be that the cracks behind the facade have been filled in.

I would dearly love to see MW racing in a front running team with a car that has some get up and go.
He has for the most part (first few races of 05 being the exception) been in cars that were either underpowered or simply lacking in top end speed.

[GotYoubyTheBalls]

In the paper today it reported Mark is set to go to Porsche team for Le mans in 2014. Fact.

[Brother Fox]

Dont know where you are, but was that in an Australian paper? They are notoriously bad at facts when it comes to F1.

[GotYoubyTheBalls]

Brother Fox, on Jun 18 2012, 06:14, said:

Dont know where you are, but was that in an Australian paper? They are notoriously bad at facts when it comes to F1.

Yep, Courier Mail. Todays paper. Two weeks ago He was a Ferrari Driver, done deal.

[Brother Fox]

Ah ha, so youre in Brisneyland too?

Now just wait for someone to play join the dots and say Audi out of Le Mans for Porsche, Audi to F1, Audi to supply Red Bull and Webber is part of that deal. Actually if I post that in enough dubious places on the internet it will probably end up in one of the major papers.

[GotYoubyTheBalls]

Brother Fox, on Jun 18 2012, 06:38, said:

Ah ha, so youre in Brisneyland too?

Now just wait for someone to play join the dots and say Audi out of Le Mans for Porsche, Audi to F1, Audi to supply Red Bull and Webber is part of that deal. Actually if I post that in enough dubious places on the internet it will probably end up in one of the major papers.

Yep, hopefully not for long though. WA here i come and big $

Better for watching F1 too

[goingthedistance]

GotYoubyTheBalls, on Jun 18 2012, 07:03, said:

In the paper today it reported Mark is set to go to Porsche team for Le mans in 2014. Fact.

I think Mark mentioned (joked about) that on twitter some time ago when asked, maybe they were just reprinting that. Mark was very vague though.

[GreenMachine]

The Courier Mail? It must be right ...

[goldenboy]

was a pretty funny article in a paper weekend just gone where webber questioned why he was called best mates with alonso. Apparently they have never had dinner together or done anything socially but are just friendly and say hello to each other is about all.

[Clatter]

goldenboy, on Jun 18 2012, 13:00, said:

was a pretty funny article in a paper weekend just gone where webber questioned why he was called best mates with alonso. Apparently they have never had dinner together or done anything socially but are just friendly and say hello to each other is about all.

Ah the denials. That's it then, they are definitely dating.

[faaaz]

Brother Fox, on Jun 18 2012, 06:38, said:

Ah ha, so youre in Brisneyland too?

Now just wait for someone to play join the dots and say Audi out of Le Mans for Porsche, Audi to F1, Audi to supply Red Bull and Webber is part of that deal.

What about Ferrari? Perhaps Audi and Ferrari are going to be in a partnership, Webber will be Ferrari's test driver.

[joshb]

GotYoubyTheBalls, on Jun 18 2012, 07:03, said:

In the paper today it reported Mark is set to go to Porsche team for Le mans in 2014. Fact.

He says he would only stay in F1 if he was in a top team

Would he want to go to sportscars/V8s or other series after he retires or would he only do it if he had a competitive seat there?

[smoothcrim]

He tested an old Porsche Lemans car about year ago for fun and does have a good relationship with them,wouldnt surprise me to see him driving for Porsche sometime in the future.

He'd make a great sportscar driver with his determination and speed but I dont think he knows what he is doing for the next 2 years never mind some newspaper.

Edited by smoothcrim, 18 June 2012 - 16:22.

[gm914]

goingthedistance, on Jun 18 2012, 04:00, said:

I think Mark mentioned (joked about) that on twitter some time ago when asked, maybe they were just reprinting that. Mark was very vague though.

Yeh that was me who asked him the question if he was interested in going back to endurance racing.
His reply was "1 day with Porsche."
SPEED TV AUS picked up on it, and it was in their top 5 tweets of the week.

Edited by gm914, 18 June 2012 - 16:54.

[Ian G]

goldenboy, on Jun 18 2012, 23:00, said:

was a pretty funny article in a paper weekend just gone where webber questioned why he was called best mates with alonso. Apparently they have never had dinner together or done anything socially but are just friendly and say hello to each other is about all.

I think they are reasonably close considering they are from rival Teams,i read a couple of years ago where they had a bike riding tour of Italy(?) planned.

[lbennie]

mark has had dinner with nando, the evening after schumie parking it at rascasse at monaco, and they were 2nd and 3rd behind him on the grid.
distinctly remember reading it in one of his bbc columns, or in his book.

[goldenboy]

Webber sets the record straight there, too. He likes the Spaniard, but they are not mates.

"I haven't had one dinner with Fernando socially. I don't know what 'good mates' relates to," he says.

"We get on well. It means we talk to each other. Most drivers don't even do that, so I suppose they think we get along like a house on fire."

Webber knows you don't have to be best mates to form a formidable team.

"I've been around long enough to know it's a working environment, as I am with Sebastian, as I am with any of my teammates," he said.

http://www.dailytele...r-1226397132973

[lbennie]

he's telling porkies then ;)

Quote

But Alonso, who ultimately won a season-long duel with Schumacher for the title, was worried that the stewards would let the seven-time champion off the hook - in which case he planned to make his own very public protest...

"I want to lie down in front of his car," Alonso told Webber at dinner on Saturday evening.

"I'm going to pull up on the grid, get out of my car and lie in front of his."

SOURCE: ITV-F1

[gm914]

I find it hard to believe that in all the years, with Flavio managing them both, they haven't sat down for a meal together.

[Ian G]

lbennie, on Jun 19 2012, 14:49, said:

he's telling porkies then ;)

gm914, on Jun 19 2012, 14:58, said:

I find it hard to believe that in all the years, with Flavio managing them both, they haven't sat down for a meal together.

Yeah,probaly just covering his tail,in the old days Drivers weren't allowed to meet in private with rival team Team Drivers/Officials,thats why deals were done with shadowy 3rd party's,i think thats what Mark was alluding to when he said he got a "cryptic offer" from Ferrari shortly after Massa's accident.
In these days of Driver manager's,restraint of trade,privacy & other considerations its probaly not in contracts as such but fraternisation with rival Teams would still be a no-no you would think.

[v@sh]

What Webber just said in regards to 2013 in he won't be looking elsewhere pretty much confirms what SuperSleeper said in that if Webber matches Seb to a specific target then his contract will automatically renewed. If he doesn't, then he is free to look elsewhere which in this case would be Ferrari. Hence why IMO he has said he will definitely be in F1 in 2013 - he has the choice of being at either one depending on his performances this year.

At this rate, he looks like he will be at RBR next year as he is doing pretty well relative to Seb. A nice situation to be in as either way as he should get a competitive car next year. What the main question is, is what that target figure is.

[slideways]

Goodbye Ferrari rumour. He was very honest, he has no one else making offers and has to perform to stay at Red Bull.