270 replies to this topic

[BoschKurve]

Timstr11, on Dec 13 2012, 12:47, said:

In his 22 years involvement, I'd say Norbert Haug has been a very succesful Mercedes-Benz motorsport director with big successes in DTM AND F1.
Those who are judging him with barely three years into Mercedes F1 team ownership have no sense of scale or history.

He has not been very healthy the last few years and it might do him good to take it easier.

What F1 success?

[pinkypants]

BoschKurve, on Dec 13 2012, 17:51, said:

What F1 success?

Are you purposefully forgetting the 2008 WDC, nearly winning 2007, 2010, not to mention Mika's WDCs etc?

[03011969]

Timstr11, on Dec 13 2012, 17:47, said:

In his 22 years involvement, I'd say Norbert Haug has been a very succesful Mercedes-Benz motorsport director with big successes in DTM AND F1.
Those who are judging him with barely three years into Mercedes F1 team ownership have no sense of scale or history.

What he said

BoschKurve, on Dec 13 2012, 17:51, said:

What F1 success?

Mercedes have been making F1 engines a while. You can find some information about it somewhere on the internet if you look hard enough...

Edited by 3011969, 13 December 2012 - 18:02.

[peroa]

H0R, on Dec 13 2012, 17:59, said:

Out? This thing stinks. "Der Stern" blatantly claims Haug was sacked. The officially used Phrase" in mutual agreement" means exactly this, btw.

Of course he was sacked.
Isn't that obvious?
BTW, my gut says he will move to Woking next year, Whitmarsh will find a job for him.

Edited by peroa, 13 December 2012 - 18:09.

[Raziel]

Sad news for me damn! Norby was my favorite from McLaren days.. such a shame that he will not be in F1 anymore

[drunkenmaster]

Yes, sad news, I really liked him. He was around most of the time I'm watching F1, so another era ends and another one of the "old guys" is gone.

Happy retirement Norbert!

[P123]

Clatter, on Dec 13 2012, 13:23, said:

I'm sure read a comment from LH regarding Haug and their long relationship, whereas it was Lauda who said he attracted LH. My memory could be playing tricks though.

It was Haug noting Hamilton's long relationship with Mercedes, all the way back to karting, and also pointing out that Mercedes contributed towards his annual retainer at McLaren.

[BoschKurve]

pinkypants, on Dec 13 2012, 12:57, said:

Are you purposefully forgetting the 2008 WDC, nearly winning 2007, 2010, not to mention Mika's WDCs etc?

McLaren has not even had close to the success they had with Cosworth, TAG, and Honda.

[BoschKurve]

3011969, on Dec 13 2012, 13:01, said:

Mercedes have been making F1 engines a while. You can find some information about it somewhere on the internet if you look hard enough...

Yes, I forgot, people considered those rebadged Ilmor engines as Merc engines....

[pinkypants]

BoschKurve, on Dec 13 2012, 18:19, said:

McLaren has not even had close to the success they had with Cosworth, TAG, and Honda.

We have no way for sure to directly compare what a Mclaren would have been like with another engine in them in the years they did have success under the Mercedes - Mclaren partnership. Point is that together Mclaren & Mercedes have had success - and Mercedes should be able to celebrate their contribution to that success.

[pinkypants]

peroa, on Dec 13 2012, 18:03, said:

Of course he was sacked.
Isn't that obvious?
BTW, my gut says he will move to Woking next year, Whitmarsh will find a job for him.

Oh the irony!!!

Wonder what Lewis makes of his decision to leave Mclaren now :/

Part of me fears he has well and truly ****ed up his career for at least the next 3 years and beyond.

/sighs

Edited by pinkypants, 13 December 2012 - 18:27.

[Szoelloe]

garoidb, on Dec 13 2012, 18:49, said:

Yes, I would say he has a very positive career.

Is there anyone else at Mercedes who ever worked with Lewis?

I don't think he has ever worked closely with LH. Of course Mercedes paying for part of the expenses through LH's career pre-F1 I imagine is true, and He himself should have played a role in that, considering his position. I think he will be missed throughout the paddock. He was a very honest, down to earth chap, everybody liked him. On a personal note, I can tell you, he could seriously party, and he is great behind the drums .

[Risil]

BoschKurve, on Dec 13 2012, 18:20, said:

Yes, I forgot, people considered those rebadged Ilmor engines as Merc engines....

Whoever pays the piper...

[LiJu914]

BoschKurve, on Dec 13 2012, 19:20, said:

Yes, I forgot, people considered those rebadged Ilmor engines as Merc engines....

Instead of buying Ilmor, they could´ve just hired Ilien instead, would that make the difference for you?

If not, who has to build the engine from your p.o.v. that it can be called a genuine merc-engine? The ancestors of Otto Benz or Gottlieb Daimler?

[Sakae]

pinkypants, on Dec 13 2012, 19:27, said:

Oh the irony!!!

Wonder what Lewis makes of his decision to leave Mclaren now :/

Part of me fears he has well and truly ****ed up his career for at least the next 3 years and beyond.

/sighs

If Hamilton switched teams only because of Haug, and no other reasons, than in that case I would say he deserves everything what's coming his way from now on.

[Rasputin]

pinkypants, on Dec 13 2012, 19:27, said:

Oh the irony!!!

Wonder what Lewis makes of his decision to leave Mclaren now :/

Part of me fears he has well and truly ****ed up his career for at least the next 3 years and beyond.

/sighs

Given that Mercedes GP lasts for three more seasons that is.

Edited by Rasputin, 13 December 2012 - 18:49.

[Coral]

Awwww what a shame, Norbert was one of the reasons I wanted Lewis to go to Mercedes. I'll really miss seeing him in F1.

[Szoelloe]

Coral, on Dec 13 2012, 19:57, said:

Awwww what a shame, Norbert was one of the reasons I wanted Lewis to go to Mercedes. I'll really miss seeing him in F1.

ahhmm,, huhh? Care to elaborate on that? What possible positives could LH get from Haug being at the team? I mean he was not really functional in any aspect of the actual everyday racing. He had no impact on strategy, he had no impact on the track-engineering team, he had no impact on design, and he would have had no impact whatsoever on driver order either. If you mean he was somebody LH actually knew personally, well, no miracles last more than three days, so I don't get it.

Edited by Szoelloe, 13 December 2012 - 19:05.

[BoschKurve]

pinkypants, on Dec 13 2012, 13:24, said:

We have no way for sure to directly compare what a Mclaren would have been like with another engine in them in the years they did have success under the Mercedes - Mclaren partnership. Point is that together Mclaren & Mercedes have had success - and Mercedes should be able to celebrate their contribution to that success.

Well we had a glimpse with the McLaren-Peugeot's in 1994.

Had Ron the Con not been upset by Jabouille and gone running to Haug's bag of Deutschemarks, who knows what might have come of it?

[BoschKurve]

LiJu914, on Dec 13 2012, 13:37, said:

Instead of buying Ilmor, they could´ve just hired Ilien instead, would that make the difference for you?

If not, who has to build the engine from your p.o.v. that it can be called a genuine merc-engine? The ancestors of Otto Benz or Gottlieb Daimler?

The engine needs to be built in-house.

I suspect in a few years McLaren will be dumping the Mercedes engines for the remnants of PURE.

[MP422]

Timstr11, on Dec 13 2012, 18:47, said:

In his 22 years involvement, I'd say Norbert Haug has been a very succesful Mercedes-Benz motorsport director with big successes in DTM AND F1.
Those who are judging him with barely three years into Mercedes F1 team ownership have no sense of scale or history.

He has not been very healthy the last few years and it might do him good to take it easier.

Yay !! Common sense !!

Norbert is 60 yrs old. The old dog is moving on. I don't understand the lot of you talking bad about Mercedes. If you knew anything about f1 you would realize that nothing is set in stone. Things change very fast and this manufacturer is capable of winning, they just need ail more time. Clearly they were lacking great drivers and a bad development path for 2012 now that that's known i bet we will see them move forward to a top team in F1 in the next 3 years. They have the resources. time will tell.

[BoschKurve]

Rasputin, on Dec 13 2012, 13:49, said:

Given that Mercedes GP lasts for three more seasons that is.

I suspect by midsummer, after the W04 turns out to be another abomination, Lewis will be sending overtures to Uncle Ron.

[MP422]

BoschKurve, on Dec 13 2012, 20:11, said:

I suspect by midsummer, after the W04 turns out to be another abomination, Lewis will be sending overtures to Uncle Ron.

Abomination ? 2012 race winning car ? Monaco pole sitter and 2nd place... get real.

[BoschKurve]

MP422, on Dec 13 2012, 14:11, said:

Yay !! Common sense !!

Norbert is 60 yrs old. The old dog is moving on. I don't understand the lot of you talking bad about Mercedes. If you knew anything about f1 you would realize that nothing is set in stone. Things change very fast and this manufacturer is capable of winning, they just need ail more time. Clearly they were lacking great drivers and a bad development path for 2012 now that that's known i bet we will see them move forward to a top team in F1 in the next 3 years. They have the resources. time will tell.

I read things like this, and I just wonder.

If you knew anything about those involved with MGP, you'd know why this team is not going to ever have success.

Things only change if capable people are actually running the show...and I've not seen a single capable person running the show at MGP since...well, ever?

[e34]

Who's gonna tell maverick69?

[BoschKurve]

MP422, on Dec 13 2012, 14:12, said:

Abomination ? 2012 race winning car ? Monaco pole sitter and 2nd place... get real.

No updates from Monaco to Singapore.

A negotiation with Hamilton that looked like Schumacher got forced out.

Excuses from the now fired, fat journo slob and Ross the Toss that never ended. "We're still trying to understand our rear tire wear."

I do recall they were supposed to be challenging for the championship in year 3. That's since been revised to some unknown date.

[Sakae]

MP422, on Dec 13 2012, 20:11, said:

Yay !! Common sense !!

Norbert is 60 yrs old. The old dog is moving on. I don't understand the lot of you talking bad about Mercedes. If you knew anything about f1 you would realize that nothing is set in stone. Things change very fast and this manufacturer is capable of winning, they just need ail more time. Clearly they were lacking great drivers and a bad development path for 2012 now that that's known i bet we will see them move forward to a top team in F1 in the next 3 years. They have the resources. time will tell.

I gather it's driver's fault they did not get on the podium more often? Give me a break, will you?

[loki]

JRizzle86, on Dec 13 2012, 14:59, said:

Bye Bye Papa Bear. Kudos for the Mercedes engines.

[MP422]

BoschKurve, on Dec 13 2012, 20:13, said:

I read things like this, and I just wonder.

If you knew anything about those involved with MGP, you'd know why this team is not going to ever have success.

Things only change if capable people are actually running the show...and I've not seen a single capable person running the show at MGP since...well, ever?

What makes you qualified to know whom is capable ? Exactly.

[MP422]

Sakae, on Dec 13 2012, 20:16, said:

I gather it's driver's fault they did not get on the podium more often? Give me a break, will you?

Yes among other things like is stated. The drivers did get onto to the podium in 2012.

[loki]

Sakae, on Dec 13 2012, 20:16, said:

I gather it's driver's fault they did not get on the podium more often? Give me a break, will you?

Schumacher was weak since he came back but I think it's more the car than anything. Sahara/FI is now beating them. Brawn is the team principal and Haug was basically the owner's rep. Ross Brawn is the one that runs the F1 team.

[f1rules]

happy retirement norbert, its been a pleasure, sad if you indeed got fired, they should look at brawn instead, he has delivered absolutely nothing and been nothing but a huge disappointment, I'm sure like someone mentioned, brawn will not see 2014 with this team

[stanga]

MP422, on Dec 13 2012, 19:23, said:

What makes you qualified to know whom is capable ? Exactly.

I'd like to know that too.

He did manage to hit the 'register' button on an F1 forum, though.

[sniper80]

Haug as the controversial new Lotus team boss Ecclestone was talking about?

[Sakae]

MP422, on Dec 13 2012, 20:24, said:

Yes among other things like is stated. The drivers did get onto to the podium in 2012.

What qualifies you to make that judgement, if I may ask?

[BoschKurve]

MP422, on Dec 13 2012, 14:23, said:

What makes you qualified to know whom is capable ? Exactly.

If you happened to look at the history of all of those involved, a lot of it becomes more than apparent.

What has Haug really done, or even Ross for that matter? Do you really think a professionally run F1 team would go 4 months without a single update to the car?

There's a big difference between this team which is simply a British car painted silver, and the true Silver Arrows cars of the 1950s and before the war.

The biggest success Haug ever had was getting the $150K paid for Schumacher's seat in the Jordan 191.

[Risil]

Convincing the Mercedes board to buy a racing team when every other manufacturer was fleeing from F1 was a pretty incredible achievement.

[Fastcake]

BoschKurve, on Dec 13 2012, 20:38, said:

There's a big difference between this team which is simply a British car painted silver, and the true Silver Arrows cars of the 1950s and before the war.

Really, what's the difference then? The phone number?

[ayali]

Risil, on Dec 13 2012, 21:42, said:

Convincing the Mercedes board to buy a racing team when every other manufacturer was fleeing from F1 was a pretty incredible achievement.

Not really when it involved getting away from the cheating stench that surrounded McLaren back then.
Buying Brawn provided that and gave them their own team at a fraction of the budget.

[BoschKurve]

Risil, on Dec 13 2012, 15:42, said:

Convincing the Mercedes board to buy a racing team when every other manufacturer was fleeing from F1 was a pretty incredible achievement.

Oh I agree.

Can you imagine the sales pitch Haug must have laid out to Dr Z and the Daimler board?

They thought they were getting a championship team that was going to continue the success of 2009, and at quite a bargain price too.

Little did they know.

[BoschKurve]

Fastcake, on Dec 13 2012, 15:49, said:

Really, what's the difference then? The phone number?

A pretty big difference.

Why, I recall when Ferrari came to the conclusion you couldn't quite call it a Ferrari when it was being designed in England.

[eronrules]

sniper80, on Dec 13 2012, 21:25, said:

Haug as the controversial new Lotus team boss Ecclestone was talking about?

NAAH ... haug isn't nearly as controversial as others out there. beside, i don't think bernie had anything to do with this. it was quite a shock TBH, i'd thought he'd switch his attention to DTM perhaps, but out of mercedes is unexpected. and beside, he doesn't look to be in good shape healthwise.


that said, if anyone fits the bill of controversial, it has to be Flavio, or pat symonds.

[Sakae]

DW has an article on this story, and merely confirms what is known, that in joint statement Norbert Haug was very gracious to his board and marquee, described as a friend of Lauda, and ended with confirmation that Haug has not revealed what's next for him. (I hope it's not a visit to doctor's office). One thing I didn't know but learned that he was by training a journalist, despite spending most of his adult life in one paddock or another.

Edited by Sakae, 13 December 2012 - 21:17.

[rolf123]

A shame that Haug has been fired. At his level, he only determines resource allocation within the whole motorsport division as well as hiring of the big players such as Brawn. Very similar to what Mario Thiessen did, no? It's hardly his fault that Brawn has failed, despite the money being thrown at that team.

I really can't see how Lauda is going to fare better than Haug. I suppose at least he has experience from the airline industry. But I don't see his racing experience giving him an advantage over other candidates and I don't exactly see major global non-motorsport companies rushing to get Lauda's signature either.

By the way, what's the issue with Haug's health, apart from being overweight? Has he been hospitalised in recent years?

Edited by rolf123, 13 December 2012 - 23:09.

[P123]

BoschKurve, on Dec 13 2012, 20:53, said:

Oh I agree.

Can you imagine the sales pitch Haug must have laid out to Dr Z and the Daimler board?

They thought they were getting a championship team that was going to continue the success of 2009, and at quite a bargain price too.

Little did they know.

I thought Zetsche was the driving force behind the acquisition of Brawn. McLaren wouldn't sell them an increased stake, and then Brawn made success look easy....

[Sakae]

@rolf: Ehm, who said that he was fired? I do not know why he is leaving, but based on all statements I read about it, I think he has left a company for unexplained reasons, and that's all what we know for fact at this point.

Fact also remains, that on one hand perception is that they are, or were, top heavy, from another point of view, there is a lot of work all around, especially when 2014 requires new engines. Lauda in control from the distances sounds to me like a bad joke, because I would think that he should add a bathroom and bedroom to his F1 office, and live there for a while. What puzzles me, that engine guy has left as well, and I do not like such constant tree shaking. Do it once, do it well, but let then everyone settle down, and focus on work.

Edited by Sakae, 13 December 2012 - 23:23.

[rolf123]

Sakae, on Dec 14 2012, 00:22, said:

@rolf: Ehm, who said that he was fired? I do not know why he is leaving, but based on all statements I read about it, I think he has left a company for unexplained reasons, and that's all what we know for fact at this point.

This has been discussed plenty already. Consider it shorthand for "left by mutual agreement". In 99% of cases, that's what it usually is and is just a face-saving measure for both parties.

[rijole1]

I'm gonna miss Haug so much
He seemed to be so nice and passionate about racing - here an example:

https://www.youtube....UU0b8m7Us#t=96s

Wish him luck in what ever he's going to do next

Edited by rijole1, 13 December 2012 - 23:45.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Why do people bother with Lauda? He seems to be abrasive dick with no discernible managerial skill (which seems to be a very common trait among Austrian ex-racers).

[halifaxf1fan]

http://www.youtube.c...p;v=V9UU0b8m7Us

This is a video of Raikkonen's first pole and how I first came to be impressed by Haug, His passion for success and racing was very evident at the end of this video where he was overjoyed by Kimi's breakthrough and was cheering and pounding on the console at the pit wall. Hopefully he will be able to return to the pit wall sometime very soon.

This is a great pole lap video, no announcers just awesome racing sounds, horns and a cheering crowd!



48062

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 14 December 2012 - 04:28.