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Bernie: 'F1 has too many teams, losing another would be ideal'


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#1 Wiggy

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 22:13

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/20717038

Bernie wanting to ruffle some feathers again... :stoned:

Strange that he's so happy to openly kiss Ferrari, they really do look able to name their price...

I'd prefer to see 13 teams and 26 cars, but then I see F1 as a sport, whereas Bernie is only concerned with a business which masquerades as a sport... :cry:

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#2 Peter Perfect

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 22:15

Hmm..good old Bernie. He's predictably unpredictable.

How's the tender process for extra teams looking now a few years down the line?

#3 BRG

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 22:20

This sounds like a Bernie pre-emptive statement to cover his ass when another team drops out after HRT. So which is the team that he is expecting to fail?

#4 Peter Perfect

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 22:27

I always get suspicious of small teams with big claims over the winter period. Maybe because it brings back memories of Prost.


#5 Eff One 2002

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 22:33

Urgh. Yet another nonsensical statement from the old man. :rolleyes: What would actually be ideal is for F1 to have a full grid of 26 cars. Anorexic grids are not good for F1. The more teams out there, the better. 14 or 15 teams with 26 starters would be better yet, because you wouldn't know for sure which teams would qualify and be in the race like the late eighties/early nineties.

#6 ayali

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 22:40

Strange that he's so happy to openly kiss Ferrari, they really do look able to name their price...

Bernie knows what is good for business and Ferrari is (also according to him) the only team that matters in F1

I see it as just downplaying the "loss" of HRT

#7 Anderis

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 22:44

I'd prefer to see 13 teams and 26 cars, but then I see F1 as a sport, whereas Bernie is only concerned with a business which masquerades as a sport... :cry:

Exactly my thoughts. :cry:

I can't stand the way he shares FOM money between the teams. He is doing everything to let teams outside top10 in WCC die financially.

OK, I understand it is in his interest. He doesn't need more team to share the money with.

But as an F1 fan, I want to see 12 or 13 teams in F1 and backmarkers aren't refused a fair share of money which would allow them to keep so-so level of competitiveness.

Bernie may get his 10 teams soon. But then, again, if he gets it and then one or two of them are going to leave F1, the whole F1 has a serious problem. 3 cars per team is not a good solution for me. Too many team orders. 16 or 18 cars are way too little as well.

#8 BigCHrome

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 23:05

What a joke. I hate that greedy worm.

F1 has too many teams only because he has to pay all of them.

#9 Sakae

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 23:07

This sounds like a Bernie pre-emptive statement to cover his ass when another team drops out after HRT. So which is the team that he is expecting to fail?

Interesting perspective.

#10 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 23:12

Bernie needs to make up his mind. I believe he was rooting for more teams early 2010 when Toyota and BMW left the sport.

#11 FerrariFanInTexas

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 23:19

I assume Marussia will be next to fail. They are outside the top 10, and apparently the lack of FOM money is really hurting them. Bernie is probably preemptively setting the table for Marussia's exit.

#12 Rob

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 23:20

Why would you actively want teams to drop out? The more the merrier. At the bigger tracks we could probably have more than 26 starters anyway. It's only an arbitrary number.

#13 andrewf1

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 23:35

why do people even interview this senile old man, nobody can trust a word which comes out of his mouth, he's like a snake and changes his opinion according to the wind.

#14 Eff One 2002

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 23:36

At the bigger tracks we could probably have more than 26 starters anyway.


I'd be all for that. :up:

why do people even interview this senile old man, nobody can trust a word which comes out of his mouth, he's like a snake and changes his opinion according to the wind.


My thoughts exactly.

Edited by Eff One 2002, 13 December 2012 - 23:38.


#15 Seanspeed

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 23:42

The whole grid size thing I'm not bothered about. 20 is plenty. Those last 6 are pretty much unheard from once the race starts, its not like they contribute all that much. They're pretty much just padding as it is.

Not that I wish for the small teams to drop out, I'm just not going to pretend that missing any of these teams will really change much. The grid may look slightly smaller at the start of the race, but thats about it. It'll hardly be 'anorexic'.

If you want to see anorexic, look at MotoGP minus the CRT field. Thats a pathetic showing.

#16 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 23:44

Yep, this is a default preemptive move as another forumer said before, because he knows HRT is leaving, so he can say it´s all going like he wants it to go.

Now let´s isolate the content of what he said: I agree 100% if we talk about losing Marussia. They´re pointless right now. I don´t think 18 car grid is any better/worse than 24 cars grid automatically. If all a team can do is to be lapped race after race for years, it doesn´t add anything to the series frankly. In 2009 we had a grid without any team doing embarrasing performances, and I have to say I didn´t miss anything.

And I read some people want lots of cars with teams which won´t manage to qualify sometimes to be part of F1? Go get a grip, or better, throw away your nostalgia glasses.

#17 r4mses

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 23:58

For the sake of anyone who might or might not be up there - STOP listening and even more quoting this old guy. It's getting ridicules.

#18 rijole1

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 23:59

Hmm..good old Bernie. He's predictably unpredictable.

How's the tender process for extra teams looking now a few years down the line?


Bernie needs to make up his mind. I believe he was rooting for more teams early 2010 when Toyota and BMW left the sport.


why do people even interview this senile old man, nobody can trust a word which comes out of his mouth, he's like a snake and changes his opinion according to the wind.

Yeah, Bernie how is it gonna be!? Please make up your mind :drunk: - I'm confused


#19 rijole1

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 00:01

What a joke. I hate that greedy worm.

F1 has too many teams only because he has to pay all of them.

You're right - there can't be any other reason than - money

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#20 g1n

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 00:07

Don't worry he does not have much longer to exist in this world, soon someone will take over and maybe things will change.

#21 Rybo

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 00:11

Love him or hate him, Bernie is in it to make money and with less teams he gets to keep more for himself. I would love to see a full 26 car grid around Monaco and have proper scraps around backmarkers.

#22 Les

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 00:11

You're right - there can't be any other reason than - money


Indeed. I would personally prefer full grids of 26 maybe 25-26 teams so we have competition to get on the grid. I'm viewing it from a sporting position though and not a business one. Bernie likes it very structured and rigid - 10 teams and pretty much the same 20 drivers all year. More importantly I find it very disrespectful to Marussia after all their hard work and also their employees who are just trying to make an honest living just to have Bernie turn round and say this.

Edited by Les, 14 December 2012 - 00:11.


#23 rijole1

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 00:38

Indeed. I would personally prefer full grids of 26 maybe 25-26 teams so we have competition to get on the grid. I'm viewing it from a sporting position though and not a business one. Bernie likes it very structured and rigid - 10 teams and pretty much the same 20 drivers all year. More importantly I find it very disrespectful to Marussia after all their hard work and also their employees who are just trying to make an honest living just to have Bernie turn round and say this.

:up: Exactly. I would also prefer more teams, i think it could be really exiting. And his comments are really disrespectful to Marussia

#24 ViMaMo

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:39

Sure F1 is also business but why say "its a sport after all", lets race in Bahrain (!). Then there is the increased entry fees, increased license fees, governments pouring public funds into this wishing well (?), moving away from traditional circuits as and when it suits to blackmail them. The Ugly side !

Edited by ViMaMo, 14 December 2012 - 01:41.


#25 loki

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:41

"FOM has too many octogenarians in charge. One dropping out would be ideal..."

#26 packapoo

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:42

[quote name='Peter Perfect' date='Dec 13 2012, 23:15' post='6072714']
Hmm..good old Bernie. He's predictably unpredictable.

Like a fart you could even say.





#27 exmayol

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:54

He's just losing his marbles slowly but surely. Too much power for too many years.

#28 Petroltorque

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:20

Ecclestone's statement illustrates who his paymasters are. Venture Capitalist as distinct from Private Equity add little value to an organistion. They are just looking at the profit margin.
One must hope that the European Commission looks at the anti competitive nature of FOM activities. AFAIK Bernie has not offered Concorde agreements to Marussia or Caterham since they have failed to score points.
The irony is that the latest team to fold was one, incompetently run by a Venture Capitalist firm.

#29 Nonesuch

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:21

Why would you actively want teams to drop out?

Because, at least this is my interpretation, if he can convince people that 10 teams is indeed better - these same people will not ask too many questions or be too critical about HRT leaving the sport after only three seasons in which they did nothing all that special.

#30 gm914

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:26

Ecclestone's statement illustrates who his paymasters are. Venture Capitalist as distinct from Private Equity add little value to an organistion. They are just looking at the profit margin.
One must hope that the European Commission looks at the anti competitive nature of FOM activities. AFAIK Bernie has not offered Concorde agreements to Marussia or Caterham since they have failed to score points.
The irony is that the latest team to fold was one, incompetently run by a Venture Capitalist firm.

:up:

#31 FPV GTHO

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:49

Bernie wants to drop the $10m a year the new teams were getting. He probably didnt want them to begin with anyway, just part of a ploy between him and Max when Fota started. Go back to the 3 teams when they were picked - Campos Meta, USF1 and Manor GP. None of them looked serious at the time and none of them made it to the grid in their original format. Meanwhile serious outfits like Prodrive were ignored and Lotus Racing only came in because BMW left.

To deny Marussia a spot now with all the work they've put in the last 3 years would be a blow. You could eliminate Caterham on the same grounds as 10th or not in the WCC they still haven't scored any points in 3 years. That was something even Minardi could achieve every so often and with less points paying positions.

#32 Doughnut King

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:56

How quickly Bernie forgets that at the end of the 2009 season Toyota and BMW left. If it wasn't for the new teams (which had been induced to apply and prepare under false promises) waiting in the wings the number of teams could have easily fallen to 8.

#33 muramasa

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:04

Ecclestone's statement illustrates who his paymasters are. Venture Capitalist as distinct from Private Equity add little value to an organistion. They are just looking at the profit margin.
One must hope that the European Commission looks at the anti competitive nature of FOM activities. AFAIK Bernie has not offered Concorde agreements to Marussia or Caterham since they have failed to score points.
The irony is that the latest team to fold was one, incompetently run by a Venture Capitalist firm.

+1



#34 Sakae

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:07

Ecclestone's statement illustrates who his paymasters are. Venture Capitalist as distinct from Private Equity add little value to an organistion. They are just looking at the profit margin.
One must hope that the European Commission looks at the anti competitive nature of FOM activities. AFAIK Bernie has not offered Concorde agreements to Marussia or Caterham since they have failed to score points.
The irony is that the latest team to fold was one, incompetently run by a Venture Capitalist firm.

Ecclestone's public statements of recent times are increasingly puzzling and eyebrow rising. God only knows what motivated him to say that Ferrari is so important to F1, whilst ignoring others. Could be fun to hear guzzling sound of air the other team owners probably let out after they heard it. He is a man of infinite puzzlement, and maybe a bit of reflection of his age. First he creates stir because of his backroom dealings with RBR, Ferrari and McLaren on subject of CA, and now he implicitly tells two of them three months later that he doesn’t mind if they leave? Wonderful.

Edited by Sakae, 14 December 2012 - 13:38.


#35 SenorSjon

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:31

Bernie wants to drop the $10m a year the new teams were getting. He probably didnt want them to begin with anyway, just part of a ploy between him and Max when Fota started. Go back to the 3 teams when they were picked - Campos Meta, USF1 and Manor GP. None of them looked serious at the time and none of them made it to the grid in their original format. Meanwhile serious outfits like Prodrive were ignored and Lotus Racing only came in because BMW left.

To deny Marussia a spot now with all the work they've put in the last 3 years would be a blow. You could eliminate Caterham on the same grounds as 10th or not in the WCC they still haven't scored any points in 3 years. That was something even Minardi could achieve every so often and with less points paying positions.


And in a time where only the top 6 received points... but with 'cost cutting' the cars are now overly reliable, so no chance for those teams to make the top 10. Also no testing, so how is a new team expected to get up to speed? It has been three years and unfortunately not much could come from them. Is is it a first in F1 history three teams never scored a point in three years?

#36 Anderis

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:02

One must hope that the European Commission looks at the anti competitive nature of FOM activities.

Here's the hope.

Does anyone know more about it? Does it have a real chance of changing something?

#37 Clatter

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:51

For the sake of anyone who might or might not be up there - STOP listening and even more quoting this old guy. It's getting ridicules.


Like or not he is the one running things so there is no point sticking your head in the sand.

#38 Petroltorque

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:29

Here's the hope.

Does anyone know more about it? Does it have a real chance of changing something?

The problem is no team from within the F1 setup will be willing to turn whistleblower. One can hope that now Adam Parr has left Williams he might be willing to broach the subject.

#39 UPRC

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:37

I wish that someone in the F1 world would finally acknowledge Bernie's dementia so that we can be rid of him.

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#40 Fastcake

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:49

Bernie saying Bernie things. He probably means something completely different, seems to be his usual use for the press.

#41 lambylamby

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 13:13


why do people even interview this senile old man, nobody can trust a word which comes out of his mouth, he's like a snake and changes his opinion according to the wind.

My thoughts exactly.


Mine too.

I would like to add someone like Bernie or his 'minions' would of course have no need/time to look on a board like this, or indeed even bother want to, but clearly regardless however 'weak' real fans voices are, they are nonetheless voices and with that note in mind that's how callous his remark is to this undefined team and mostly to the fans.

Edited by lambylamby, 14 December 2012 - 13:22.


#42 billm99uk

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 13:29

OMG I'm starting to agree with Luca di Montezemolo :eek:

There's a first time for everything, I suppose.

Edited by billm99uk, 14 December 2012 - 13:29.


#43 PayasYouRace

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 14:02

Bring back full fields. There hasn't been one since early 1995 for goodness sake.

Why would you actively want teams to drop out? The more the merrier. At the bigger tracks we could probably have more than 26 starters anyway. It's only an arbitrary number.


Indeed. Most Tilkedromes could easily accomodate a larger field.

I don't think a situation where teams being able to qualify one weekend, and failing to the next would be particularly sustainable, but I want F1 to be open to any team who wants to have a go. If we have ten teams, and one or more drop out, then we start having serious problems.

#44 swiniodzik

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 15:12

The biggest problem isn't the maximum profit stance from CVC, it's that some of the teams again can't look further than the tips of their noses. FOTA was the thing Bernie feared the most but it turned out to be as vulnerable as a house of cards. The teams being united had so much bargaining strength to get more power and money on their side and still make the sport better as a whole by propagating more stability across the whole grid.

Ferrari and Red Bull betrayed the rest as soon as enough of a preferential commercial and political treatment was offered to them. Once FOTA was basically blown up, the small teams were left so dependent on Bernie's goodwill anyway that it's no wonder they just accept what's given to them and don't lodge a complaint to the EU commission even if they believe that the unequal division of power and money in the new Concorde is anti-competitive and unlawful.

#45 Petroltorque

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 15:53

Ecclestone might have an argument if the grid consisted of 10 independent teams. Unfortunately STR is a RED Bull lackey squad; populated by drivers who need to drive far off track so as not to impede Vettel but more than happy to rear end Glock under safety car conditions (WTF? that Brainless manouevre cost Marussia $14 million). I can remember when dealing with backmarkers was integral to a driver's skill. The sooner Red Bull are forced to relinquish control of STR the better!

Edited by Petroltorque, 14 December 2012 - 15:54.


#46 Sakae

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 16:25

STR under RB'ownership is a thorn in my side for some time, and I do agree that this breakup should be enforced ASAP. Unfortunately I do not read anywhere that there are any inclination by anyone to talk about it openly. It would be nice to see a new entrant taking an interest in the team and problem is solved. (There are more serious questions to ask about that bussiness other than "favours" to Vettel). :D

#47 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 16:29

Totally agree with this. Red Bull has four cars, whilst other teams only have two. This is pretty unfair and I still don't understand why Toro Rosso was granted permission back in 2006.

#48 SpaMaster

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 16:30

What a despicable money-monger! "as long as we have Ferrari"? At least pose to be impartial.

#49 Sakae

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 18:03

The biggest problem isn't the maximum profit stance from CVC, it's that some of the teams again can't look further than the tips of their noses. FOTA was the thing Bernie feared the most but it turned out to be as vulnerable as a house of cards. The teams being united had so much bargaining strength to get more power and money on their side and still make the sport better as a whole by propagating more stability across the whole grid.

Ferrari and Red Bull betrayed the rest as soon as enough of a preferential commercial and political treatment was offered to them. Once FOTA was basically blown up, the small teams were left so dependent on Bernie's goodwill anyway that it's no wonder they just accept what's given to them and don't lodge a complaint to the EU commission even if they believe that the unequal division of power and money in the new Concorde is anti-competitive and unlawful.

...why leave McLaren out?

#50 Petroltorque

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 18:41

...why leave McLaren out?

Because it's widely suspected that McLaren's $50 million fine for spygate was payback for referring the FIA to the EU commission in the first place.