99 replies to this topic

[Rob]

With the exception of Suzuka 94, Hill was the driver that sprung to mind for me too.

Interlagos '96?
Spa '98?

He was fine in the wet. Yeah, he had some crappy wet races but so did Schumacher. Look at Monaco '96 or Imola '95.

[Jimmy]

Back in the 90s Schumacher always had the advantage of the spare car (exclusively set up for him) with a different set up. I remember he would often do an exploratory lap in one car, then the other, and decide which one was set up best. Other drivers never had this luxury.

[Trust]

With the exception of Suzuka 94, Hill was the driver that sprung to mind for me too.

Also, I'm sure I'll be proven wrong, but for a driver that has been considered one of the best in the field for over a decade I don't recall Räikkönen ever dominating a wet race.

There is no bigger domination than this:

[Hans V]

To say that Prost didn't like rain is unfair to him. He actually was very good n the rain, but hated having little or no sight. This escalated after Pironis accident in 1982, when Prioni didn't see Prost in the the rain and spray took off on Prosts back wheel and had a huge carreer-ending shunt.

[MLC]

To say that Prost didn't like rain is unfair to him. He actually was very good n the rain, but hated having little or no sight. This escalated after Pironis accident in 1982, when Prioni didn't see Prost in the the rain and spray took off on Prosts back wheel and had a huge carreer-ending shunt.

True enough. Prost had the skills, if not the desire after '82. His early years were impressive enough and he still won wet races. People tend to forget that at Donington '93 when Senna was superb, Prost had actually regained the lead after, I think it was, both had made 2 pit stops. But then he switched back to rain tyres too early, had to change back again, stalled, etc. His race was toast after that. But at the next race in Imola, in the tricky dry/wet conditions he passed both Hill and Senna in a single move. Of course, his post-retirement exploits in ice racing show that slippery conditions are well within Prost's skill set.

The first top-level driver that I thought of that wasn't actually good in the wet was Jacques Villeneuve. He always seemed to struggle more in the wet compared to the other drivers.

[1Devil1]

Back in the 90s Schumacher always had the advantage of the spare car (exclusively set up for him) with a different set up. I remember he would often do an exploratory lap in one car, then the other, and decide which one was set up best. Other drivers never had this luxury.

1. this topic is not about the best rain driver so I don't understand your point here 2. not true. spare car's were allowed for every team so why didn't Williams took the same approach to set one car up for a wet track. Schumacher was a superb rain driver (he still was at his return), plus he took every opportunity/strategical move to be ahead of the others, it was part of his tactic which made him so successful. Williams were stupid for not doing the same

[Wander]

Damon Hill wasn't bad in the rain and I certainly don't remember him saying that he disliked the rain or anything like that. He had good wet weather races on a number of occasions although some of his races were spoilt by wrong tyre gambles in changing conditions.

[wingwalker]

With the exception of Suzuka 94, Hill was the driver that sprung to mind for me too.

Are you guys on crack? My memories are fuzzy as it was looooong ago, but with the exception of Spain 1996 he usually did very, very good in the wet. He was outpaced by Schumacher in Spa in 1998 but still was 20-30 (I think... certainly a huge bit) a head of everyone else before SC came out.. what else is there... again, he was leading in Monaco by half a minute in 1996 at the time his engine blew, and wet Monaco is I think the ultimate test of wet driving skills. This guy gets some really bad rap on this board.

[Kingshark]

Compared to Lewis, almost any driver looks weak in the wet...

2012 showed that Lewis is still very reliant on the car to make him perform well the rain. Alonso won in Malaysia, and took pole in both Silverstone and Hockenheim. Where was Lewis all this time?

there is no myth about senna , he is THAT good

[scheivlak]

There is no bigger domination than this:

To me, Kimi's best race in the rain was perhaps at Fuji in 2007 when he came all the way from 21nd to finish 3rd. Crucial to keep his remote championship hopes alive!
His China win immediately after that wasn't too bad either.

[Myrvold]

The classic is Alain Prost. Felipe Massa, although not a 'great' driver, also struggles in the rain. I'm sure there have been more.

I was once told that Massa was the driver that took the most points in wet races in 07 and 08 combined (or was it 06 and 07, can't remember)

[Ragingjamaican]

To me, Kimi's best race in the rain was perhaps at Fuji in 2007 when he came all the way from 21nd to finish 3rd. Crucial to keep his remote championship hopes alive!
His China win immediately after that wasn't too bad either.

That drive in Fuji is definitely underated.

I remember that one new line that he found and he got so much speed out of it.

[V3TT3L]

Mika Hakkinen... even more astonishing considering that all other Finish drivers were great in wet track conditions.

[MortenF1]

That drive in Fuji is definitely underated.

I remember that one new line that he found and he got so much speed out of it.

Yeah, taking that wide line in one of the last turns. Great to see, 'cause it seems like driving off-line in the wet is actually less common in F1 than in karts and really most junior categories.

[Prost1997T]

Mika Hakkinen... even more astonishing considering that all other Finish drivers were great in wet track conditions.

IIRC he was fine in the wet, just not in changing conditions (see: Nurburgring 2000).

[wingwalker]

Yeah, taking that wide line in one of the last turns. Great to see, 'cause it seems like driving off-line in the wet is actually less common in F1 than in karts and really most junior categories.

It seems to me that a lot of F1 drivers are so focused on the optimal line their mind does not comprehend that a wider line might be faster in the wet, even if a driver in front chooses it and clearly gains a whole lot of ground by altering his line. Which sounds like a total armchair bullshit (well, it is) but quite often I really feel that way.

Edited by wingwalker, 08 March 2013 - 18:44.

[KnucklesAgain]

Damon Hill

Had a few stinkers, but also a number of amazing wet weather drives. (And I don't get tired to repeat that in 95 not only Hill was weak, but the Williams strategy team as well).

[Disgrace]

Damon Hill

What, the winner of Suzuka 1994, Brazil 1996 and Spa 1998?

Most of these names have either had good or even exceptional wet weather drives in some of the most appalling conditions.

Edited by Disgrace, 08 March 2013 - 19:03.

[Disgrace]

IIRC he was fine in the wet, just not in changing conditions (see: Nurburgring 2000).

Suzuka '95 and and France '99 (albeit one spin) were two top Hakkinen drives in changeable conditions.

[Orrelto]

I think Trulli was always absolutely horrible in wet. I remember one Canadian GP wet qualifying (one-lap-only format) where he was like on ice, snap-oversteering all the time, while others looked more or less ok. Whether he was a Great driver or not is another question, but he was a great qualifier without a doubt.

[V3TT3L]

Suzuka '95 and and France '99 (albeit one spin) were two top Hakkinen drives in changeable conditions.

France 99?
Rubens, Alesi and Cubehead had much better performances.

Mika also had a frigtening spin at high speed in Spa

[scheivlak]

France 99?
Rubens, Alesi and Cubehead had much better performances.

Coulthard who did a mere 9 laps in the dry?

Alesi who just spun off the track ans said afterwards: "When I braked for a corner the car spun into the gravel. It was my mistake!"
http://www.forix.com...19990007011&c=0

[Disgrace]

France 99?
Rubens, Alesi and Cubehead had much better performances.

Mika also had a frigtening spin at high speed in Spa

Well DC retired from the lead with a mechanical DNF before it got wet so we can't compare them. He was far ahead due to qualifying.

Alesi spun off, after he had been overtaken by Mika anyway.

Rubens was pretty much driver of the race, I think it's fair to say he was better but then shined in the wet frequently, and that's not the sort of driver we're supposed to be talking about.

Edited by Disgrace, 08 March 2013 - 19:53.

[V3TT3L]

Coulthard who did a mere 9 laps in the dry?

Alesi who just spun off the track ans said afterwards: "When I braked for a corner the car spun into the gravel. It was my mistake!"
http://www.forix.com...19990007011&c=0

Rubens and Alesi fought for the pole in heavy rain.
DC's car died silently while in a confortable lead.
Mika spun and got an x-pass from Rubens much latter in the race.

[alframsey]

Compared to Lewis, almost any driver looks weak in the wet...

See even as a huge Lewis fan I'm starting to think this is a myth, indeed I can't recall any great wet drives since the 2009 rule changes. Am I just very forgetful?

[Trust]

2012 showed that Lewis is still very reliant on the car to make him perform well the rain. Alonso won in Malaysia, and took pole in both Silverstone and Hockenheim. Where was Lewis all this time?

That doesn't have anything to do with Lewis. It's the same for all drivers of today's generation. This cars in wet aren't comparable to those which Senna drove. Back in those days, drivers made more difference in wet than car, but today it's very important which car you have beneath you.

[scheivlak]

Rubens and Alesi fought for the pole in heavy rain.
DC's car died silently while in a confortable lead.
Mika spun and got an x-pass from Rubens much latter in the race.

Rubens and Alesi could fight for the pole because they got out early and conditions became worse after they had set their times!

As I said, it's simply ridiculous to name DC here as he was already out before the first drops of rain fell......

Mika was simply the fastest man on track that day and would have won the race -even with his spin- if not for Jordan's inspired strategy and HHF's faultless execution.

[KnucklesAgain]

Damon Hill

Coming to think about it, I like that in a roundabout way Hill was elevated among the "great drivers" today

[Risil]

Myself, I'm a competent driver, not a great one. But I still don't like the rain. My shoes get wet and it makes traffic noise seem louder.

Edited by Risil, 08 March 2013 - 21:25.

[V3TT3L]

D === >

Edited by V3TT3L, 08 March 2013 - 21:34.

[Victor]

I remember reading an interview with the great rain master, Jacky Ickx, and he said that he hated wet driving conditions as much as all the other drivers. However, since he had solid wins in the rain under his belt the other drivers though he actually enjoyed wet races. Ickx claimed this gave him an advantage over the other drivers in the wet.
The best driver I saw in the wet (by far) was the great Gilles. Senna was very very quick in the rain, but Gilles was from another planet. I believe he really enjoyed the slippery conditions.

[scheivlak]

D === >

[MortenF1]

Coulthard who did a mere 9 laps in the dry?

Alesi who just spun off the track ans said afterwards: "When I braked for a corner the car spun into the gravel. It was my mistake!"
http://www.forix.com...19990007011&c=0

What?! DC pulled away from the field at two seconds per lap! It was a stranglehold on a certain win as good as any.

[ed24f1]

Hard to see any real standouts for me. Nearly everyone has had good and bad days. For example Hamilton of course had Silverstone 2008, but also made a mistake in the rain at Monaco 2008 (which ironically secured him the race win) and had a poor China 2009. Then for Massa he was obviously poor at Silverstone 2008 but has had other good performances in the wet such as Brazil 2008 and China 2009. Same for Alonso with a mix of crashing out or winning.

Vettel seems to have a fairly good record in the wet though, not too many blemishes yet.

[SpartanChas]

Would anyone really have liked the rain in the 50s-70s? Was dangerous enough in the dry.

I'm not su sur abou Button in the very wet conditions. Almost unbeatable in the damp though.

[George Costanza]

Compared to Lewis, almost any driver looks weak in the wet...

That would be Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher.

Edited by George Costanza, 09 March 2013 - 04:05.

[George Costanza]

IIRC he was fine in the wet, just not in changing conditions (see: Nurburgring 2000).

One of Michael's finest wins, IMO.

Pretty underrated.

[Nobody]

Compared to Senna and Schumi, almost every driver looks weak in the wet...

fixed it for ya

[scheivlak]

What?! DC pulled away from the field at two seconds per lap!

But -for the third time- that was in dry conditions.

You can't say -as V3TT3L originally stated- that DC proved himself a better driver in the rain that day as his race ended in still bonedry conditions ;)

[LiJu914]

Yep! A bit strange how "everyone" remembers Häkkinen's pass, but not DC's, also with another car between him and Schumacher, BUT, in the wet!
I guess the answer is that both Schumacher and Häkkinen were seen as titans and arch-rivals.

Or because one pass happened at 300+kph and the other at ~100.

[LiJu914]

IIRC he was fine in the wet, just not in changing conditions (see: Nurburgring 2000).

Nurburgring as an negative example for Mika?

He and Michael lapped the whole field.

MSC was superior on slicks in the drizzle as the Ferrari could put more heat in the tyres than the McL.

[MortenF1]

But -for the third time- that was in dry conditions.

You can't say -as V3TT3L originally stated- that DC proved himself a better driver in the rain that day as his race ended in still bonedry conditions ;)

I was boozed up when I answered yesterday. Now, I see what you said, no problem. (....still impressive to hammer the field like he did though!)

Or because one pass happened at 300+kph and the other at ~100.

That's wrong. It happened under braking for T1, so would've started at around 270-80, and been completed at, I don't know, 120-30.

[JustinD]

MSC was superior on slicks in the drizzle as the Ferrari could put more heat in the tyres than the McL.

How do you know that?

[Currahee]

IIRC Interlagos 2001?

This?

[LiJu914]

How do you know that?

Was a pattern the whole year (see also Suzuka) In reverse that turned out to be a disadvantage at times, when Ferrari had troubles with overheating tyres (Spa,Hungary).

Edited by LiJu914, 09 March 2013 - 11:31.

[LiJu914]

That's wrong. It happened under braking for T1, so would've started at around 270-80, and been completed at, I don't know, 120-30.

Nope, the actual pass happened at low speed, which is what i meant.

Edited by LiJu914, 09 March 2013 - 11:31.

[Fontainebleau]

See even as a huge Lewis fan I'm starting to think this is a myth, indeed I can't recall any great wet drives since the 2009 rule changes. Am I just very forgetful?

In my opinion, all great drivers have had some great performance in the rain, and some not so memorable ones. I don't think the latter detract from their skills, but I do think that some fans focus on the former and create a non-realistic view of said drivers.

Hamilton won Silverstone 2008 in a very spectacular fashion, and some people hook on that to claim he is in a different league when it comes to wet driving; those same people seem to forget his problems in other wet races, for example Germany 2007. Similarly, some Alonso supporters hook on Hungary 2006 to claim that he is a master in rain, while other people think that Alonso is in fact a "weak" driver in those conditions.

I think that in principle no top driver prefers rain to dry conditions, even if they all are very skilled in the wet. But in any specific race some may get an additional advantage over their competitors if it is raining, depending on their car and own driving characteristics, and then they would show preference to said conditions - that varies from season to season or from race to race. For example, last season Alonso said a few times that he wanted a wet race, because (in his view) that would reduce the performance gap of his equipment versus other competitors; in other occasions, I have heard him say exactly the opposite, because he throught that his equipment was competitive enough and he did not want the lottery that wet conditions usually implies.

[George Costanza]

Was a pattern the whole year (see also Suzuka) In reverse that turned out to be a disadvantage at times, when Ferrari had troubles with overheating tyres (Spa,Hungary).

I agree, sir.

When it was hot, Ferrari would be a bit slow compared to McLaren during the '00 season.

[Boxerevo]

Alonso, maybe?
Did he ever impress during rain?
I remember Fuiji 2007...

Search Hungary 2006.

This wet thing too has to be clarified,Hamilton is awesome driver on full wet conditions like Alonso,Vettel and others.

Button for example is a very good driver on full wet and a master on mixed conditions.

F1 today is "only" racing on "mixed" conditions.

Edited by Boxerevo, 09 March 2013 - 17:52.

[Nonesuch]

Felipe Massa, although not a 'great' driver, also struggles in the rain.

I'm not sure where, other than the rather horrible Silverstone 2008 race, Massa's reputation for being 'bad' in wet conditions comes from.

Races Massa drove for Ferrari that were partly wet (podium in bold): Brazil 2012 - Massa was 3rd, Malaysia 2012 - Massa was 15th, Hungary 2011 - Massa was 6th, Canada 2011 - Massa was 6th, South Korea 2010 - Massa was 3rd, Belgium 2010 - Massa was 4th, China 2010 - Massa was 9th, Australia 2010 - Massa was 3rd, China 2009 - Massa had a mechanical DNF, Malaysia 2009 - Massa was 9th, Brazil 2008 - Massa was 1st, Italy 2008 - Massa was 6th, Belgium 2008 - Massa was 1st, United Kingdom 2008 - Massa was 13th, Monaco 2008 - Massa was 3rd, China 2007 - Massa was 3rd, Japan 2007 - Massa was 6th, Europe 2007 - Massa was 2nd, China 2006 - Massa had a collision DNF, Hungary 2006 - Massa was 7th.

On average about 5th/6th. You can also see he generally scored higher in the years where the Ferrari was one of the top cars. While I don't think you could really build a strong case that Massa is exceptional in the wet, I don't think there's much reason to think he has a significant problem in wet conditions either.

Edited by Nonesuch, 09 March 2013 - 18:34.