151 replies to this topic

[Jackmancer]

Both have 20 wins now, though Kimi will certainly collect more. Who's the greatest Finn of them all?

Just finished this, showcasing their 40 wins together, hope you like.

[TheUltimateWorrier]

Kimi, he's won with different teams and was a little unlucky to miss out on a few titles. Plus he's a little more interesting in interviews too, Hakkinen was just a bit too weird.

Interviewer: "Mika, should China free Tibet?"
Mika: "*pause* . . . *pause* . . . *pause* . . . I don't know."
Interviewer: "Thanks, Mika!"

[Jackmancer]

Interviewer: "Mika, should China free Tibet?"
Mika: "*pause* . . . *pause* . . . *pause* . . . I don't know."
Interviewer: "Thanks, Mika!"

Why ask a F1 driver such thing? -.^

I find Kimi a weirder personality than Mika to be honest ;P

[Spillage]

Interesting. Hakkinen really only had three world-beating years, from 1998-2000. Kimi certainly is/has been at the top longer than that.

However, based on nothing in particular I always used to get the sense that Mika would be the quicker driver were both on top form. Some of his battles with Schumacher were just incredible. The 2000 title showdown in Suzuka in particular springs to mind - 1.8 seconds between Schumacher & Hakkinen, but both more than a minute clear of their respective team mates. There hasn't been such a clear-cut top two in F1 ever since.

[OS X]

Both have 20 wins now, though Kimi will certainly collect more. Who's the greatest Finn of them all?

Just finished this, showcasing their 40 wins together, hope you like.

That is a very beautiful image but the way Kimi is driving the Lotus and looking after his Pirellis, it may be out of date within a few days .

The memories I keep of both of these drivers are there Spa moments; Kimi for being so dominant and Mika for that overtake on Schumi.

Both have had very storied careers and are legends because of their world titles are more importantly because of the rivalries with Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton et cetera.

If Kimi makes it two world championships and gets well into the twentys in terms of victories, I think this will propel him past Mika's career achievements and make him the most successful Finn.

[LaoTze]

Nice work!

[Zava]

Kimi, he's won with different teams and was a little unlucky to miss out on a few titles. Plus he's a little more interesting in interviews too, Hakkinen was just a bit too weird.

Interviewer: "Mika, should China free Tibet?"
Mika: "*pause* . . . *pause* . . . *pause* . . . I don't know."
Interviewer: "Thanks, Mika!"

that reminds me of one of my favourite Mika interviews.

[CrashPad]

I've always felt that Raikkonen is ultimately the more talented one from the two, but that doesn't change the fact that Mika was and is a true legend in the sport.

[Ghostrider]

Nice work!

Second that!

[Jimisgod]

Kimi, he's won with different teams and was a little unlucky to miss out on a few titles. Plus he's a little more interesting in interviews too, Hakkinen was just a bit too weird.

Interviewer: "Mika, should China free Tibet?"
Mika: "*pause* . . . *pause* . . . *pause* . . . I don't know."
Interviewer: "Thanks, Mika!"

To be fair Mika was about half an inch away from death at Adelaide 1995.

[Jimisgod]

He's won in 3 teams, too.

Fangio: Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Lancia, Mercedes, Ferrari
Moss: Mercedes, Maserati, Vanwall, Cooper, Lotus (1)
Prost: Renault, McLaren, Ferrari, Williams
Alonso: Renault, McLaren, Ferrari
Kimi: McLaren, Ferrari, Lotus (2)
Button: Honda, BrawnGP, McLaren
M. Schumacher: Benetton, Ferrari

[Ickx]

Interesting. Hakkinen really only had three world-beating years, from 1998-2000. Kimi certainly is/has been at the top longer than that.

However, based on nothing in particular I always used to get the sense that Mika would be the quicker driver were both on top form. Some of his battles with Schumacher were just incredible. The 2000 title showdown in Suzuka in particular springs to mind - 1.8 seconds between Schumacher & Hakkinen, but both more than a minute clear of their respective team mates. There hasn't been such a clear-cut top two in F1 ever since.

I thought of that too and that was not the only occasion. Mika and Schumacher fighting for the lead and at the same time lapping or almost lapping there team mates. That is not something you see today. Obviously the sport has changed but what the hell, seems like driver input had a lot more to do with beeing quick back then.

[Lone]

Kimi's more naturally talented than Mika was and that alone makes me rate Kimi higher than Mika.

[choyothe]

Kimi is the better and more talented one for me.

[Juan Kerr]

Kimi's more naturally talented than Mika was and that alone makes me rate Kimi higher than Mika.

Mika was extremely talented and super-fast over one lap, I'd say they were very similar in talent/driving skill.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Too bad Mika retired after his sabbatical. Wouldn't it have been great to have a Hakkinen/Raikkonen duo in 2003 at McLaren

[garoidb]

Interesting. Hakkinen really only had three world-beating years, from 1998-2000. Kimi certainly is/has been at the top longer than that.

I'd say Mika was pretty close to the top in 2001 too, but didn't contend for the WDC. Kimi has had three very strong WDC challenges (2003, 2005, 2007) and another quite strong one in 2012. That is not too different from Mika, up to the present anyway. If Kimi can build a strong campaign this year then he starts to move ahead. I like that Kimi has been a contender at a few different teams too.

Edit: Kimi is now the same age that Mika retired at, and has just a few more race starts, so it is a good time to make this comparison.

Edited by garoidb, 17 March 2013 - 14:52.

[discover23]

Kimi hands down better than Mikka

[CrashPad]

It's also quite interesting that Mika scored all his wins in a time period of 4 years, whereas Kimi is at 10 years and counting.

[Longtimefan]

Mika on form would blow away Kimi. Sorry but it has to be said.

[Atreiu]

The Newey vs Schumacher dynamic of the 90s certainly made it harder for anyone to break in and get wins and McLaren really had a string of unremarkable cars from 94-96. But Hakkinen's impact was instantaneous as soon as he got a chance at it.

I domt know. Kimi is probably ammong the most talented ever anywhere, Hakkinen is a true legend and figure, as has been mentioned. Grenading Mercedes certainly screwed both of them bad enough.

[SilentKiller]

I agree Mika on his day would destroy Kimi. But on course of a season, Kimi would come ahead more often.

[Wander]

I think it's a really tough comparison. Mika is a legend, but he only had 3 world championship capable cars, Kimi's already had more than that, although the competition has also been a lot tougher for him in those years, I think. Mika's winning years were all Mclaren and Ferrari and his car was the faster at the start of the season each time. 2000 was obviously also a great year from him and he just barely missed out on winning 3 on the trot.

That said, I'd rate Kimi just slightly higher right now. With a little more luck he could be 2 or 3 times world champion. He's been successful in three different teams, and he has a huge amount of podiums, not to mention that you have to expect him to get more of them in near future.

Two great Finnish drivers continuing the tradition that was started by Keke back in the day.

Edited by Wander, 17 March 2013 - 15:20.

[Ghostrider]

Mika was great from pole when he could just storm away, as he often said on pressconference "flat out, optimal line".

Kimi seems to have an extreme talent and it shows in his racecraft, he very seldomn makes mistakes or have collisions.

Edited by Ghostrider, 17 March 2013 - 15:25.

[Jackmancer]

not to mention that you have to expect him to get more of them in near future.

True - where Kimi to get another WDC, that'd certainly cement his status as F1 great.

[Rikhart]

Very, very hard to choose amongst two of my favourite ever drivers. Mika had tremendous loyalty to mclaren, and wasted years upon years fighting in the midfield, although you could always see his quality. Kimi really should be a multiple world champion by now. In quality terms, I would go with Kimi, mentally he is peerless, and much stronger than Mika.

[Ickx]

Mika was great from pole when he could just storm away, as he often said on pressconference "flat out, optimal line".

Kimi seems to have an extreme talent and it shows in his racecraft, he very seldomn makes mistakes or have collisions.

He wasn't only great from pole, he was great at getting pole. Just that he outqualified Senna at his first GP for McLaren. Mika had 26 pole positions, Kimi has 16.

It is of course impossible to rate them agains each other but I would say Mika is the quicker. Kimi has matured in to the one with better race pace and patience.

For me, Mika will always be special but I have no illusions that it really has to do with him beeing the worlds greatest. Well, he was twice but you know what i mean.

[Ellios]

My heart tells me Mika Häkkinen because he came as close to dying as you'd ever want to be after his crash in Adelaide 95 and came back from it, because of his overtakes and duels with Michael Schumacher, not just in SPA 2000, but also the qualifying battles:


honestly, I just enjoy flat out racing

[BigCHrome]

Mika is a fair few levels ahead. He was a fantastic driver.

[Puhoon]

Mika was awesome. Also, two titles are more than one.

[George Costanza]

One could argue that Mika had beaten a vintage Michael Schumacher, who was at his absolute finest in 1998 season. At the same time, he struggled to beat Eddie in 1999... And then 2000, Mika had a few DNFs from getting 3 in a row, and beating vintage 2000 Michael Schumacher.

Mika for the time being because he beat Michael at his best.... What driver can say that? No one but him. Do not say Alonso of 2005-2006, because anyone who followed F1 for a time knows that Michael was not even close to his best in 2005 and 2006.

But I really think Kimi has a great shot at winning it in 2013.

Edited by George Costanza, 17 March 2013 - 16:46.

[beute]

It's funny to see that many pro Mika comments, considering that he is probably the driver that is most comparable to Vettel... you know.. only winning in newey cars, only winning by setting gazillion poles and starting from the front, main rival is the best driver ever ever in a obviously hopelessly bad ferrari, having a journeyman teammate that only occasionally mounts a challenge... etc.

yet vettel isnt very popular around here

seriously though: When I started watching F1 I was actually rooting for Mika, but Kimi has won with 3 different teams and never quite had a car that was able to lap the 3rd place finisher...
If his cars reliability would have been anywhere near as good as that of his main rivals at that time, he would have been a 3 times WDC.

Both great drivers,Kimi almost ended his career in the same disappointing manner as Mika did, luckily he came back to prove himself once again.

[Mc_Silver]

Mika is a legend and incredible talent. He is three steps ahead of Kimi.

[George Costanza]

It's funny to see that many pro Mika comments, considering that he is probably the driver that is most comparable to Vettel... you know.. only winning in newey cars, only winning by setting gazillion poles and starting from the front, main rival is the best driver ever ever in a obviously hopelessly bad ferrari, having a journeyman teammate that only occasionally mounts a challenge... etc.

yet vettel isnt very popular around here

seriously though: When I started watching F1 I was actually rooting for Mika, but Kimi has won with 3 different teams and never quite had a car that was able to lap the 3rd place finisher...
If his cars reliability would have been anywhere near as good as that of his main rivals at that time, he would have been a 3 times WDC.

Both great drivers,Kimi almost ended his career in the same disappointing manner as Mika did, luckily he came back to prove himself once again.

Mika had to endure some pretty terrible cars before his win in 1997.

Vettel hasn't had to endure that yet.

[George Costanza]

As for as the greatest Finn? Keke Rosberg has to be in the discussion for that title.

[intelligentsia]

Very, very hard to choose amongst two of my favourite ever drivers. Mika had tremendous loyalty to mclaren, and wasted years upon years fighting in the midfield, although you could always see his quality. Kimi really should be a multiple world champion by now. In quality terms, I would go with Kimi, mentally he is peerless, and much stronger than Mika.

I ve also been a fan of both and I agree.

Mika was a great qualifier, whilst Kimi is a great racer, they are different types of drivers. Times have also changed a lot when Mika won his WDC he clearly had the fastest car which was more of a norm those days, while it is these day rare to have such a dominating car. There is just much more competition these days and the teams are much closer.
Of course there is a more quantifiable way to look at this question, both of them had David Coulthard as a teammate for a long time. I think Kimi did better against Coulthard then Mika did. But even that doesn't necessarily say anything.

[George Costanza]

I ve also been a fan of both and I agree.

Mika was a great qualifier, whilst Kimi is a great racer, they are different types of drivers. Times have also changed a lot when Mika won his WDC he clearly had the fastest car which was more of a norm those days, while it is these day rare to have such a dominating car. There is just much more competition these days and the teams are much closer.
Of course there is a more quantifiable way to look at this question, both of them had David Coulthard as a teammate for a long time. I think Kimi did better against Coulthard then Mika did. But even that doesn't necessarily say anything.

To be fair, DC was slightly past his prime when Kimi came on board.

[pizzalover]

In terms of speed, I'd put Mika on the same level as Senna. However, he seemed to lack a single minded will to win. It was a travesty of justice he didn't win a third title.

[Skinnyguy]

Nostalgic in me wants to say Mika, my second F1 idol, first one when I was old enough to understand what was going on in races.

But Räikkönen´s better. I rooted like crazy for Mika and against Schumacher as a teen, but even as a fan I knew Mika wouldn´t stay a chance against Michael in a straight fight with the Ferrari-McLaren performance balance being like the 2003 season (Ferrari slightly faster and more reliable), while Kimi managed to come close and lose it on reliability.

Coulthard isn´t a fair yardstick. It´s the same that using Massa as a yardstick between Alonso and Räikkönen. A good yardstick is one that doesn´t move, and Coulthard was not as good when he had Kimi alongside.

[Raziel]

Mika is a legend and incredible talent. He is three steps ahead of Kimi.

X

Just to add, a great human being, humble and loyal!


It seems that kids that watching F1 for about 5-6 years would choose Kimi because he is super cool, he is still in F1, won title in Ferrari etc...but all older guys who watched F1 for the last 15-20 years would choose Mika. Kids these days are clueless about who Mika was, his qualities etc.. and have no historical appreciation. I watched both of them, as a McLaren fan loved them both to death, but there is only the one flying Finn and that is Mika Hakkinen! We all know what Schumacher said about him ;)

[Skinnyguy]

It seems that kids that watching F1 for about 5-6 years would choose Kimi because he is super cool, he is still in F1, won title in Ferrari etc...but all older guys who watched F1 for the last 15-20 years would choose Mika.

Nope. I didn´t. Isolating their driving (I liked Mika´s character more, and I was more excited about the sport and about all my sporting idols back then) I put Kimi ahead.

And you´re wrong in another thing: kids with 5 years of experience can think of Kimi as a guy halfway between the Webber/Button league and the top league, while guys being there from the start of his career will appreciate him much more as what he is: a guy with an excellent long career at top level with a year and a half hiatus of average driving. I think that if I had only watched Kimi since 2008, and all my info from Mika came from youtube, I would think Mika was way better.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 17 March 2013 - 18:05.

[choyothe]

It seems that kids that watching F1 for about 5-6 years would choose Kimi because he is super cool, he is still in F1, won title in Ferrari etc...but all older guys who watched F1 for the last 15-20 years would choose Mika. Kids these days are clueless about who Mika was, his qualities etc.. and have no historical appreciation. I watched both of them, as a McLaren fan loved them both to death, but there is only the one flying Finn and that is Mika Hakkinen! We all know what Schumacher said about him ;)

Nope #2.

[Wander]

X

Just to add, a great human being, humble and loyal!


It seems that kids that watching F1 for about 5-6 years would choose Kimi because he is super cool, he is still in F1, won title in Ferrari etc...but all older guys who watched F1 for the last 15-20 years would choose Mika. Kids these days are clueless about who Mika was, his qualities etc.. and have no historical appreciation. I watched both of them, as a McLaren fan loved them both to death, but there is only the one flying Finn and that is Mika Hakkinen! We all know what Schumacher said about him ;)

Thank you for being so patronizing, but I have, in fact, watched F1 since 1997. I think it's easy to see it both ways as they have been roughly equally successful.

[Menace]

X

Just to add, a great human being, humble and loyal!


It seems that kids that watching F1 for about 5-6 years would choose Kimi because he is super cool, he is still in F1, won title in Ferrari etc...but all older guys who watched F1 for the last 15-20 years would choose Mika. Kids these days are clueless about who Mika was, his qualities etc.. and have no historical appreciation. I watched both of them, as a McLaren fan loved them both to death, but there is only the one flying Finn and that is Mika Hakkinen! We all know what Schumacher said about him ;)

I was in my late teens and early twenties when Mika retired.

Mika was a great driver. Kimi appears even more naturally talented though.

Been following F1, especially McLaren+Mika+Kimi for 20 years now.

[ToXiCiTy]

Both are as good for me. I have seen both their careers and what i love about them most, is that they are so different racers. Mika was the Senna like balls out racer and Kimi uses his masterful race craft.

[Menace]

Nope. I didn´t. Isolating their driving (I liked Mika´s character more, and I was more excited about the sport and about all my sporting idols back then) I put Kimi ahead.

And you´re wrong in another thing: kids with 5 years of experience can think of Kimi as a guy halfway between the Webber/Button league and the top league, while guys being there from the start of his career will appreciate him much more as what he is: a guy with an excellent long career at top level with a year and a half hiatus of average driving. I think that if I had only watched Kimi since 2008, and all my info from Mika came from youtube, I would think Mika was way better.

[pizzalover]

X

Just to add, a great human being, humble and loyal!


It seems that kids that watching F1 for about 5-6 years would choose Kimi because he is super cool, he is still in F1, won title in Ferrari etc...but all older guys who watched F1 for the last 15-20 years would choose Mika. Kids these days are clueless about who Mika was, his qualities etc.. and have no historical appreciation. I watched both of them, as a McLaren fan loved them both to death, but there is only the one flying Finn and that is Mika Hakkinen! We all know what Schumacher said about him ;)

I remember when Mika was driving the Peugeot powered McLaren at Monza, they cut to some on board footage of him for a lap or two. Every corner he took he corrected over steer, under steer, over steer. All the while the car maintained a perfect trajectory. I've very rarely seen this ability to be "on it" through out a race. Senna was one. The other, which I know may cause some mirth, was Nigel Mansell.

Edited by pizzalover, 17 March 2013 - 18:27.

[jj2728]

It seems that kids that watching F1 for about 5-6 years would choose Kimi because he is super cool, he is still in F1, won title in Ferrari etc...but all older guys who watched F1 for the last 15-20 years would choose Mika. Kids these days are clueless about who Mika was, his qualities etc.. and have no historical appreciation. I watched both of them, as a McLaren fan loved them both to death, but there is only the one flying Finn and that is Mika Hakkinen!

Then there is another group of us older older guys who still consider Nico's dad to be the first 'Flying Finn'. All a matter of perspective and age I guess.

[Vieras]

Here I was thinking that Paavo Nurmi is the Flying Finn. I quess that Finns aren't that creative with their nicknames.

[michaelmyers]

This one is really really tough to decide. Both of them being my absolute favorite F1 drivers ever. Can't I choose both?

Probably my favorite Mika clip ever