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Jean Todt wants Michelin back in F1


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#1 ZooL

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 14:33

A German magazine is reporting that FIA president Jean Todt wants Michelin to consider returning to formula one.

Pirelli's three-year contract as the sport's official sole supplier ends next season, with boss Paul Hembery indicating that an extension is not guaranteed.

Replying to a direct question on Twitter about Pirelli's plans for F1 beyond 2013, Hembery said recently: "If they (F1) want us and if the economy stays sane, yes (we will stay)."

Michelin, however, has said previously that it would only consider coming back to F1 - where it competed with Bridgestone between 2001 and 2006 - if the sport ends its current single-supplier rule.

http://www.auto123.c...f1?artid=145713


Pirelli don't want to compete in a tyre competition.
Michelin only want to come back to competition.

From what I've read elsewhere FIA are reluctanct to give Pirelli a new contract for 2014 and Pirelli are saying they want a contract now because its getting too late.

I think Jean Todt is not happy with Pirelli, thats why he's asking Michelin to come back.

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#2 Disgrace

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 14:37

Hoh hoh hoh, pourquoi Michelin?

Edited by Disgrace, 23 March 2013 - 14:38.


#3 Owen

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 14:37

The different stance between Pirelli and Michelin is interesting.

#4 aray

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 14:39

i don't want tyre competition....whoever supplying,be it Michillin,Brindgestone or Perelli,there should be one supplier....tyre war is the last thing i want in F1....

#5 ANF

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 14:39

Published: Wednesday, July 18, 2012

#6 ZooL

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 14:45

Published: Wednesday, July 18, 2012

Yes its last year news, but not that old, 2013 just started :p

It's still true though, and Pirelli still have no new contract.
I don't think many are aware that Jean Todt is looking elsewhere to try and replace Pirelli.

Edited by ZooL, 23 March 2013 - 14:45.


#7 JeanClaude

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 14:47

Haha "news" from 9 months ago lol
http://www.motorspor...lin-back-in-f1/

A tyre war makes no sense in the current economic climate so no Michelin
I fully expect Pirelli to continue

JC

#8 naiboz

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 14:53

with the testing limits we have in place just now there is no way you can have a tyre war


#9 peroa

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 14:57

with the testing limits we have in place just now there is no way you can have a tyre war

There wouldn't be one, because no team in their right mind would choose Pirelli as their supplier in a competitive environment.

#10 Ali_G

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 14:59

Do we have to keep going over old ground.

Pirelli have designed a set of tyres asked for it by F1. They are to degrade quickly to improve the show.

1. Pirelli aren't doing this because they want to
2. It should be obvious to anyone that if there was a tyre war, Pirelli would be making much more durable tyres.

#11 rhukkas

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 15:00

i don't want tyre competition....whoever supplying,be it Michillin,Brindgestone or Perelli,there should be one supplier....tyre war is the last thing i want in F1....


... but you're fine with an aero war though :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#12 dau

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 15:02

The different stance between Pirelli and Michelin is interesting.

I doubt Michelin is interested in returning to F1, tyre war or not. It just sounds nicer to say they won't return because they want to have competition.

#13 darkkis

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 15:02

It's funny how some are so desperate to get rid of pirellis that they have started looking for old news against Pirelli. :rotfl:

#14 RaikkonenZn

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 15:08

i don't want tyre competition....whoever supplying,be it Michillin,Brindgestone or Perelli,there should be one supplier....tyre war is the last thing i want in F1....


:up: - I hated the tyre wars at times because it brought in too many variables that could have affected race results outside of driver/car ability! I remember the Michelin graining at one point and how all of a sudden a couple of laps into the race they'd become quick but by that time Schumi on his Bridgestones would be gone into the distance! Then there was 2005!

#15 Bartonz20let

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 15:09

... but you're fine with an aero war though :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


Didn't realise teams had aero suppliers?

#16 rhukkas

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 15:10

:up: - I hated the tyre wars at times because it brought in too many variables that could have affected race results outside of driver/car ability! I remember the Michelin graining at one point and how all of a sudden a couple of laps into the race they'd become quick but by that time Schumi on his Bridgestones would be gone into the distance! Then there was 2005!


But right now it's no different. The difference between a car that eats its tyres and one that doesn't is as great and significant as a car on BS and a car on Michelins.

Why not introduce spec wings and bodykits? Aero wars is the biggest differentiator of performance above tyres, engine and driver combined. But that's OK?

#17 rhukkas

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 15:11

Didn't realise teams had aero suppliers?


Each team is its own aero supplier! it's a much bigger war and differentiator than 2 or 3 different tyre manufacturers ever was.


#18 Risil

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 15:12

2. It should be obvious to anyone that if there was a tyre war, Pirelli would be making much more durable tyres.


But would they be quicker than Michelin's?

#19 Seanspeed

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 15:14

But right now it's no different. The difference between a car that eats its tyres and one that doesn't is as great and significant as a car on BS and a car on Michelins.

Why not introduce spec wings and bodykits? Aero wars is the biggest differentiator of performance above tyres, engine and driver combined. But that's OK?

Because tires aren't built by the F1 teams, while the aero packages are. Thats something they are in control of.

I was watching some of 2006 not too long ago and it did remind me of how ridiculous and unnecessary the tire wars were.

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#20 ZooL

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 15:18

Do we have to keep going over old ground.

Pirelli have designed a set of tyres asked for it by F1. They are to degrade quickly to improve the show.

1. Pirelli aren't doing this because they want to
2. It should be obvious to anyone that if there was a tyre war, Pirelli would be making much more durable tyres.

1. I personally have begun to doubt this now. Ask yourself a question, if Pirelli was doing such a good job last year and this, why is Todt going around looking for another tyre supplier?

2. So why are Pirelli so afraid of competition, they have said they will leave F1 if another tyre supplier comes in, they don't want to be in a competition.

The fact that Jean Todt is looking over his shoulder tells me all is not what it seems with Pirelli with their 'show' manifesto. If anything, it looks like its unwanted by Jean Todt, but they were the terms he had to agree to when nobody would give F1 free tyres after Bridgestone left.

#21 rhukkas

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 15:20

Because tires aren't built by the F1 teams, while the aero packages are. Thats something they are in control of.

I was watching some of 2006 not too long ago and it did remind me of how ridiculous and unnecessary the tire wars were.


F1 is ridiculous and unnecessary... I couldn't think of a more unnecessary thing in the world than flying around the world playing with toys. :)

F1 is at its core silly... not sensible. To deny that is to lie to itself and be something it isn't....

i have no idea what i am saying here haha...

#22 Risil

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 15:22

Because tires aren't built by the F1 teams, while the aero packages are. Thats something they are in control of.


I wonder if the likes of Bridgestone, Michelin, Firestone or Goodyear ever considered running a team themselves...

#23 SenorSjon

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 17:35

Do we have to keep going over old ground.

Pirelli have designed a set of tyres asked for it by F1. They are to degrade quickly to improve the show.

1. Pirelli aren't doing this because they want to
2. It should be obvious to anyone that if there was a tyre war, Pirelli would be making much more durable tyres.


Not quite. Pirelli was asked if they could replicate the race of Canada 2010 on other tracks. The chokotoff tires were their idea of making that happen.

#24 Jejking

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 17:38

Michelin has nothing to worry about if they re-enter the paddock. Pirelli has everything to lose.

#25 ApexMouse

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 17:38

Because the tyres in Canada 2010 were graining like nobody's business.

#26 Ali_G

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 17:58

2. So why are Pirelli so afraid of competition, they have said they will leave F1 if another tyre supplier comes in, they don't want to be in a competition.


Why would any company want to lose out on a monopoly ? Michelin entering is a risk to any profit Pirelli may be making from F1.

Also, this story has never been confirmed and is nothing but a rumour. Pirelli were asked to deliver a tyre to have high tyre wear and that's what they've done.

#27 ZooL

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:10

Why would any company want to lose out on a monopoly ? Michelin entering is a risk to any profit Pirelli may be making from F1.

Also, this story has never been confirmed and is nothing but a rumour. Pirelli were asked to deliver a tyre to have high tyre wear and that's what they've done.

Is that confirmed though or also just a rumour? Show me a source where FIA have asked Pirelli for a high degrading tyre.
You may be right, but technically I have never seen this from the FIA, so it too could be unconfirmed and just a rumour. I doubt the FIA asked for a difficult tyre to work with either with so called sweet spots.

For what its worth FIA seem incredibly reluctant to give Pirelli the contract.

Pirelli warns Formula 1 time is running out for new tyre deal
Pirelli 'ready' for new Formula 1 contract

It does tie in with Todt sniffing Michelin, and elsewhere probably, despite Pirelli begging for the contract they are not getting it. Yet. I am sure FIA are not too happy, so they will ask other tyre manufacturers to come to F1.

Edited by ZooL, 23 March 2013 - 18:12.


#28 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:11

Published: Wednesday, July 18, 2012


This, and auto123.com's source was "a German magazine" without further attribution.


#29 William Hunt

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:12

Pirelli is the best thing that happened in F1 in the past decade, they should stay at all cost.

#30 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:15

Not quite. Pirelli was asked if they could replicate the race of Canada 2010 on other tracks. The chokotoff tires were their idea of making that happen.


"replicate the race of Canada 2010" was what made the news. You can be quite sure that there is a many-page contract about what they need to supply, and what they intend to supply, signed by both parties.

Edit: Even if ZooL now is engaging in the Sakae defense of "I haven't seen the contract, so it's questionable that it exists". You haven't seen the Concorde Agreement either, is it questionable if F1 exists?

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 23 March 2013 - 18:18.


#31 ZooL

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:16

This, and auto123.com's source was "a German magazine" without further attribution.

It was Auto Bild - http://www.tyrepress....php?news=25812

#32 mattferg

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:18

But right now it's no different. The difference between a car that eats its tyres and one that doesn't is as great and significant as a car on BS and a car on Michelins.

Why not introduce spec wings and bodykits? Aero wars is the biggest differentiator of performance above tyres, engine and driver combined. But that's OK?


Because teams have control over the aero and can do what they like with it. Tyres they have no control over the actual tyre. Tyre wars can lead to a championship being decided from day 1, ie 2005. Even with a race where Renault and McLaren didn't race Ferrari still came third.

#33 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:18

It was Auto Bild - http://www.tyrepress....php?news=25812


:rotfl:
Edit: Do you have a login for Tyrepress? Just asking because the free article snipped that I see does not mention AutoBild at all.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 23 March 2013 - 18:20.


#34 Sakae

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:19

Just occurred to me if there is a tire-war on, which teams would volunteer to stay with Pirellis?

#35 Ali_G

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:19

Is that confirmed though or also just a rumour? Show me a source where FIA have asked Pirelli for a high degrading tyre.
You may be right, but technically I have never seen this from the FIA, so it too could be unconfirmed and just a rumour. I doubt the FIA asked for a difficult tyre to work with either with so called sweet spots.


You have to admit though, Pirelli aren't trying to make a fast/durable tyre and then are throwing out the present tyres to the grid. There's a reason why F1 is getting the present tyres and it has nothing to do with incompetence at Pirelli.

The reason Todt may want Michelin is that Pirelli is a pay contract. Michelin might be cheaper.

#36 mattferg

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:20

I wonder if the likes of Bridgestone, Michelin, Firestone or Goodyear ever considered running a team themselves...


Firestone is part of Bridgestone. The other big supplier is Continental - why don't they ask Conti or Goodyear if they're interested?

#37 ZooL

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:29

:rotfl:
Edit: Do you have a login for Tyrepress? Just asking because the free article snipped that I see does not mention AutoBild at all.

Pirelli’s current Formula One tyre supply agreement expires at the end of 2013, and while the Italian manufacturer would gladly sign up for a further three years a new supplier is not out of the question. And there is at least one senior individual within the sport who would gladly see former supplier Michelin make a comeback.

According to German publication Auto Bild, FIA president Jean Todt is trying to convince his fellow countrymen at Michelin to return to Formula One as tyre supplier. Under such an arrangement Michelin would replace Pirelli, as current rules forbid multiple tyre suppliers – thus denying the likes of Michael Schumacher a renewed “tyre war”.

While Todt hopes to say bonjour to Michelin in 2014, Pirelli is not yet ready to say arrivederci to F1 just yet. The tyre maker’s motorsport director, Paul Hembery, told Auto Bild that “if economic conditions are right, we want to remain (as F1 tyre supplier) in the medium-term. It is my job to ensure this.” Michelin has also previously stated it would only return if multiple tyre suppliers were once again permitted in Formula One, and according to Auto Bild the French company’s stance on the issue has not budged in recent times.




You have to admit though, Pirelli aren't trying to make a fast/durable tyre and then are throwing out the present tyres to the grid. There's a reason why F1 is getting the present tyres and it has nothing to do with incompetence at Pirelli.

The reason Todt may want Michelin is that Pirelli is a pay contract. Michelin might be cheaper.

- I think its incompetence on Pirelli's part that they seem unable to provide normal high degrading tyres, without the other unwanted characteristics such as delaminating, easily hitting the canvas, going off the cliff, not able to get the performance back after pushing hard for a few laps. When I look back in history, the good year was perfect for this. You could push hard, save tyre, push hard again. With Pirelli, push hard aaaaaand youuureeeee fiiiiniiiisssshhheeeeeeeeed. See Sutil.

No Pirelli give F1 the tyres for free. When the tender was out there were other manufacturers who submitted tenders but they said to F1 you have to pay for the tyres and the FIA/teams said no because they previously always have had tyres for free.

Edited by ZooL, 23 March 2013 - 18:33.


#38 dau

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:46

1. I personally have begun to doubt this now. Ask yourself a question, if Pirelli was doing such a good job last year and this, why is Todt going around looking for another tyre supplier?

2. So why are Pirelli so afraid of competition, they have said they will leave F1 if another tyre supplier comes in, they don't want to be in a competition.

The fact that Jean Todt is looking over his shoulder tells me all is not what it seems with Pirelli with their 'show' manifesto. If anything, it looks like its unwanted by Jean Todt, but they were the terms he had to agree to when nobody would give F1 free tyres after Bridgestone left.

1. It wouldn't be surprising if he was looking for other tyre suppliers just to ensure to get the best deal possible. That being said, there has been no source suggesting he approached Michelin other than that half-year old article you just dug up, which traces back to some "exclusive information" of a German sports tabloid.

2. Tyre wars are expensive and Pirelli is a much smaller company compared to Michelin or Bridgestone.

#39 JeanClaude

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:51

No Pirelli give F1 the tyres for free. When the tender was out there were other manufacturers who submitted tenders but they said to F1 you have to pay for the tyres and the FIA/teams said no because they previously always have had tyres for free.

I am sorry while I can barely endure you regurgitating 9 month old "news" for an obvious agenda, I won't let you get away with blatant lies.

Pirelli does NOT give the tyres away for free

Pirelli's deal, which sees teams pay a figure in the region of $3M a year for its rubber, "

http://www.sportsbus...Pirelli-F1.aspx

Can't see that there's a FIA tender for tyres either currently so all signs are Pirelli will extend :up:

JC

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#40 BoschKurve

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:53

Firestone is part of Bridgestone. The other big supplier is Continental - why don't they ask Conti or Goodyear if they're interested?


Regarding Goodyear....

http://www.grandprix...ft/ft00305.html

#41 mattferg

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 18:53

- I think its incompetence on Pirelli's part that they seem unable to provide normal high degrading tyres, without the other unwanted characteristics such as delaminating, easily hitting the canvas, going off the cliff, not able to get the performance back after pushing hard for a few laps. When I look back in history, the good year was perfect for this. You could push hard, save tyre, push hard again. With Pirelli, push hard aaaaaand youuureeeee fiiiiniiiisssshhheeeeeeeeed. See Sutil.

No Pirelli give F1 the tyres for free. When the tender was out there were other manufacturers who submitted tenders but they said to F1 you have to pay for the tyres and the FIA/teams said no because they previously always have had tyres for free.


It wasn't Sutil pushing that ruined his SSs, it's that the SSs couldn't last 10 laps even nursing and should've never been at Melbourne.

#42 Risil

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 19:00

Firestone is part of Bridgestone. The other big supplier is Continental - why don't they ask Conti or Goodyear if they're interested?


I'm aware Firestone is part of Bridgestone! I was thinking about why it's never been done in F1, not why no one does it right now.

From the top of my head I can think of Firestone's Patrick Racing CART entry in 1995, a Porsche 962 in the '80s run by BF Goodrich, and some Bridgestone race bikes from the '60 (one of them won a support race at Daytona in 1966). Don't think the bigger manufacturers liked those inconveniently quick motorcycles -- allegedly they suggested to Bridgestone that they might start fitting other tyres onto their road bikes as standard. Perhaps that's the reason we never saw a Michelin F1 team.

#43 Clatter

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 20:09

Pirelli don't want to compete in a tyre competition.
Michelin only want to come back to competition.

From what I've read elsewhere FIA are reluctanct to give Pirelli a new contract for 2014 and Pirelli are saying they want a contract now because its getting too late.

I think Jean Todt is not happy with Pirelli, thats why he's asking Michelin to come back.


Where have they said this?


#44 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 20:30

Where have they said this?


They haven't as far as I have seen, all they said is that it would be a very different proposition. The latest quotes on this are in my Hembery interview translation in the "Merc and RBwant 2012 tyres back" thread