49 replies to this topic

[Ev0lutionz]

19 years ago, on this day, at the San Marino Grand Prix, we lost these two beloved drivers. Sad sad day for Motorsport.

[akshay380]

RIP.

[03011969]

It's Ratzenberger.

And he died the day before, 30th April.

Edited by 3011969, 01 May 2013 - 06:12.

[Szoelloe]

19 years ago, on this day, at the San Marino Grand Prix, we lost these two beloved drivers. Sad sad day for Motorsport.

Congratulations on your spelling skills, very decent thread title.

[aditya-now]

Yalla has put up a very fitting tribute at Remembering Ayrton

Enjoy the photos and the utterings.

As Ayrton said, nada pode me separar do amor de Deus!

[Ev0lutionz]

Congratulations on your spelling skills, very decent thread title.

I just realized it. Oh dear. How to change the title?

[babbel]

I just realized it. Oh dear. How to change the title?

Just changed it for you

[Longtimefan]

Actually 19 years ago yesterday we lost Roland.

Seems he is an afterthought to some after Ayrton, but his loss is no less important imo.
Horrific day, I remember it like it was yesterday, we are very lucky we didn't lose three that weekend.

[pRy]

Antti Kalhola re-released his 44 minute Senna video remastered:

[10e10]

R.I.P.

[Nobody]

1

[holiday]

I still remember how I looked up the bad news in the evening on the video text and how my best friend who had watched the race commented how Michael had pushed Ayrton over the limit.

[KTF1]

They died doing what they loved. R.I.P Ayrton and Roland.

Edited by KTF1, 01 May 2013 - 13:12.

[Longtimefan]

I still remember how I looked up the bad news in the evening on the video text and how my best friend who had watched the race commented how Michael had pushed Ayrton over the limit.

Can't we just remember the two lives lost without bringing this crap in here?

[SophieB]

The worst of weekends.

I too always feel for the loved ones of Roland Ratzenberger. We all lost (arguably) the very greatest of them all, and possibly even our personal hero. But to their families, the loss must have been the same. The family of Roland cannot have loved him less for not being a champion and yet they had to deal, on top of everything else, the sport basically showing by its collective absence from his funeral, that he just wasn't as important.

I will always, therefore, think very kindly both of Gerhard Berger and Johnny Herbert as the only drivers who attended the funerals of both drivers.

[Sin]

The horrible weekend that happened in Imola, happened 5 years before I saw my first F1 race. But when I started watching F1 again in 2011 and put more passion into it I saw and read about the tragedy.

Two great men died that weekend, since then probably alot thanks to them security has improved alot in F1.

They lived for their dream and died for their dream as so many before them. I hope they doing well in heaven now if it exists! But Wherever they are, they live on in the memories of many people.

RIP

[holiday]

I will always, therefore, think very kindly both of Gerhard Berger and Johnny Herbert as the only drivers who attended the funerals of both drivers.

You are sure of this? I wasn't aware that the decency of the colleagues was spread so unevenly.

[SophieB]

You are sure of this? I wasn't aware that the decency of the colleagues was spread so unevenly.

Yes, I am fairly sure. Pretty sure I have read interviews of both Johnny Herbert and Gerhard Berger down the years in which they have remarked on this. If other people in the sport attended both funerals, I would love to learn of it so I can mentally add a gold star to my impression of them.

edited to add: Johnny Herbert talking to the Independent in 2001:

"I've been to a few funerals down the years, Roland (Ratzenberger), who was a good friend, and Ayrton and Jeff Krosnoff in the States. His car got caught in the wire fence round the track and broke in two."

Berger was a personal friend of both Senna and Ratzenberger and indeed had driven down to Imola with Roland, according to Richard Williams' book on Senna.

Edited by SophieB, 01 May 2013 - 14:40.

[BoschKurve]

You are sure of this? I wasn't aware that the decency of the colleagues was spread so unevenly.

Most of the drivers felt it would be too difficult to make both funerals.

[BoschKurve]

Berger had this to say about Ayrton, it's very touching.

My last real memory of Ayrton is of him turning around to smile at me on the grid, as the drivers' names were called out on the loudspeakers and the San Marino crowd cheered. It was the smile of a friend who was pleased to see the people's support and love for me. That is the last thing I remember of him. -Gerhard Berger

[Craven Morehead]

Rest in peace Ayrton & Roland. 19 years already, my how the time flies..

[molive]

A nice interview for Warmup (Brazilian digital mag) with Michael Andretti, where he says that one of the few good things from his short spell in F1 was meeting and becoming friends with Senna:

Some parts:

"he was a great guy, a great teamate and a big supporter".

"...he was very good with me, very open, he would help me everytime I asked something".

"When I was released from McLaren he called the press and told them how unfairly I was treated, that's the type of guy he was and thats the kind of relationship we had".


RIP Ayrton and Roland.

[BoschKurve]

A nice interview for Warmup (Brazilian digital mag) with Michael Andretti, where he says that one of the few good things from his short spell in F1 was meeting and becoming friends with Senna:

Some parts:

"he was a great guy, a great teamate and a big supporter".

"...he was very good with me, very open, he would help me everytime I asked something".

"When I was released from McLaren he called the press and told them how unfairly I was treated, that's the type of guy he was and thats the kind of relationship we had".


RIP Ayrton and Roland.

Thanks for sharing that molive.

So much of the press surrounding Michael Andretti's time at McLaren is incredibly negative. That might be the first positive thing I've even heard from him about his brief stint in F1.

[SophieB]

Thanks for sharing that molive.

So much of the press surrounding Michael Andretti's time at McLaren is incredibly negative. That might be the first positive thing I've even heard from him about his brief stint in F1.

I agree with all of this. I am pleased to discover he took any positive memories from is time with the team. I always felt a little sorry for Andretti. I believed he was truly out of his depth but that the team also took out some general frustrations on him because he was a handy scapegoat. I am glad that Ayrton showed him kindness.

Elsewhere, Gerald Donaldson reprinted a wonderful profile/interview with Ayrton that I'd never read before.

http://www.f1speedwr...rton-senna.html

After all, the public are interested in the people. OK, they follow the racing and the fighting on the circuit, but the racing and the fighting are done by people: the drivers. They are the ones that by their personality, by their character, by their instinct, end up making the show boring or exciting. That is what gives the show some shine or some darkness. People are interested all about the driver that is in the car. The way he looks, not only physically, but the way he looks through his eyes, the way he speaks, by his voice being soft, sharp. The way he makes his answers, the contents of his answers, the enthusiasm he passes on, the instincts of fighting, all those things.

And we are all different. Therefore what holds people, what gets people and holds them in admiring you, is what you are. Not just because you win. They are after winners of course, and there are several winners in a season. But there are maybe one or two that really shine and the rest are just winners. There is a difference between a true champion and just another champion, The true champion who shines is one who people love to see, love to know, love to think about and to be with in their minds.

On top of being possibly the best of all drivers, Senna understood and could articulate the human appeal of F1, of sport even, better than even the finest and most thoughtful of the professional sports writers.

[Kyo]

I remember Senna saying that for him the ideal driver is the one that could combine Gilles boldness and brilliantness with Lauda's professionalisms and dedication. I believe he managed to do that.

RIP

[Craven Morehead]

A nice interview for Warmup (Brazilian digital mag) with Michael Andretti, where he says that one of the few good things from his short spell in F1 was meeting and becoming friends with Senna:

Some parts:

"he was a great guy, a great teamate and a big supporter".

"...he was very good with me, very open, he would help me everytime I asked something".

"When I was released from McLaren he called the press and told them how unfairly I was treated, that's the type of guy he was and thats the kind of relationship we had".


RIP Ayrton and Roland.

Geat stuff. Thanks for that Molive, I appreciate the insight.

[Jimisgod]

I still remember how I looked up the bad news in the evening on the video text and how my best friend who had watched the race commented how Michael had pushed Ayrton over the limit.

We can do without that.

R.I.P.

I think the story of Roland is actually quite interesting. Wasn't he fairly old for an F1 driver, with a long career of touring cars behind him?

[Dolph]

We can do without that.

R.I.P.

I think the story of Roland is actually quite interesting. Wasn't he fairly old for an F1 driver, with a long career of touring cars behind him?

Sports cars as well

[Sakae]

I watched that race on my TV; there was a lot of confusion in a broadcast booth, as words had to be weighted carefully. Terrible day for racing, terrible day for their families, and terrible day for all of us, loosing someone special and hopeful. Schumacher was devastated once he was briefed; there was very little doubt about that.
Story about Senna's mastery of his craft of course grew ever since and every time it was told. Rest is however history. I was Prost's fan, but I have respected Ayrton for his dedication, and focus. In certain way his posthumously was one of the last cases of risky era, as F1 racing cars safety campaign took off.

Edited by Sakae, 02 May 2013 - 20:43.

[Linther]

Sports cars as well

He was scheduled for the Le Mans 24h race that year, driving a Toyota. Toyota had his Name on the car during the race and they were talking about him frequently during interviews. Eddie Irvine managed to grab 2nd place in this car with a banzai move into the Ford Chicane in the penultimate lap. It was something like a Tribute to Roland who had been with the Team for some time.

[One]

R.I.P.

Let us keep it in mind that this cold happen at any time also in a future.

[Myrvold]

Sports cars as well

That was more normal during those days though. Brundle, Frentzen, Wendlinger, Schumacher (and I guess a whole lot of other drivers as well) came from, or had stints in the World Champ.

[Dolph]

That was more normal during those days though. Brundle, Frentzen, Wendlinger, Schumacher (and I guess a whole lot of other drivers as well) came from, or had stints in the World Champ.

I thought that the guys retired/unsuccesful from F1 were doing WSC. Except for Frentzen, Wendlinger, Schumacher who were all Merc proteges.

[Dolph]

He was scheduled for the Le Mans 24h race that year, driving a Toyota. Toyota had his Name on the car during the race and they were talking about him frequently during interviews. Eddie Irvine managed to grab 2nd place in this car with a banzai move into the Ford Chicane in the penultimate lap. It was something like a Tribute to Roland who had been with the Team for some time.

The car was close to winning, as I remember, but a late gearbox gremlin cost them

[Victor_RO]

I thought that the guys retired/unsuccesful from F1 were doing WSC. Except for Frentzen, Wendlinger, Schumacher who were all Merc proteges.

Not necessarily, in the 1980s there were several drivers who basically had parallel careers in both F1 and Group C.

The car was close to winning, as I remember, but a late gearbox gremlin cost them

Correct, gear linkage broke with 90 minutes to go, Jeff Krosnoff managed to stick the damn thing in 3rd gear from the gearbox end and got the car back to the pits, they replaced the gear linkage and then Irvine went on a tear and passed one of the Dauer Porsches for 2nd place at the last corner on the penultimate lap.

[BoschKurve]

Not necessarily, in the 1980s there were several drivers who basically had parallel careers in both F1 and Group C.

Didn't the F1 teams suddenly change their minds on drivers doing both at the same time after Stefan Bellof was killed?

[Victor_RO]

Didn't the F1 teams suddenly change their minds on drivers doing both at the same time after Stefan Bellof was killed?

Not exactly sure, but people like Derek Warwick, Jonathan Palmer, Eddie Cheever et al did maintain parallel F1 and WSPC careers into the late 1980s. As Roland could have done in '94. The thing is also that Le Mans started clashing more frequently with F1 races over the years.

[DanardiF1]

I remember Senna saying that for him the ideal driver is the one that could combine Gilles boldness and brilliantness with Lauda's professionalisms and dedication. I believe he managed to do that.

RIP

And knowing Senna's understated 'arrogance' (let's call it self-belief with an edge) he probably said it knowing fully well that he fitted that assertion!

[DanardiF1]

R.I.P.

Let us keep it in mind that this cold happen at any time also in a future.

A very good point. Let's not also forget that these two guys were only the last drivers to die in F1... we've lost a lot since, including some big names and some not-so-big ones...

People like Dan Wheldon, Michele Alboreto, Marco Simoncelli, Greg Moore and others shouldn't be forgotten too.

RIP to all.

[Watkins74]

Then at the very next race Karl Wendlinger crashes and is left in a coma.

I'd rather forget that season. It was a nightmare.

[KTF1]

A very good point. Let's not also forget that these two guys were only the last drivers to die in F1... we've lost a lot since, including some big names and some not-so-big ones...

People like Dan Wheldon, Michele Alboreto, Marco Simoncelli, Greg Moore and others shouldn't be forgotten too.

RIP to all.

Well said And not forgetting the marshalls killed too

[jstrains]

It would be great to see him racing at least once... R.I.P.

[Linther]

Jeff Krosnoff managed to stick the damn thing in 3rd gear from the gearbox end ...

Yep, he did it by hand right at the gearbox, kneeling behind the car on the wrong side of the pitwall on the Start/Finish straight.

Edited by Linther, 03 May 2013 - 10:50.

[Imperial]

I will always, therefore, think very kindly both of Gerhard Berger and Johnny Herbert as the only drivers who attended the funerals of both drivers.

I'm not sure if Max Mosley attended both (I'd always thought they were the same day to be honest, so didn't expect anyone to attend both), however he did go to Roland's on the basis that he assumed hardly anyone else from the F1 community would bother. He was more or less correct.

[SophieB]

I'm not sure if Max Mosley attended both (I'd always thought they were the same day to be honest, so didn't expect anyone to attend both), however he did go to Roland's on the basis that he assumed hardly anyone else from the F1 community would bother. He was more or less correct.

Every biography of Ayrton Senna that I've read claims that Ayrton's family specifically made it very clear to both Mosley and Ecclestone that they would NOT be welcome at his funeral. Given this, Mosley's much quoted speech about choosing to attend the less high profile funeral instead out of a sense of duty is rather misleading of him.

Ecclestone, all round class act that he is, just showed up to Ayrton's funeral anyway because to hell with anybody's wishes but his own.

[Imperial]

Every biography of Ayrton Senna that I've read claims that Ayrton's family specifically made it very clear to both Mosley and Ecclestone that they would NOT be welcome at his funeral. Given this, Mosley's much quoted speech about choosing to attend the less high profile funeral instead out of a sense of duty is rather misleading of him.

Ecclestone, all round class act that he is, just showed up to Ayrton's funeral anyway because to hell with anybody's wishes but his own.

I've read a few Aytron bio's and not come across that before, that Max wasn't welcome.

I've never heard that they were on anything less than speaking terms to be honest, certainly never heard of anything so serious that his family expressed a wish for him not to attend. Same for Bernie.

I know Max trots out the line about the card he got from Ayrton for Chrismas 1993 and never heard of any denial or protestation from the Senna family. Surely exchanging Christmas cards a few months before his death, albeit apparently writing to him in the card about banning traction control, was a sign that all was more or less between the two.

Very interesting.

[SophieB]

I've read a few Aytron bio's and not come across that before, that Max wasn't welcome.

I've never heard that they were on anything less than speaking terms to be honest, certainly never heard of anything so serious that his family expressed a wish for him not to attend. Same for Bernie.

I know Max trots out the line about the card he got from Ayrton for Chrismas 1993 and never heard of any denial or protestation from the Senna family. Surely exchanging Christmas cards a few months before his death, albeit apparently writing to him in the card about banning traction control, was a sign that all was more or less between the two.

Very interesting.

I don't think it would have been about whether Max and Ayrton were on good terms, it was about what Ayrton's family thought. In their grief, they blamed the sport for their loved one's death. Ayrton's brother Leonardo was angrily denouncing them on the day of the funeral.

However, it looks like I might have done Bernie an injustice. On re-checking at least one book, he showed up on Brazil with the intention of attending but changed his plans at the last moment in response to the local strong feelings.

[Imperial]

I don't think it would have been about whether Max and Ayrton were on good terms, it was about what Ayrton's family thought. In their grief, they blamed the sport for their loved one's death. Ayrton's brother Leonardo was angrily denouncing them on the day of the funeral.

However, it looks like I might have done Bernie an injustice. On re-checking at least one book, he showed up on Brazil with the intention of attending but changed his plans at the last moment in response to the local strong feelings.

I'll bow down to you on this as it's some time since I read about Ayrton and time may be influencing my memory of events.

I maybe put too much trust into what Max says as I have, after all, always thought of him as a really nice guy!

[SophieB]

Well, I started doubting my own memory so I had a proper look and was in fact editing in this before I saw your post:

"Leonardo had whipped up a frenzy of anti-FIA, anti-Ecclestone and anti-Mosley fervour. He was almost irrational in hs hatred. Leonardo blamed the authorities outright for his brother's death and said that Ecclestone or Mosley would not be welcome at the funeral. Mosley decided not to come but Ecclestone wished to say goodbye to his friend."

- "The Life of Senna" by Tom Rubython, paperback edition, p.425

I think it seems as clear as it could be that Max was given the message his appearance would have been very much against family wishes.

[skid solo]

The Day The Music Died..

I remember as I watched Ayrton pull on his fire proof balaclava thinking "Be careful out there today. After Barrichello's accident and then Ratzenberger's death, there was a sense that weekend that everything that could go wrong would go wrong. Then almost immediately, we had the start line accident injuring people in the crowd. Then they got underway a second time and before we knew it the dreadful scene of Ayrton's car sliding sideways with his head tilted lifeless to the side. Even before the car had come to a stop I remember saying out loud; "Not Ayrton Too". Then he seemed to sigh and for a moment I thought he was ok. I watched for a few more minutes, then just got up, turned off the TV and left the house deeply saddened. I didn't watch another GP till round 12 in Monza.