169 replies to this topic

[arttidesco]

fausto, on Jun 18 2013, 19:51, said:

http://astonmartins.com/car/amr-2/

Thanks Fausto

[Graham Clayton]

ensign14, on 18 May 2013 - 14:04, said:

 Also the Ceekar, Bardon, Harrier and Lotec, but they had a bit more success.

 

 

Here is some information on the Ceekar that may be of interest:

 

http://www.historywe...Cars/Ceekar.htm

[Nick Savage]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the Pegaso yet....

Nick

[Sharman]

....or the Marina driven by Jimmy Blumer, so called because the V8 RR power unit was derived from a RR marine application engine. RR got quite shirty about it at the time

[Glengavel]

Sharman, on 10 Mar 2014 - 09:53, said:

....or the Marina driven by Jimmy Blumer, so called because the V8 RR power unit was derived from a RR marine application engine. RR got quite shirty about it at the time

 

Hopefully not based on the Morris Marina...

[Sharman]

Glengavel, on 10 Mar 2014 - 13:28, said:

Hopefully not based on the Morris Marina...

 

 my post is quite explicit, it has nothing to do with BMC or BL, the only real connection between that corporation and RR was the Princess with a RR engine but that was derived from a military application rather than a marine source

Edited by Sharman, 10 March 2014 - 22:16.

[ensign14]

One Marina coming up...

 

[Sharman]

ensign14, on 10 Mar 2014 - 22:41, said:

One Marina coming up...

 

Complete with RR Logo, thank you Ensign. The chap with whom I was associated (in a motor racing sense) at that time also employed a talented designer/builder. Along with my full time employment with Hertz I was asked to find a shunted Roller from which to extract the engine. They don't seem to have that sort of accident and  anyway we were asked to cease and desist by RR.

[Glengavel]

Sharman, on 10 Mar 2014 - 22:14, said:

 

Glengavel, on 10 Mar 2014 - 13:28, said:

Hopefully not based on the Morris Marina...

 

 my post is quite explicit, it has nothing to do with BMC or BL, the only real connection between that corporation and RR was the Princess with a RR engine but that was derived from a military application rather than a marine source

 

 

I'll get my coat.

[LordAston]

Hello to all who posted. Idea is now well and truly in the pits as due to serious medical problems I have had to give up on the idea. Anyone who would like to take it over has my blessing.

[FlatEight]

Not mentioned (I think): Mirage M6 Coupe (Le Mans '73 practice, never ran a race). Ford C100 Mk1 (outlawed before it ran?).

[Lee Nicolle]

Sharman, on 11 Mar 2014 - 07:22, said:

Complete with RR Logo, thank you Ensign. The chap with whom I was associated (in a motor racing sense) at that time also employed a talented designer/builder. Along with my full time employment with Hertz I was asked to find a shunted Roller from which to extract the engine. They don't seem to have that sort of accident and  anyway we were asked to cease and desist by RR.

The only Roller engine I have seen in bits would not make a great race engine. A big bulky low revver designed to be very torquey, quiet and smooth. Not the atributes required for a racecar.

[ensign14]

For the sake of completeness...

 

 

...a side-on shot of the Marina, as it was in March 2014.

[Duc-Man]

Here is one. Dome RC 82: never finished a race.

 

 

 

Edited by Duc-Man, 08 January 2015 - 14:58.

[Duc-Man]

And another one:

http://www.speedhunt...kspeed-calibra/

[fbarrett]

Two words: Maxton Rollerskate.

[doc knutsen]

fausto, on 22 May 2013 - 21:45, said:

The Cheek competed in some local races, its designer/builder used to write here, as Doc Knudsen, IIRC...a couple or more from Italy are two stepsisters, the Panther (styled by Bertone, designed by Giorgio Valentini, technically impressive) and the DFV-powered Mystere. Then, years later, the DFV/DFL Raymond (they built the chassis, someone reported, some months ago, when Rovigno Rimondi, mr. Raymond, died that he was completing the car. In 1983 Ettore Bogani, from Florence, had plans to build a turbo BMW straight four powered C2 car. Another project came from Germany, the MH Mennella C2 (1984).

 

Sorry about entering this thread late, never saw it last year...but yes, the Cheek C288 ran in Scandinavia in 1990 through 1995, powered by a Hart 420R  for a while, after the original 1800 BDT proved too quick for the Swedes (victory at Kinnekulle, lap record at Mantorp Park) and they made us run with a ridiculusly small inlet restrictor. Having developed it on the tiniest of shoestrings, we ran two races in the Interserie. In 1994, Alf Eng trounced the Gr C opposition at the Swedish round at Anderstorp, and finished, i seem to remember, fourth overall, after three converted F1 and F3000 s/seaters.In 1995, it ran very well in Scandinavian races, in the hands of ex-Scandinavian F3 runner-up Andre Westby. We then took in the Interserie round at Donington, Alf Eng driving. In wet qualifying, he got the right-hand rear wheel up on the kerb exiting the chicane...the car swapped ends, and tried to demolish the pit wall. The pit wall won.

Interestingly, the car went through this impromptu crash test exactly as I had designed it to do, in that all the RH suspension arms got squashed, while the aluminium honeycomb tub did not get damaged at all (the car was in 3rd when it crashed). Subsequently, the car has been re-built with new Kevlar/vinylester body panels, and all new wishbones. The lovely BDT engine, however, i fitted to a 1990 Reynard F3000chassis and we did some BOSS races with that, ending with the engine melting itself most comprehensively at Oulton Park, after a coolant leak and subsequent rising temperatures were not heeded by the driver.

The C2 car has sat in my workshop, ready to be assembled, for quite a few years now. It is, of course, engine-less, so despite the lure of Historic Group C racing, it is likely to remain that way for the time being.

Full story, pics and some video of the car at www.shag.no

[milestone 11]

This Mirage M12 sold at auction Monaco GP weekend.

[Duc-Man]

Two more:

Konrad Lamborghini KM11

Lamborghini Countach QV

 

Does anybody know where they are now?

[Lee Nicolle]

Sharman, on 11 Mar 2014 - 07:22, said:

Complete with RR Logo, thank you Ensign. The chap with whom I was associated (in a motor racing sense) at that time also employed a talented designer/builder. Along with my full time employment with Hertz I was asked to find a shunted Roller from which to extract the engine. They don't seem to have that sort of accident and  anyway we were asked to cease and desist by RR.

What no crate engines!

[Sharman]

Lee Nicolle, on 08 Jan 2015 - 21:18, said:

Lee Nicolle, on 08 Jan 2015 - 22:18, said:

What no crate engines!

None at all. and while we're at it referring to your earlier post, a lot of engines used in racing (you note that I do not say racing engines) come from the most unpromising sources. A good engineer can extract power from anything, whether it is competitive power is another matter. What the thinking was behind the Roller was that the starting money would be better than using a Chevvy or Ford (both from production lazy low revvers for the Yank Tank market).

[bradbury west]

With a bore of 104mm and stroke of 91mm the basics are not too pessimistic for potential revs. Moreover a low rev, high torque worked well enough for AU pre WW2. Was the engine for the Marina originally a marine unit?
Roger Lund

[La Sarthe]

Duc-Man, on 08 Jan 2015 - 14:24, said:

Two more:

Konrad Lamborghini KM11

Lamborghini Countach QV

 

Does anybody know where they are now?

Although the 'Lamborghini' (Tiga) used to be in the Haynes museum at Sparkford, I last saw reference to it with a Japanese owner (2010-ish). No idea on the Konrad I'm afraid.

[Sharman]

bradbury west, on 09 Jan 2015 - 17:31, said:

bradbury west, on 09 Jan 2015 - 18:31, said:

With a bore of 104mm and stroke of 91mm the basics are not too pessimistic for potential revs. Moreover a low rev, high torque worked well enough for AU pre WW2. Was the engine for the Marina originally a marine unit?
Roger Lund

Yes it was Roger, hence the name. Les Redmond thought it would work.

[Lee Nicolle]

Sharman, on 09 Jan 2015 - 16:41, said:

None at all. and while we're at it referring to your earlier post, a lot of engines used in racing (you note that I do not say racing engines) come from the most unpromising sources. A good engineer can extract power from anything, whether it is competitive power is another matter. What the thinking was behind the Roller was that the starting money would be better than using a Chevvy or Ford (both from production lazy low revvers for the Yank Tank market).

For mine start money [wouldnt that have been nice] would be based on performance and reliability not engine brand. And the costs would have been prohibitive too to run that style of engine. You cannot go to the local parts store for a set of rings, bearings and gaskets. Yet alone a set of race pistons, rings and bearings. Nor buy a race cam from Crane etc. Yet alone a decent intake, distributor and the like.

As I saids before the only roller engine I have seen in bits was a total slugger and unsuited for high RPM.

A Chev for instance is far better suited [though far more poorly machined from the factory] And you can make a few calls and build a race engine to your budget. And by some simple research find all the best factory bits, heads, cranks, rods etc for the budget engine. Or go buy all the best bits for a big dollar engine.

And being a fairly small and light engine it fits in places that the big lump of Roller will not.

The Rolls engine is a very good piece for a 2 tonne limo, and probably a largish boat too. But not for a racing car. 

And the Marine version would be even more a torquey  low rpm slugger than the car engine. The whole design would be based on torque, not horsepower.

[Catalina Park]

I don't think you realise Lee that the Rolls Royce marine motor is actually a "crate engine".
They were built and sold as spec engines, you just rang the agent and ordered one, it was delivered in a crate.
You knew exactly what you were getting by reading the specification sheet.

[Lee Nicolle]

Catalina Park, on 10 Jan 2015 - 06:26, said:

I don't think you realise Lee that the Rolls Royce marine motor is actually a "crate engine".
They were built and sold as spec engines, you just rang the agent and ordered one, it was delivered in a crate.
You knew exactly what you were getting by reading the specification sheet.

Yeah,, you were getting a torquey low rpm engine ideally suited to the application. Not an engine suited for motorsport

[just me again]

With numberplates!
You Will find the Right Lane if you sighted that car i your rear mirror on the autobahn

Bjørn

Duc-Man, on 24 Apr 2014 - 12:15, said:

Here is one. Dome RC 82: never finished a race.

[Sharman]

Lee Nicolle, on 10 Jan 2015 - 13:56, said:

Lee Nicolle, on 10 Jan 2015 - 14:56, said:

Yeah,, you were getting a torquey low rpm engine ideally suited to the application. Not an engine suited for motorsport

Which is why I was looking for an automotive application. Do keep up.

[GMACKIE]

I suppose an engine used to drive a fire pump would never have been considered for Sports Car racing, Lee.....let alone for Grand Prix racing.

[kayemod]

GMACKIE, on 10 Jan 2015 - 20:09, said:

I suppose an engine used to drive a fire pump would never have been considered for Sports Car racing, Lee.....let alone for Grand Prix racing.

 

A very good point, and to get back to reality on the Marina Rolls Royce, just how competitive was it? I have dim memories of it racing against old McLarens and the like, and it wasn't outclassed by any means.

[Graham Clayton]

One from the early 1960's, the Gitane GT designed by Gordon Folwell. The car was entered in the 1-litre class (it was powered by an 887cc engine) at Le Mans in 1962, as well as the Nurburgring 1000 kms and the Trophée d'Auvergne, but failed to appear at any of the three races.

 

 

Edited by Graham Clayton, 13 September 2016 - 02:42.

[RCH]

Couple of comments. First of all am I the only person in the world to remember reading somewhere that the BRM CanAm project was originally intended to be powered by Rolls Royce engines?

Secondly does anyone remember an Aston powered Group C car built by Dave Preece? I'm sure I remember looking for it in the Silverstone 1000Kms. paddock one year and finding nothing but a pile of parts.

[sabrejet]

The Preece Aston Gp C car did run: I'm sure it was crashed/trashed at (Silverstone?) after a rear suspension/bodywork failure? Lots of flat-panel bodywork but not unattractive.

[Sharman]

A sole example of the Moorland was built, still alive and living in the USA I believe

[Cynic2]

I attended the US press announcement of the Allard at the Atlanta Motor Speedway -- the NASCAR roval, not Road Atlanta.  I cannot remember the year, but it was when IMSA raced there after some sort of disagreement with Road Atlanta.  (I think paid attendance for the race was well into double digits.)

 

I talked to some of the crew about the car, and asked about an engine change and/or gear ratio changes.  An engine change required something like 14 hours, and I think changing gear ratios was about the same.  Basically the car had to be unbuilt to get to anything.  Can't imagine why it failed.

 

I took quite a few photos, but only have one scanned.  If I can figure how to post it I'll add it to the thread.

 

 

Edited by Cynic2, 16 September 2016 - 22:21.

[D-Type]

Did the 2-litre Lotus Elite ever race?

[Sharman]

Don't think it did, Innes Ireland declined to race it at Le mans and I saw it when David Buxton had it at Oulton when it didn't even practice

[bradbury west]

Indeed it did not. Innes Ireland felt the car was inherently unsafe, various ideas postulated at the time and certainly by those with 20/20 hindsight.... and after Sieff's terrible crash in another Elite in practice, II had a very bad feeling about the run of deaths in Lotuses that year and asked Sir John Whitmore if he could borrow his Minivan to go home in. Which he did, back to London, leaving Sir John with no co driver. To this day, or at least when I heard him say so at Michael Oliver's le Mans Legends weekend at Eynsham some years back, John Whitmore is adamant that Ireland saved his life in all probability, and the prospect of the alternative made him incline thus even more. The story only serves to raise both drivers even higher in my esteem.
Perhaps others, Michael Oliver et al, may recall Sir John's story. Certainly other points made in his keynote speech after dinner were memorable.
As an aside, it is worth noting I feel, that another of the speakers was the now recently deceased Peter Riley. His views and memories were superb for their entertainment and frankness, and his humour was wonderful. I believe it was only his developing deafness which precluded him from doing more after dinner stuff. He was a talented raconteur.
Roger Lund

[GreenMachine]

Cynic2, on 16 Sept 2016 - 21:37, said:

I attended the US press announcement of the Allard at the Atlanta Motor Speedway -- the NASCAR roval, not Road Atlanta.  I cannot remember the year, but it was when IMSA raced there after some sort of disagreement with Road Atlanta.  (I think paid attendance for the race was well into double digits.)
 
I talked to some of the crew about the car, and asked about an engine change and/or gear ratio changes.  An engine change required something like 14 hours, and I think changing gear ratios was about the same.  Basically the car had to be unbuilt to get to anything.  Can't imagine why it failed.
 
I took quite a few photos, but only have one scanned.  If I can figure how to post it I'll add it to the thread.

I saw it at the FoS in 2007. I think it attempted a run on the Friday, probably got a few hundred metres before it had to be pushed back ... nice looking though.

[Sharman]

BRM revival??

[group7]

 what about the Cacador de Estrelas ? don't know if you could call it a sports car. now this is bizarre   not good with the portuguese  language, but from what I can gather, tube frame, corvette 5.7ltr V8, some Jaguar parts. inspired by the F 105 Starfighter.

 

https://areadeescape...or-de-estrelas/

 

 

 

some other information in this thread from 2003.

 

http://forums.autosp...as#entry1167329

Edited by group7, 20 September 2016 - 02:54.

[hatrat]

Sharman, on 16 Sept 2016 - 20:49, said:

A sole example of the Moorland was built, still alive and living in the USA I believe

There was a Mk1 and Mk2 version of the Moorland Formula Junior and a Moorland Climax Sports Car - see details in the article on the designer Les Redmond at :   http://www.hrscc.co.nz/gemini2.html

[Sharman]

hatrat, on 20 Sept 2016 - 12:19, said:

There was a Mk1 and Mk2 version of the Moorland Formula Junior and a Moorland Climax Sports Car - see details in the article on the designer Les Redmond at :   http://www.hrscc.co.nz/gemini2.html

Yes, just one example of the sports car which is still being raced in the N/E USA

[ensign14]

The Moorland FJ was slightly crunched at Goodwood a couple of years back:

 

[Sharman]

ensign14, on 20 Sept 2016 - 13:05, said:

The Moorland FJ was slightly crunched at Goodwood a couple of years back:

 

It is a little more than changed from when i first knew it back in 1958

[rl1856]

Original Corvette SS 

Maserati 450s Coupe

Rear Engined Maserati Birdcage(s)

Mckee Oldsmobile (2nd class G6 chassis, underpowered US auto engine)

[bill p]

ensign14, on 20 Sept 2016 - 13:05, said:

The Moorland FJ was slightly crunched at Goodwood a couple of years back:
 

A "sports car that failed to make the cut"??

[sabrejet]

bill p, on 08 Oct 2016 - 08:21, said:

A "sports car that failed to make the cut"??

 My thoughts too: a bit of thread drift. In the hopes of getting it back on track:

 

 

 

 

Edited by sabrejet, 08 October 2016 - 09:10.

[Sharman]

bill p, on 08 Oct 2016 - 08:21, said:

A "sports car that failed to make the cut"??

That is the Moorland FJ, there was also a Moorland Climax sports racer, which (if you bother the read the thread) I said was a sole example and still alive now living in the NE of the USA