Vettel doing things against RBR wishes
#1
Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:08
Vettel once again blatantly flouted RBR's interests in favor of his own at Monaco. I think there is a good chance he will be glad he flouted the order to let Webber win unchallenged in MAL. I'm not so sure about the Monaco fastest lap.
Anyway, I think the Monaco fast lap against RBR's wishes was yet another sign that Vettel is off to Ferrari next season. I just think these things show his long-term interests at RBR may not be very long. Usually it's unwise to do things that your team doesn't like. Not so much when they will shortly be your ex-team.
I'm sure a lot of you will object to my read on these events. But I'm betting there's a good chance my prediction will turn out to be correct ;)
#3
Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:10
#4
Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:12
#5
Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:19
#6
Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:23
Did Vettel really need to give Rosberg a nice 4s cushion?
#7
Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:27
I think the fact he does these little things this season indicate his long-term interests in RBR are short. I do not think he flouted RBR's wishes as much in previous seasons.
#8
Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:27
#9
Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:29
I'm glad he did it, showing to everyone what an utter farce the "racing" has become. Pity they didn't allow his entire response to be aired.
True. I, for one, hadn't realised that when Ross Brawn said Merc would not be employing the "tortoise and the hare" strategy, what he meant was that they would use the "tortoise and the tortoise" strategy instead. Fact is any one of the drivers in the queue behind Rosberg, going right back to the Saubers probably, could have backed off a bit and then gone for a lap in the end. Vettel is the only one who did so because he's the only one childish enough to care about fastest laps. I'm sure when Vettel retires he will probably have a record number of fastest laps, and will get a lot of "satisfaction" from it, but it's a bit like winning a prize for caring about something nobody else cares about. Like having collected more Maidenhead United programmes than anyone else? He's won a competition against himself, there, I'm afraid...
#10
Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:33
I'm glad he did it, showing to everyone what an utter farce the "racing" has become. Pity they didn't allow his entire response to be aired.
On topic, I don't think it has anything to do with what the OP suggests.
Edited by plumtree, 27 May 2013 - 19:35.
#11
Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:33
Pitwall is support, which supplies information. Race is executed and managed by a driver, who uses information as best as he deems useful. As far as I am concern he should put his racing engineer on off switch more often.I wanted to post in the Vettel at Ferrari 2014 thread but it's closed...
Vettel once again blatantly flouted RBR's interests in favor of his own at Monaco. I think there is a good chance he will be glad he flouted the order to let Webber win unchallenged in MAL. I'm not so sure about the Monaco fastest lap.
Anyway, I think the Monaco fast lap against RBR's wishes was yet another sign that Vettel is off to Ferrari next season. I just think these things show his long-term interests at RBR may not be very long. Usually it's unwise to do things that your team doesn't like. Not so much when they will shortly be your ex-team.
I'm sure a lot of you will object to my read on these events. But I'm betting there's a good chance my prediction will turn out to be correct ;)
#12
Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:38
Vettel sometimes acts very childishly, but I don't see that fast lap as anything childish on his part. Rather, he's proving a point, sending a message how much drivers have to reduce their pace because of the shitty tyres, how much faster they can be. He sounds rather fed up, frankly. And rightfully so.True. I, for one, hadn't realised that when Ross Brawn said Merc would not be employing the "tortoise and the hare" strategy, what he meant was that they would use the "tortoise and the tortoise" strategy instead. Fact is any one of the drivers in the queue behind Rosberg, going right back to the Saubers probably, could have backed off a bit and then gone for a lap in the end. Vettel is the only one who did so because he's the only one childish enough to care about fastest laps. I'm sure when Vettel retires he will probably have a record number of fastest laps, and will get a lot of "satisfaction" from it, but it's a bit like winning a prize for caring about something nobody else cares about. Like having collected more Maidenhead United programmes than anyone else? He's won a competition against himself, there, I'm afraid...
#13
Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:44
I don't care whether or not it is right or wrong for drivers to drive selfishly wrt their teams. In fact, I consider that a stupid discussion. For example, many consider Senna to be the greatest driver ever -- a much more selfish driver than Vettel will ever be. And of course Schumacher. In other words it's basically irrelevant to anything that really counts in F1.
I think the fact he does these little things this season indicate his long-term interests in RBR are short. I do not think he flouted RBR's wishes as much in previous seasons.
Vettel always goes for the fastest lap. He's never crashed while doing it and as long as he doesn't it's good publicity for the team. Another sad fan who wants to split up the RBR/Vettel pairing. It's an actual joke people think he's leaving for Ferrari next year.
#14
Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:45
hahahaHe's been doing this for years and the team have been telling him off for years.
#15
Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:47
I wanted to post in the Vettel at Ferrari 2014 thread but it's closed...
Vettel once again blatantly flouted RBR's interests in favor of his own at Monaco. I think there is a good chance he will be glad he flouted the order to let Webber win unchallenged in MAL. I'm not so sure about the Monaco fastest lap.
Anyway, I think the Monaco fast lap against RBR's wishes was yet another sign that Vettel is off to Ferrari next season. I just think these things show his long-term interests at RBR may not be very long. Usually it's unwise to do things that your team doesn't like. Not so much when they will shortly be your ex-team.
I'm sure a lot of you will object to my read on these events. But I'm betting there's a good chance my prediction will turn out to be correct ;)
C'mon. Vettel does that since his age 2.
Once Kimi had the same habit.
#16
Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:49
It only shows a deep bias (if not hatred) towards SV. Especially when like many have already said, this is something traditional.
#17
Posted 27 May 2013 - 19:51
Well,I dont realy object your view,it is always important to look at both sides of the coin.I wanted to post in the Vettel at Ferrari 2014 thread but it's closed...
Vettel once again blatantly flouted RBR's interests in favor of his own at Monaco. I think there is a good chance he will be glad he flouted the order to let Webber win unchallenged in MAL. I'm not so sure about the Monaco fastest lap.
Anyway, I think the Monaco fast lap against RBR's wishes was yet another sign that Vettel is off to Ferrari next season. I just think these things show his long-term interests at RBR may not be very long. Usually it's unwise to do things that your team doesn't like. Not so much when they will shortly be your ex-team.
I'm sure a lot of you will object to my read on these events. But I'm betting there's a good chance my prediction will turn out to be correct ;)
From an RBR perspective it is probably wrong and as many say,the day he bins it while leading a race is the day he will have alot of explaining to do.I must admit I am not realy a fan of him going for fastest lap,especialy in Monaco where a mistake equals a very expensive F1 car in the barriers and a load of points thrown away.
But on the flip side,seb chasing a meaningless fastest lap tells you all you need to know about what drives this kid,ambition.Many will disrespeect him saying that he has a fast car,no talent,cant overtake,favourism etc but you cannot say he lacks the ambition to push for every single prize on offer in formula one,and for that I absolutley respect him and in many ways envy that kind of drive,especialy in someone so young.I think thats why Horner dont realy punish him,you take away that edge he has he becomes half the driver he is.
I dont think he is off to Ferrari,Seb is after Schumi's records and going to Scuderia for a dog fight with Alonso (which may end in tears think Alonso-Hamilton) just to prove a few people wrong may not be worth it.
#18
Posted 27 May 2013 - 20:18
Just another overreaction relating to Vettel once again..
#19
Posted 27 May 2013 - 20:30
I wanted to post in the Vettel at Ferrari 2014 thread but it's closed...
Vettel once again blatantly flouted RBR's interests in favor of his own at Monaco. I think there is a good chance he will be glad he flouted the order to let Webber win unchallenged in MAL. I'm not so sure about the Monaco fastest lap.
Anyway, I think the Monaco fast lap against RBR's wishes was yet another sign that Vettel is off to Ferrari next season. I just think these things show his long-term interests at RBR may not be very long. Usually it's unwise to do things that your team doesn't like. Not so much when they will shortly be your ex-team.
I'm sure a lot of you will object to my read on these events. But I'm betting there's a good chance my prediction will turn out to be correct ;)
I remember a couple years ago after a race where he did the same thing (he was leading late at the time... It may have been in Suzuka.), he was interviewed about it, and he told the interviewer something like "You get so few chances to have such a great car, and to enjoy driving such a great circuit, so I had to have a little fun". Anyway, it could be that this time it had an additional reason (the whole tire debate), but his "satisfaction" comment makes sense to me. There's nothing new here, certainly can't be looked ay as an indicator Seb's going to Ferrari.
As someone else said: How long have you been watching?
Advertisement
#20
Posted 27 May 2013 - 20:37
#21
Posted 27 May 2013 - 20:43
#22
Posted 27 May 2013 - 21:16
Anyway, IMO FL is one of the most rubbish stat ever, shows nothing at all, but some people do like it for whatever the reason.
#23
Posted 27 May 2013 - 21:19
#24
Posted 27 May 2013 - 21:33
Yeah, next time in Monaco he might keep it below 50 [km/hr]; it's not safe to drive fast.I hope he realises how much of a pillock he'll look if he does crash trying it one of these days.
People get a grip; this is racing, and the day we will strive for anything else than being at the edge, that we should rename series to something else. Seb was not happy in this race, that was obvious, and he vented out on the last lap; big deal, start a new thread.
#25
Posted 27 May 2013 - 21:36
#26
Posted 27 May 2013 - 21:38
#27
Posted 27 May 2013 - 21:39
#28
Posted 27 May 2013 - 21:40
#29
Posted 27 May 2013 - 21:56
#30
Posted 27 May 2013 - 22:00
I praise him for it. He showed the world the cars were driving at least 2 seconds off achievable pace. Have you herd the extended version of his radio message posted in another thread on this forum. It is very telling of how bored he was during the race.
do you have the link to the thread please?
#31
Posted 27 May 2013 - 22:01
do you have the link to the thread please?
the radio call in question is linked in this thread too, a few posts up
#32
Posted 27 May 2013 - 22:02
#33
Posted 27 May 2013 - 22:06
well this time im happy he did it
#34
Posted 27 May 2013 - 22:07
I hope he realises how much of a pillock he'll look if he does crash trying it one of these days.
for driving fast?
You know that was the point of F1 in the past. He should know how to drive 100%.
#35
Posted 27 May 2013 - 22:35
yes, yes, that's what I am talking about, that's what I mean...it's as simple as that he couldn't be satisfied driving behind rosberg slow and not even trying... he couldn't feel good with himself so he tried it
#36
Posted 27 May 2013 - 22:42
This. It was also a statement towards Pirelli this time.He just wanted to prove a point when he set that fastest lap to show that they weren't racing they were just conserving tyres which isn't how F1 should be at all.
I'm actually glad he did it as it gives us some insights on how close drivers are to the limit.
#37
Posted 27 May 2013 - 22:54
This. It was also a statement towards Pirelli this time.
I'm actually glad he did it as it gives us some insights on how close drivers are to the limit.
What point was he making, though? It's Monaco. It's always been like that - if the leader is slow, everybody is slow. It's not typical of this season because at any other track, if Rosberg or anybody else was leading and was lapping two seconds off the pace he would be passed immediately. So what does Vettel's lap tell you? (1) you can't pass easily at Monaco and (2) F1 drivers often don't push when they don't need to. Those are hardly profound insights.
If Vettel was going for every single prize on offer he would have been driving under Rosberg's rear wing looking for a chance to pass him. Fastest lap is not a prize it's a statistic. He's the F1 equivalent of a stamp collector - he's setting fastest laps for his own amusement when no-one else on the grid gives a monkeys about setting fastest lap. I think it's pretty funny. And one day he will stuff it in the barrier and that will be even funnier.
#38
Posted 27 May 2013 - 22:56
What point was he making, though? It's Monaco. It's always been like that - if the leader is slow, everybody is slow.
That the reason he spent the race meandering 4 seconds off Rosberg and not his gearbox attacking him was tyres being unable to take the punishment, not his car lacking the speed.
#39
Posted 27 May 2013 - 23:04
That the reason he spent the race meandering 4 seconds off Rosberg and not his gearbox attacking him was tyres being unable to take the punishment, not his car lacking the speed.
He was slower than Rosberg over 1 lap which is why he didn't get pole. He was slower over 78 laps too which is why he didn't win. He set the fastest race lap which obviously means something to him but not to anybody else. Apparently he thinks it proves a point but it is genuinely not clear what that point is. "I can go really fast over a lap if I want to but I can't keep it up" Yeah. Good, Seb. You and the other 23 drivers. That's because the 2013 tyres degrade a lot. Well done for telling us what we already knew.
Advertisement
#40
Posted 27 May 2013 - 23:06
Think about it, if you've won the last 3 WDCs, a million pole positions
what exactly does it do for him? Really .........? .Does he reassure himself that he is the fastest? Maybe he just doesn't know anything else.
Surely not everybody is trying to set fl in the ideal late conditions, and I think Guteriez did it last time.
Sure he's had a slow afternoon trawling around behind a bus, but if he really wanted to achieve something heroic maybe he could have defied orders and tried to pass the bus?
mymemoryfails
Edited by mymemoryfails, 27 May 2013 - 23:09.
#41
Posted 27 May 2013 - 23:15
He was slower than Rosberg over 1 lap which is why he didn't get pole. He was slower over 78 laps too which is why he didn't win. He set the fastest race lap which obviously means something to him but not to anybody else. Apparently he thinks it proves a point but it is genuinely not clear what that point is. "I can go really fast over a lap if I want to but I can't keep it up" Yeah. Good, Seb. You and the other 23 drivers. That's because the 2013 tyres degrade a lot. Well done for telling us what we already knew.
a 16.5 with 30 odd lap old tyres is a statement, even if you fail to see it. This might enlighten you further
#42
Posted 27 May 2013 - 23:19
All of my favorite drivers so far have put an emphasis on fastest laps: Prost (known more for driving acumen over speed, but still went for those fast laps), Raikkonen and Vettel. We'll see if Perez joins in - although he is momentarily in the dog house.
Some see the fast lap as a wasteful and meaningless stat, but I see it as exciting and embodying the very meaning of racing. Just look at the record you are trying to break - it is crazy what Prost was able to do in that regard. And if you are a dedicated fan of live timing, you know the joy of a 3 column purple line - whenever it happens.
All that said, Seb never goes for it when his car is in stiches or the tyres are on the brink or anything of that nature. I think the team's caution is understandable and I too don't want to see him jeopardize the race over a FL - but I think the compromise is allowing it when the car is running well. It is just RBR is set against it at all times no matter what...
Edited by bourbon, 27 May 2013 - 23:20.
#43
Posted 27 May 2013 - 23:28
I really wonder about "the satisfaction" it gives him.
Think about it, if you've won the last 3 WDCs, a million pole positions
what exactly does it do for him? Really .........? .Does he reassure himself that he is the fastest? Maybe he just doesn't know anything else.
Surely not everybody is trying to set fl in the ideal late conditions, and I think Guteriez did it last time.
Sure he's had a slow afternoon trawling around behind a bus, but if he really wanted to achieve something heroic maybe he could have defied orders and tried to pass the bus?
mymemoryfails
Ever tried a racing sim, or at least any sort of game with a wheel? Going fast for a laptime pushing in every corner, is just fun. Cruising around several seconds off your limit isn't as much.
I'm hardly Vettel's biggest fan but can totally understand him.
#44
Posted 27 May 2013 - 23:42
You gotta have that racing spirit, he doesn't care if he bins it, he just wants to drive fast. Who can blame him?
He does the same even if he's P1 and ahead by 30seconds on last lap, he'll still go for the max speed that he can usually.
Maybe you guys aren't real racing fans, go play Euro Truck Simulator, or Barbie Riding Adventures. More suited to all you whiners.
I want to see people push to the max every lap, take some risk, not play Pirelli Tyre Tycoon 2013.
#45
Posted 27 May 2013 - 23:48
Maybe you guys aren't real racing fans, go play Euro Truck Simulator, or Barbie Riding Adventures. More suited to all you whiners.
Sooo serious!
Though, as a team boss, I would get pissed of in the end. Anyway, things always end up biting you in the ass, and the same will happen for Vettel
#46
Posted 27 May 2013 - 23:48
#47
Posted 27 May 2013 - 23:51
Sooo serious!
Though, as a team boss, I would get pissed of in the end. Anyway, things always end up biting you in the ass, and the same will happen for Vettel
So what if it does? He's a racing driver, if he bins it so what? Other drivers dont bin it? Almost all top drivers bin their cars every few years.
I guess Vettel can win every race but that 1 race he crashes there will be a huge amount of "OMG TOLD YOU HE CRASH KID".
Give me a driver who wants to push 100%, instead of one who wants to have a cup of tea drive.
You do realize he never wouldve been 3x WDC without this "Edge" and fire.
#48
Posted 28 May 2013 - 00:00
Good for Sebastian AND Mark for calling the race as it was, DULL.
Looking forward to Sebastian busting the records open, the kid is super-fast and HUNGRY.
#49
Posted 28 May 2013 - 00:03
He's a spoiled brat, and will keep doing it until Red Bull actually do something about it (never).
Bitter much?
#50
Posted 28 May 2013 - 00:04
Ever tried a racing sim, or at least any sort of game with a wheel? Going fast for a laptime pushing in every corner, is just fun. Cruising around several seconds off your limit isn't as much.
I'm hardly Vettel's biggest fan but can totally understand him.
except for in GTA ... in GTA IV have greatest satisfaction driving slowly and following the rules... not driving when its red and everything.... yeah I'm that weird
but that's exactly it, what does he need more of a reason than to be able to be satisfied with himself... if he wouldn't have done it he probably would have felt worse about the race, cause he would have done absolutely nothing but following Rosberg like a snail... because there was no chance to really overtake without endangering the tyres... it was one lap of 78... he needed to do at least one thing that made him feel like a racing driver...