1497 replies to this topic

[Lone]

during the GP weekend actually.. There were no serious rumors about Kimi at the time other than some unknown source on the internet from a guy from finland..

I was merely wondering which came first the Kimi has signed for Ferrari (by SuomF1) or the LdM rebuke and Alonsos tweet.

If someones says they know for a fact that Kimi has signed for Ferrari isn't a serious rumour then what is?

[SpaMaster]

Unknown is not disrespecting, It is the truth. Outside of Finland that source is unknown.. Is a fact.

And are people actually serious to think that Alonso would be searching the internet for those finnish sources to get information about Kimi .?

 

Come one man.. You guys do think that the world evolves around your hero.

Why? Finland is not in this world? Finland does not count? They can't have good journalists? Aren't Finnish sources more likely to get the scoop on a Finnish driver because the audience and seeding-source could be of Finnish in nature?

 

Like I said, I have no problem with the content you posted. I myself won't  believe Kimi-Ferrari rumour until it is officially announced. I have seen your other posts on this Franck reporter also. You seem to have a rather dismissive attitude towards him. He seems to be a journalist with long and credible track record.

 

Yeah, as for this domino-effect goes, it all started with Alonso's manager being spotted at Red Bull motorhome, nothing else.

Edited by SpaMaster, 27 August 2013 - 21:32.

[discover23]

Why? Finland is not in this world? Finland does not count? They can't have good journalists? Aren't Finnish sources more likely to get the scoop on a Finnish driver because the audience and seeding-source could be of Finnish in nature?

 

Like I said, I have no problem with the content you posted. I myself won't  believe Kimi-Ferrari rumour until it is officially announced. I have seen your other posts on this Franck reporter also. You seem to have a rather dismissive attitude towards him. He seems to be a journalist with long and credible track record.

 

Yeah, as for this domino-effect goes, it all started with Alonso's manager being spotted at Red Bull motorhome, nothing else.

That is fine but the news was not in the paddock or followed by the other more conventional motorsport sources until maybe a week or two later. I believe it was bild who followed that story first and they are a tabloid to begin with. They ran with this story, basically copying from the Finnish article the week after the GP weekend. by that time, Alonso's manager had already been in contact with Horner and LdM had expressed his disgust towards Alonso.

Why would Alonso not be welcoming Kimi, when Massa was equally fast during their time at ferrari, and he is willing to go to RedBull and challenge Vettel who is currently the best driver in F1. You cannot put these two togehter and end-up with a sesible conclusion.

Edited by discover23, 27 August 2013 - 21:44.

[mardmarium]

I was merely wondering which came first the Kimi has signed for Ferrari (by SuomF1) or the LdM rebuke and Alonsos tweet.

If someones says they know for a fact that Kimi has signed for Ferrari isn't a serious rumour then what is?

 

I don´t think what event was first really matters, but I think the sequence of threads in this forum was: first Alonso to Red Bull; then LdM rebukes Alonso; then Kimi to Ferrari. Everything was basically at the same time, in any case I wrote in my previous post “Kimi to Ferrari rumor at its peak” because I am sure the rumor spread quickly after LdM words. Sorry but I didn´t know what the finland press said those days.

 

http://formula1.ferr...i-doesnt-sit-me

 

That was a reference to the latest comments from Fernando Alonso, which did not go down well with Montezemolo, nor with anyone in the team…published on 07/29/2013

[discover23]

Alonso to RedBull rumor thread was created on the 28th.

 

http://forums.autosp...so-to-red-bull/

 

Kimi to Ferrari thread started on the 31st.

[Lone]

That is fine but the news was not in the paddock or followed by the other more conventional motorsport sources until maybe a week or two later. I believe it was bild who followed that story first and they are a tabloid to begin with. They ran with this story, basically copying from the Finnish article the week after the GP weekend. by that time, Alonso's manager had already been in contact with Horner and LdM had expressed his disgust towards Alonso.
Why would Alonso not be welcoming Kimi, when Massa was equally fast during their time at ferrari, and he is willing to go to RedBull and challenge Vettel who is currently the best driver in F1. You cannot put these two togehter and end-up with a sesible conclusion.

The million dollar question is if what SuomiF1 stated is true or not. Entertain the idea that it is, where would you think Alonso would find out about it? From SoumiF1 website or from inside Ferrari? If SuomiF1 new about it prior to the Hungarian GP when do you think Alonso found out about it?

I also want to make it clear that I'm not saying that what is reported by SuomiF1 is true. I'm only interested in the timeline.

[discover23]

The million dollar question is if what SuomiF1 stated is true or not. Entertain the idea that it is, where would you think Alonso would find out about it? From SoumiF1 website or from inside Ferrari? If SuomiF1 new about it prior to the Hungarian GP when do you think Alonso found out about it?

I also want to make it clear that I'm not saying that what is reported by SuomiF1 is true. I'm only interested in the timeline.

And I go back to what I said earlier.. There is no indication that Alonso contacted RB because of this event, if it ever happend. There is always been talk about replacing massa even since last year.. and even last year, Autosport ran with a possible candidate list of options for Massa's seat and Kimi was part of it.

And there a lot of indications which point to Alonso being unsatisfied with Ferrari's part of the deal.. After Barcelona, Ferrari went downhill meanwhile Lotus maintained their status and Mercedes gained up on them.. Add to that the rumors about Ferrari's prospect for 2014.. There is a seat open at RedBull currently, why wouldn't any driver, including Alonso, be interested in driving that car?

Edited by discover23, 27 August 2013 - 22:13.

[redreni]

So maybe he just then should drive better, without stupid mistakes in the midle of wdc battle. Instead of publicly ******* all over Ferrari. I got a feeling that Ferrari mechanics could be a bit pissed off because of that.

 

I'm not an Alonso fanboy, believe me. If Ferrari win I don't care who drives. If I thought for a moment that there was a better driver available I'd be all for signing him, but I'd be deluded if I thought that would suddenly make the current car capable of winning. It would be like Force India signing Raikkonnen and expecting to win the title as a result - err, no, i doesn't work like that. The key is to design a winning car, then whatver drivers you have will become winning drivers. Look at Honda 2008/Brawn 2009 - a pair of average Joe drivers became instant winners.

 

Alonso has been less consistent this season than last, but frankly if you imagine for a moment that it would be remotely possible for him or anybody else to challenge for the title in a Ferrari this year then I'm afraid you've no been paying attention.

[Borko]

Alonso has been less consistent this season than last, but frankly if you imagine for a moment that it would be remotely possible for him or anybody else to challenge for the title in a Ferrari this year then I'm afraid you've no been paying attention.

I agree. Even if everything was ideal at every track from the first race, if he didn't crash in Malaysia and instead finished on the podium, didn't open DRS again in Bahrain and finished 5th in Monaco, and that was possible, he would now have something between 176 and 182 points, at best 15 points behind Vettel. RB9 is too strong, and Vettel is also driving incredibly well. Alonso will probably finish second anyway at the end of the season, so he will provide the best possible result with this car.

[2ms]

I'm not an Alonso fanboy, believe me. If Ferrari win I don't care who drives. If I thought for a moment that there was a better driver available I'd be all for signing him, but I'd be deluded if I thought that would suddenly make the current car capable of winning. It would be like Force India signing Raikkonnen and expecting to win the title as a result - err, no, i doesn't work like that. The key is to design a winning car, then whatver drivers you have will become winning drivers. Look at Honda 2008/Brawn 2009 - a pair of average Joe drivers became instant winners.

 

Alonso has been less consistent this season than last, but frankly if you imagine for a moment that it would be remotely possible for him or anybody else to challenge for the title in a Ferrari this year then I'm afraid you've no been paying attention.

 

 

For what you say to be true, it would have to be the case that Webber is either a very bad driver or has severely underperformed the last couple years.  Neither is true.

Edited by 2ms, 27 August 2013 - 23:14.

[Borko]

For what you say to be true, it would have to be the case that Webber is either a very bad driver or has severely underperformed the last couple years.  Neither is true.

Your logic is wrong. Nobody thinks, for example, that McLaren was worse in 2008 than BMW and Renault, since Kovalainen finished behind both Kubica and Heidfeld, and also behind Alonso. Nobody thinks that McLaren wasn't the best car in 1999 - Coulthard finished behind Irvine and Frentzen. Also, Fisichella was just 5th in 2005, and Alonso easily won the title.

 

2010 was the only season in which Alonso should have done more than he did. He was really bad until Germany.

[bourbon]

I agree. Even if everything was ideal at every track from the first race, if he didn't crash in Malaysia and instead finished on the podium, didn't open DRS again in Bahrain and finished 5th in Monaco, and that was possible, he would now have something between 176 and 182 points, at best 15 points behind Vettel. RB9 is too strong, and Vettel is also driving incredibly well. Alonso will probably finish second anyway at the end of the season, so he will provide the best possible result with this car.

 

Precisely.  So it is not all down to the car - some of the fault lies with the drivers.  No one expects them to be perfect, however, similarly, the drivers cannot expect perfection from the team either.  It is clear that without the minor errors on his part and with a faster car, Alonso would be further ahead.  So i do not think that either Alonso or Ferrari merit disparagement on that front. 

 

I don't follow Ferrari or Alonso closely, but to be honest, I have not seen the supposed "horrible disparagement of Ferrari from Fernando" publicly.  All drivers say the cars have to improve and the team must work hard to move forward and so forth.  Alonso's wish for a better car or a Red Bull for his birthday sounded tongue in cheek to me.  So I have to imagine these negative comments are being stated behind the scenes. I did not approve of Luca's speeches - not just about Alonso, although that is all that is appropriate in this thread.

 

That said, I have seen and heard things that were a bit surprising from Alonso - but none of them were downgrading Ferrari directly - although perhaps indirectly in terms of looking into other options.  For example, his manager at Red bull; his comment about Seb doing a great job and it wasn't Newey this year (I started a thread asking if that was going to turn into a RBR bid), his effusive congrats to Seb on his win (hugs stopped after Monza 2008 for Seb, although he does regularly hug others); his pause to shake Horner's hand on the grid; well these things made me believe Alonso might be pursuing Red Bull as an option - or trying to make it look as though he is.  So it could be that Alonso is provoked by more than the car toward looking at options for moving teams.  It could mean problems at Ferrari - or not, lol.

 

Another point is that this whole "Ferrari car is terrible and not performing" is not valid, imo.  As pointed out, the car has performed well enough to give Alonso the title in 3 years of the 4 so far (2010, 2012 and 2013 - and improving).  So I don't agree that Fernando has any right to leave Ferrari because they have not delivered the best car on the grid for him on a consistent basis.  They have done so sufficient to win and that is all that is required.  People like to say RBR (his only real top car option, imo) has consistently provided the best car on the grid, but the reality would hit most square in the face I guess - including Alonso.   The RBR is largely ignored when it is flagging and flailing, unless your favorite driver happens to be seated in it, then you remember every FP and every qually and every race - and it has not been the best in either qually or race the majority of years 2010, 2012, or 2013, either due to reliability, pace or mechanical issues.  That is the reality Alonso would find at any constructor - what he has found now.  I think he knows that.  Which leads me to believe his current seeming unhappiness has only 10% to do with the performance of the Ferrari and 90% to do with Ferrari administrative relations.

 

In the end, I think egos will cool and Fernando is not on his way out.  Even if he must compromise - he'll stay.  No one can offer him the bonuses and boons he enjoys now as #1 driver in the most famous car in the world of F1.  He has massive support in and out of the garage, and that is something that one doesn't dismiss lightly. 

 

Edited by bourbon, 27 August 2013 - 23:20.

[Winter98]

I agree. Even if everything was ideal at every track from the first race, if he didn't crash in Malaysia and instead finished on the podium, didn't open DRS again in Bahrain and finished 5th in Monaco, and that was possible, he would now have something between 176 and 182 points, at best 15 points behind Vettel. RB9 is too strong, and Vettel is also driving incredibly well. Alonso will probably finish second anyway at the end of the season, so he will provide the best possible result with this car.

 

15 points behind at this point in the season would have been very doable.  SV would be feeling much more pressure during each race, and FA would be right in the hunt. 

 

Certainly a lot less daunting than the current 46.

Edited by Winter98, 27 August 2013 - 23:27.

[Borko]

Pretty good post. He should have won the title in 2010, Ferrari wasn't the fastest car overall, but he had to take advantage of Red Bull's reliability problems, and also Vettel's and Webber's mistakes. But he didn't. He lost huge amount of points because of his own big mistakes.

 

But in 2011, and especially in 2012, he put those 2 Ferrari cars at the positions where they probably didn't belong. He drove the best season of his career last year, and finished 2nd, fighting until the end for the title in what was 4th best car on numerous occasions.

 

All in all, both Alonso and Ferrari should be reasonably satisfied with what they have achieved for now. There is not a real reason for him to leave, but also there is no real reason for them to replace him.

[Radion]

Pretty good post. He should have won the title in 2010, Ferrari wasn't the fastest car overall, but he had to take advantage of Red Bull's reliability problems, and also Vettel's and Webber's mistakes. But he didn't. He lost huge amount of points because of his own big mistakes.

 

But in 2011, and especially in 2012, he put those 2 Ferrari cars at the positions where they probably didn't belong. He drove the best season of his career last year, and finished 2nd, fighting until the end for the title in what was 4th best car on numerous occasions.

 

All in all, both Alonso and Ferrari should be reasonably satisfied with what they have achieved for now. There is not a real reason for him to leave, but also there is no real reason for them to replace him.

Listen, I don't believe in this crap. 

It's always a combination of driver and car. If the car suits the driver, he'll be able to get everything out of it. There's no such thing like 'putting it where it didn't belong'!? How do you know vettel wouldn't have gotten more out of the ferrari in 2012/2011?!

 

How do you define 'putting it where it didn't belong'?! 

Edited by Radion, 27 August 2013 - 23:49.

[El_Rápido]

Sad to say but I think the best thing for Fernando and Ferrari right now is to part ways. Fernando, sad to say, is not a "Ferrari" driver per se.

 

I wish him the best in whatever he decides to do but... methinks that reading all that samurai stuff ain't going to make you beat the RBs. 

 

If he leaves Ferrari this will be the second team he leaves in bad terms. 

 

To me it looks and sounds as though this is the type of driver that, once he retires, will totally disappear from the sport out of sheer shame.

 

And I'm a fan of his.

[AyrtonSauna]

Sad to say but I think the best thing for Fernando and Ferrari right now is to part ways. Fernando, sad to say, is not a "Ferrari" driver per se.

 

I wish him the best in whatever he decides to do but... methinks that reading all that samurai stuff ain't going to make you beat the RBs. 

 

If he leaves Ferrari this will be the second team he leaves in bad terms. 

 

To me it looks and sounds as though this is the type of driver that, once he retires, will totally disappear from the sport out of sheer shame.

 

And I'm a fan of his.

 

I still haven't heard what he said or did wrong.If it all boils down to an interest in driving for the cans then there's nothing wrong with it.Any driver will always want the best option but he will probably stay at Ferrari.He'd be crazy to change teams under a big reg change.

 

Don't know what this "not a Ferrari driver" is all about.Bollocks. Last time I checked he's been there since 2010,proudly worn the Prancers badge and performed incredibly.

So what if it's not all smooth sailing? There's always calm after a storm,but it sounds more like a storm in a tea cup.

Edited by AyrtonSauna, 28 August 2013 - 02:54.

[CoolBreeze]

Where would Alonso go to?

 

Lotus - They can't pay Kimi's salary in time. Lack major sponsorship.

Red Bull - That's Seb's team. Alonso doesn't like equal rights. Mclaren 2007 comes to mind.

Mclaren - He probably already burnt his bridges with the management there.

 

I highly doubt it that he's leaving. He's just playing some mind games. I'm more interested to see who his partner will be next season.

[HPT]

Are you joking?  Your avatar indicates you're an Alonso fan, so perhaps not.

 

Please learn to read. I was responding to the poster who asked what Jonathan Noble wrote in his article. What I said was what he wrote and it's not my opinion.

[HPT]

Does Noble say he has a source for this or it's just his opinion?

 

If this is true, Pekka Franck might have seen a conditional contract between Kimi and Ferrari. That could be the only deal.

 

Noble said that is what one team principal thinks.

[bsrf1]

I do not think Kimi is the king of guy whos signs options at least according to Lopez. 

[HPT]

I do not think Kimi is the king of guy whos signs options at least according to Lopez. 

 

He did sign a pre-contract with Ferrari back in 2006, IIRC.

[nectar]

He did sign a pre-contract with Ferrari back in 2006, IIRC.

Somebody correct me if I believed wrong, story was that Todt offered and he signed NOT a pre-contract, during Hungarian gp in 2005. 

[Oho]

If Ferrari actually has an option on Räikkönen replacing Alonso in case the latter makes his exit the implications are, well, interesting starting with: It is not a storm in a tea cup and Ferrari seem convinced Massa is not the driver he was before his accident. Otherwise lining up Räikkönen really  makes no sense at all.

[Jvr]

It was not from SuomiF1 nor from the Bild Alonso learned about Raikkonen's discussions with Ferrari. Ferrari team told this to Alonso and asked his opinion. Alonso had said he has no problems but Turrini was not sure if Alonso was telling truth.

Source: Leo Turrini, blog entry on 31st of July, Google translated:

 

9) After the GP of England, and before the Grand Prix of Germany, Kimi spoke with Stefano Domenicali. To confirm to him that his interest is identical to a year ago, and then if the interest was mutual thing you can do.

10) But the interest is mutual? That is, LCDM has changed his mind about? I do not know.

11) Alonso, before all this mess Hungarians, had been informed of the event and had, as in 2012, said they had no problems.

 

12) Then, if one thinks of the things he says or not, I do not know that either. For example, like Vettel says Raikkonen to Red Bull but for me is a lie, it was up to Seb take Ricciardo and I play the house.

Edited by Jvr, 28 August 2013 - 07:11.

[Lone]

Noble said that is what one team principal thinks.

Could that be Whitmarsh? Didn't he say "Obviously Kimi is determined to go somewhere else and I sense that he will not succeed in that goal, so let’s see how he gets on there".

[Cyanide]

A lot of "thinks" and "ifs" and "maybes" render this deal very unlikely. The entire situation is so blurry that's impossible to know for sure what's going in the background.

[chumma]

 What if Honda got the engine wrong for 2015 and substantially down on power than their rivals at Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari? 

 

 

Don't see it, they will know what the competition has, all the little 'tricks' and 'secrets' will be out in the open, and they can basically refine what they have to and copy whatever fancy things the other engines have, not to mention they have no restriction on mileage etc, they can do what they want for 2014 testing wise and come into 2015 with an engine that has done 3 times the mileage of all other engines...but it could still happen i guess. I think McLaren with the Honda should be aiming for glory in 15, they have a massive advantage with the 'blank' year for Honda to develop.

[rasul]

I'm sorry, I don't. I saw it on Sky Sports on Friday before practice.

If anybody has it, I'd also like to see it again. It was very telling, and Anthony Davidson said that he intentionally didn't use the microphone and kept his head down when saying "yes". So if he does move next year, reporters can't accuse him of lying.

Damn. I've looked everywhere for that video but couldn't find it. 

I only found a few gifs on some blog:

Indeed, he doesn't look very certain. His body language is off. Even if he's telling the truth, he doesn't exactly look happy about it.

[MichaelPM]

Where would Alonso go to?

 

Lotus - They can't pay Kimi's salary in time. Lack major sponsorship.

Red Bull - That's Seb's team. Alonso doesn't like equal rights. Mclaren 2007 comes to mind.

Mclaren - He probably already burnt his bridges with the management there.

 

I highly doubt it that he's leaving. He's just playing some mind games. I'm more interested to see who his partner will be next season.

"That's Seb's team"...implying a bias and therefore the team would not treat them equally

"Alonso doesn't like equal rights"....but it would be less than equal anyway according to yourself?

 

I think in your mind you know the team would be behind Vettel but would try to ignore it and claim they are equal so the advantage is purely down to Vettel. If you can't stick to your story for 8 words in a row then I think you really must fear what Alonso would achieve in RBR 

 

 

"Mclaren - He probably already burnt his bridges with the management there."

Whitmarsh - "A massive regret to me is losing a star like Fernando,"  "He's one of the greatest racing drivers. I regret that we didn't make it work: we failed to manage the situation

"This a good team, he is a good driver. We could have had more success than we've had."

 

I'm starting to think they you don't even watch F1, you just like reading some headlines and making your own fairytales up about it.

[as65p]

If Ferrari actually has an option on Räikkönen replacing Alonso in case the latter makes his exit the implications are, well, interesting starting with: It is not a storm in a tea cup and Ferrari seem convinced Massa is not the driver he was before his accident. Otherwise lining up Räikkönen really  makes no sense at all.

 

I don't see how it's got anything to do with Massa. Ferrari knows all about him, all the time, what makes no sense is them now suddenly realising he's not as good as he was, after all those years. If anything, it must be about Ferrari believing they can now manage better than in 2007-2009 to get the best out of Raikönnen.

[AustinF1]

Dutch media reported that Dietrich Mateschitz was still on holiday, so no announcement for a driver in Spa. But they also said Mateschitz wants more spectacle in his team and therefore wants Alonso or Raikkonen instead of Ricciardo. If that is true, the deal for Alonso or Raikkonen is done, because Mateschitz still pulls all the strings of course.

Good posting. I've been hearing for a few weeks that DM is the one pushing for Alonso as well. 

[SpaMaster]

..

Why would Alonso not be welcoming Kimi, when Massa was equally fast during their time at ferrari, and he is willing to go to RedBull and challenge Vettel who is currently the best driver in F1. You cannot put these two togehter and end-up with a sesible conclusion.

It is non-sensical to use Massa as the standard to rate what Raikkonen the driver is overall. Alonso has made it very clear on what his take on intra-team rivalry is in one of the press conferences in 2006, I think.  He said something to the effect of - in such tightly contested competition in F1, all the focus in a team must go to the lead driver to maximize their chances, no point with intra-team fight and compromising yourself. It was already clear by his action earlier, but he explicitly said things like those.

 

Alonso went to Ferrari in 2009 because that was his only viable option. He is willing to go to Red Bull not to challenge Vettel, but he feels it would be better to fight for the top prize against Vettel with an equal car rather than slower car. This is a feeling arising out of no option. Not because he is willing to take on the best drivers on equal terms. That is just not there in Alonso's DNA.

 

[CoolBreeze]

I've been following Formula One since 1997.

 

I'm a huge Ferrari fan first and foremost. Let me be clear. I like the fact Alonso is driving for my beloved Scuderia. In my opinion, he's the best, all rounded driver on the grid. However, while Red Bull offers the best equipment at the moment, my question is, can Fred take the pressure if, if at all Vettel starts beating him. No doubt 2007 comes to mind, Alonso is much matured now.

 

However, the fact the Fred keeps on praising Massa is a sign for me that he prefers a teammate like Massa, ie. occasionally faster, not so consistent, and easy to have a say with. Massa is not as ruthless as Seb. And, I think Seb has built the Red Bull team around him. Many of Webber's comments such as 'he can get away with it' just says it all. Why would Fred risk it all and go there?

 

Unless, however, Seb is leaving the Bulls and headed to Ferrari for a fresh challenge.

 

In regards of Mclaren, that is what Martin Whitmarsh says. Martin says lots of things. Such as the on going Kimi saga. And besides pride, why would Alonso go back to Mclaren? The team was against him in the later stages of the 2007 campaign. Plus, what's so great about Mclaren? They seem to be struggling at the moment. The Honda switch is a big question mark. Can Honda really product a powerful, reliable engine?

 

Having said that, i won't be surprised at all if it'll be a status quo in the drivers market. Lotus just needs a major sponsor and Kimi will stay on for a another couple of years. With a decent budget, they have mounted more consistent challenge compared to Ferrari and even Mclaren.

 

Final note my friend. Don't be too quick to judge

[katmen]

Alonso should man up and accept competitive teammate in Ferrari and fulfill his contract.

[Shiroo]

I highly doubt that it is about teammate. It is more about shitty car each year that they provide him. And shitty development pace.

[AustinF1]

It seems unlikely that he will opt for more spectacle with FA.

 

If history tells us anything, there will be lots of specatcle all right, but probably not the type Red Bull Inc. wants..  And all that spectacle is likely to damage their chances of winning the WDC/WCC a la McLaren '07..

Um...Both McLaren drivers missed the WDC by 1 point that year & would've won the WCC if not for getting themselves excluded. That's not down to the drivers.

 

Whitmarsh:

 

 

 I regret that we didn't make it work: we failed to manage the situation

"This a good team, he is a good driver. We could have had more success than we've had.

Edited by AustinF1, 28 August 2013 - 11:02.

[AustinF1]

All this fretting over who did what and when is silly since all we really know is what's happened in the public eye. As is always the case, many moves have no doubt been made behind the scenes before any of us ever saw or heard a thing. We were 2 steps behind actual events then, much as we likely are now.

[AustinF1]

 

Unless, however, Seb is leaving the Bulls and headed to Ferrari for a fresh challenge.

Yes. What if Seb is headed to Ferrari? This is what it all keeps coming back to for me. It makes everything make sense. Alonso and Webber are pals, so no doubt he's told Alonso all about the situation at RBR and the way Vettel has his way with the team.

Edited by AustinF1, 28 August 2013 - 11:31.

[Kingshark]

15 points behind at this point in the season would have been very doable.  SV would be feeling much more pressure during each race, and FA would be right in the hunt. 

 

Certainly a lot less daunting than the current 46.

 

Vettel's 2012 season up and until Spa was certainly no better or less error-ridden than Alonso's season this year so far.

[mardmarium]

Alonso should man up and accept competitive teammate in Ferrari and fulfill his contract.

 

Where is the evidence of Alonso being afraid of a competitive teammate? According to some people here Alonso is afraid of everybody, Vettel, Hamilton, Perez, Raikkonen…I haven´t seen evidence of Alonso being afraid of Kimi, I’ve seen evidence of Alonso being afraid of not having a competitive car, but for some reason, evidence is ignored and “the Alonso is afraid of” mantra continues. He praised Massa and frankly, what did you expect him to do? “I would be delighted with Kimi replacing Massa who has been my teammate for four years”…really?

 

I remember that image of Alonso at the end of the Brazilian GP last year, looking at nowhere, something like “what else can I do?”, this season the car was great until Spain, then downhill again. The things Alonso says, his body language, for God’s sake, the man is frustrated, it´s quite obvious.

 

Nobody knows if the car is too much track dependent, not even Alonso according to his own words, so what has happened in Belgium could be an isolated case…or not.  As a Ferrari supporter I have to say that no matter if Alonso leaves and Kimi joins the team, Ferrari won´t win the WDC (and probably the WCC either) if they don´t have a competitive car.

 

I focus my analysis on facts and facts indicate that Alonso problems with Ferrari are not related to whoever joins the team. I think that if the car improves and is really competitive till the end of the season, Alonso will stay, no matter his teammate, if the car continues with ups and downs…I don´t know, Alonso probably will stay even so, it will depend on which options he really has. I really think that Alonso wants to win the WDC with Ferrari and vice versa, but I am not in their minds so, who knows?

[discover23]

It is non-sensical to use Massa as the standard to rate what Raikkonen the driver is overall. Alonso has made it very clear on what his take on intra-team rivalry is in one of the press conferences in 2006, I think. He said something to the effect of - in such tightly contested competition in F1, all the focus in a team must go to the lead driver to maximize their chances, no point with intra-team fight and compromising yourself. It was already clear by his action earlier, but he explicitly said things like those. Alonso went to Ferrari in 2009 because that was his only viable option. He is willing to go to Red Bull not to challenge Vettel, but he feels it would be better to fight for the top prize against Vettel with an equal car rather than slower car. This is a feeling arising out of no option. Not because he is willing to take on the best drivers on equal terms. That is just not there in Alonso's DNA.

Alonso had the option to sign for RedBull in 09 and he turned it down.
Your second part makes no logic sense not matter how many times your try to wordsmith it .
Any driver would want to drive for the team which has the fastest car. There is more indication actaully from kimi not stepping up to the challenge and being afraid of Vettel for not accepting their offer.

Edited by discover23, 28 August 2013 - 12:45.

[jstrains]

Where is the evidence of Alonso being afraid of a competitive teammate? According to some people here Alonso is afraid of everybody, Vettel, Hamilton, Perez, Raikkonen…I haven´t seen evidence of Alonso being afraid of Kimi, I’ve seen evidence of Alonso being afraid of not having a competitive car, but for some reason, evidence is ignored and “the Alonso is afraid of” mantra continues. He praised Massa and frankly, what did you expect him to do? “I would be delighted with Kimi replacing Massa who has been my teammate for four years”…really?

 

I remember that image of Alonso at the end of the Brazilian GP last year, looking at nowhere, something like “what else can I do?”, this season the car was great until Spain, then downhill again. The things Alonso says, his body language, for God’s sake, the man is frustrated, it´s quite obvious.

 

Nobody knows if the car is too much track dependent, not even Alonso according to his own words, so what has happened in Belgium could be an isolated case…or not.  As a Ferrari supporter I have to say that no matter if Alonso leaves and Kimi joins the team, Ferrari won´t win the WDC (and probably the WCC either) if they don´t have a competitive car.

 

I focus my analysis on facts and facts indicate that Alonso problems with Ferrari are not related to whoever joins the team. I think that if the car improves and is really competitive till the end of the season, Alonso will stay, no matter his teammate, if the car continues with ups and downs…I don´t know, Alonso probably will stay even so, it will depend on which options he really has. I really think that Alonso wants to win the WDC with Ferrari and vice versa, but I am not in their minds so, who knows?

 

True true. It must take a lot of motivation to overcome all those WDC loses and find new motivation again

 

[trogggy]

Alonso had the option to sign for RedBull in 09 and he turned it down.

Probably didn't check his crystal ball.

[Kvothe]

Um...Both McLaren drivers missed the WDC by 1 point that year & would've won the WCC if not for getting themselves excluded. That's not down to the drivers.

 

Whitmarsh:

 

Actually had McLaren not been disqualified, they would missed out the WCC, courtesy of the constructor points lost after Hamilton's and Alonso's Hungary qualifying ding dong.

Edited by Kvothe, 28 August 2013 - 13:21.

[mlsnoopy]

Actually had McLaren not been disqualified, they would missed out the WCC, courtesy of the constructor points lost after Hamilton's and Alonso's Hungary qualifying ding dong.

 

Wasn't that because they ran a gearbox that wasn't crashtested?

[El_Rápido]

To me, having followed Fernando for many years now, what is really telling is not necesarily what is coming out of his mouth, but the way he is reacting to things. Take SPA for example, when he was coming out of the car, at the end of the GP, he was visibly disappointed even though he was second and gained points on Kimmy. What is even more telling is what his circle of "fans" (Lobato, De la Rosa, et cetera) are now saying, even repeating, on the air, that Fernando looks "disappointed", "let down", et cetera.  It's no secret that Alonson plays them like a flute, so I wouldn't be surprised if Lobato is pretty much passing on what he was told to pass on to the public.

 

Kind of like what they did when Fernando wanted out of McLaren: built a case around him.

Edited by El_Rápido, 28 August 2013 - 13:38.

[Totall73]

I was merely wondering which came first the Kimi has signed for Ferrari (by SuomF1) or the LdM rebuke and Alonsos tweet.
If someones says they know for a fact that Kimi has signed for Ferrari isn't a serious rumour then what is?

The suomif1.com article of Kimi's contract came 1.8. and rebuking article was published on Ferrari site 29.7.

[fabr68]

To me, having followed Fernando for many years now, what is really telling is not necesarily what is coming out of his mouth, but the way he is reacting to things.

For goodness sake. Now Alonso must wear a burqa to prevent his detractors from criticizing and bashing him for anything and everything.

Can we just focus on what Alonso actually says? Crystal balls have a tendency to be trolly...

[SpaMaster]

Alonso had the option to sign for RedBull in 09 and he turned it down.
 

Yeah? What idea would Alonso have had about Red Bull in 2008? That they would be winning 3-4 consecutive championships? Nope. That was the team that was loitering around with DC and Webber and battling for 6th and 8th positions. BMW was the third best team at that time and they were not even close the performance levels of McLaren and Ferrari. So, yes, Ferrari was the only viable option for him.
 

 

Your second part makes no logic sense not matter how many times your try to wordsmith it .
Any driver would want to drive for the team which has the fastest car. There is more indication actaully from kimi not stepping up to the challenge and being afraid of Vettel for not accepting their offer.

 

Alonso does not like competitive teammates. It may make no logical sense to some Alonso fans, whereas other fans think of it as the secod nature of Alonso. Alonso himself has said something to this effect like I mentioned. You are free to live in denial.