939 replies to this topic

[lars75]

MetallurgicalHedonist, on 12 Aug 2014 - 17:11, said:

Not good, to be honest.

If he is now in that RB programme he won't ever have the possibility to start with a great car in F1. At least two years in shitty cars (TR) and subsequently he has to go to the RedBull team. And if RedBull's spot in the limelight should be over from 2015 or 2016 onwards (meaning only as strong as they were in 2006-2008), then his career could be severly damaged.

No good decision at all.

 

And what did Mercedes achieve the last few decades in F1?

[lars75]

JHSingo, on 12 Aug 2014 - 17:21, said:

2104? Jesus. That is taking preparation to the next level, although I do fear he could be past it by then...

 

The way some are hyping Verstappen, I'm predicting nothing less than a dominant championship victory in his début season.

 

hahaha i'm sorry!

 

Tell that to Helmut Marko who is hyping Max Verstappen!

[lars75]

Well that's a nice season for Belgium and the Netherlands for the 2015 F1 season!

 

STR

Kvyat and Verstappen

 

Sauber

vd Garde and Bianchi

 

Marussia

Nasr and Vandoorne

 

Caterham

Sainz jr and Frijns

 

Seems a little unlikely, but never the less not unpossible!

[noikeee]

I don't think signing for Red Bull, particularly at this time, is smart. For most drivers it would be, because it's a choice between Red Bull or nothing, but Max was known to have had at least another offer from Mercedes...

 

He's going to have to fight a bunch of the absolute finest drivers around, which haven't made a name for themselves (I'm thinking the likes of Kvyat and Vergne - as Ricciardo has proven by coming "from nowhere"), therefore prone to killing his career if he fails; and perform at the exact perfect time opportunities show up, as Red Bull demand. And opportunities shouldn't open up anytime soon as Vettel, Ricciardo, Kvyat will have precedence to their top 2 seats for years and years to come... good luck.

[Juan Kerr]

Normally this news would mean carrying on in the lower formula like for example Jann Mardenborough who join the RedBull program and will never get to F1. Drivers like Verstappen come from nowhere and normally upset the form book ala Raikkonen. If Max has turned down Mercedes in GP2 (if that is the case) then considering how prolific Mercedes are in F1 at the moment you've got to wonder what it is that made him decide to go Red Bull. It can only mean one thing for me and that is F1. Why the hell else would he turn down the Merc backing with the more winning potential on current form and potentially higher salary? GP2 is equal to the other choices as the step before F1 so I cannot see any other solution.
Max Verstappen to Toro Rosso

[rsaca]

Juan Kerr, on 12 Aug 2014 - 20:38, said:

Normally this news would mean carrying on in the lower formula like for example Jann Mardenborough who join the RedBull program and will never get to F1. Drivers like Verstappen come from nowhere and normally upset the form book ala Raikkonen. If Max has turned down Mercedes in GP2 (if that is the case) then considering how prolific Mercedes are in F1 at the moment you've got to wonder what it is that made him decide to go Red Bull. It can only mean one thing for me and that is F1. Why the hell else would he turn down the Merc backing with the more winning potential on current form and potentially higher salary? GP2 is equal to the other choices as the step before F1 so I cannot see any other solution.
Max Verstappen to Toro Rosso

 

Not only that.

 

Why would he go to compete into a group of talented guys like Alex Lynn and Carlos Sainz Jr. instead of going with Mercedes without any competition?

 

Looks to me the loser here is Carlos Sainz Jr. to the Toro Rosso seat. Even if Carlos gets the seat for 2015, he might get bumped for Max for 2016 if Max keeps his performance on FR3.5/GP2/GP3.

Edited by rsaca, 12 August 2014 - 20:48.

[noikeee]

Money, maybe?

 

I'm hoping you guys are wrong and he hasn't signed for them on the promise of a F1 seat next year. Seriously that'd be insane. Can't see why at least a year of WSR would hurt.

[Juan Kerr]

The thing is the spotlight is well and truly on him now, people have already been picking holes in his every move on track when this is supposed to be his racing car schooling years, this is where he actually learns his craft. It's like saying the Mona Lisa's nose was too big whilst watching Leonardo da Vinci pencil sketching his idea down beforehand. Max is already in the spotlight now and if he went to F3.5 he would be expected to dominate it whereas there are factors that stop him doing that beyond his control that would not help his value. As with Kvyat and Magnussen you're better off throwing him into F1 right now and giving him more time to develop right there instead of giving him time to develop beforehand and expecting him to work miracles then straight away in F1 when circumstances could hold him back.

Throw him straight in at the deep end, there is no other way with talent like that, he's no Sam Bird or Alex Lynn or Jake Dennis he is a talented Kart racer that's all he is and look what he's doing? 

[Arundo]

Thats exactly my thought Juan Kerr.

 

I too hope he joins Toro Rosso next year, why ? Because in the Toro Rosso Max can try for atleast two years, seeing most Toro Rosso drivers spend atleast two years in the team.

 

In any other class like GP2 and FR3.5 he would be over if he fails in the first year, look at where Da Costa now is.

 

I would say go for F1, is the same gamble as GP2 and FR3.5 but atleast your in F1.

Edited by Arundo, 12 August 2014 - 21:13.

[JeePee]

rsaca, on 12 Aug 2014 - 20:46, said:

Why would he go to compete into a group of talented guys like Alex Lynn and Carlos Sainz Jr. instead of going with Mercedes without any competition?

 

Because he is confident and thinks he can handle Lynn and Sainz? Because he thinks he is the best in the world? The only mindset acceptable for becoming an F1 world champ someday?

 

And the F1-in-2015-idea is cool. I believe that if Red Bull lets him play with a FR3.5 a few days and then let him test for STR at the YDT and pre-season testing, he will find his way around Australia pretty handy in 2015.

[Seanspeed]

noikeee, on 12 Aug 2014 - 20:18, said:

I don't think signing for Red Bull, particularly at this time, is smart. For most drivers it would be, because it's a choice between Red Bull or nothing, but Max was known to have had at least another offer from Mercedes...
 
He's going to have to fight a bunch of the absolute finest drivers around, which haven't made a name for themselves (I'm thinking the likes of Kvyat and Vergne - as Ricciardo has proven by coming "from nowhere"), therefore prone to killing his career if he fails; and perform at the exact perfect time opportunities show up, as Red Bull demand. And opportunities shouldn't open up anytime soon as Vettel, Ricciardo, Kvyat will have precedence to their top 2 seats for years and years to come... good luck.

This whole 'what if he doesn't perform well?' thing has to stop. Them's the breaks. If he doesn't perform well, then that's on him, isn't it? If he doesn't perform well, then maybe he isn't deserving of the hype he's gotten. That's how this all works. There is no 'safe' route to F1, nor is there a single safe seat on the F1 grid. You've gotta get yourself in there and show what you've got.

EDIT: Am I seriously reading people expecting/hoping for him to be in F1 next year? lol Come on guys.

Edited by Seanspeed, 12 August 2014 - 21:37.

[rsaca]

JeePee, on 12 Aug 2014 - 21:28, said:

Because he is confident and thinks he can handle Lynn and Sainz? Because he thinks he is the best in the world? The only mindset acceptable for becoming an F1 world champ someday?

 

And the F1-in-2015-idea is cool. I believe that if Red Bull lets him play with a FR3.5 a few days and then let him test for STR at the YDT and pre-season testing, he will find his way around Australia pretty handy in 2015.

 

My question was more rhetoric replying back to which factors really affected his decision to go Red Bull over Mercedes.

 

I have confidence that Max won't botch his next season like Sainz did in 2013 in GP3. If I was in his shoes, I'd choose Red Bull too. They have a track record of giving good opportunity to very good drivers and it gives you prestige as a young racing driver. I'd sit Max in both Red Bull and Toro Rosso at the YTD. I think that was one of the key drivers for his decision. 

[noikeee]

Seanspeed, on 12 Aug 2014 - 21:35, said:

This whole 'what if he doesn't perform well?' thing has to stop. Them's the breaks. If he doesn't perform well, then that's on him, isn't it? If he doesn't perform well, then maybe he isn't deserving of the hype he's gotten. That's how this all works. There is no 'safe' route to F1, nor is there a single safe seat on the F1 grid. You've gotta get yourself in there and show what you've got.

EDIT: Am I seriously reading people expecting/hoping for him to be in F1 next year? lol Come on guys.

 

I get what you mean that you can't be afraid of, and protected from competition, but at the same time, there's different levels of "performing well". If you perform okay-ish next to a crap driver with a good name, you'll probably beat him and still look really good. If you perform the same next to a beast of a driver who wasn't made his name yet, you're gone. It's particularly relevant on Red Bull's harsh ladder system as it all seems to depend on do-or-die moments, how well you perform at the exact time a vacancy is about to open up. All drivers are humans and are prone to patches of lesser form unless they're better than Senna, so it's not entirely dumb to entertain the thought that it could happen.

 

Besides, we could also spin this the other way around and look at it from the most optimistic way possible - let's assume Max really is the next Senna and is going to be ready to kill everyone in F1 in 3 years time. Would he rather be in Red Bull, who will have either Ricciardo/Vettel or Ricciardo/Kvyat as an established duo well in their 20s, with little reason to be replaced even if there's an - unproven - superstar doing really well at Toro Rosso; at Mercedes where Rosberg and Hamilton will be in their 30s and fed up to death of each other, likely about to implode; or at Ferrari where Alonso will be well past his best in his late 30s and likely paired with a random like Bianchi or something? I don't know what anyone else thinks, but Red Bull really doesn't look like the most attractive to me in this list.

 

That's what I mean by taking competition into consideration... it doesn't mean you need to be afraid of it.

[Juan Kerr]

noikeee, on 12 Aug 2014 - 21:58, said:

I get what you mean that you can't be afraid of, and protected from competition, but at the same time, there's different levels of "performing well". If you perform okay-ish next to a crap driver with a good name, you'll probably beat him and still look really good. If you perform the same next to a beast of a driver who wasn't made his name yet, you're gone. It's particularly relevant on Red Bull's harsh ladder system as it all seems to depend on do-or-die moments, how well you perform at the exact time a vacancy is about to open up. All drivers are humans and are prone to patches of lesser form unless they're better than Senna, so it's not entirely dumb to entertain the thought that it could happen.

 

Besides, we could also spin this the other way around and look at it from the most optimistic way possible - let's assume Max really is the next Senna and is going to be ready to kill everyone in F1 in 3 years time. Would he rather be in Red Bull, who will have either Ricciardo/Vettel or Ricciardo/Kvyat as an established duo well in their 20s, with little reason to be replaced even if there's an - unproven - superstar doing really well at Toro Rosso; at Mercedes where Rosberg and Hamilton will be in their 30s and fed up to death of each other, likely about to implode; or at Ferrari where Alonso will be well past his best in his late 30s and likely paired with a random like Bianchi or something? I don't know what anyone else thinks, but Red Bull really doesn't look like the most attractive to me in this list.

 

That's what I mean by taking competition into consideration... it doesn't mean you need to be afraid of it.

Well that's what I'm saying really the Mercedes propositions whatever it was should've been the best one since they're doing so well and their F1 drivers are bound to get fed up with each others achievments and on a lesser note pay more. Since he has taken the Red Bull proposition we must assume it's an F1 drive at the age of 17.

Edited by Juan Kerr, 12 August 2014 - 23:15.

[lbennie]

Not really, maybe he thinks red bull will be a top team for years to come. I'm sure Renault will have a decent engine at the second attempt.

[noikeee]

Juan Kerr, on 12 Aug 2014 - 23:14, said:

Well that's what I'm saying really the Mercedes propositions whatever it was should've been the best one since they're doing so well and their F1 drivers are bound to get fed up with each others achievments and on a lesser note pay more. Since he has taken the Red Bull proposition we must assume it's an F1 drive at the age of 17.

 

I think you might be right, I'm struggling to see what else could have made him sign for Red Bull over Mercedes. Even if it doesn't involve a F1 ride soon, I wouldn't have chosen Red Bull (unless there's other factors we don't know about); and if it does involve a Toro Rosso seat next year then that's just total lunacy.

[lbennie]

noikeee, on 12 Aug 2014 - 23:45, said:

I think you might be right, I'm struggling to see what else could have made him sign for Red Bull over Mercedes. Even if it doesn't involve a F1 ride soon, I wouldn't have chosen Red Bull (unless there's other factors we don't know about); and if it does involve a Toro Rosso seat next year then that's just total lunacy.

 

How many Merc juniors have made it into a top F1 team though. I think he can see that Red Bull have a much better track record with promoting juniors to their top team and be able to produce a competitive car over many years.

[Max!]

Maybe Max was promised a STR seat after all if Sainz gets parked in a Caterham.

Portuguese Autosport claims that Helmut Marko, Colin Kolles and Sainz Jr had a meeting in Silverstone to manage the possibility of the Spaniard be in a Caterham's car next year.

[maximilian]

Maybe RedBull already knows Vettel is leaving them, so they are preparing for a Ricciardo/Kvyat pairing... with Sainz and Verstappen filling the gaps at Toro Rosso?  Massive amount of talent in those 4, I must say.

[lbennie]

Max!, on 13 Aug 2014 - 00:22, said:

Maybe Max was promised a STR seat after all if Sainz gets parked in a Caterham.

Portuguese Autosport claims that Helmut Marko, Colin Kolles and Sainz Jr had a meeting in Silverstone to manage the possibility of the Spaniard be in a Caterham's car next year.

 

This is why he chose RB imo.

They have 4 seats on their own teams + they are willing to buy seats at the back of the grid to get their juniors car time. No other young driver program can hold a candle to that.

 

+ it is quite obvious the Red Bull has at least equal best chassis & is just being held back by a frozen regulation which can be sorted out before next season.

[JeePee]

Dutch media reports is a done deal. "A source inside Torro Rosso confirmed to us..."

They say it will be announced before Spa.

 

He will be 17 years and 164 days when Australia starts.

 

http://www.telegraaf...ormule_1__.html

[lbennie]

Vettel must be goneskis then.

[ElJefe]

It's all over the Dutch media that Max will make his debut in F1 next season for Toro Rosso. I'm Dutch, but I'm a bit sceptical. He has incredible talent, but how will his body cope with two hour races? How will he manage his tyres and fuel? All elements that he hasn't trained in F3...

[lars75]

ElJefe, on 13 Aug 2014 - 07:09, said:

It's all over the Dutch media that Max will make his debut in F1 next season for Toro Rosso. I'm Dutch, but I'm a bit sceptical. He has incredible talent, but how will his body cope with two hour races? How will he manage his tyres and fuel? All elements that he hasn't trained in F3...

 

Well he can train, isn't it? And trust  me, they don't throw him in to F1 like this, they will prepare him well!!!

 

In Holland ther is a saying: "Beren op de weg zien"

 

It means people see problems that aint there!

 

Look at Kimi's career, it is possible!!!

[Requiem84]

I would actually laugh for a whole day if Jos' is able not only to ruin his own potential great career, but that of his potentially much better son as well.

 

That would be quite a nice accomplishment.

 

In holland there is another saying; A donkey doesn't bump into the same rock twice'. Well, perhaps we can conclude in a year or three that Jos isn't a Donkey after all .

 

But hopefully Max is so exceptional he will prove me wrong.

[Jackmancer]

ElJefe, on 13 Aug 2014 - 07:09, said:

It's all over the Dutch media that Max will make his debut in F1 next season for Toro Rosso. I'm Dutch, but I'm a bit sceptical. He has incredible talent, but how will his body cope with two hour races? How will he manage his tyres and fuel? All elements that he hasn't trained in F3...

 

It's De Telegraaf who's saying this. If you buy this newspaper you waste money.

 

I'd like to believe it, but it's by no means a credible source.

[JeePee]

Jackmancer, on 13 Aug 2014 - 07:56, said:

It's De Telegraaf who's saying this. If you buy this newspaper you waste money.

 

I'd like to believe it, but it's by no means a credible source.

True. But Jos is saying: "Now we are going to talk with Red Bull to see what is possible within their program"... Yeah, like they haven't done that already haha   Pretty lame secrecy.

Edited by JeePee, 13 August 2014 - 08:06.

[ElJefe]

Although De Telegraaf's news section and the showbiz drivel is generally not worth the paper it's written on, they are usually right when it comes to Dutch sports rumours, whether it's football or F1. 

[lbennie]

Oh right, so probably just fridays then?

 

thought you meant a race seat.

[lars75]

Requiem84, on 13 Aug 2014 - 07:33, said:

I would actually laugh for a whole day if Jos' is able not only to ruin his own potential great career, but that of his potentially much better son as well.

 

That would be quite a nice accomplishment.

 

In holland there is another saying; A donkey doesn't bump into the same rock twice'. Well, perhaps we can conclude in a year or three that Jos isn't a Donkey after all .

 

But hopefully Max is so exceptional he will prove me wrong.

 

Jesus Christ, why are the Dutch people always so happy to see someone fail? Are always look at the dark side of things?

 

He goes to STR and not RBR! He will be prepared before his debut and if not, ther will be no debut!

 

I take Kimi Raikkonen as reference for what is possible, if other people will take bad examples please do so!!!

[babbel]

[Jarninho]

Why do so many people think Jos ruined his own career? I think he got close to the maximum out of it. He stepped into a Benetton that only Schumacher could handle. Much more experienced and praised F1 drivers like Herbert and Lehto couldn't handle it either. Later Jos lost the battle with Mika Salo and he got outqualified by Pedro de la Rosa and Enrique Bernoldi. If Jos was really an exceptional talent, he should have won from those guys. He was in F1 for almost a decade and in those years he had many opportunities to prove himself, but ultimately, he didn't.

If Max gets the TR seat, that would be an exceptional chance. He gets a very good, but also young team mate that's getting some praise this year. But it's far from impossible to beat him. The team is used to working with young rookies and the car is capable of scoring points and making an impression. If he gets the chance, it would be an unreal situation, but what else is new with this guy.

[Jejking]

Jep, going to be a plunge in the deep. But I somehow doubt he's going to drive for STR in 2015. The step is just too big.

[ElJefe]

lars75, on 13 Aug 2014 - 08:11, said:

Jesus Christ, why are the Dutch people always so happy to see someone fail? Are always look at the dark side of things?

 

He goes to STR and not RBR! He will be prepared before his debut and if not, ther will be no debut!

 

I take Kimi Raikkonen as reference for what is possible, if other people will take bad examples please do so!!!

I'm not happy to see him fail. I wish him the best of luck, but some Dutchies tend to overestimate their compatriots: there are so many unknowns in this story, but people like you almost seem to expect that he will the WDC next year. Just calm down and see how everything pans out. It wouldn't be the first time that we would put too much pressure on a great talent, only for him to succumb to unrealistic expectations. 

[JeePee]

Nobody expects him to be a WDC next year. Not Lars, not me, not the incoming Dutch Fanatics. We just don't expect him to fail and we don't think the step is 'too big'. And it doesn't hurt being excited, right?

Edited by JeePee, 13 August 2014 - 08:21.

[lars75]

ElJefe, on 13 Aug 2014 - 08:16, said:

I'm not happy to see him fail. I wish him the best of luck, but some Dutchies tend to overestimate their compatriots: there are so many unknowns in this story, but people like you almost seem to expect that he will the WDC next year. Just calm down and see how everything pans out. It wouldn't be the first time that we would put too much pressure on a great talent, only for him to succumb to unrealistic expectations. 

 

The problem is that I don't expect anything out of it! He could fail he could rise, so what!

 

You're not happy to see him fail, means to me that you're more fanatic then that I am.

 

The only thing I'm saying is that the people surrounding Max are more capable of judjing if he is ready to jump to F1 then we are. They will train and develope him when possible to do the job when needed. WWhen he aint ready, he will not get the seat. Time will tell if it was the wrong or wright call.

 

Untill that day I grab hold on the possible Kimi career, rather then (not bad either with more then 100GP's) his fathers career.

 

It's the way I approach things in live. Always search for the best and expect the worse!

[Brandz07]

Juan Kerr, on 12 Aug 2014 - 20:38, said:

Normally this news would mean carrying on in the lower formula like for example Jann Mardenborough who join the RedBull program and will never get to F1. Drivers like Verstappen come from nowhere and normally upset the form book ala Raikkonen. If Max has turned down Mercedes in GP2 (if that is the case) then considering how prolific Mercedes are in F1 at the moment you've got to wonder what it is that made him decide to go Red Bull. It can only mean one thing for me and that is F1. Why the hell else would he turn down the Merc backing with the more winning potential on current form and potentially higher salary? GP2 is equal to the other choices as the step before F1 so I cannot see any other solution.
Max Verstappen to Toro Rosso

Jann's not part of the junior program.

[ElJefe]

lars75, on 13 Aug 2014 - 08:29, said:

The problem is that I don't expect anything out of it! He could fail he could rise, so what!

 

You're not happy to see him fail, means to me that you're more fanatic then that I am.

 

The only thing I'm saying is that the people surrounding Max are more capable of judjing if he is ready to jump to F1 then we are. They will train and develope him when possible to do the job when needed. WWhen he aint ready, he will not get the seat. Time will tell if it was the wrong or wright call.

 

Untill that day I grab hold on the possible Kimi career, rather then (not bad either with more then 100GP's) his fathers career.

 

It's the way I approach things in live. Always search for the best and expect the worse!

I honestly don't care if he fails or succeeds. If he manages to be successful: good for him and I would cheer him on provided he isn't the douchebag his father was. If he fails: I wouldn't miss a night's sleep because of it. I'm just cautious of any Dutch F1 ambitions - remember Spyker? Albers? Verstappen Sr.? Even Frijns, despite his talent? All talk but little action. That's why for once I hope that he can sort of stay out of the limelight and mature without all the Verstappen fanatics constantly putting pressure on this kid.

[MikeV1987]

he made the right choice imo

Edited by MikeV1987, 13 August 2014 - 09:00.

[Humbug]

ElJefe, on 13 Aug 2014 - 08:41, said:

I honestly don't care if he fails or succeeds. If he manages to be successful: good for him and I would cheer him on provided he isn't the douchebag his father was. If he fails: I wouldn't miss a night's sleep because of it. I'm just cautious of any Dutch F1 ambitions - remember Spyker? Albers? Verstappen Sr.? Even Frijns, despite his talent? All talk but little action. That's why for once I hope that he can sort of stay out of the limelight and mature without all the Verstappen fanatics constantly putting pressure on this kid.

Could not agree more. And I am Dutch.

[lars75]

ElJefe, on 13 Aug 2014 - 08:41, said:

I honestly don't care if he fails or succeeds. If he manages to be successful: good for him and I would cheer him on provided he isn't the douchebag his father was. If he fails: I wouldn't miss a night's sleep because of it. I'm just cautious of any Dutch F1 ambitions - remember Spyker? Albers? Verstappen Sr.? Even Frijns, despite his talent? All talk but little action. That's why for once I hope that he can sort of stay out of the limelight and mature without all the Verstappen fanatics constantly putting pressure on this kid.

 

You said "I'm not happy to see him fai" didn't you? Now you're saying you don't give a ****????

 

Make up your mind!

 

His father drove more then 100GP's and ther about 80 more former F1 drivers who have ever done that! So what do you mean by a pore career? He didn't make the most of it, thats a fact. But it wasn't that bad either!

 

We will see what his future will bring. Maybe he will be the next best thing and maybe he is out within one or two years.

 

My guess is that you realy are afraid of him not succeding and wish him to be carefull.

 

I trust the people surrounding him to make the wright choices and see where it will lead him.

[Humbug]

lars75, on 13 Aug 2014 - 09:34, said:

You said "I'm not happy to see him fai" didn't you? Now you're saying you don't give a ****????

 

Make up your mind!

 

His father drove more then 100GP's and ther about 80 more former F1 drivers who have ever done that! So what do you mean by a pore career? He didn't make the most of it, thats a fact. But it wasn't that bad either!

 

We will see what his future will bring. Maybe he will be the next best thing and maybe he is out within one or two years.

 

My guess is that you realy are afraid of him not succeding and wish him to be carefull.

 

I trust the people surrounding him to make the wright choices and see where it will lead him.

 

 

 

 

 

Come on Lars, Verstappen sr. was an average F1-driver. It is quite an achievement that with his talent he made it to a hundred GP's. For example he lost the battle with teammate Salo and lost qualifyingduels with de la Rosa en Bernoldi. All average drivers also. I don't think Jos could have achieved more. There was no more in it. Max looks to have more potential though, although Jos looked to have "something special" when driving in juniorclasses too. And now you can say; "he did not have that". So we have to see how it works out for Max.

[lars75]

Humbug, on 13 Aug 2014 - 09:51, said:

Come on Lars, Verstappen sr. was an average F1-driver. It is quite an achievement that with his talent he made it to a hundred GP's. For example he lost the battle with teammate Salo and lost qualifyingduels with de la Rosa en Bernoldi. All average drivers also. I don't think Jos could have achieved more. There was no more in it. Max looks to have more potential though, although Jos looked to have "something special" when driving in juniorclasses too. And now you can say; "he did not have that". So we have to see how it works out for Max.

 

You're totally wright!!! I don't even argue with you with that kind of stupid remarks. If he was that of a pore talent, he didn't bring any money, why did all the teams contract him and why were the people he worked with so fond of him?

 

Salo was a very decent driver and Jos didn't qualify that good indeed. But in his days Jos was one of the best drivers in the pack! A like that kind of drivers and prefer them more then Alonso instead. I like the Montoya, Villeneuve, Verstappen, Piquet sr, Hunt kind of drivers. Scoring titles is not my benchmark in F1, it's showing teeth and go for the gap of and on track!

Edited by lars75, 13 August 2014 - 10:02.

[Humbug]

lars75, on 13 Aug 2014 - 09:59, said:

You're totally wright!!! I don't even argue with you with that kind of stupid remarks. If he was that of a pore talent, he didn't bring any money, why did all the teams contract him and why were the people he worked with so fond of him?

 

Salo was a very decent driver and Jos didn't qualify that good indeed. But in his days Jos was one of the best drivers in the pack! A like that kind of drivers and prefer them more then Alonso instead. I like the Montoya, Villeneuve, Verstappen, Piquet sr, Hunt kind of drivers. Scoring titles is not my benchmark in F1, it's showing teeth and go for the gap of and on track!

Little bit dissapointed that you qualify my reply as stupid remarks. And i never said that he was a poor talent. And that Jos was one of the best drivers of the pack is your opinion that does not fit with his statistics. He was very often spectacular though. Good, but not one of the best. And that's my opinion.

[Requiem84]

This thread has shown the true definition of Fanboy once again.

[TheRacingElf]

Lars75 please calm down a bit, just because you are a Verstappen fan-boy doesn't automatically mean you are right. Besides that, this topic isn't about Jos, it is about his son Max..

[lars75]

Humbug, on 13 Aug 2014 - 10:12, said:

Little bit dissapointed that you qualify my reply as stupid remarks. And i never said that he was a poor talent. And that Jos was one of the best drivers of the pack is your opinion that does not fit with his statistics. He was very often spectacular though. Good, but not one of the best. And that's my opinion.

 

hahaha statistics are nothing when you not analyse them correctly, otherwise it are just numbers!

 

The way I rate drivers is different from much other people. I don't look at wins and titles for the rating I look at the fact if they give you a thrill when watching them.

[EightGear]

I'm sorry to all non-Dutch people for the behaviour of some of my countrymen.

[TheRacingElf]

EightGear, on 13 Aug 2014 - 10:39, said:

I'm sorry to all non-Dutch people for the behaviour of some of my countrymen.

Amen

[lars75]

Bibabob, on 13 Aug 2014 - 10:28, said:

Lars75 please calm down a bit, just because you are a Verstappen fan-boy doesn't automatically mean you are right. Besides that, this topic isn't about Jos, it is about his son Max..

 

I'm not a fanboy as in the meaning of having model cars, caps, posters and things like that. But I do like Verstappen, Montoya and that kind of drivers. I also defended Heidfeld when people talked trash about him! Thats because people are to blinded by titles and victories in my upinion, and don't know what thes guys realy have to do for their career. I'm saying for years, in the F1 (more then elsewhere) it doesn't mather what you know, but who you know that dicedes your career!