69 replies to this topic

[Henri Greuter]

Henri Greuter, on 13 May 2014 - 09:24, said:

427mkIV,

 

I must backtrack on my comment about the IRL logos in the Menard cars. I have checked my pictures of the cars I have and I can't identify such logos beyound doubt on them.

I know I have seen the logo already in 1994 but then it must have been somewhere else.

 

As for Menard cars wearing IRL logos, I have also checked the 1995 Hungness for puctures of the cars and on one shot I could see an IRL decal on the car. I recall having read in one of the yearbooks that the menard cars were prominently wearing an IRL logo already, but I don't know anymore if it was in either the 1994 orr 1995 Hungness or Indy review.

I think I messed up big time and confused 1994 with 1995. Might have something to do with all the stuff I've read to write an article for 8W about what for many is the biggest controversy of the 1995 race. But by now I knew there is an ever bigger one.

 

 

Henri

 

 

IRL decals on Menard cars:

to close it off:

 

I started to do some reading in the 95 Hungness:  Page 13, left column, about 3/4 th of the page.

There you can find where/why I went wrong

 

Henri

[red stick]

Fascinating book that does an excellent job of explaining the technical (and there's a lot of it) to the not-so-technically inclined.  Speaking as a Penske fan, this and Nigel Bennett's book are a godsend.

[JadeGurss]

Stick -  Thanks for the kind words. The goal was to give the technical details but written in a way that those who weren't mechanics or engineers could understand. (I called it the M.O.M. Rule: my mom had to understand it!) Patrick Morgan's CAD illustrations helped as well. 

 

jade.

 

 

red stick, on 13 May 2014 - 17:43, said:

Fascinating book that does an excellent job of explaining the technical (and there's a lot of it) to the not-so-technically inclined.  Speaking as a Penske fan, this and Nigel Bennett's book are a godsend.

[Nigel Beresford]

Henri Greuter, on 13 May 2014 - 09:24, said:

427mkIV,

 

I must backtrack on my comment about the IRL logos in the Menard cars. I have checked my pictures of the cars I have and I can't identify such logos beyound doubt on them.

I know I have seen the logo already in 1994 but then it must have been somewhere else.

 

As for Menard cars wearing IRL logos, I have also checked the 1995 Hungness for puctures of the cars and on one shot I could see an IRL decal on the car. I recall having read in one of the yearbooks that the menard cars were prominently wearing an IRL logo already, but I don't know anymore if it was in either the 1994 orr 1995 Hungness or Indy review.

I think I messed up big time and confused 1994 with 1995. 

 

As you know Henri, I took a sabbatical from Penske for '95, and I definitely know I saw the IRL logo somewhere in Gasoline Alley before that time. It must therefore have been in '94, because we didn't go back until we had the shadow involvement with Tredway in 2000. You're not going mad....

[Henri Greuter]

Nigel Beresford, on 13 May 2014 - 19:00, said:

As you know Henri, I took a sabbatical from Penske for '95, and I definitely know I saw the IRL logo somewhere in Gasoline Alley before that time. It must therefore have been in '94, because we didn't go back until we had the shadow involvement with Tredway in 2000. You're not going mad....

 

 

Hey Nigel,

 

I am puzzled where and when I saw that IRL symbol in 1994, I could have sworn that I took a picture of it on the car in question but fact is that when I went through my scrapbooks (and I have some thick ones about 1994) I didn't find a picture.

Nut I did find the confirmation about Menarc using them in 1995 and I guess I know how I was remembered about that. and somehow that brought the thoughts about having seen them in 1994 already.

 

Perhaps that logo was in one of the garages that was used by IMS/USAC afficials staff and/or dept? It was there, I'm sure of that.

 

 

Henri

[Nigel Beresford]

I'm pretty sure that's where I saw it - on one of the buildings near the filling station.

[Patrick Morgan]

Treadway in 2000?? What was that deal? I didn't hear about that I don't think.... then again I was rather distracted with out little team trying to sort out the Aurora by that stage. I did have Mark Swaverly over for a couple of days but that was about the only contact with Penske I had prior to Phoenix 2001.

 

That's another great story by the way - the run up to Indy 2001. Obviously at Ilmor we were in a terrible state on the Indycar side. Mercedes had pulled the plug and a load of really good guys were made redundant. Penske had jumped ship to Honda, Greg had his accident at the end of 1999 and that was horrible with all sorts of crap flying about. Then the 2000 CART season was really  very very tough and what was supposed to be a more conservative engine turned out to be very fragile.

Edited by Patrick Morgan, 14 May 2014 - 06:56.

[JadeGurss]

UPDATE: The book is now available for KINDLE at Amazon. http://x.co/4drWQ  Even better: with Amazon's new MatchBook program, if you have purchased the hardcover version of BEAST, you can get a Kindle copy of the book FREE!

 

Did I mention FREE? 

[Nigel Beresford]

Patrick, the Treadway deal in 2000 was a typical Penske information gathering exercise before mounting a proper (and ultimately successful) attempt on the 500 in 2001. Penske Auto Centers sponsored a Treadway GForce car driven by Jason Leffler. Ian Reed was sent to observe the effort and learn as much as he could about the subtleties of running in the IRL, which was very different from what we knew from running our CART type cars there. Later in the year we tested there with Gil and Helio in Treadway's car, which was the first time I personally had been back since doing a test with Al Jr. At the end of '94.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Patrick Morgan, on 13 May 2014 - 20:26, said:

Treadway in 2000?? What was that deal? I didn't hear about that I don't think.... then again I was rather distracted with out little team trying to sort out the Aurora by that stage. I did have Mark Swaverly over for a couple of days but that was about the only contact with Penske I had prior to Phoenix 2001.

 

That's another great story by the way - the run up to Indy 2001. Obviously at Ilmor we were in a terrible state on the Indycar side. Mercedes had pulled the plug and a load of really good guys were made redundant. Penske had jumped ship to Honda, Greg had his accident at the end of 1999 and that was horrible with all sorts of crap flying about. Then the 2000 CART season was really  very very tough and what was supposed to be a more conservative engine turned out to be very fragile.

 

Everyone should watch Cleveland 2001 if they get the chance.

 

1. Cleveland is just a fun track period

2. 2001 was a good race

3. You get to see Max Wilson in an Arciero Ilmor running really, surprisingly well.

[wildman]

ensign14, on 30 Apr 2014 - 09:24, said:

Blimey.  20 years?

 

It puts into perspective Buick's efforts under the same regulations...

Not precisely the same regulations. The original Buick V-6 Indy engines were ostensibly based on production blocks, but given the demonstrated shortcomings of this approach, for '94 Indy relaxed the rules for pushrod engines, creating the loophole that Ilmor was more than happy to exploit.

[Jack-the-Lad]

JadeGurss, on 15 May 2014 - 17:06, said:

UPDATE: The book is now available for KINDLE at Amazon. http://x.co/4drWQ  Even better: with Amazon's new MatchBook program, if you have purchased the hardcover version of BEAST, you can get a Kindle copy of the book FREE!

 

Did I mention FREE? 

I'm about half through the book and really enjoying it.  I'm curious if there was a Plan B in case Mercedes-Benz's support didn't come through.

 

Jack

[JadeGurss]

I do not believe there was a "Plan B." They were committed to it 100%. It likely would have run as an Ilmor-badged engine.

[Dennis Hockenbury]

Just finished this book yesterday. A great story which providing a very enjoyable look into the people and their commitment that achieved so much. Well written and highly recommended.

[SJ Lambert]

Received my copy "Down Under" last week & shipped it off to Dad for his birthday without getting a chance to digest it!!!  It sure looked good though!!!!

[Racer.Demon]

With 8W hosting Henri's monster work on Penske's epic 1994 Indy 500 win, we couldn't let this book go by without a review. Instead of Henri reviewing it himself, we thought it better if I as 8W's chief editor did the honours. Of course, comparing with Henri's work was my main goal but even if you haven't read his 30-part series you will still get an idea of the quality of Jade's book. Here's the review:

 

http://forix.autospo...ast-review.html

[427MkIV]

I just finished the book, reading it during lunch breaks at work. Very enjoyablle and informative. I read in Robin Miller's mailbag a couple of weeks ago the idea that the CART teams should have gone to the first IRL races, whipped the IRL teams and shut down the series then and there. Not much could have been worse than the open-wheel collapse that eventually happened, but what do you guys think? Would beating the IRL on its own tracks brought a quick end to the split? Miller said the CART teams were too busy selling their used cars to IRL teams to think of anything like that.

[Jack-the-Lad]

I read the book more than a year ago and if I remember correctly, Roger Penske was not interviewed. To me, this weakened an otherwise great story.

[Catalina Park]

Repeating the paint scraping myth weakened the story for me.

[Henri Greuter]

Jack-the-Lad, on 19 Jun 2015 - 01:19, said:

I read the book more than a year ago and if I remember correctly, Roger Penske was not interviewed. To me, this weakened an otherwise great story.

 

 

Take my word for it, you would be surprised to know how often people have to publish a book about a subject in which a still living person plays an important rule but his/her part  of the story is reduced, if actually not missing because this person, though still alive can't be interviewed for whatever reasons. reasons that can be anything between related with the person in question or simply sheer bad luck.

I know what I am talking about.....

This is not a suggestion of being negative about Roger P by the way, Definitely not. For my website in the 265D, I was very, very close to an opportunitiy to talk with him in a busy time for him about that engine, and then I got sick and couldn't  meet him after all. Turned out to be my one and only chance....

 

Sometimes it just doesn't work out one way or the other.

 

 

Henri

Edited by Henri Greuter, 19 June 2015 - 06:25.