151 replies to this topic

[LukeFrost17]

They initially had a good car at the start of testing.
They had a good race in Australia and they were even leading the constructors championship after Australia
Now they are struggling to even get points

What's gone wrong with the car?

[ollebompa]

Downforce, they need downforce.

[eronrules]

they need to UNLOCK THE POTENTIAL ... or atleast make a car that's potential isn't locked from the start of the season. 

[fed up]

No leadership

Jenson is clueless at developing a car and his public comments do not motivate or encourage the team

Magnussen is too young and in-experienced

Mercedes are probably dumbing down their supply engine

 

They will be back but I think they need to get rid of Button.

[sopa]

Downforce, they need downforce.

 

Where does downforce live? Where can they buy it? Or find it? Should they sign exclusive rights to the usage of downforce? Should they go to a faraway-land and look for downforce like gold-diggers?

[DainBramaged]

I think they are having problems understanding their car again. At the start of the year JB said they had a good base, but I don't think he's so convinced now. Its all very well saying downforce, but you can't just throw DF at it if you don't understand where the lack of balance is coming from. Not sure if they are having the same pronlem Ferrari had a couple years ago where there was poor correlation between the factory and the track. I don't even think McLaren really know why they are slow.

Edited by DainBramaged, 22 May 2014 - 15:46.

[oetzi]

A lot of established, senior people have left the team over the past three or four years. Which can make things tricky.

 

And now Ron is trying to reanimate the 1980s. It's kind of like a zombie Godzilla film with an ageing mechanic obsessively tidying the path to the undead monster's ultimate victory. Or defeat.

[clown]

McLaren use Mobil fuel instead the Petronas fuel used by the other Mercedes powered teams, which allegedly costs them a ton of power.

[Jon83]

Martin Whitmarsh is responsible for everything that has gone wrong at McLaren since 2008.

 

(at least that is what I read on here)

[sopa]

they need to UNLOCK THE POTENTIAL ... or atleast make a car that's potential isn't locked from the start of the season. 

 

So... where are the keys?

 

Did Whitmarsh take the keys with him when he left? Should Ron Dennis actually start a new operation for finding Whitmarsh and the keys?

Were the keys lost already before? Does anybody know? Should all the people at Woking go out and search all the rocks and bushes to register the possible location of keys? Maybe the keys are in Melbourne? Or Kuala Lumpur? It gets complicated...

 

Maybe the keys are actually stored in some locked drawer, and the OTHER keys - the drawer keys - are missing? The plot thickens...

[teejay]

Sam Michael

[Cyanide]

Key word: balance. 

[goingthedistance]

Sam Michael

Ha. We have a running joke in our house that Sam Michael is a curse for any team he moves to.

But more seriously I sense an air of desperation about McLaren at the moment. I think they need to take a step back and evaluate how to get everything working in concert.

[charly0418]

The speculation in this forum is pretty amazing, here's all I've read here:

 

- Simple, no downforce

- Simulator - track correlation is inexistent

- Fuel used by McLaren is causing some supposedly power issues

- Merc is to blame as they are not sharing information (lol)

- Jenson's fault for not leading development of the car

- Magnussen inexperience not helping car development (that was said by Jenson)

- Old Aero people left (even though they were the problem apparently)

- Random rants against people like Whitmarsh, Goss, Michael.

 

 

Did I miss anything?

[sopa]

Key word: balance. 

 

So McLaren needs to look for downforce, the keys and also balance. I heard Jenson Button has got exclusive rights to the usage of balance in the McLaren motorhome, so he is particularly furious when he has discovered his best friend - balance - has actually gone missing. McLaren is still not yet completely sure, why does balance go missing quite often. They have concluded it could be something like air or fluid, which can disappear when not stored in a bottle correctly.

[Cyanide]

[purplehaireddolphin]

I think this is a treading water year, they're probably already working on next years Honda powered car

[MikeV1987]

They'll be back when they are a works outfit again.

[discover23]

Martin Whitmarsh is responsible for everything that has gone wrong at McLaren since 2008.

 

(at least that is what I read on here)

They used to blame SD for Ferrari's issues but more people actually put the blame on Luca and the culture at Ferrari..

We should do the same in this case..

Is all because of Ron's management style of strict control..

[ollebompa]

Where does downforce live? Where can they buy it? Or find it? Should they sign exclusive rights to the usage of downforce? Should they go to a faraway-land and look for downforce like gold-diggers?

 

Go here:

 

Find him:

[DainBramaged]

I think this is a treading water year, they're probably already working on next years Honda powered car

They will still be starting from scratch again which will be a bit of a gamble (although there is no choice) as they won't be able to base next years car on much, if anything, they've done the previous 2 years. A great engine is all very well, but if they get lost on the mechanical and aero side again who's to say they will fair any better, plus Merc and RB will be building on what what they have this year.

[sopa]

The speculation in this forum is pretty amazing, here's all I've read here:

 

- Simple, no downforce

- Simulator - track correlation is inexistent

- Fuel used by McLaren is causing some supposedly power issues

- Merc is to blame as they are not sharing information (lol)

- Jenson's fault for not leading development of the car

- Magnussen inexperience not helping car development (that was said by Jenson)

- Old Aero people left (even though they were the problem apparently)

- Random rants against people like Whitmarsh, Goss, Michael.

 

 

Did I miss anything?

 

 

To understand the fundamental things and long trends, I believe things started to go backwards, when Mercedes announced that they were going to buy Brawn GP and McLaren would lose its factory team status. And the roots for this cause partly lie in 2007, because relations with Mercedes cooled due to the scandal. And secondly Mercedes wanted more power within McLaren.

 

We know Ron Dennis said that parting ways was the right decision for McLaren, because they needed to "build up their own car company business". And Ron didn't want to give away any power to outside-companies.

 

But turning into a pure private team was a danger for McLaren. Initially they had top drawer people, like Hamilton, Vodafone as the title sponsor, very good engineering department. But financially McLaren started having less depth, which meant other teams could start snapping up key people from McLaren, making them both better offers financially and better career-opportunities within their companies long-term. Pat Fry for instance was in McLaren in 2010 before moving to Ferrari (though Ferrari fans criticize him a lot now).

 

However, this long-trend has seen McLaren becoming a midfield team with barely any sponsors on them now. Their only hope is now Honda - and that the power and magic of Honda can bring back some of the depth for the team - higher quality people and sponsors. Obviously Ron's initial goal hasn't worked, which meant McLaren as a purely independent car manufacturer also in F1. The plans to start building their own engines has died down too, which was actually discussed around 2010.

Edited by sopa, 22 May 2014 - 16:12.

[oetzi]

The speculation in this forum is pretty amazing, here's all I've read here:

 

- Simple, no downforce

- Simulator - track correlation is inexistent

- Fuel used by McLaren is causing some supposedly power issues

- Merc is to blame as they are not sharing information (lol)

- Jenson's fault for not leading development of the car

- Magnussen inexperience not helping car development (that was said by Jenson)

- Old Aero people left (even though they were the problem apparently)

- Random rants against people like Whitmarsh, Goss, Michael.

 

 

Did I miss anything?

Yep. All the big boys from the 88 crew are back on board. Except Steve Nichols.

 

Where's Steve Nichols?

Edited by oetzi, 22 May 2014 - 16:09.

[ballow]

Its Whitmarsh's legacy. I am afraid it would take them 3 more years for them to get back in shape and start contending. 

 

Sam Michael

 

Who is part of Whitmarsh's legacy. It really is down to Whitmarsh it's going to take a good number of years to undo his damage. 

[sopa]

Its Whitmarsh's legacy. I am afraid it would take them 3 more years for them to get back in shape and start contending. 

 

 

Who is part of Whitmarsh's legacy. It really is down to Whitmarsh it's going to take a good number of years to undo his damage. 

 

But Ron Dennis appointed Whitharsh to take over the helm. So who is really at fault? Or while we are at it, didn't Ron realllly have anybody else to promote or hire? If not, then we must conclude McLaren was doomed anyway...

[MJB5990]

They are missing lots of downforce, that's clear but they're also missing a world-class driver who performs on a consistant basis. They need someone the callibre of Lewis, Seb or Fernando. Nico, Kimi and Dan would also be great additions to the team but Jenson isn't quick enough and K-Mag needs time to settle in.

[Lotus53B]

They've also lost their focus - they used to be nothing but an F1 team, then occassional external projects (eg the McLaren F1), now they're a sprawling multi-tentacled beast

[Santosdf]

They are not struggling, they are not longer a top team , so for a midfield team they are doing OK

[eronrules]

So... where are the keys?

 

Did Whitmarsh take the keys with him when he left? Should Ron Dennis actually start a new operation for finding Whitmarsh and the keys?

Were the keys lost already before? Does anybody know? Should all the people at Woking go out and search all the rocks and bushes to register the possible location of keys? Maybe the keys are in Melbourne? Or Kuala Lumpur? It gets complicated...

 

Maybe the keys are actually stored in some locked drawer, and the OTHER keys - the drawer keys - are missing? The plot thickens...

ask him ...

 

[Blanchimont2002]

Isn't the 'sweet spot' of the car really small? So it's operating window is hard to find.

There's many puns to be had with a statement like that..

[Richard T]

Mclaren is the new Honda F1 Racing....



I'll get my coat

[emmanuelrubi]

They are not struggling, they are not longer a top team , so for a midfield team they are doing OK

 

Not so OK, if we could create a category that fits between top team and midfield, i only see two teams there, Lotus and McLaren, with that in mind, McLaren in comparison to Lotus are not doing OK, even this year Lotus seem to be getting better and better, while McLaren looks all the same, and taking in account that Lotus has waaaaaaay less resources than Macca they should be the ones who must have a worst performance but they don't they are getting better and better.

 

They have things in common thought:

 

- Both of them in the last 3 years have lost important key staff to other teams.

 

- Both of them lack of a major tittle sponsor.

 

- Both of them are no longer engine factory teams Lotus used to be Renault and Macca won't be Honda till next year.

 

- The company that supplies their engines gives priority to other teams before them (Rebull in Lotus case, and AMG in Mercedes case)

 

- Even they have Button, Magnussen and Grosjean which are pretty decent drivers i doubt they are helping to develop the car in an adequate form in comparison when they had drivers like Lewis or Kimi.

 

So with this in Mind i think McLaren is not considered as a top team and can't be considered as a midfield either i would put them in an independent category with Lotus which seems to be getting better and better while McLaren seems to be going downwards.

[loki]

Maybe they should move to Kanapolis...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[study]

Ferrari, Enstone, McLaren

How the mighty have fallen

[Rocket73]

Command structure has been all wrong for a long time. 

 

It's going to take a while to recover. 

 

Also I think that they should just concentrate on aero as this can be taken into next year.

[Borko]

I'd say one of the reason is certainly how many big names from technical department left them in the last 8 years - Newey, Prodromou, Lowe, Coughlan, Fry

Edited by BorkoF2012, 22 May 2014 - 18:57.

[discover23]

I'd say one of the reason is certainly how many big names from techincal department left them in the last 8 years - Newey, Prodromou, Lowe, Coughlan, Fry

and top drivers.. Montoya, Kimi, Alonso, Lewis..

[ballow]

Mclaren is the new Honda F1 Racing....



I'll get my coat

 

They would even have the engines to go with their new tag 

 

No excuses next year - they have Mercedes data and their own engine anything less than wins is a fail 

[CHIUNDA]

One wonders what changed?

[sopa]

Mclaren is the new Honda F1 Racing....



I'll get my coat

 

And Honda F1 Racing (the current Mercedes GP) is the new former McLaren-Honda...

[sopa]

Ferrari, Enstone, McLaren

How the mighty have fallen

 

I was wondering one day, how much the F1 order has changed compared to, say, 2012. 

McLaren was going for wins, Lotus getting podiums. Now they barely get points.

Mercedes could barely get points back then, now they win.

Sauber was getting podiums back then, now they are nowhere.

Only Red Bull and Ferrari are not TOO FAR off compared to then, but even so Red Bull can't even get a sniff at wins, which they could at least compete for back then. And Ferrari isn't a regular podium car any longer.

[4MEN]

Ferrari, Enstone, McLaren

How the mighty have fallen

& Williams.

[mclarensmps]

F1 is cyclical. That's all

[SamH123]

Australia must have just been a perfect storm for them to get 2nd/3rd with this car

 

Missing every point for 3 races running is shocking, I have wondered a few times (looking at the other Merc teams) where on earth they would be with a Ferrari/Renault engine

 

Maybe not being the works team is hurting them more every year, after all the clear top 3 at the moment are Works teams 

[Paco]

It happens. I personally feel it has a lot to do with Honda and also the lack of help from Mercedes, distraction of no key sponsor and loss of a lot of key employees. Perfect storm really and add in Jenson as the lead driver and rookie ish 2nd and the driver front isn't helping - but. Not hurting either.. I'd would guess in 2016 they'll be backup to the front. Next year will be a learning year with Honda and getting all the staff on the same page will take a couple years. I'm pretty sure they'll pretty much play with this year's car more for Honda readiness then trying to improve it much more. Moneywise, they're not going to get a lot more or less between 5-6-7 placement relative to their operating budget.

[Paco]

When I said Honda as a reason for potential issues in 2014 I meant only because I'm sure the engine package will fit differently and have its own unique qualities that will need be part of the fundamental design of next year's car and those requirements may hamper McLaren's directions this year in updates as they may choose to test and work on developments for those needs. If McLaren was to honor the amount of cfd time-data limits ... why focus on a lost campaign and not put all effort into your new partnership..

[understeer]

MATRIX management without "The one"

[Nobody]

The engine

[garagetinkerer]

Last i remember a driver doing the car proper was Sir Jack... Pretty sure other drivers don't design their cars as well, but only two drivers properly get heat (to be polite, and a whopper of an understatement the phrase 'get heat' is) from commentators here, namely Button and Vettel. Good to see there are some who are challenging the non-sense.

[garagetinkerer]

McLaren use Mobil fuel instead the Petronas fuel used by the other Mercedes powered teams, which allegedly costs them a ton of power.

It could very well be it. Cor blimey, i didn't know that all other Mercedes powered teams use Petronas.

 

McLaren have been a bit stretched financially with their factory, the super-car, Voda left and so on and on. Mercedes is spending way more than the other big teams (Ferrari, McLaren and RBR ) and that's also a factor.