26 replies to this topic

[DutchQuicksilver]

Don't know if it deserves a topic of its own, otherwise the mods could merge it with an existing one.

 

Anyway, apparently Korea is only included on the calendar so a fifth power unit can be used. Looks likely it will be dropped again shortly before the season gets underway.

 

The inclusion of Korea on the provisional 2015 calendar raised some eyebrows when it was released by the FIA this week, not least by local organisers who have no knowledge of the proposal to resuscitate the event.

 

http://www.gptoday.c...r_fifth_engine/

[Nonesuch]

Autosport reported earlier today that 'Formula 1 teams are unlikely to get the green light for a fifth engine in 2015 unless the Korean Grand Prix stays on the calendar for the start of the season, the FIA has suggested'. (emphasis added)

 

This leaves open the possibility of the race being dropped after the start of the season, but it seems like that might be a costly affair for the parties involved.

[MissingTheApex]

It's not so that a 5th power unit can be used, it's to simplify the process to agree to a 5th unit being able to be used i.e. if they wanted to use 5 units, they'd have to be unanimous agreement amongst the teams, but if they put another race on, each engine has only to last 5 races next year, so having 21 means they can have 5.  If the race is removed, they still have this option.  It's just a way around having to get everyone to meet.  No great shakes on my part.

 

I'd suggest that was heavy politiking on renaults side btw.

Edited by MissingTheApex, 05 December 2014 - 13:32.

[jonpollak]

Nah.. Here's the real reason.



Jp

[Clatter]

How the hell does a sport that likes to advertise itself as the "pinnacle of motorsport" create rules that are so obviously designed to circumvent the intention. It's beyond ridiculous.

[dweller23]

Plus the date collides with WEC Spa, which would prevent F1 drivers from racing there.

[Maikel0230]

Is the FIA doing this because the date for teams to unanimously agree to change it to 5 engines has passed quite a while ago?

[Clatter]

I think he is worried about his end of season finale being ruined by numerous engine penalties. This way it's more likely the teams could have a new\nearly new engine for the last race.

 

I'd like to know who came up with the wording for the rule in the first place. It looks like it was done deliberately to circumvent the intention.

[Risil]

What a shambles. It's almost as if Bernie is trying to leave F1 in the same state he found it.

[johnmhinds]

What a shambles. It's almost as if Bernie is trying to leave F1 in the same state he found it.

 

This is the FIA not Bernie.

 

Stupid that the FIA needs to do crap like this to circumvent its own messed rules systems...

[Risil]

I thought Bernie did the calendar?

 

The prospect of F1's Big Four buying shares in Formula One is interesting. They behave enough like late-CART as it is.

Edited by Risil, 07 December 2014 - 15:47.

[Clatter]

This is the FIA not Bernie.

 

Stupid that the FIA needs to do crap like this to circumvent its own messed rules systems...

BE sets the calender, the wording of the rule has all the hallmarks of a collusion to get around the original rule and I'd be surprised if there were not pressure from the teams as well.

[BRG]

It's almost as if Bernie is trying to leave F1 in the same state he found it.

What, with a series of races at classic circuits full of appreciative fans, and with a grid overflowing with entries?  If only, we can but hope.

[LORDBYRON]

Don't know if it deserves a topic of its own, otherwise the mods could merge it with an existing one.

 

Anyway, apparently Korea is only included on the calendar so a fifth power unit can be used. Looks likely it will be dropped again shortly before the season gets underway.

 

 

 

 

http://www.gptoday.c...r_fifth_engine/

The FIA shot down that loop hole rumor IF the race don't take place no extra engine 

Edited by LORDBYRON, 07 December 2014 - 19:46.

[Clatter]

The FIA shot down that loop hole rumor IF the race don't take place no extra engine 

Link?

[Newbrray]

The FIA shot down that loop hole rumor IF the race don't take place no extra engine 

 

Not so sure they shot it down entirely 

 

The use of the phrase 'originally scheduled' has been interpreted by some as meaning that if there are 21 races down provisionally, then even if one drops off then that is enough for teams to be given the extra engine.

However, senior sources at the FIA insist that such an interpretation of the regulation is unlikely to stand.

The scheduling of the race, which is pencilled in for May, means that its slot in the calendar will need to be finalised before the season begins in Australia.

With a provisional 2015 F1 calendar having been published by the FIA in September, and a final version therefore needing to be sorted before the first race, it will be hard for anyone to argue that the Korean GP was 'originally scheduled' if it drops off.

The only way that teams will be guaranteed the fifth engine will be for the 21st race to be on the official schedule when the campaign begins in Australia, for by then teams will have finalised the lifing of their power units.

Teams faced a spate of reliability problems this year, when they had five engines for the 19 races, so there are worries that the situation could be even worse in 2015 when they have four engines for 20 events.

That is why any chance of getting an extra power unit would be a bonus.

The potential opening for a fifth engine may, however, be used by Ecclestone as a tool to get support from teams for an extra race somewhere else next year - even if Korea does not happen.

 

 

Am sure Bernie can still take it off from the finalised schedule for some reason or the other and by then the 5th engine will be allowed. They did take Bahrain off sometime ago so its not unfathomable that can happen again

 

@Clatter  - http://www.autosport...t.php/id/117046

Edited by Newbrray, 07 December 2014 - 21:25.

[Clatter]

Not so sure they shot it down entirely 

 

 

Am sure Bernie can still take it off from the finalised schedule for some reason or the other and by then the 5th engine will be allowed. They did take Bahrain off sometime ago so its not unfathomable that can happen again

 

@Clatter  - http://www.autosport...t.php/id/117046

I agree. Doesn't look shot down at all. BE can easily leave it on the official schedule and bin it a day after it's issued.

[johnmhinds]

Bernie isn't the one that added Korea to this list.

 

He has no incentive to play games with the dates here, he doesn't give a **** how many engines are used, and he does't even like these engines, and the last thing he would want to do is remind us all what a failure the Korean race was.

 

It's the FIA that added it to the list get around its own rules and change the engine allotment from 4 to 5 without having to push against the teams and their veto powers.

[Newbrray]

Bernie isn't the one that added Korea to this list.

 

He has no incentive to play games with the dates here, he doesn't give a **** how many engines are used, and he does't even like these engines, and the last thing he would want to do is remind us all what a failure the Korean race was.

 

It's the FIA that added it to the list get around its own rules and change the engine allotment from 4 to 5 without having to push against the teams and their veto powers.

 

Really, I was always of the opinion that its Bernie (as the commercial rights holder) who is in charge of the race schedule/Calendar and organisation and not the FIA (I could well be wrong). I don't think the FIA would have included Korea without Bernie's knowledge, thats even if they could at all.

 

but as I said, I could be wrong

[johnmhinds]

It was the FIA World Motorsport Council that ratified the list, you think they'd just let Bernie add a fictitious race to the calendar and then stamp their approval on it without having their own motive for them to do such a thing?

 

It undermines their entire organisation.

[Newbrray]

The initial list will e from Bernie won't it. SO the bottomline is if there is something dodgy going on to get the 5 engine rule in it has to be done between the FIA & Bernie. Am not sure one can do it without the other

[stewie]

Korea will never happen on that date, back to back races are hard enough on everyone without flying half way around the world in between.

[johnmhinds]

The initial list will e from Bernie won't it. SO the bottomline is if there is something dodgy going on to get the 5 engine rule in it has to be done between the FIA & Bernie. Am not sure one can do it without the other

 

There is no incentive for Bernie to be involved in this though. What does he get from adding this fake race to the calendar?

 

The only incentives that i've seen brought up by the F1 media and commentators on the sport only point towards the FIA and the engine manufacturers benefiting from it by them working together to circumvent the teams (Mercedes mainly) veto powers.

 

Bernie gets bugger all from being involved in this mess.

[Knot]

Todt and his merry band of muppets are really making Mosley look like a luminary.

[Clatter]

Bernie isn't the one that added Korea to this list.

 

He has no incentive to play games with the dates here, he doesn't give a **** how many engines are used, and he does't even like these engines, and the last thing he would want to do is remind us all what a failure the Korean race was.

 

It's the FIA that added it to the list get around its own rules and change the engine allotment from 4 to 5 without having to push against the teams and their veto powers.

Of course he does. He wants to minimise the chances of the season finale being spoilt by engine penalties.

[Clatter]

Todt and his merry band of muppets are really making Mosley look like a luminary.

Nah. Mosley was corrupt, these guys are just inept.

[Knot]

Nah. Mosley was corrupt, these guys are just inept.

 

Corruption does not denote inability to perform one's job duties.