50 replies to this topic

[kosmos]

 

 

 

Even after he was presented as McLaren driver, Ferrari invited Fernando to their christmas party today for one last homage/goodbye. Talking about respect, admiration and love, Ferrari class act

 

[KWSN - DSM]

Regardless of where Alonso is in 2015, Ferrari the team fully understand and appreciate what Alonso have brought them the past 5 seasons, and they fully understand that no other driver would have been able to mirror that (last part my very personal biased opinion).

 

Merry Christmas Ferrari.

 

[LORDBYRON]

Regardless of where Alonso is in 2015, Ferrari the team fully understand and appreciate what Alonso have brought them the past 5 seasons, and they fully understand that no other driver would have been able to mirror that (last part my very personal biased opinion).

 

Merry Christmas Ferrari.

 

Well said I to fear there is no other driver could have done what he done 'with the tools available' 

[Jimisgod]

Controversial opinion: Alonso was so good he hid how bad the cars were. Massa did nothing in them and now he's almost winning at Williams.

[HeadFirst]

Controversial opinion: Alonso was so good he hid how bad the cars were. Massa did nothing in them and now he's almost winning at Williams.

 

And Kimi who looked great in the Lotus, appeared lost in the Ferrari.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Controversial opinion: Alonso was so good he hid how bad the cars were. Massa did nothing in them and now he's almost winning at Williams.

 

How is that controversy? That's pretty much the entire Alonso reputation.

[Jimisgod]

How is that controversy? That's pretty much the entire Alonso reputation.

I should have expressed it better. Alonso is so good that his successes allowed Ferrari to convince themselves the cars they made were far better than they actually were so the problems festered and culminated in 2014-onwards.

[KWSN - DSM]

I should have expressed it better. Alonso is so good that his successes allowed Ferrari to convince themselves the cars they made were far better than they actually were so the problems festered and culminated in 2014-onwards.

 

 

The past 5 seasons have convinced me that Alonso is the best driver in the current field. Mansell was 39 when he won his WDC, there are plenty time for Alonso to win more.

 

Edited by KWSN - DSM, 13 December 2014 - 17:45.

[Nonesuch]

Nice gesture, and of course Alonso is an important part of Ferrari's F1 history. Their partnership did not bring the success they hoped for, but it was an impressive run nonetheless.

 

Alonso is so good that his successes allowed Ferrari to convince themselves the cars they made were far better than they actually were so the problems festered and culminated in 2014-onwards.

 

Was Button so good in 2012 that his wins allowed McLaren to convince themselves that their car was far better than it actually was, so that the problems festered and resulted in their suboptimal attempts in 2013 and - less so - 2014?

[HeadFirst]

I should have expressed it better. Alonso is so good that his successes allowed Ferrari to convince themselves the cars they made were far better than they actually were so the problems festered and culminated in 2014-onwards.

 

Perhaps that is why they got rid of him / allowed him to go ........ Fernando was (and always would be) overshadowing the brilliance of their designs. After all Ferrari is about the car, not the driver.

[George Costanza]

Controversial opinion: Alonso was so good he hid how bad the cars were. Massa did nothing in them and now he's almost winning at Williams.

 

Indeed.

[HeadFirst]

Nice gesture, and of course Alonso is an important part of Ferrari's F1 history. Their partnership did not bring the success they hoped for, but it was an impressive run nonetheless.

 

 

Was Button so good in 2012 that his wins allowed McLaren to convince themselves that their car was far better than it actually was, so that the problems festered and resulted in their suboptimal attempts in 2013 and - less so - 2014?

 

No, that was team incompetence of "Everestian" heights.

[George Costanza]

The past 5 seasons have convinced me that Alonso is the best driver in the current field. Mansell was 39 when he won his WDC, there are plenty time for Alonso to win more.

 

 

Yes it sure helps if your car is that fast.... If Mansell was in the 1992 McLaren Honda, I think Ayrton would have won in 1992.

 

Fred has lot of time, true.

Edited by George Costanza, 13 December 2014 - 18:31.

[Cyanide]

Can't say they same about Alonso with his Briatore/marlboro pack photo on twitter. That was relatively low class, glad the team are showing better. 

 

Oh, and where are the people who said back in September that Ferrari would lay all the blame on Fernando for leaving?

Edited by Cyanide, 13 December 2014 - 18:51.

[NoSanityClause]

I should have expressed it better. Alonso is so good that his successes allowed Ferrari to convince themselves the cars they made were far better than they actually were so the problems festered and culminated in 2014-onwards.

Well, I am sitting on a couch, I can't tell apart a brake disc from a rearview mirror, yet I was positive that Ferrari produced from regular to nightmarish cars every year of Alonso's tenure there. 

 

So my guess is that they might have suspected as much too. Because, you know, they have data and and know stuff 

[SlickMick]

Sometimes people should just accept it's time to move on. This can be done amicably. 

The time was right for Ferrari and Alonso - I think he knew it, I think the team knew it.

I'm one of those who believe Alonso has carried Ferrari for quite some time. His excellence actually hid many deficiencies and delayed some initiatives which should have been taken a long time ago. 

 

Good luck to both Alonso and Ferrari - as F1 fans we'll be better off if they're both competitive, regardless of which team/driver we support. 

 

 

 

Edit: I actually support McLaren (unusually since they really annoy me sometimes) and Williams (don't think there's anything daft the team could do to piss me off). Drivers? No. They're there to be respected and applauded - how anyone can have any empathy for the current drivers is beyond me.   

Edited by SlickMick, 13 December 2014 - 19:42.

[KnucklesAgain]

I should have expressed it better. Alonso is so good that his successes allowed Ferrari to convince themselves the cars they made were far better than they actually were so the problems festered and culminated in 2014-onwards.

 

Not new either, this was sometimes argued in the Kimi vs Fernando thread: that Fernando's efforts were actually bad for the team and that it took Kimi to expose how bad the car was, so Kimi's successes were actually a good thing 

[El_Rápido]

Can't say they same about Alonso with his Briatore/marlboro pack photo on twitter. That was relatively low class, glad the team are showing better. 

 

That was directed to Mattiacci, not Ferrari.

 

Mattiacci, allegedly, made a contractual move no one allowed him to make, only to spite Fernando. Alonso just signed a mega contract with McLaren-Honda, while Briattore made a nice chunk of money in management fees. On the other hand, Mattiacci was fired/laid off from Ferrari.

 

In your opinion, who made the best/worst move? 

[kosmos]

 

[TF110]

So Kimi is horrible but was as good or better than Grosjean the year before. I think people are reaching. No doubt Alonso is good, but he had been in Ferrari for years while Kimi was brand new. Alonso likes a certain type of handling car and Kimi likes a certain type of handling car. I dont think theres much to it other than the Ferrari was much more to Alonso's liking than Raikkonen's. On topic though, this was a nice thing for Ferrari to do. Hopefully both Alonso and Ferrari have great futures.

[aramos]

Controversial opinion: Alonso was so good he hid how bad the cars were. Massa did nothing in them and now he's almost winning at Williams.

 

Seems very likely. Although the F10 was a very good car. Maybe not the best, but in the right circumstances with a top driver it was capable of winning the championship. The cars that followed never really were. 

[DRSwing]

This is very nice. Didn't expect Fernando to be back in Ferrari for Christmas after being presented as a Mclaren driver. Very nice touch by Ferrari indeed. Don't suppose he will turn up as Santa as before for the children's party though . I always had a good chuckle at the photos of the Ferrari Santas in the past few years (I do think they are all good sports to do this). Guess will have to laugh at Kimi Santa this year.

As a Ferrari and Alonso fan, it has been hard to see him presented as a Mc driver on Thursday. Seeing today's photos put a smile on my face and a small hope that maybe one day he will come back to our team.

[FullWets]

Can't say they same about Alonso with his Briatore/marlboro pack photo on twitter. That was relatively low class, glad the team are showing better. 

 

Oh, and where are the people who said back in September that Ferrari would lay all the blame on Fernando for leaving?

 

 

That was directed to Mattiacci, not Ferrari.

 

Mattiacci, allegedly, made a contractual move no one allowed him to make, only to spite Fernando. Alonso just signed a mega contract with McLaren-Honda, while Briattore made a nice chunk of money in management fees. On the other hand, Mattiacci was fired/laid off from Ferrari.

 

In your opinion, who made the best/worst move? 

 

Please stop it guys, Briatore already explained that they were mocking nobody, just wishing good luck to their old friend Arrivabene. BTW, Briatore is not the manager of Alonso since quite a few years

[SophieB]

This has quickly turned into people just giving general opinions of Alonso, Raikkonen or whatever rather than discussing the opening post but its not very fair on the opening poster. Please just discuss Alonso's final engagement for Ferrari, his appearance at their traditional Christmas do and anything arising from that.

[hittheapex]

Please stop it guys, Briatore already explained that they were mocking nobody, just wishing good luck to their old friend Arrivabene. BTW, Briatore is not the manager of Alonso since quite a few years

 

I didn't know that. Do you happen to remember when they ended that relationship?

[aditya-now]

 

 

 

 

Even after he was presented as McLaren driver, Ferrari invited Fernando to their christmas party today for one last homage/goodbye. Talking about respect, admiration and love, Ferrari class act

 

 

Well, Fernando is finishing unfinished business at McLaren in 2015 and 2016 (possibly 2017) - then there is still the unfinished business at Ferrari left for 2018, 2019 and 2020. Ferrari keeping the door open, as the Christmas dinner indicates. Then finally there will be time for retirement, at the ripe age of 40.

 

 

This has quickly turned into people just giving general opinions of Alonso, Raikkonen or whatever rather than discussing the opening post but its not very fair on the opening poster. Please just discuss Alonso's final engagement for Ferrari, his appearance at their traditional Christmas do and anything arising from that.

 

Thus this Christmas dinner will not be the Fernando's "final engagement for Ferrari".

 

Stranger things have happened, and Alonso prides himself in returning to teams he had driven for before. Also, the competitive flame in Fernando is so strong that It is hard to imagine he will retire before 2020.

Edited by aditya-now, 14 December 2014 - 11:29.

[aditya-now]

This is very nice. Didn't expect Fernando to be back in Ferrari for Christmas after being presented as a Mclaren driver. Very nice touch by Ferrari indeed. Don't suppose he will turn up as Santa as before for the children's party though . I always had a good chuckle at the photos of the Ferrari Santas in the past few years (I do think they are all good sports to do this). Guess will have to laugh at Kimi Santa this year.

As a Ferrari and Alonso fan, it has been hard to see him presented as a Mc driver on Thursday. Seeing today's photos put a smile on my face and a small hope that maybe one day he will come back to our team.

 

Seb Vettel also spent already some time with our Scuderia, before coming to the final celebration at Red Bull headquarters in Milton Keynes. So I think Ferrari took heart in inviting Fernando for the Christmas dinner - and, as you indicate - it would be very Alonso that he "will come back to our team".

 

What interests me - were Raikkonen and Vettel also at the Christmas party?

[ensign14]

Regardless of where Alonso is in 2015, Ferrari the team fully understand and appreciate what Alonso have brought them the past 5 seasons, and they fully understand that no other driver would have been able to mirror that (last part my very personal biased opinion).

 

Bit of a shame then they got rid of him for two worse drivers.

[aramos]

Bit of a shame then they got rid of him for two worse drivers.

They never got rid of him. He left and they signed the best available driver.

[Mandzipop]

Seb Vettel also spent already some time with our Scuderia, before coming to the final celebration at Red Bull headquarters in Milton Keynes. So I think Ferrari took heart in inviting Fernando for the Christmas dinner - and, as you indicate - it would be very Alonso that he "will come back to our team".

 

What interests me - were Raikkonen and Vettel also at the Christmas party?

 

I've seen a video and Kimi was there. Seb's contract doesn't start until 1st January and the dinner would have been organised weeks or even months ago so I doubt Seb was there. Although the Autosport article says he was.

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/117138

 

"Alonso, who was announced as a 2015 McLaren driver on Thursday, also attended the Maranello event in one of his final engagements for Ferrari, as well as his replacement Vettel and Raikkonen"

 

But it was good of both Alonso and Ferrari to participate one last time together.

 

Not sure if he will be playing Santa this year. That might have to be all down to Kimi.

[aditya-now]

Mandzipop, thanks for the details.

 

Not sure if he will be playing Santa this year. That might have to be all down to Kimi.

 

At least he would have the beard now....

 

 

I looked the whole thing up on Ferrari's site:

 

http://formula1.ferr...ionne-we-talent

 

Jules Bianchi, Michael Schumacher and Emil Botin were mentioned and honored, Kimi was the man "particularily in demand" and Fernando made his last appearance for the Scuderia.

 

And the Christmas tree was from Brunico, Südtirol, like the last six years.

http://formula1.ferr...lendent-ferrari

 

No sight of Vettel in the whole proceedings - it could well be that Fernando was all the time scheduled to make an appearance in the Christmas party and that this was not a special bowing to Alonso from Ferrari's side. After all, they did not split on negative terms.

 

 

Maranello, 13 December –The traditional Gestione Sportiva Christmas Lunch for all the Scuderia Ferrari staff and representatives of its technical and commercial partners took place today. It began with a word about Jules Bianchi and Michael Schumacher, two drivers who are very dear to the Maranello team and who are currently fighting a long and difficult battle. The speaker was Maurizio Arrivabene, who made his first appearance at the Lunch in his new role of Managing Director of the Gestione Sportiva and Scuderia Team Principal, after many years as part of the senior management at Philip Morris. Arrivabene also paid tribute to Emilio Botin, the Santander Bank President, who passed away in early September, before describing his feelings on taking on his new role. “I am very proud to work for this company, which is the best there is. A company is it’s people and in this case, they are special people. Now we are here to look forward to Christmas, but as from January, I want to see you not on the defensive but on the attack, because the aim is to get the Scuderia back where it should be.” On the stage was an F14 T, as well as an Alfa Romeo 6C, the car raced by the very first Scuderia Ferrari drivers, when the team was established 85 years ago. Piero Ferrari paid tribute to the courage of his father who, in 1929, which was a year of great crisis, decided to enter gentlemen racers in Alfa Romeos. The President of FIAT-Chrysler Automobiles, John Elkann, also spoke about Ferrari and Alfa Romeo, stressing the strong ties between Ferrari and the Agnelli family. “Ever since my grandfather did a deal with Enzo, Ferrari has been something completely special for us. With mutual respect we have always worked together, getting great results,” said Elkann. “We are very closely linked to Ferrari and we are working on ensuring it has an even better future. On the track too, there is a lot of work to do, but we are determined to make available everything necessary to get the Scuderia back on the right road. I am pleased to see there’s also an Alfa Romeo on stage because 2015 will also be an important year for this great marque.”

President Sergio Marchionne ended the Lunch with these words. “In this room, there are many very talented people. I am here to get you working at your best and to give you the necessary resources, which when combined with your ability will put our fantastic driver pairing in a position to fight for the front row. That’s why I decided to bring in Maurizio Arrivabene, who will ensure that you and Ferrari will benefit from very efficient leadership. I have full confidence in Maurizio. He has known this world for a long time and has the ability to steer the Scuderia in what is a difficult period for it and for Formula 1 in general. Do not fear change, be proactive and have the courage to come up with ideas. I know you can do it and that’s what Ferrari needs.” President Marchionne went on to thank the technical and commercial partners. “Thanks to you all,” he said. “True partnerships can be seen in difficult moment like these and not for a single day did I feel your support was lacking and I assure you that has not gone unnoticed.” With the lunch over, John Elkan, Piero Ferrari, Maurizio Arrivabene and Ferrari Managing Director Amedeo Felisa stepped up on stage to wish everyone well and then it was time for photos all round, with the man who will be team-mates with Sebastian Vettel next year, Kimi Raikkonen being particularly in demand, as well as Fernando Alonso making his last appearance in Ferrari.

- See more at: http://formula1.ferr...h.ADWJNr7v.dpuf

 

 

The video is quite nice, it was all done in very good style.

Edited by aditya-now, 14 December 2014 - 11:54.

[Clatter]

Well, Fernando is finishing unfinished business at McLaren in 2015 and 2016 (possibly 2017) - then there is still the unfinished business at Ferrari left for 2018, 2019 and 2020. Ferrari keeping the door open, as the Christmas dinner indicates. Then finally there will be time for retirement, at the ripe age of 40.

 

 

 

Thus this Christmas dinner will not be the Fernando's "final engagement for Ferrari".

 

Stranger things have happened, and Alonso prides himself in returning to teams he had driven for before. Also, the competitive flame in Fernando is so strong that It is hard to imagine he will retire before 2020.

Does he? I rather think it's just the circumstances and not something he is seeking out to do.

[aditya-now]

Does he? I rather think it's just the circumstances and not something he is seeking out to do.

 

Well, it happened the second time now and Fernando used it to point out that he just might not be such a difficult person to work with after all.

[Beyond]

title should be "brava ferrari"

[Clatter]

Well, it happened the second time now and Fernando used it to point out that he just might not be such a difficult person to work with after all.

Yes, but each time his options were limited. It's circumstances, nothing more.

[discover23]

If Fernando went back to Mclaren after 2007 anything is possible at this point.

If he keeps the same level of performance in the last 5-6 years of his career, he will continue to be high demand for any of the top teams, contrary to the picture that some here wanted to paint, which was that no one wants to work with Alonso because he is poisonous..
I expect those comments to be put to rest now.

And by the way I really admire Ferrari for doing this. I won't be putting my Ferrari stuff on ebay .. Just kidding ;) .. I am actually going to start collecting cars and I am shopping around for the F10 1/18 replica.

[FullWets]

I didn't know that. Do you happen to remember when they ended that relationship?

I didn't recall exactly the moment, but after a little research on the web, it was end of 2005, when Alonso anounced that he would go to McLaren while Briatore was still boss at Renault

[redreni]

It's nice of Ferrari to invite him to their Christmas party when he's leaving, and it was also nice of them to let him break his contract and leave early. One can be too nice in F1, at times, though...

[NoSanityClause]

It's nice of Ferrari to invite him to their Christmas party when he's leaving, and it was also nice of them to let him break his contract and leave early. One can be too nice in F1, at times, though...

In Saint Exupery's "The Little Prince" there a quote that I think applies here:

 

"if I ordered a general to change himself into a sea bird, and if the general did not obey me, that would not be the fault of the general. It would be my fault."

 

 

They weren't too nice. They were too wise. 

[Dolph]

 

 

 

 

Even after he was presented as McLaren driver, Ferrari invited Fernando to their christmas party today for one last homage/goodbye. Talking about respect, admiration and love, Ferrari class act

 

 

Or just a group of people with some decency. Lets not blow this out of proportion.

[hittheapex]

I didn't recall exactly the moment, but after a little research on the web, it was end of 2005, when Alonso anounced that he would go to McLaren while Briatore was still boss at Renault

Ah I see, thanks. I thought it may have been after Singaporegate and leaving Renault.

[RealRacing]

Yeah they invite an ex driver to a Xmas party and they are a class act. Class I think is seen at times of competition and pressure and IMO Ferrari has not responded ethically in those situations. Sorry to rain on your parade but a party does not compensate for cheating.

[El_Rápido]

Briatore is not the manager of Alonso since quite a few years

 

My understanding is that Briatore is the head of Fernando's management team, still. 

Edited by El_Rápido, 15 December 2014 - 01:34.

[noikeee]

I do think this is uncharacteristically classy from Ferrari. You'd think a driver that leaves mid-contract for McLaren (nevermind this is on a period McLaren is performing even worse than Ferrari!), would be on the black list forever, yet they seem to be on good terms. Bizarre.

[NoSanityClause]

Yeah they invite an ex driver to a Xmas party and they are a class act. Class I think is seen at times of competition and pressure and IMO Ferrari has not responded ethically in those situations. Sorry to rain on your parade but a party does not compensate for cheating.

1) The OP merely highlighted a nice gesture, nobody is asking for redemption for any cheating.

2) Class act can be done in and out of the track.

3) Your inflexible moral condemnation would have sounded more sincere, had you not Piquet's Brabham as your avatar. Piquet was accused many times of cheating. And, of course, you always have his boss admission to it:

 

Q: Both of you have turned ailing teams into championship winners. What is the key to success?
BE: Good people - good designers, team managers and drivers. But back then, at the times of Brabham, I had a significant advantage. We were the masters of cheating and never got caught. That’s not possible nowadays! (Christian laughs) Today it is all about who’s interpreting the rules best. That means staying within the rules but thinking outside of the box because the control mechanisms are too tight to take a risk.

 

Source: http://www.formula1....11/9/12582.html

 

Perhaps you should reconsider what's so wrong about the things said in this thread?.

[RealRacing]

1) The OP merely highlighted a nice gesture, nobody is asking for redemption for any cheating.
2) Class act can be done in and out of the track.
3) Your inflexible moral condemnation would have sounded more sincere, had you not Piquet's Brabham as your avatar. Piquet was accused many times of cheating. And, of course, you always have his boss admission to it:

Source: http://www.formula1....11/9/12582.html

Perhaps you should reconsider what's so wrong about the things said in this thread?.

I have a car which is, IMO, one of the most beautiful in F1 history as my avatar. The rest is your mind preparing for takeoff...

Edited by RealRacing, 15 December 2014 - 03:01.

[ATM]

This is starting to escalate, we'd better stop before we bring the hardware out in the open. 

 

So yeah, nice gesture from Ferrari, or simply well enforced P.R. contract obligations; anyway it could have been worse. Duly noted, now everybody take their present sweetheart and let's go racing. Or, at least, let's go crash-testing...

[Mohican]

All very cute by Ferrari - however, Messrs Domenicali & Matiacci may have had a different view. Nobody here mentions them, nor the engine designers etc who were fired. Possibly even Luca himself.

Not very "classy", I think.

[prty]

Bit of a shame then they got rid of him for two worse drivers.

Can feel your pain

[tifosiMac]

Fernando has given Ferrari an awful lot over the past 5 years so it would be totally classless to kick him as he leaves. Credit to Ferrari for being extremely professional and I think a lot of that is to do with Luca not being there any more. I am starting to miss his press releases already.