115 replies to this topic

[HPT]

GA in an interview on Autosport.com plus, said that Button was the most improved driver with the way he worked so hard to give McLaren much needed points while saying this about Alonso:

 

"In fact, he was the opposite of what we saw from Fernando Alonso. Once it was all over for him at Ferrari he fell away.

I don't blame him for this but as a professional driver you need to put in 100 per cent every time you sit in the car. He didn't, but Jenson did."

 

I can't remember there was a single race when Alonso didn't give his all (or that he looked like he didn't). I started this thread to see if anyone has a different view. Is it only me that missed the obvious? Or that GA is talking nonsense like he sometimes does?

 

Mods: I don't know if this is new thread worthy so feel free to merge/move/delete as you see fit. Thanks.

[pacificquay]

Anderson hates McLaren and takes every opportunity to slag them off.

 

Having a go at their new driver fits into that.

[as65p]

I would have thought the best indicator should have been his performance in relation to Raikkönen, and as that didn't change significantly I would go for the nonsense option.

 

In reality it's near impossible to tell for us, though.

[pRy]

 

GA in an interview on Autosport.com plus, said that Button was the most improved driver with the way he worked so hard to give McLaren much needed points while saying this about Alonso:

 

"In fact, he was the opposite of what we saw from Fernando Alonso. Once it was all over for him at Ferrari he fell away.

I don't blame him for this but as a professional driver you need to put in 100 per cent every time you sit in the car. He didn't, but Jenson did."

 

It's perhaps not a fair comparison because Fernando would have been very confident in his future where as Jenson was literally driving to prolong his career. So one driver had nothing to lose by backing off a little.. the other driver had everything to lose.

[HoldenRT]

My impression was that the Ferrari car got worse as the season went on.  Towards the end, it seemed to be the "pile of crap" that some Ferrari/Kimi fans had been calling it, when at that stage I thought it was quite ok.  Not great but ok.  Towards the end of the season it seemed pretty bad.  Teams like McLaren or Williams had refined their aero and Ferrari were stuck with the engine until the offseason.

[Sash1]

How does that make Kimmi look?

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

I don't buy that for a second. Alonso has always, to me, seemed like someone who always puts in 100% regardless of anything, to the point where he's 1 of the only drivers in my opinion who can consistently drag a dog of a car to places where it really shouldn't be in quali and the races.

[FullWets]

Alonso's car reliability was terrible by the end of the year. It is impossible that the guy was going to perform at the best level with all those failures, he could not even complete the program for the FP in most races and had 2 DNFs plus uncountable small (and not so small) issues and failures from the team. I think Anderson should take a more careful look to the data and consider Alonso's personality: he will fight to win everything that he does, from F1 to trivial pursuit. Very superficial and biased comment form GA in my opinion

[RedBaron]

What utter garbage.

[Brazzers]

LOL at this bloke. I remember in 2013 he said the McLaren looked great and we all know what happened then? 

 

As for Alonso, what does that make Raikkonen look like then? 

[nosecone]

How does that make Kimmi look?

Exactly my thought.

After all, even the not-100% were enough to beat Kimi

[kosmos]

Nothing on Fernando's driving this year suggest that he was not giving his 100%, is easy to make such a claim with nothing more to add. I will say Mr. Anderson is not giving Autosport his 100% by the amount of rubbish he writes for them or even the rubbish he said when he was on BBC.

 

Maybe Fernando was not giving his 100%, is something impossible to meassure but I have no doubt that he tried to put the F14T as high as possible in every race. I guess his only goal was to prise Button at the expense of his new teammate.

[taran]

Drivers tend to dig just that little bit deeper if:

 

- they have a very competitive team mate

- the car is good enough for wins

- they are in a title fight...

 

 

Since none of those applied to Alonso in 2014, I can understand if he slacked off just a bit. Not enough to not do his job but probably not squeezing the very last inch of speed out of that car either...It's just human nature. Nobody can be 100% motivated all the time.

[Jamiednm]

I can't take anything that Gary Anderson says seriously.

[scheivlak]

Drivers tend to dig just that little bit deeper if:

 

- they have a very competitive team mate

- the car is good enough for wins

- they are in a title fight...

 

 

Since none of those applied to Alonso in 2014, I can understand if he slacked off just a bit. Not enough to not do his job but probably not squeezing the very last inch of speed out of that car either...It's just human nature. Nobody can be 100% motivated all the time.

 

And that's what I saw as well on track in most races in the later part of the season.

Gary stated it perhaps a bit too strong but essentially he's right as far as the later part of the season is concerned.

[WalterTrout]

I can't take anything that Gary Anderson says seriously.

 

This. 

[Clatter]

Really sounds like nonsense to me. I didn't really see anything to suggest FA wasn't giving all he had. If anything I would expect it to be the team not giving him 100% once they knew he was leaving. Would be interesting to know where GA thinks he could have done better than he did.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Do not agree.

 

 

Alonso to me has seemed like the type of driver who says to himself "right, I have to PROVE I am the best driver again this weekend" and goes out and delivers weekend after weekend, season after season. The guy drives for his legacy every time he gets into a car. I cannot say the same about others.

[Imateria]

Whilst Alonso didn't perform badly this year at all, I didn't get the impression that he was performing as well as he had back in 2012 and 13 and I think Taran hit the mark with the fact that he didn't really have much reason to. And it's not like this is the first time, remember his 2009 season?, when the car is so far off the pace that he doesn't feel like hes racing for anything he can let his head drop, though he doesnt make mistakes anymore.

[Nonesuch]

"In fact, he was the opposite of what we saw from Fernando Alonso. Once it was all over for him at Ferrari he fell away.

I don't blame him for this but as a professional driver you need to put in 100 per cent every time you sit in the car. He didn't, but Jenson did."

 

Meaning? Fernando Alonso is not a professional driver? Right. Makes total sense. Well done Anderson!

 

Besides, his thesis - if we can even call it that - depends on the idea that he has figured out when 'it was all over for him at Ferrari'.

 

That, given Briatore's recent statements, would have been long before Anderson is suggesting.

Edited by Nonesuch, 22 December 2014 - 16:05.

[kosmos]

And that's what I saw as well on track in most races in the later part of the season.

Gary stated it perhaps a bit too strong but essentially he's right as far as the later part of the season is concerned.

 

Care to elavorate,?.

 

Taking into account the car, I think his last part of the season was pretty fine.

 

ITA Ret

SIN 4

JPN Ret

RUS 6

USA 6

BRA 6

ABU 9

 

 

but maybe you expected podiums with the 4/5th car of the grid, I don't know.

Edited by kosmos, 22 December 2014 - 16:09.

[scheivlak]

Care to elavorate,?.

 

Taking into account the car, I think his last part of the season was pretty fine.

 

ITA Ret

SIN 4

JPN Ret

RUS 6

USA 6

BRA 6

ABU 9

 

 

but maybe you expected podiums with the 4/5th car of the grid, I don't know.

 

Results don't say everything about performance 

 

Have a look at the overall votes at http://forums.autosp...inal-standings/ and you'll see that also in the view of other voters his performances became less notworthy after the Belgian GP.

IMHO his Singapore race was quite superb, but most other races after the holiday break were - not just in my opinion - just decent. 

[HPT]

So I'm not the only one thinking Anderson is talking out of his a$$ again.

[David Lightman]

LOL at this bloke. I remember in 2013 he said the McLaren looked great and we all know what happened then? 

 

As for Alonso, what does that make Raikkonen look like then? 

To be fair it did look great, until they realised the suspension was on upside down 

[maverick69]

Well. It's not like Fred was 10/10 every weekend - despite the "Fred Mist" propagated in the media and on here. In fact - he was very average a couple of times. Perhaps that is what GA was getting at.

But anyways: It's GA. Just laugh and shake head........

[amppatel]

Well. It's not like Fred was 10/10 every weekend - despite the "Fred Mist" propagated in the media and on here. In fact - he was very average a couple of times. Perhaps that is what GA was getting at.

But anyways: It's GA. Just laugh and shake head........

 

Couldn't agree more. I don't understand how people rate Alonso the best in F1 when he hasn't had a competitive teammate in years - the last time he did, he lost out.

 

I'm not saying he is bad, but I'm not sure people should dismiss any comment against Alonso when he hasn't really proven himself in recent years - we don't want another shock like Vettel 2014.

[HeadFirst]

I thought Button did a fine job at McMerc this season, so in that respect I agree. If as Anderson says Alonso was unprofessional and not giving 100%, just imagine the result if he did!!!!

[Exb]

It's difficult to know what was happening away from the camera's - Fernando always seemed to be fighting in the races but maybe he wasn't putting in as much time behind the scenes (eg going through data, or simulator driving) than he maybe usually did??? - but that was possibly not all down to him anyway, Ferrari may not have wanted him going through certain data due to the fact he was leaving? It's likely towards the end of the season Ferrari would have been focusing its efforts on 2015 so they would not want Fernando knowing any of that and also why would Fernando want to put in loads of extra effort if it would improve the car for the following season, when he won't be driving it?

I don't think its an issue, and even if there is any truth in it I expect its due to the circumstances of him leaving and would be the same for any driver and team in that position. I think Anderson is just trying to create a story whilst there is no news from the F1 teams.

Edited by Exb, 22 December 2014 - 16:59.

[Nonesuch]

Well. It's not like Fred was 10/10 every weekend - despite the "Fred Mist" propagated in the media and on here. In fact - he was very average a couple of times. Perhaps that is what GA was getting at.

 
Of course not, nobody is 10/10 every weekend. If Anderson had said as much nobody would have bothered to print the article, even online.
 
It reads more like Anderson is trying to play up Button, for whatever reason, rather than a critical analysis of Alonso's performance in 2014.

Edited by Nonesuch, 22 December 2014 - 16:59.

[FirstWatt]

Couldn't agree more. I don't understand how people rate Alonso the best in F1 when he hasn't had a competitive teammate in years - the last time he did, he lost out.
 
I'm not saying he is bad, but I'm not sure people should dismiss any comment against Alonso when he hasn't really proven himself in recent years - we don't want another shock like Vettel 2014.

Gosh. You really mean this seriously?
And how do you define a "competitive teammate"?
A WDC?
A "by one point not WDC?"

[MirNyet]

This feels like the start of the Button vs Alonso nonsense that is going to be all over 2015. Anderson has no more knowledge of what was going through Alonso's head while in the car than you or I do. His anti-McLaren stance is also all over this - very poor in general.

[Ev0d3vil]

How much trash can this guy speak? If Alonso didnt give 100% and yet tonked Kimi, then what does that speak about Kimi?

[scheivlak]

How much trash can this guy speak? If Alonso didnt give 100% and yet tonked Kimi, then what does that speak about Kimi?

That he was even more demotivated - right from the start. It showed.

[FirstWatt]

It's a shame that even persons close in the environment seem not to be able to discern between car and driver performance.

[maverick69]

How much trash can this guy speak? If Alonso didnt give 100% and yet tonked Kimi, then what does that speak about Kimi?

An embarrassment? <ducks>

But I really think that's nothing to do with the point being made...... Because plenty of top drivers have had **** teammates who they've administered regular tonkings to.

Personally: I think there's aittle truth in it.

It's not outrageous to suggest that Fred at some point thought something along the lines of "My car is gash...... My teammate is gash....... I'm gonna be 6th at best...... I'm not here next year..... Why am I gonna risk sticking it in the fence? Sunday drive it is then!"

[Seanspeed]

Couldn't agree more. I don't understand how people rate Alonso the best in F1 when he hasn't had a competitive teammate in years - the last time he did, he lost out.

Kimi isnt a competitive driver?

Button should be worrying about his reputation right now considering how many perfectly good driver's reputations got destroyed after going up against Alonso.

[kevinracefan]

based on how crappy the car was, I'd agree that he didn't give it his all..NO ONE WOULD... PERIOD... no driver risks his own welfare pushing a shitbox to the limit every lap...

 

BUT... when he was racing Seb and Daniel, wheel to wheel that couple of times, I would say he was giving it what it could take.. for the sport of it, if for no other reason... no more, though...

[HPT]

Not sure where to put this but since it relates to Alonso:

http://www.motorspor...mises-briatore/

The interesting bit: Alonso asked Ferrari to use its veto power against dumping the V8 for the V6 hybrid but Ferrari didn't listen.

[kevinracefan]

I can't think of one "perfectly good driver's" reputation Fred destroyed...

 

in fact, I can only think of 1 good driver he was paired with, Lewis, and that was a push IMO...

 

The Ferrari shitbox ruined Kimi's reputation, not Fred..

[P123]

Well. It's not like Fred was 10/10 every weekend - despite the "Fred Mist" propagated in the media and on here. In fact - he was very average a couple of times. Perhaps that is what GA was getting at.

But anyways: It's GA. Just laugh and shake head........

Indeed, It's GA, so very large pinch of salt required when it comes to driver assessments. Maybe he's basing his theory on Abu Double, or the latter stages of the USGP? Kimi was a bit of a non-entity so it's hard to conclude either way whether Alonso dropped off or was not giving it 100%. But as you say, it's not like FA (or any driver) ever is a 10/10 every weekend. I also wonder how much the two mechanical DNFs he suffered unfairly colour perceptions of his late season form.

[HPT]

I can't think of one "perfectly good driver's" reputation Fred destroyed...

in fact, I can only think of 1 good driver he was paired with, Lewis, and that was a push IMO...

The Ferrari shitbox ruined Kimi's reputation, not Fred..

Shitboxes don't ruin driver's reputation. Look at what Minardi did for Alonso's. Being trashed by your team mate does. And that is exactly what happened to Kimi.

[Szoelloe]

Gary Anderson, REALLY?? He is the main reason I don't pay anymore for Autosport content.

[FullWets]

Whilst Alonso didn't perform badly this year at all, I didn't get the impression that he was performing as well as he had back in 2012 and 13 and I think Taran hit the mark with the fact that he didn't really have much reason to. And it's not like this is the first time, remember his 2009 season?, when the car is so far off the pace that he doesn't feel like hes racing for anything he can let his head drop, though he doesnt make mistakes anymore.

Alonso said it was his best year to date, matched with 2012. Coherently, F1 Metrics (a math model, not some biased journo or fanboy opinion, you know) ranks 2014 as one of his best years (9,13 points per race) and funnily enough, also very closely matched with 2009. He trounced a WDC teammate (and a very well considered one!) to a level not seen in 30 years. Again, in F1 cars are different. People tend to think drivers that won races (normally driving faster cars) performed better than those who didn't, irrespective of the level of the car. This is our fault, not the fault of the driver

 

As for the "motivation" thing... well for me it is plain BS. Every driver tries his best, independently of their car, because they will be hired and payed based on how well did they fare in comparison to their teammates, and also because of their legacy. Maybe the only commited drivers in 2014 where Hamilton and Rosberg and the rest were not motivated to the point of competing against each other???

[Clatter]

Kimi isnt a competitive driver?

Button should be worrying about his reputation right now considering how many perfectly good driver's reputations got destroyed after going up against Alonso.

We have heard the same thing said when he went up against JV and LH, he did OK against them and he will be fine now.

[FullWets]

Couldn't agree more. I don't understand how people rate Alonso the best in F1 when he hasn't had a competitive teammate in years - the last time he did, he lost out.

 

I'm not saying he is bad, but I'm not sure people should dismiss any comment against Alonso when he hasn't really proven himself in recent years - we don't want another shock like Vettel 2014.

Mate, I don't know how you evaluate driver performance but it seems to me like if you had been watching a parallel F1 reality these years. Would you explain who do you consider a competitive teammate?

[kimster89]

Alonso was giving 110%. Like he allways does even if he drives a tractor.

[KnucklesAgain]

Couldn't agree more. I don't understand how people rate Alonso the best in F1 when he hasn't had a competitive teammate in years - the last time he did, he lost out.

 

I'm not saying he is bad, but I'm not sure people should dismiss any comment against Alonso when he hasn't really proven himself in recent years - we don't want another shock like Vettel 2014.

 

He demolished the 3rd ranked driver from the Auosport 2013 ranking.

[scheivlak]

Alonso said it was his best year to date, matched with 2012.

 

Yes, he's pretty good in selling himself and that's exactly why it's not the most convincing argument 

 

 Coherently, F1 Metrics (a math model, not some biased journo or fanboy opinion, you know) ranks 2014 as one of his best years (9,13 points per race) and funnily enough, also very closely matched with 2009. 

 

 

It's a flawed math model, as discussed elsewhere 

For me the fact that 2014 is ranked as one of his best years is a proof that it is flawed!

 

 

As for the "motivation" thing... well for me it is plain BS. Every driver tries his best, independently of their car, because they will be hired and payed based on how well did they fare in comparison to their teammates, and also because of their legacy. 

It should be. Reality is sometimes different and more complex!

For a start it doesn't help if your teammate is not that motivated. Apart from that, it wasn't life-or-death for Fernando. He always knew there would be a place for him elsewhere. And when he made his mind up later in the season, he fulfilled his duty admirably but did not always give that that extra 10%.

[amppatel]

Mate, I don't know how you evaluate driver performance but it seems to me like if you had been watching a parallel F1 reality these years. Would you explain who do you consider a competitive teammate?

 

Hamilton. Not present Hamilton, Hamilton 2007.

Edited by amppatel, 22 December 2014 - 18:20.

[maverick69]

Oh, look who is touchy.
 
The point is, everyone can make up that stuff about a driver not giving his all and then claim it's "not outrageous" to think so. And of course in your case Hamilton as an example works so much better than everything ellse to bring that point across. You know what I mean, don't you?

Yes mate. And it's GA talking......

But my point was - Fred may have had a few times where he thought "Fark this. I've go nothing to prove right now. I'm off anyways". And like I said - there was few times when he didn't look to interested....... Or dare I say..... Average. Lewis was in a WDC fight. Kinda up the scale a bit.......