192 replies to this topic

[275 GTB-4]

GMACKIE, on 16 Mar 2015 - 07:29, said:

Had a chat to a friend, who had a car in that race. He told me they were called to a 'special meeting' to inform them that most of the field were at fault, and should read their CAMS manuals.
 
Don't be surprised if lawyers get involved in this.
 
Regarding "Car Clubs"...evidently the Mini club previously ran a good meeting, this one was 'run' by PIARC.

My understanding is that attendance at the meeting was not compulsory...

Disagree about any "Car Clubs" previous running of the meeting and VHRR who ran the meeting, not PIARC...

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 16 March 2015 - 08:20.

[Lee Nicolle]

Ray Bell, on 16 Mar 2015 - 05:47, said:

Sure, Greg, it works...

But there's a wall of cars up ahead, the camera car never moves, there's no indication whatever of what stops all the cars ahead of it. That's what I want to know.

The camera car moves,, it was hit from behind!

[Lee Nicolle]

275 GTB-4, on 16 Mar 2015 - 08:17, said:

My understanding is that attendance at the meeting was not compulsory...

Disagree about any "Car Clubs" previous running of the meeting and VHRR who ran the meeting, not PIARC...

Car clubs have usually run race meets ok. 

From what I have read here and have heard on the grapevine this race in particular was a full cock up. When they turned the lights off triggering the false start they should have had delayed start boards out, as well a yellow or better red flags out. The dramas with grid positions are not new either. Happened when I was there in 2012. And even back in the 90s when I raced there. 

 

As I have said before this lights out crap is just that. Crap. Green means go. Red means stop. Yellow means caution. CAMS and the international motorsport community should adress this stupid system. The heroes in Stupid cars and F1 cannot sort it out!

 

The the promoters and officials at PI need their backsides kicking until their noses bleeds. Worse so for blaming competitors. Maybe they should read the manual and then Use COMMONSENSE.

 

From what I hear a lot of GpN will NOT be at PI next year. They are very pissed off with this and the pricing too. 

Which is a pity as it has been a great meeting. But very expensive for the competitors.

[RW7]

GMACKIE, on 16 Mar 2015 - 07:29, said:

Had a chat to a friend, who had a car in that race. He told me they were called to a 'special meeting' to inform them that most of the field were at fault, and should read their CAMS manuals.

 

Don't be surprised if lawyers get involved in this.

 

Regarding "Car Clubs"...evidently the Mini club previously ran a good meeting, this one was 'run' by PIARC.

 

"read their CAMS manuals. " What a joke! You only have to watch the video to understand how confusing the signals were! I raced at Zhuhai International Circuit in China a few times and you sort of expect this sort of thing there.... but not in Australia

[275 GTB-4]

Just some calcification...ergh, clarification:

The VFT probably had the usually well trained Flag Marshal team on the ground, so no problem there, although there are always newbies or trainees that can make mistakes (and its not an exact science anyway!)

Whilst I have also seen cock ups at the highest level at other meetings (F1, V8's etc), I think the VIC system is the most prone to hit and miss outcomes because of the lack of experience accumulated by their race control teams (not forgetting one of my fav sayings...experience: can be, 25 years of doing something the wrong way!)

Over to someone else, I have said my bit

[Lee Nicolle]

275 GTB-4, on 16 Mar 2015 - 10:31, said:

Just some calcification...ergh, clarification:

The VFT probably had the usually well trained Flag Marshal team on the ground, so no problem there, although there are always newbies or trainees that can make mistakes (and its not an exact science anyway!)

Whilst I have also seen cock ups at the highest level at other meetings (F1, V8's etc), I think the VIC system is the most prone to hit and miss outcomes because of the lack of experience accumulated by their race control teams (not forgetting one of my fav sayings...experience: can be, 25 years of doing something the wrong way!)

Over to someone else, I have said my bit

AFAIK Victoria is like SA with a well trained body of people at all race meetings. Here in SA it is SAMROA.. So it should be consistent. The track equipment can be a problem ofcourse. The obvious is the starter is too far away though for a big meeting they should have relay boards down the grid.

It appears that Fox has spent plenty on the venue. The place was so nice compared with my days in the 90s where you had to to be towed out of the bottom of the pits when it was wet! and the access road to the top of the paddock and dummy grid was blocked with open wheelers.

So somewhere along the road this disaster has to be fixed, immediatly.

As Greg said there may well be lawyers involved. The last thing that is needed. Though with tens of thousands of damage you can understand why. These are owner drivers for the most part, not the stupidity involved in 'proffesional' racing these days. Too many a major investment of both money and love.

[Ray Bell]

Really strange...

The PIARC used to have the slickest lot of high-level officals and ran things smoothly. Some of their top men went into the AGP crew, and I think that dates back to the Adelaide days too.

[pallas1970]

I was in the Group M and O on race 3 I think, up around row 4, when the car stalled sign came out, then the red lights went out and everyone else just took off.  I was taught a car stalled at the start was one of the most dangerous things that could happen at the start, surely red flags rather than lights off and away?

[GMACKIE]

Lee, I agree with you about having to wear earphones - they were quite annoying for me, however, the advantages far out-weighed the discomfort. That race control/driver direct contact really won me.

 

I have no doubt that if that radio system was in place for 'That Start', we would not have had that carnage. All [48 ?] drivers would have been informed of the situation...not just the few at the front. It would be interesting to hear from other drivers who have raced at meeting using the radio communication system.

[275 GTB-4]

pallas1970, on 16 Mar 2015 - 20:33, said:

I was in the Group M and O on race 3 I think, up around row 4, when the car stalled sign came out, then the red lights went out and everyone else just took off.  I was taught a car stalled at the start was one of the most dangerous things that could happen at the start, surely red flags rather than lights off and away?

Yes, very dangerous! Stalled Car Sign can be shown if time allows, and used if possible...BUT the stalled car should definatelly have been covered by YELLOW flags and/or lights.

[pallas1970]

It was kind of difficult when you are stationary to tell if one of the cars in front has stalled, so i took it easy, but nobody else did.

 

275 GTB-4, on 16 Mar 2015 - 20:54, said:

Yes, very dangerous! Stalled Car Sign can be shown if time allows, and used if possible...BUT the stalled car should definatelly have been covered by YELLOW flags and/or lights.

[Lee Nicolle]

GMACKIE, on 16 Mar 2015 - 20:42, said:

Lee, I agree with you about having to wear earphones - they were quite annoying for me, however, the advantages far out-weighed the discomfort. That race control/driver direct contact really won me.

 

I have no doubt that if that radio system was in place for 'That Start', we would not have had that carnage. All [48 ?] drivers would have been informed of the situation...not just the few at the front. It would be interesting to hear from other drivers who have raced at meeting using the radio communication system.

I just cannot wear them. My ears itch and I feel disorientated. And I am by no means alone in this.

After all all they need is a few boards on the grid to say start is aborted. 

PI has a very long grid and a low starters stand. Even with those lights, just set them flashing and the drivers will know something is wrong!  Many tracks have the added disadvantage of the grid going around a corner. Mallala, Winton, even Bathurst with a full field so relay lights and boards are essential,,, and it seem do not happen there either.

[275 GTB-4]

pallas1970, on 16 Mar 2015 - 21:01, said:

It was kind of difficult when you are stationary to tell if one of the cars in front has stalled, so i took it easy

Good man  

 

(of course, you won't win any sheep stations like some of the others think they might...)

[RW7]

GMACKIE, on 16 Mar 2015 - 20:42, said:

Lee, I agree with you about having to wear earphones - they were quite annoying for me, however, the advantages far out-weighed the discomfort. That race control/driver direct contact really won me.

 

I have no doubt that if that radio system was in place for 'That Start', we would not have had that carnage. All [48 ?] drivers would have been informed of the situation...not just the few at the front. It would be interesting to hear from other drivers who have raced at meeting using the radio communication system.

 

I like it and I have kept my receiver used at Lakeside in the hope that the system will eventually be introduced in South Australia. (It was not expensive by the way). 

 

The most important, if not critical, aspect is that the person doing the talking has the capacity to remain calm in all situations as you don't want someone suddenly screaming in your ear when you are going into a fast corner....

[cooper997]

A bit of a comparison, although 2 different circuits.

image hosting over 10mb

46 years ago Jack Brabham in the BT31 at Sandown Tasman meeting

 

temp image upload

Technology moves on... the BT31 as raced by Peter Strauss now. Will it ever be red again? (and that man Collinson lurking in the background)

 

Mark Bisset's blog has a nice feature by the car's first private owner, Rodway Wolfe. (but maybe I should keep that as a well kept secret)

 

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 17 March 2015 - 07:04.

[cooper997]

Not sure if it's likely to be merged, but Speedy27 started another thread on this same PI meeting, 700 odd of his great professional photos.here.

http://forums.autosp...015-event-pics/

 

 

Saturday evening at PI, the racing has stopped and Beer O'Clock is in full swing...

 

I go for a little walk to find the Harburg/Park 962 sitting in the pitlane. One young photographer taking shots from all sorts of angles and veteran photographer, Neil Hammond taking the opportunity to run off a few more images. So I may as well too.

image uploading

 

Then on the actual track there had been a large group of Brock Commodores, but I was a bit late to the party. So only got some photos of the first of Holden's Group A homologation specials sitting there.

pic hosting

 

Stephen

[Piquet959]

The Mini car club have been running the PI Historic for years. The Holloway family were deeply involved. Michael as CoC, Janis in the tower/race control, their adult children involved in running the show as well. There was a falling out of some kind between VHRR/Ian Tate and the Mini Club/Michael Holloway.
So the Mini Club withdrew their support for the event and the VHRR found some other organisation to run the meeting. It was obvious that they weren't up to it from very early on.
Bad organisation, little feed back to competitors. I was told that the toilets in the spectator area were not cleaned, bins overflowing. The toilets down where the Group N guys were sited were open then closed then open again. Not all that clean either.

That on top of the increased entry fees was a bit off putting for me. Especially when the old 5Litre touring car/ taxis paid only $150 entry.

As far as race distances there is no parity for the same entry fees. Race lengths are all over the place and it's easy to see which is the favourite categories!
The HTCAV even put up a change to the under and over 3000cc split to make for more interesting racing and that was knocked on the head. The idea was to move the rotaries and the Capris into the over 3000cc and some of the slower over 3000cc cars down to make the racing overall closer rather than the rotaries and Capris running away int the distance. ANd the slower over 3000cc being lapped.
No the promoter knew better and what did we have rotaries and Capris then a huge gap to the rest of the field. Similar in the over 3000 cla.
Sometimes we the competitors have some smart ideas the the stuck in the mud (we've always done it that way) promoters should probably give better consideration toward getting a good race meeting better.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

[275 GTB-4]

Thanks Peter..."when will they ever learn"

[Lee Nicolle]

Piquet959, on 20 Mar 2015 - 09:53, said:

The Mini car club have been running the PI Historic for years. The Holloway family were deeply involved. Michael as CoC, Janis in the tower/race control, their adult children involved in running the show as well. There was a falling out of some kind between VHRR/Ian Tate and the Mini Club/Michael Holloway.
So the Mini Club withdrew their support for the event and the VHRR found some other organisation to run the meeting. It was obvious that they weren't up to it from very early on.
Bad organisation, little feed back to competitors. I was told that the toilets in the spectator area were not cleaned, bins overflowing. The toilets down where the Group N guys were sited were open then closed then open again. Not all that clean either.

That on top of the increased entry fees was a bit off putting for me. Especially when the old 5Litre touring car/ taxis paid only $150 entry.

As far as race distances there is no parity for the same entry fees. Race lengths are all over the place and it's easy to see which is the favourite categories!
The HTCAV even put up a change to the under and over 3000cc split to make for more interesting racing and that was knocked on the head. The idea was to move the rotaries and the Capris into the over 3000cc and some of the slower over 3000cc cars down to make the racing overall closer rather than the rotaries and Capris running away int the distance. ANd the slower over 3000cc being lapped.
No the promoter knew better and what did we have rotaries and Capris then a huge gap to the rest of the field. Similar in the over 3000 cla.
Sometimes we the competitors have some smart ideas the the stuck in the mud (we've always done it that way) promoters should probably give better consideration toward getting a good race meeting better.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

I would have though the track owner would have been responsible for dunny cleaning etc. And opening. something done as part of the rent fee.

The rest I agree with for the most part.

With the Gp Ns there is 2 or three ways to sort them out. Na Nb. Though the Mustangs screw that up.

 Fastest 50% and slowest, though some will sandbag in qualifying .

Ideally 3 races [wont happen] with under 2500, 2500- 3500 putting the Capris, Toranas and rotaries in one race and then over 3500 with Mustangs, Chevs, Chargers etc. Or run a bottom heavy field with under 3500 and over.

The best way is 3 classes, but commonsense with time means it will not happen. And there is class awards anyway!

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 20 March 2015 - 23:49.

[Lola5000]

Piquet959, on 20 Mar 2015 - 09:53, said:

The Mini car club have been running the PI Historic for years. The Holloway family were deeply involved. Michael as CoC, Janis in the tower/race control, their adult children involved in running the show as well. There was a falling out of some kind between VHRR/Ian Tate and the Mini Club/Michael Holloway.
So the Mini Club withdrew their support for the event and the VHRR found some other organisation to run the meeting. It was obvious that they weren't up to it from very early on.
Bad organisation, little feed back to competitors. I was told that the toilets in the spectator area were not cleaned, bins overflowing. The toilets down where the Group N guys were sited were open then closed then open again. Not all that clean either.

That on top of the increased entry fees was a bit off putting for me. Especially when the old 5Litre touring car/ taxis paid only $150 entry.

As far as race distances there is no parity for the same entry fees. Race lengths are all over the place and it's easy to see which is the favourite categories!
The HTCAV even put up a change to the under and over 3000cc split to make for more interesting racing and that was knocked on the head. The idea was to move the rotaries and the Capris into the over 3000cc and some of the slower over 3000cc cars down to make the racing overall closer rather than the rotaries and Capris running away int the distance. ANd the slower over 3000cc being lapped.
No the promoter knew better and what did we have rotaries and Capris then a huge gap to the rest of the field. Similar in the over 3000 cla.
Sometimes we the competitors have some smart ideas the the stuck in the mud (we've always done it that way) promoters should probably give better consideration toward getting a good race meeting better.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

I've been told that the contract for this meeting has expired? So who will be running it next year? Rumour has it being the circuit owners with a committee of like minded people.

[timbo]

With regards to start lights, I remember back a while ago when green meant go, and red meant stop. How hard is that?
Maybe we could bring back a national flag. It is historic, after all.

[Piquet959]

I probably should have qualified some of my statements with the legal point "it is alleged" or " I believe" but I didn't and don't intend to now.

The hassle that I can see was the fact that the starting light system was experiencing major problems and that the grid is very long. Not unusually Grp N has one of the largest grids. At that event there were 47 under 3000cc cars entered.

That means the grid is some 24 rows long. The lights and flags let alone the "delayed start" board are a long way away. I have started from the back of the grid there so have some idea.

After a similar problem a number of years ago the recommendation, if I remember correctly, was to have relay lights, and flags along the pit wall. It doesn't seem that that idea has been implemented. That incident resulted in around 12-16 cars being damaged between light damage to a complete right off. At least one person was hospitalised and a big enquiry ensued. It seems that that lesson may not have been learned from.
I suppose I had better get my flack jacket out of the cupboard!

Edited by Piquet959, 23 March 2015 - 10:34.

[Lee Nicolle]

Piquet959, on 22 Mar 2015 - 10:58, said:

I probably should have qualified some of my statements with the legal point "it is alleged" or " I believe" but I didn't and don't intend to now.

The hassle that I can see was the fact that the starting light system was experiencing major problems and that the grid is very long. Not unusually Grp N has one of the largest grids. At that event there were 47 under 3000cc cars entered.

That means the grid is some 24 rows long. The lights and flags let alone the "delayed start" board are a long way away. I have started from the back of the grid there so have some idea.

After a similar problem a number of years ago the recommendation, if I remember correctly, was to have really lights, and flags along the pit wall. It doesn't seem that that idea has been implemented. That incident resulted in around 12-16 cars being damaged between light damage to a complete right off. At least one person was hospitalised and a big enquiry ensued. It seems that that lesson may not have been learned from.
I suppose I had better get my flack jacket out of the cupboard!

No flack from me. Lessons have not been learnt. Speaking to a Porsche racer on Sat who started a long way back you cannot see the lights or boards. 

It is quite simple. Additional lights on the pit wall as well as relay boards.

No excuse for what happened!

[275 GTB-4]

Piquet959, on 22 Mar 2015 - 10:58, said:

I probably should have qualified some of my statements with the legal point "it is alleged" or " I believe" but I didn't and don't intend to now.

The hassle that I can see was the fact that the starting light system was experiencing major problems and that the grid is very long. Not unusually Grp N has one of the largest grids. At that event there were 47 under 3000cc cars entered.

That means the grid is some 24 rows long. The lights and flags let alone the "delayed start" board are a long way away. I have started from the back of the grid there so have some idea.

After a similar problem a number of years ago the recommendation, if I remember correctly, was to have really lights, and flags along the pit wall. It doesn't seem that that idea has been implemented. That incident resulted in around 12-16 cars being damaged between light damage to a complete right off. At least one person was hospitalised and a big enquiry ensued. It seems that that lesson may not have been learned from.
I suppose I had better get my flack jacket out of the cupboard!

Relay and Flak...young fella ma lad!

Which brings as neatly back to my original nasturtium that VIC has a problem with R/C corporate knowledge from meeting to meeting.

[Piquet959]

Auto correct on an iPad can be a bitch at times!

[275 GTB-4]

Just being a Devil and an Advocate, maybe Mr Fox? (current owner?) could react to the criticism expressed here and the problem by modifying his grid to be staggered, better lights, better Starters Box and arrange for the necessary relay Flags at each meeting?

[pigs have also been known to fly, of course]

[RW7]

275 GTB-4, on 23 Mar 2015 - 12:06, said:

Just being a Devil and an Advocate, maybe Mr Fox? (current owner?) could react to the criticism expressed here and the problem by modifying his grid to be staggered, better lights, better Starters Box and arrange for the necessary relay Flags at each meeting?

[pigs have also been known to fly, of course]

 

I don't know why it is so hard. EVERYTHING else in the motor racing world these days is about safety and this has been an issue since the time of the starting flag at Phillip Island!

[The Chasm]

The side by side grid concept was I understand developed as a safety system - unfortunately the system has rarely or ever been explained to most competitors in Australia.

 

It works like this - with the cars in two long lines, if a car stalls anywhere in the grid the field can safely "move off" by shifting left or right and staying out of the grid lineup.

 

This of course only works if drivers stay clear of the gridded line of cars until they are sure there are no stalled cars ahead.

 

The old 3 - 2 -3 staggered grids on some circuits, meant a stalled car could be encountered almost anywhere on the grid with no warning.

 

That's how it's supposed to work I understand - anyone else heard this theory ?.

[Catalina Park]

I thought the current system was based on the idea that the stalled cars would be moved out of the way by the cars on the back row that are doing 160kph by the time they reach the start line.

[Ray Bell]

That's the first sensible post in this thread in some time...

[275 GTB-4]

Catalina Park, on 24 Mar 2015 - 10:07, said:

I thought the current system was based on the idea that the stalled cars would be moved out of the way by the cars on the back row that are doing 160kph by the time they reach the start line.

Harsh but fair enough...

[cooper997]

A little friendly Lotus Seven rivalry... James (Pallas1970) & his mate, Will (#6) play fair at Honda.

image hosting 30 mb

 

Bill Hemmings ex Bob Jane Racing Elfin 400

image uploading

 

Stephen

[pallas1970]

275 GTB-4, on 24 Mar 2015 - 21:36, said:

Harsh but fair enough...

 

Not that amusing really, didn't SA driver Peter Hall die doing exactly that in 2013 when his 240z ran into a stalled car on the grid?

[RW7]

pallas1970, on 27 Mar 2015 - 01:16, said:

Not that amusing really, didn't SA driver Peter Hall die doing exactly that in 2013 when his 240z ran into a stalled car on the grid?

 

...and that is EXACTLY the point!

[Catalina Park]

The point that CAMS or the FIA seem to miss is that when the grids were closely bunched there wasn't the big speed difference between the front row and the back row.
The last time I drove the medical chase car at Oran Park was when they changed the grid to the FIA style spacing. Instead of the back of the grid being on the main straight it was part way around BP/Energol corner where they had to do a hill start!

I attended a start line crash at Eastern Creek where a car on the front row broke a driveshaft and got hit by a car off the back row. It was a huge hit with a ruptured fuel tank that sprayed burning fuel everywhere.

It is an example of something done in the interests of F1 safety that has increased the danger to most other competitors.

[Lee Nicolle]

RW7, on 27 Mar 2015 - 01:25, said:

...and that is EXACTLY the point!

As I understand Peters accident was just that. He hit an unsighted stalled car from  behind at a fair speed. AGAIN, boards and possible more waved yellows. That one was more excuseable  though than the one recently. This is not just PI, but all tracks though it seems there is more incidents there. Though Michaels recollections too point out issues everywhere.

 

And today I competed at Mt Alma hillclimb, I was issued Peters usual number. 24. Which brings his death back. RIP.

[Catalina Park]

I have been informed that a full apology from CAMS will be forthcoming to the Under 3 Litre competitors.
Yes, you heard correctly, a full apology from CAMS.

Next they will be admitting that the current grid arrangements are more dangerous than the previous versions. Oh hang on that would never happen now would it?

[GMACKIE]

It does happen! I was standing next to Simon, my son's co-driver, at Phillip Island, when he was given a genuine apology by a high-ranking CAMS official.

 

The previous year at the Island Magic meeting, Simon [after a driver change in the 1 hour race] drove out of pit lane, and almost immediately passed a slower car. At turn 1 he was aware of a yellow flag, and acted accordingly. Simon was 'pinged' for passing under yellow flags, and given a fine. In-car video shows that there was no yellow at the pit exit, and the first yellow he saw was at turn 1. After almost a year of deliberation, CAMS finally told Simon [via email] he "Had no case to answer", an then the pesonal apology, as above. PIARC fought it all the way, as it put the blame on them.

[2Bob]

I have had my moments with CAMS in the past and probably will again in the future, however when the red mist has cleared up I have also, mostly, had to admit that they may have been right....  I also think that being a CAMS official has to be a fairly hard life!  Trying, very hard, to do the right thing looking after the safety of all, competitors, spectators and the officials themselves as well as being as fair as possible to competitors can't be easy.  In general they all do a damn fine job.  My thanks to them.  

 

I was driven to add these comments after the tv and newspaper coverage of the recent rugby league game in Sydney that ended up with the spectators throwing bottles at the referees (umpires? I don't normally follow league) after a disputed penalty.  As far as I am concerned the captain of the offending team, who I think brought about the penalty, should be kept off the field for the rest of the season for his verbal and visually very intimidatory attack on the referee.  His attitude would have been very encouraging to the dick heads in the crowd to take the actions they took as far as I could see.  Ban those spectators for life, the spectators in general from that team for their next game, maybe even ban that team from the next game too - the team coach didn't seem to think his captain did anything wrong.  End of rant about 'football'.

 

If we, the competitors, can't treat officials with a bit more respect we may end up losing the officials we do have.  They are not easy to get, probably harder to keep and a valuable resource I think.  

 

To the officials at the recent Mallala meeting where we had a bit of a stuff up at the start of the first historics race and a second drivers meeting for those competitors involved I take my hat of to all concerned, officials and drivers, for discussing the stuff up reasonably calmly with drivers opinions taken into account and the agreement modifying the start procedure for subsequent events.  

[275 GTB-4]

2Bob, on 06 Apr 2015 - 01:16, said:

I have had my moments with CAMS in the past and probably will again in the future, however when the red mist has cleared up I have also, mostly, had to admit that they may have been right....  I also think that being a CAMS official has to be a fairly hard life!  Trying, very hard, to do the right thing looking after the safety of all, competitors, spectators and the officials themselves as well as being as fair as possible to competitors can't be easy.  In general they all do a damn fine job.  My thanks to them.  
 
I was driven to add these comments after the tv and newspaper coverage of the recent rugby league game in Sydney that ended up with the spectators throwing bottles at the referees (umpires? I don't normally follow league) after a disputed penalty.  As far as I am concerned the captain of the offending team, who I think brought about the penalty, should be kept off the field for the rest of the season for his verbal and visually very intimidatory attack on the referee.  His attitude would have been very encouraging to the dick heads in the crowd to take the actions they took as far as I could see.  Ban those spectators for life, the spectators in general from that team for their next game, maybe even ban that team from the next game too - the team coach didn't seem to think his captain did anything wrong.  End of rant about 'football'.
 
If we, the competitors, can't treat officials with a bit more respect we may end up losing the officials we do have.  They are not easy to get, probably harder to keep and a valuable resource I think.  
 
To the officials at the recent Mallala meeting where we had a bit of a stuff up at the start of the first historics race and a second drivers meeting for those competitors involved I take my hat of to all concerned, officials and drivers, for discussing the stuff up reasonably calmly with drivers opinions taken into account and the agreement modifying the start procedure for subsequent events.

As a former CAMS (and other organisers) official, it is always good to see a little appreciation for efforts...especially from the organisers and the Drivers. However, we are drifting off course...the discussion was about something that needs to be fixed, not something (CAMS) that works after a fashion lots of times

[SJ Lambert]

 

Will Walker, about to join the fray on damp Friday.

[tedidesign]

I was involved with this incident, with my Cortina sustaining damage. I started back on row 18 of the grid, and from my vehicle, on the outside of the row, no board, held by a start official could be seen.

Historically at this meeting we have had practice on Friday morning, followed by qualifying on Friday afternoon, then 4 races over the weekend. This year we went straight into qualifying on Friday morning (very wet in fact), and then the race on Friday afternoon. In my opinion this is the basis of the problem. I believe that the organisers did not have sufficient officials to stage a race on the Friday afternoon.

In the dummy grid, behind the pits there was only one official to marshal 48 cars into their basic starting order. On the starting grid, from memory, there was two officials on the ground directing cars to the LHS or RHS of the track to put us in our grid position. We were literally still being put into position when the red lights went out. There was no relay of yellow flags coming out from behind the catch fence as there was no one to wave them.

If I was a better driver I would have managed to steer away from the rear of the Escort in front of me and not run into the back of him. Cars can be fixed, and I wasn't injured. It was just a disappointing weekend, it used to be such a great race meeting

Edited by tedidesign, 08 April 2015 - 04:40.

[RW7]

tedidesign, on 08 Apr 2015 - 04:39, said:

I was involved with this incident, with my Cortina sustaining damage. I started back on row 18 of the grid, and from my vehicle, on the outside of the row, no board, held by a start official could be seen.

Historically at this meeting we have had practice on Friday morning, followed by qualifying on Friday afternoon, then 4 races over the weekend. This year we went straight into qualifying on Friday morning (very wet in fact), and then the race on Friday afternoon. In my opinion this is the basis of the problem. I believe that the organisers did not have sufficient officials to stage a race on the Friday afternoon.

In the dummy grid, behind the pits there was only one official to marshal 48 cars into their basic starting order. On the starting grid, from memory, there was two officials on the ground directing cars to the LHS or RHS of the track to put us in our grid position. We were literally still being put into position when the red lights went out. There was no relay of yellow flags coming out from behind the catch fence as there was no one to wave them.

If I was a better driver I would have managed to steer away from the rear of the Escort in front of me and not run into the back of him. Cars can be fixed, and I wasn't injured. It was just a disappointing weekend, it used to be such a great race meeting

 

 

That is a very well thought out and unemotional account of the issue. I hope the PIARC are reading this thread!