1704 replies to this topic

[MNader]

RPM40, on 31 Oct 2015 - 23:31, said:

What is the engine penalty situation at Red Bull? Heard they may be starting from the bank.

 

is there anyone starting from the front tomorrow then?

[TFLB]

MNader, on 31 Oct 2015 - 23:44, said:

It just sounds idiotic/childish to call me that when i have only posted here a handful of times at best.

 

 

Anyway, I don't know what point it is your are trying to make but i think that whatever happened so far is useless until we see the results tomorrow.

 

and to me it seems like a good job to both getting the maximum of the car, if the car could have gotten more, then both failed in doing so. (being on a good lap and messing it up in the final sector means either the driver overdrove or the car couldn't handle that)

Was not necessarily referring to you, more of a general point. And no it is not pointless comparing them so far, qualifying and practice matter too. 

[goingthedistance]

Daniel's PU is a lot older than Daniil's. Just sayin'. This was always the race that was going to hurt for him losing one of the two new PUs they took penalties for. He is 3-4km/h slower than Daniil in the speed trap. Maybe that's different downforce levels though,

[v@sh]

Looks pretty close this weekend with Kvyat looking more comfortable in the car than DR. Should make for an interesting race between the two.

[Ricciardo2014]

RPM40, on 31 Oct 2015 - 23:31, said:

What is the engine penalty situation at Red Bull? Heard they may be starting from the bank.

 

Haven't seen that reported anywhere mate.

 

Far as the weekend goes, the two Dan's have been pretty equal I'd say.

 

8 tenths in DK's favour in practice 1

1 tenth in DK's favour in practice 2

3 tenths in DR's favour in practice 3

 

And we all know how close Quali was.

 

No way to choose between the two yet in my opinion.

[DrivenF1]

Ricciardo2014, on 01 Nov 2015 - 02:35, said:

Haven't seen that reported anywhere mate.

 

Far as the weekend goes, the two Dan's have been pretty equal I'd say.

 

8 tenths in DK's favour in practice 1

1 tenth in DK's favour in practice 2

3 tenths in DR's favour in practice 3

 

And we all know how close Quali was.

 

No way to choose between the two yet in my opinion.

 

DK 3 - DR 1?

 

They have been relatively evenly matched this weekend in all seriousness with a slight edge to Daniil. Ricciardo may be struggling with the older engine though.

[Ricciardo2014]

Cult, on 01 Nov 2015 - 02:42, said:

DK 3 - DR 1?

 

They have been relatively evenly matched this weekend in all seriousness with a slight edge to Daniil. Ricciardo may be struggling with the older engine though.

 

If you mean 3 sessions to DK and 1 to DR for sure I agree.

That's the way it is.

 

I really don't know how much Daniel's older engine might be playing a factor ?

Maybe it's enough to put him behind, maybe not ?

 

It seems to be a pretty constant thing throughout his F1 career that he starts the weekend off pretty steady, but constantly improves session by session.

That's why I can't pick between the two because Daniil was equal in Quali.

 

If it's a dry race I'd expect Ricciardo to be pretty good with tyre conservation, so it will be interesting to see them battle it out.

[V8 Fireworks]

Well done to Kvyat 

 

Like I said at the beginning it's "Too close to call "   

[TDN]

Full points to kvyat. Has had DR covered this weekend.

[KavB]

A shame he lost out on that podium.

[v@sh]

Yep nice driving by Kvyat all weekend!

[athlon]

I'm sorry for Daniil. He was class during the weekend, shame for the lost podium, he would have completely deserved it. But overall a big well done to him. He raced well.

[Waggy]

Kvyat may have saved his career at RedBull. 

[sergeym]

Good results for both drivers. If they did not take softs or without SC it could have been 3-4.

[jannyg]

Kvyat has a big future ahead of him. I don't think Vettel had Ricciardo covered on any weekend like Kvyat just did

[sennafan24]

Well done to Kvyat

 

That was his best weekend in a while 

[wonk123]

Very good weekend by DK. Shame about the lack of power from Renault, Bottas cruised past at the restart

[icecream]

Needed strong weekend for Kvyat!!      Ric never look quiet as comfortable. 

[Cobra61]

Waggy, on 01 Nov 2015 - 20:48, said:

Kvyat may have saved his career at RedBull. 

 

Like i've said - RIC is the one who must fight for place  in RB in 2016.

5 years in F1, 2 years in RBR and got beaten by 2nd youngest in Formula 1.

 

It's a complete disaster.

Edited by Cobra61, 01 November 2015 - 21:02.

[MNader]

Cobra61, on 01 Nov 2015 - 20:58, said:

Like i've said - RIC is the one who must fight for place  in RB in 2016.

5 years in F1, 2 years in RBR and got beaten by 2nd youngest in Formula 1.

 

It's a complete disaster.

 

I really disagree. DR was fighting for the win in Hungary and at some point in Austin.

 

DR has been quick and very racey this year but with the car they have he just had to take too many risks.

 

 

DK has held his own though and has proven to be just as good as DR, who we know is very good.

 

 

To me this year takes nothing away from Ricciardo but adds more to Kvyat

[mwf1]

Cobra61, on 01 Nov 2015 - 20:58, said:

Like i've said - RIC is the one who must fight for place  in RB in 2016.

5 years in F1, 2 years in RBR and got beaten by 2nd youngest in Formula 1.

 

It's a complete disaster.

Hilarious, I do wonder wether Ricciardo got some front wing damage in that touch with Vettel

[Waggy]

Cobra61, on 01 Nov 2015 - 20:58, said:

Like i've said - RIC is the one who must fight for place  in RB in 2016.

5 years in F1, 2 years in RBR and got beaten by 2nd youngest in Formula 1.

 

It's a complete disaster.

Deep down you know that Ricciardo is constantly the faster of the two, he has just had bad luck, Kvyat was faster today but how much speed did Ricciardo lose from the crash? But far play to Kvyat he showed good pace this weekend, but do you really beleive he will outpace Ricciardo the last 2 races? I dont think so

[athlon]

Hopefully this will boost Kvyat's confidence before the Brazilian GP, this will be the last chance for RBR to shine this season. Hopefully he'll be retained for the coming season. 

[mwf1]

Kyvat should be retained he has done a great job.

[RPM40]

Grear race by Kvyat, he deserved a podium

Wondering if Ricciardo had damage from Vettel hitting him on lap 1. It was pretty solid contact

[DILLIGAF]

RPM40, on 01 Nov 2015 - 21:13, said:

Grear race by Kvyat, he deserved a podium

Wondering if Ricciardo had damage from Vettel hitting him on lap 1. It was pretty solid contact

I wondered the same, but I think 5th was the best result Dan could have got today. DK was very good this weekend and always had DR covered. Qualy and race go to Kvyat.

[DILLIGAF]

Cobra61, on 01 Nov 2015 - 20:58, said:

Like i've said - RIC is the one who must fight for place  in RB in 2016.
5 years in F1, 2 years in RBR and got beaten by 2nd youngest in Formula 1.
 
It's a complete disaster.

 

 There are no words.

Edited by DILLIGAF, 01 November 2015 - 21:41.

[kvyatfan]

Cobra61, on 01 Nov 2015 - 20:58, said:

Like i've said - RIC is the one who must fight for place  in RB in 2016.

5 years in F1, 2 years in RBR and got beaten by 2nd youngest in Formula 1.

 

It's a complete disaster.

Only 'disastrous' because of a difficult year. I think objective and knowledgeable people would put Ricciardo top 3-4, easily. And there's nothing that would really drop him this year, only some lack of presence/visibility due to various car troubles, which isn't really objective.

 

And Sainz would be a few months younger, so Kvyat is third youngest. I always like supporting the new guys and underdogs, but not if it requires putting others down.

Edited by kvyatfan, 01 November 2015 - 21:42.

[ch103]

I think Ricciardo has become the most aggressive driver in F1.  The risks he takes are calculated ones, but he is always going for it.

[djonas79]

Kvyat outscoring Ric is the story of the season. Nobody expected that. Sure, Ric had some misfortunes, but he looks nowhere near as good as he was in last year. Or Kvyat is just this good. Who knows... Lucky for Ric that 2014 happened. If we teleported from 2013 to 2015, everyone would say that Red Bull has two lousy drivers.

[Growing]

I think Ricciardo prefer grippest tracks. He get some trouble with tracks with low grip. He s said would prefer use the primes in last stint. May be because they works better in low temperatures (bottas has just said it in post race conference). My guess is ricciardo takes more time to warm his tyres but conserves them better than the most of drivers.

[lbennie]

epic race from daniil.

 

Had Ric in his pocket all weekend.

 

 

Awesome pass though from Ric at the end of the straight on a merc PU.

Edited by lbennie, 01 November 2015 - 22:35.

[v@sh]

djonas79, on 01 Nov 2015 - 21:52, said:

Kvyat outscoring Ric is the story of the season. Nobody expected that. Sure, Ric had some misfortunes, but he looks nowhere near as good as he was in last year. Or Kvyat is just this good. Who knows... Lucky for Ric that 2014 happened. If we teleported from 2013 to 2015, everyone would say that Red Bull has two lousy drivers.

 

Then you probably haven't been watching the races properly. Especially once the car came good from Silverstone onwards.

 

The same could be said of JEV outscoring DR in their first season together. Also to compare to last year IMO is silly, would you have been saying that if he had won Hungary where he was fighting for the win and Kvyat was lucky to even get the points there while all the cars fell away for him?

 

Once good race does not equal a good consistent season. Kvyat has benefited when the car was good and DR had problems but at the same time he has also driven well. Kvyat IMO is still not as quick or better than Ricciardo over a season despite what the points currently show.

 

As Growing alluded to, Ricciardo prefers when the track is grippy and I agree with that. Not just low grip but also in mixed conditions which is where JEV was better than Ricciardo.

[gowebber]

Solid race from  Red Bull. Kudos to Kvyat for edging out Ricciardo this weekend. Pretty boring race though, the DRS didn't work too well. Not much passing. Lol @ Vettel having a shocker, he should have left room for Ricciardo into T1. WB Kvyatfan, nice to see ya back in when DK is beating Ricciardo! 

Edited by gowebber, 01 November 2015 - 22:34.

[gowebber]

djonas79, on 01 Nov 2015 - 21:52, said:

Kvyat outscoring Ric is the story of the season. Nobody expected that. Sure, Ric had some misfortunes, but he looks nowhere near as good as he was in last year. Or Kvyat is just this good. Who knows... Lucky for Ric that 2014 happened. If we teleported from 2013 to 2015, everyone would say that Red Bull has two lousy drivers.

 

Lol your dreaming mate. Ricciardo has had the lions share of car problems in the back half of the season when alot more points have been on offer. He would be comfortably ahead of Kvyat if not for those problems. Ricciardo has regularly had about .3 or so a lap in qualli and quicker in more races this season. The margin here was not as much as that. Well done to DK tho this weekend he had the edge.

Edited by gowebber, 01 November 2015 - 22:32.

[YoungGun]

4 to 1 for Kvyat this weekend. Constantly improving and exceeding team expectations.

[massivechicken]

Well done Daniil! Great driving. He certainly looked way more comfortable than DR in the race. I don't think DR had his setup nailed as well as Daniil. 

 

I hope he's done enough to get another year alongside my hero DR, he deserves it. DR needs a good teammate to really push him, he can't have it too easy!!

[Growing]

I think an important thing to analyse in this race is an odd interview of ricciardo to sky sports. He said Dani was better whit options but he was confortable with the primes. He complained about his team strategy (we wanna to end the race on the primes). 

[kvyatfan]

gowebber, on 01 Nov 2015 - 22:29, said:

Solid race from  Red Bull. Kudos to Kvyat for edging out Ricciardo this weekend. Pretty boring race though, the DRS didn't work too well. Not much passing. Lol @ Vettel having a shocker, he should have left room for Ricciardo into T1. WB Kvyatfan, nice to see ya back in when DK is beating Ricciardo! 

Well it's a busy time of year for me and I missed a few races. I understand there were some bad ones though, especially for Kvyat. Not really looking forward to catching up on those but I heard one was an excellent race.

[RPM40]

The strange thing for Kvyat is, despite currently leading Ricciardo in the points, I have found races that he was actually faster on track few and far between despite the commentators constant reminder he's 'out scoring his team mate'. It seems if anything more a reflection of his better mechanical luck than superior pace. But this race he genuinely lived up to the tag he's had thrust upon him.

[DILLIGAF]

Kvyat's seat is safe for 2016 IF Red Bull are on the grid!!

http://www.bbc.com/s...rmula1/34695474
 
Good on him, he deserves another year imo.

Edited by DILLIGAF, 02 November 2015 - 02:08.

[Ricciardo2014]

Cobra61, on 01 Nov 2015 - 20:58, said:

Like i've said - RIC is the one who must fight for place  in RB in 2016.

5 years in F1, 2 years in RBR and got beaten by 2nd youngest in Formula 1.

 

It's a complete disaster.

 

Man, I hope you stick around just for the comedic value 

 

Great weekend for Daniil.

Gotta give this one to the young fella !

 

I thought Daniel might be able to pull something out of the bag with his tyre conservation, but at the end there he couldn't.

 

I was one of the ones who voted Ricciardo would win over 65% of Quali and Races, but it's a pretty tight battle !

 

Good to see Daniil has retained his seat, he definitely deserves it.

 

Now all they need is another 3 years to fit and develop a new engine so these boys can show what they've actually got   

[goingthedistance]

RPM40, on 02 Nov 2015 - 01:02, said:

The strange thing for Kvyat is, despite currently leading Ricciardo in the points, I have found races that he was actually faster on track few and far between despite the commentators constant reminder he's 'out scoring his team mate'. It seems if anything more a reflection of his better mechanical luck than superior pace. But this race he genuinely lived up to the tag he's had thrust upon him.

 

Daniil has been thoroughly outqualified by Dan (11-6), and Dan has had a string of DNFs or near DNFs due to things outside of his control, which has lost him a lot of points. I think Dan's been the superior driver in the second half of the season at least. Even in this race where Dan went the wrong way with the setup and had a much older PU at a track that punishes PUs - he wasn't ultimately that far off Kyvat. On the harder tyre he appeared quicker. 

 

Daniil has had very good luck in the second half of the season, and when he had a few retirements in the first half they rarely led to big points losses, unlike Dan. 

 

This season reminds me a lot of 2012 at STR, Dan was clearly the quicker driver but had much worse luck than JEV, which ultimately distorted the final standings. 

 

Having said all that Kyvat outperformed Dan at this race, one of the few weekends this year that has been clear. He's been under pressure to keep his seat and finally delivered a complete race performance - the missing piece in the puzzle for him. I've never doubted his pace but he's lacked consistency in pretty much every race. If he starts driving like this every race Daniel will have a proper battle on his hands. 

Edited by goingthedistance, 02 November 2015 - 12:00.

[GhostR]

Daniil's weekend, he really deserved P3 from that race but Bottas lucked into it. Without the safety car I suspect Ricciardo would have had Bottas covered as well, although it would have been touch-and-go depending on when (and if!) Bottas made his stop for fresh boots. 

 

What I have to wonder is: how much longer will Ricciardo's current engine last? And have they had to turn it down (and how far) in order to get the reliability they've had from it so far? Taking nothing away from Kvyat, but I'd be surprised if they're running on completely equal terms at this point - Kvyat has same spare parts available, while any failure on Ricciardo's car is going to create penalties.

 

As for Cobra and his friend who seem hellbent on talking down Ricciardo - they're clearly ignoring that Ricciardo's lost a couple dozen more points through reliability failures than Kvyat (and that's conservative, as I'm not calculating in any allowance for the points Kvyat has gained when Ricciardo has retired while in front). Red Bull will know the true situation between the two of them, and the fact that they have a watertight contract with Ricciardo that prevented Ferrari poaching him when they came knocking, but Kvyat has only just been confirmed for next year, tells us what we need to know.

 

Kvyat's good, and has shown flashes of being brilliant. Ricciardo is top-drawer, and a few reliability gremlins isn't going to change that.

[RPM40]

goingthedistance, on 02 Nov 2015 - 11:53, said:

Daniil has been thoroughly outqualified by Dan (11-6), and Dan has had a string of DNFs or near DNFs due to things outside of his control, which has lost him a lot of points. I think Dan's been the superior driver in the second half of the season at least. Even in this race where Dan went the wrong way with the setup and had a much older PU at a track that punishes PUs - he wasn't ultimately that far off Kyvat. On the harder tyre he appeared quicker. 

 

Daniil has had very good luck in the second half of the season, and when he had a few retirements in the first half they rarely led to big points losses, unlike Dan. 

 

This season reminds me a lot of 2012 at STR, Dan was clearly the quicker driver but had much worse luck than JEV, which ultimately distorted the final standings. 

 

Having said all that Kyvat outperformed Dan at this race, one of the few weekends this year that has been clear. He's been under pressure to keep his seat and finally delivered a complete race performance - the missing piece in the puzzle for him. I've never doubted his pace but he's lacked consistency in pretty much every race. If he starts driving like this every race Daniel will have a proper battle on his hands. 

 

I agree that Ricciardo has been clearly better this season. But as you said, nothing seems to go his way. Even this race I think there is a fair chance he had front wing damage from Vettel, it seems he finds an incident most races, if its not a mechanical failure its a collision. 

 

Its quite likely Kvyat will beat him in the title this year, which I don't think will do much for his reputation, even if those in the know have actually seen their relative performances. 

[Cobra61]

kvyatfan, on 01 Nov 2015 - 21:41, said:

Only 'disastrous' because of a difficult year. I think objective and knowledgeable people would put Ricciardo top 3-4, easily. 

 

This "knowledge" based on what?

 

2 pretty avergage years in STR. 

Performed well against the backdrop of unmotivated Vettel.

 

Oh, i see, according to the number of racing incindents he is among the four top drivers. 

There was few races when he had 2-3 incidents. 

[DrivenF1]

It's 6-6 in races where they've both finished.

 

Some of Kvyat's H2H wins have a slightly asterisk next to them though. Hungary and Japan in particular where Massa, Hamilton and Rosberg were pretty instrumental in causing Ricciardo pain.

 

Kvyat has been getting better and better but doesn't deserve the championship lead over Ricciardo.

Edited by Cult, 02 November 2015 - 16:59.

[krea]

Cult, on 02 Nov 2015 - 16:59, said:

It's 6-6 in races where they've both finished.

 

Some of Kvyat's H2H wins have a slightly asterisk next to them though. Hungary and Japan in particular where Massa, Hamilton and Rosberg were pretty instrumental in causing Ricciardo pain.

 

Kvyat has been getting better and better but doesn't deserve the championship lead over Ricciardo.

 

wow

Edited by krea, 02 November 2015 - 18:56.

[v@sh]

krea, on 02 Nov 2015 - 18:55, said:

wow

 

He's just basically saying that the WDC points aren't representative of the performances between the two drivers.

 

Harsh way to put it but many would be in agreement. If you look at both the qualifying battle and races since Silverstone DR has had the upper hand but the points just don't show it. Also all the major publications majority of the weekends have given the points for Ricciardo even if he hasn't gained the points over Kcyat other than this weekend which Kvyat thoroughly deserved on a solid qualifying/race.

[wonk123]

v@sh, on 03 Nov 2015 - 08:22, said:

He's just basically saying that the WDC points aren't representative of the performances between the two drivers.

 

Harsh way to put it but many would be in agreement. If you look at both the qualifying battle and races since Silverstone DR has had the upper hand but the points just don't show it. Also all the major publications majority of the weekends have given the points for Ricciardo even if he hasn't gained the points over Kcyat other than this weekend which Kvyat thoroughly deserved on a solid qualifying/race.

 

All the publications must rate Ricciardo, as they gave it 9 -7 this week to DK. They must think it is almost superhuman to qualify .001seconds and finish 1 place ahead of DR