120 replies to this topic

[Marklar]

After the usual discussions about who is the best rookie so far this season I would like to know which current driver impressed you most during his rookie season and why?

Of course you have to consider certain circumstances like pre F1 experience, team mate comparisons, differences in the eras (eg test limitations, more difficult to adapt cars), ect.

Edited by Marklar, 14 August 2015 - 14:27.

[Counterbalance]

Lewis Hamilton, 2007. It's a no brainier. Simply because of the way he matched and beat the incumbent WDC. It was amazing to watch.

[Exb]

Will Stevens - 2014 Marussia???

(IIRC he had 1 outing for the remains of Caterham in Abu Dhabi, I would say 2015 is his rookie season really)

 

In answer to your question - Lewis but also but Fernando and Kimi also had impressive debut seasons and Nico (Hulkenberg), Jenson and Sergio also had some stand out performances in their 1st season. I'm sure there are plenty more I have forgotten about though.

Edited by Exb, 14 August 2015 - 14:25.

[F1matt]

Lewis Hamilton, 2007. It's a no brainier. Simply because of the way he matched and beat the incumbent WDC. It was amazing to watch.

 

 

 

 

Sits back, tapping desk waiting for the Alonso brigade to take offence at the above post.

[Marklar]

Will Stevens - 2014 Marussia???

(IIRC he had 1 outing for the remains of Caterham in Abu Dhabi, I would say 2015 is his rookie season really)

 

In answer to your question - Lewis

Oops, you are right 

[Counterbalance]

Nah, we're talking about best rookies ever. I'm more worried about the fans of another driver who's had lots of girlfriends giving me grief.

Should be all good fun, though.

Edited by Counterbalance, 14 August 2015 - 14:26.

[rasul]

I don't think it's fair to compare rookies like Ricciardo and Vettel, who got dumped into a F1 seat midseason,  to drivers who had a full rookie season, with pre-season tests, acclimatization and everything. Even if you dump an experienced driver into a F1 car midseason, he would have trouble with acclimatization(we saw how much Fisichella struggled in 2009 when he got a Ferrari seat midseason), much less rookies. I suppose I can see why 2011 can be considered Ricciardo's rookie season--he participated in more than a half of the season--but that can't be said about Vettel. IMO, Vettel's first season should be considered 2008. 

Edited by rasul, 14 August 2015 - 14:33.

[Marklar]

I don't think it's fair to compare rookies like Ricciardo and Vettel, who got dumped into a F1 seat midseason,  to drivers who had a full rookie season, with pre-season tests, acclimatization and everything. Even if you dump an experienced driver into a F1 car midseason, he would have trouble with acclimatization(we saw how much Fisichella struggled in 2009 when he got a Ferrari seat midseason), much less rookies. I suppose I can see why 2011 can be considered Ricciardo's rookie season--he participated in more than a half of the season--but that can't be said about Vettel. IMO, Vettel's first season should be considered 2008. 

Thats indeed very difficult. But if you say that Vettels rookie season is 2008 than he had the advantage of having extra F1 experience. But on the other side you can also say that the guys who had their debut until 2009 had massive advantages anyway due to unlimited testing compare to everyone who had their debut from 2010 onwards. As I said in the OP: consider every circumstances and not just the pure result. And if you think that Vettels rookie season is 2008 than judge him on his 2008 season ;)

 

For me the best rookie seasons were by Kimi, Alonso and Hamilton btw.

Edited by Marklar, 14 August 2015 - 14:42.

[redraven9]

Alonso - often outqualified both teammates (Yoong and Tarso) by over a second
Hamilton - matched Alonso

These two for me. Verstappen is up there, though.

[V8 Fireworks]

Gee, couldn't be the chap who nearly won the WDC?

 

(some joker voted for Ericsson    )

[V8 Fireworks]

Although Alonso was good at Minardi and Vettel at STR, voting for them over somebody who nearly won the WDC on their first try is just unthinkable.

[redraven9]

^ I don't get this logic. Lewis was given the best car, so he is automatically the best? Should Vettel have challenged for the title in a lousy Toro Rosso?

[rasul]

Thats indeed very difficult. But if you say that Vettels rookie season is 2008 than he had the advantage of having extra F1 experience. But on the other side you can also say that the guys who had their debut until 2009 had massive advantages anyway due to unlimited testing compare to everyone who had their debut from 2010 onwards. As I said in the OP: consider every circumstances and not just the pure result...

Yeah, it would be more like 1.5 season, but it's more fair than judging rookies by their performance in a completely unfamiliar team and car midseason with no time to adapt while your teammate has a huge advantage of both experience and the knowledge of the car. I might be wrong, but I don't think Vettel even tested with STR prior to getting a seat (he was a BMW test driver, IIRC).

Edited by rasul, 14 August 2015 - 14:48.

[Marklar]

Although Alonso was good at Minardi and Vettel at STR, voting for them over somebody who nearly won the WDC on their first try is just unthinkable.

Disagree

 

See Alonso for example who had just two years single seater experience and was usually 1.5 seconds faster than his team mates at Minardi.

Or Kimi who had almost no experience and was from the first day on super fast.

Or Vettel who claimed in his 7th ever GP a 4th place in a Toro Rosso.

[Marklar]

Yeah, it would be more like 1.5 season, but it's more fair than judging rookies by their performance in a completely unfamiliar team and car midseason with no time to adapt while your teammate has a huge advantage of both experience and the knowledge of the car. I might be wrong, but I don't think Vettel even tested with STR prior to getting a seat (he was a BMW test driver, IIRC).

As I said you can judge him by 2008 (bad first season half, incredible second season half) if you like. But even 2007 would be possible. As I said take all the circumstances into account. And its not like Vettel was bad in 2007, the guy finished 4th in China...

[rasul]

As I said you can judge him by 2008 (bad first season half, incredible second season half) if you like. But even 2007 would be possible. As I said take all the circumstances into account. And its not like Vettel was bad in 2007, the guy finished 4th in China...

It's not a matter of him being bad or good in 2007 (he did have some great drives in rain). I just think it's not correct to judge rookies by their performance when they get a seat midseason. 

[Marklar]

It's not a matter of him being bad or good in 2007 (he did have some great drives in rain). I just think it's not correct to judge rookies by their performance when they get a seat midseason. 

For sure ;)

 

Its also not fair to judge them by different eras and different cars thought.

[Spillage]

Well, almost certainly Hamilton. Honourable mention to Vettel as well - as well as 2007, his first full season the following year was outstanding. But Hamilton's a bit of a no-brainer for me.

[sennafan24]

While Lewis got put into a position to shine, it still took supreme talent for him to do so. Right off the bat, he was put into what I considered to be the 2nd best car, and with a teammate who was the best on the grid. Not many drivers could have thrived in that environment. 

Edited by sennafan24, 14 August 2015 - 15:11.

[Jon83]

I voted for Kimi.

 

Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel and Rosberg were all very impressive too. None of which should be a surprise.

[noikeee]

Hamilton had probably the most impressive rookie season ever, let alone from the current grid. Even if you disregard the great car he had, he matched a reigning two-times champion under massive pressure.

 

... but I would've expected him to develop more afterwards. I know that sounds silly when he's on course for a 3rd title, and is still clearly one of the best drivers in the grid, but I reckoned after such an amazing debut season he'd go on to become like the second coming of Michael Schumacher only better - some kind of utterly dominant driver, a clear level ahead of all others of his generation. Instead I'm not sure he gained anything at all over the years on Alonso, or if he is any quicker than Vettel. He's a top driver, but only a "normal" top driver... just like he already was on his very first season. Almost all others take time to warm up and gain experience, he didn't.

Edited by noikeee, 14 August 2015 - 15:38.

[Jon83]

Might say more about the quality of driver he is up against than him?

[TheRacingElf]

Can someone please explain to me why Ericsson is on this list? Did I miss some of his impressive achievements or something, really confused now

[Nonesuch]

Hamilton was no doubt the most successful, but I think Räikkönen's first season was more impressive.

 

Räikkönen was so inexperienced that he only got a temporary license - and made such an impression that he was picked up by McLaren (2nd in the WCC that year) to replace a double world champion.

 

Alonso also had an inspiring début season, but it was harder to make headlines in a Minardi than it was in a Sauber - for obvious reasons.

[HeadFirst]

Where is Jacques Villeneuve on the list? Pushed his far more experienced (and favoured) team-mate throughout the season and finished second in the WDC, without the benefit of GP2 to learn the tracks.

[Nonesuch]

Villeneuve might be plotting a return to action in Formula E, but he's hardly a current driver in F1.

Edited by Nonesuch, 14 August 2015 - 16:18.

[MikeV1987]

Lewis obviously, but he also had many things in his favor; arguably the best car, tons of testing, etc. I would even say Alonso was not at his best in that season either. Rookies have it much tougher now a days.

Edited by MikeV1987, 14 August 2015 - 16:27.

[Spillage]

Hamilton was no doubt the most successful, but I think Räikkönen's first season was more impressive.

 

Räikkönen was so inexperienced that he only got a temporary license - and made such an impression that he was picked up by McLaren (2nd in the WCC that year) to replace a double world champion.

 

Alonso also had an inspiring début season, but it was harder to make headlines in a Minardi than it was in a Sauber - for obvious reasons.

I don't know about Raikkonen. There's no doubt he did an impressive job given his lack of racing experience, but he was beaten by Heidfeld consistently in the same car. Heidfeld was vastly more experienced but it isn't like Raikkonen was beating him by the end of 2001 - Heidfeld outqualified him in each of the final three races of the year. 

 

I have to say, I thought at the time Mclaren's decision to sign him rather than their erstwhile development driver Heidfeld was very a strange one. Looking at the 2001 season, I no more understand why they went for him now than I did at the time - certainly I'd have picked Heidfeld if it was up to me. No doubt, though, it was a stroke of genius and they ended up with one of the best racing drivers in the world. Suppose that's why they've won so many titles and I'm no more than an armchair fan 

[Dan333SP]

Hamilton was no doubt the most successful, but I think Räikkönen's first season was more impressive.

 

Räikkönen was so inexperienced that he only got a temporary license - and made such an impression that he was picked up by McLaren (2nd in the WCC that year) to replace a double world champion.

 

Alonso also had an inspiring début season, but it was harder to make headlines in a Minardi than it was in a Sauber - for obvious reasons.

 

 

That's true, I'd forgotten about the details of his rookie season but it was very impressive. I remember reading a column in (I think?) Motorsport magazine by Roebuck or someone talking about their experience standing on the inside of the first complex of corners at Magny Cours. He described the technique of each driver, and the one standout was Kimi, even in the mediocre Sauber. He was visibly quicker through the corner than just about everyone else and had a much smoother application of throttle on the exit, and he was consistent. Whoever wrote that article tapped him as a sure future champion, and obviously they were right. Too bad about his form these last couple seasons though

[anneomoly]

Can someone please explain to me why Ericsson is on this list? Did I miss some of his impressive achievements or something, really confused now

 

He's a current driver who had a rookie season? Every current driver who has completed a rookie season is there.

[HeadFirst]

Villeneuve might be plotting a return to action in Formula E, but he's hardly a current driver in F1.

 

True enough, but I had to toss his name into the ring .... I am a Canadian after all. Convenient that it has to be "current" drivers, so the Hamilton fanboys can have their day.

[P123]

I don't think it's a surprise that the top guys over the past decade have had the most impressive rookies seasons- Button, Alonso, Kimi, Hamilton, Vettel.

[P123]

Hamilton had probably the most impressive rookie season ever, let alone from the current grid. Even if you disregard the great car he had, he matched a reigning two-times champion under massive pressure.
 
... but I would've expected him to develop more afterwards. I know that sounds silly when he's on course for a 3rd title, and is still clearly one of the best drivers in the grid, but I reckoned after such an amazing debut season he'd go on to become like the second coming of Michael Schumacher only better - some kind of utterly dominant driver, a clear level ahead of all others of his generation. Instead I'm not sure he gained anything at all over the years on Alonso, or if he is any quicker than Vettel. He's a top driver, but only a "normal" top driver... just like he already was on his very first season. Almost all others take time to warm up and gain experience, he didn't.

If you consider '07 it was mainly a 4 way fight up front, with BMW occasionally getting in on the act too. The rest were quite far behind. Hamilton had some off races where he was well outpaced by Alonso, but still sat on the podium. I don't think he would outpaced to the same degree these days, and of course Alonso himself has developed too.

Edited by P123, 14 August 2015 - 16:56.

[noikeee]

If you consider '07 it was mainly a 4 way fight up front, with BMW occasionally getting in on the act too. The rest were quite far behind. Hamilton had some off races where he was well outpaced by Alonso, but still sat on the podium. I don't think he would outpaced to the same degree these days, and of course Alonso himself has developed too.

 

He's still occasionally outpaced by Rosberg. And had a pretty bad year (was it 2011?) when Button outscored him. Point is, I thought he'd go on to become virtually untouchable by anyone else and he didn't, just became very good.

 

I can concede there's an argument he improved a bit, he did seem to have upped his performance in around 2008/2009 when he ran circles around Kovalainen; and is probably a little more consistent these days than in his debut season. But like you say, so did Alonso, who looked even more outstanding in all of his Ferrari years than in any before. That really shouldn't have happened if you consider the starting point of 2007 - Hamilton was the rookie, Alonso had many years of F1 by then, you'd have expected Hamilton to improve more than Alonso since. But if there was to be a rematch now I'd expect the same outcome as then - about a draw.

 

Of course nobody really knows and performance is all subjective anyway as it depends on circumstances, car characteristics etc.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Surely Hamilton in 2007, no other driver in the poll comes even close.

[P123]

He's still occasionally outpaced by Rosberg. And had a pretty bad year (was it 2011?) when Button outscored him. Point is, I thought he'd go on to become virtually untouchable by anyone else and he didn't, just became very good.
 
I can concede there's an argument he improved a bit, he did seem to have upped his performance in around 2008/2009 when he ran circles around Kovalainen; and is probably a little more consistent these days than in his debut season. But like you say, so did Alonso, who looked even more outstanding in all of his Ferrari years than in any before. That really shouldn't have happened if you consider the starting point of 2007 - Hamilton was the rookie, Alonso had many years of F1 by then, you'd have expected Hamilton to improve more than Alonso since. But if there was to be a rematch now I'd expect the same outcome as then - about a draw.
 
Of course nobody really knows and performance is all subjective anyway as it depends on circumstances, car characteristics etc.

Had he been up against the likes of Coulthard, Irvine, Frentzen... I'd say domination would be there. But we know Alonso is near or pretty much on Schumacher's level, and if you think Vettel to be quicker than Hamilton then it get's fairly crowded at the top. You could also say Alonso's 2007 really shouldn't have happened either, as it was a dip in form compared to '05 and '06.

Sure, Rosberg can occasionally outpace him. Is that a bad thing? Barichello could occasionally outpace Schumacher, as could Irvine, as could Massa.

[extremeday]

Lewis Hamilton.

 

Not only he matched the reigning 2xWDC but he matched Fernando Alonso. I cannot say Hamilton is better than Alonso because I´ve seen no evidence about it during these years, but the point here is that Hamilton and Alonso are stunning drivers, quite probably among the best drivers in history.

 

One of the reasons why I complain about how boring current F1 can be is that I can see that current grid of drivers is full of talent. Even Maldonado has had his good days. It would be amazing to see them battling under similar conditions.

 

At this point in my life I don´t care about fanatic point of view, nationalities or personal preferences. I care about excitement, skills, hard work, improvement, teams working like Swiss clocks, etc. Obviously I want to see my favorite team and/or driver to win but I can see who the best ones are and why. I am happy if my team improves and my boy is close to those great drivers, I am delighted if the boy matches them and if he manages to beat them under equal conditions I know that he is really good.

 

Hamilton matched Alonso and this tells volumes about how good he is. Let´s be honest, regarding teammate battles, it is usually Hamilton vs Hamilton and Alonso vs Alonso, we can see how difficult it is to beat them, it is almost impossible if they are focused and in relentless mode. I don´t put Vettel on their level but he is a great driver and he will surely be among the best ones too, if I talk about Ricciardo I could be praising him for a long time, maybe Bottas is not on Hamilton/Alonso level but he is good, Hulkenberg, Kyvyat and the rookies have been doing a really good job, Perez has his moments, Grosjean can be on the podium, Rosberg is really fast, we have Button, the eternal underrated driver, consistent and fast, current Raikkonen situation doesn´t make me forget his past success and his recent teammates have not been easy to beat, Massa is still fast and can win races with a competitive car…There is talent in the current grid of drivers, so Hamilton can be beaten from time to time and can be beaten at the end if he is not focused, but it doesn´t mean that he isn´t a stunning driver. I don´t think that all the past was better, although there were great drivers and really exciting battles in the past, but if I am focused on the past and how good it was, I could miss the present and how good it is.

 

Sometimes I feel the need to defend Hamilton/Alonso because besides hard work, skills are strong there, it is so obvious. In this particular forum there are many Hamilton fans and he doesn´t need much defence here, but even so I want to praise him from time to time. I have to admire this kind of drivers if I like F1. I hope Hamilton stays focused, in recent races I´ve seen the Hamilton vs Hamilton battle again.

[Dan333SP]

Had he been up against the likes of Coulthard, Irvine, Frentzen... I'd say domination would be there. But we know Alonso is near or pretty much on Schumacher's level, and if you think Vettel to be quicker than Hamilton then it get's fairly crowded at the top. You could also say Alonso's 2007 really shouldn't have happened either, as it was a dip in form compared to '05 and '06.

Sure, Rosberg can occasionally outpace him. Is that a bad thing? Barichello could occasionally outpace Schumacher, as could Irvine, as could Massa.

 

I'm not trying to downplay Hamilton at all, I think he's an all time great, but Barichello/Irvine/Massa never took MSC down to the last race battling for the title like Rosberg did last year.

 

I think all this really tells us is that Rosberg is a much better competitor than those guys, rather than Hamilton being weaker than MSC. Hell, Rosberg beat MSC fairly convincingly himself, although there's a huge asterisk because it was MSC 2.0.

[Wally123]

I'm not trying to downplay Hamilton at all, I think he's an all time great, but Barichello/Irvine/Massa never took MSC down to the last race battling for the title like Rosberg did last year.

I think all this really tells us is that Rosberg is a much better competitor than those guys, rather than Hamilton being weaker than MSC. Hell, Rosberg beat MSC fairly convincingly himself, although there's a huge asterisk because it was MSC 2.0.

You're forgetting one thing, Schumacher had the team built around him. No way in gods earth was there equal status at Ferrari.

[Dan333SP]

You're forgetting one thing, Schumacher had the team built around him. No way in gods earth was there equal status at Ferrari.

 

Doesn't matter. Put MSC in his '97-'04 form at Williams with RB, Eddie, or Felipe and he'd wipe the floor with them at a team with notoriously equal treatment. Yes, wins were given to him, but if you believe he only smashed his teammates because the cards were stacked against them by Ferrari, then I don't know what to tell you.

[Disgrace]

So, the topic...

[Wally123]

Doesn't matter. Put MSC in his '97-'04 form at Williams with RB, Eddie, or Felipe and he'd wipe the floor with them at a team with notoriously equal treatment. Yes, wins were given to him, but if you believe he only smashed his teammates because the cards were stacked against them by Ferrari, then I don't know what to tell you.

You're forgetting the Merc last year was head and shoulders above anything else, the max Lewis could usually gain on Nico was 7 points. So the likes of Barrichello, Irvine and Massa beat Scumacher in a team built around him with clear number 1 status. I think more than likely they would have beat him more on occasions given equal treatment?

[RekF1]

I started waking up at stupid times to watch practice sessions, and joined 606 because of Lewis. Before that I'd usually only watch the race and qualifying. 

 

PS

 

I'm predicting a "worst Rookie season of the current grid" thread tomorrow from you. Answer: RoGro.

I'm starting to suspect you're a bot. A German bot (which is the worst type of bot).  

 

Jokes

Edited by RekF1, 14 August 2015 - 20:00.

[PayasYouRace]

Disagree

 

See Alonso for example who had just two years single seater experience and was usually 1.5 seconds faster than his team mates at Minardi.

 

 

But his team mates were Tarso Marques and Alex Yoong.

[Tsarwash]

That's true, I'd forgotten about the details of his rookie season but it was very impressive. I remember reading a column in (I think?) Motorsport magazine by Roebuck or someone talking about their experience standing on the inside of the first complex of corners at Magny Cours. He described the technique of each driver, and the one standout was Kimi, even in the mediocre Sauber. He was visibly quicker through the corner than just about everyone else and had a much smoother application of throttle on the exit, and he was consistent. Whoever wrote that article tapped him as a sure future champion, and obviously they were right. Too bad about his form these last couple seasons though

It wasn't mediocre. It was fourth in the WDC. 

[Tsarwash]

True enough, but I had to toss his name into the ring .... I am a Canadian after all. Convenient that it has to be "current" drivers, so the Hamilton fanboys can have their day.

At the same time, he wasn't really a rookie anyway. He was the Champcar champion and had had two full seasons at top level open wheel, racing, mostly on non ovals. 

[warp]

But his team mates were Tarso Marques and Alex Yoong.

 

That's very true. But that was Minardi Team.

Should he have landed at McLaren he would have faced MIkka Hakkinen. Just like 7 years later, Hamilton faced Alonso. Would Hamilton have started his career in a Super Aguri, he would have faced Takuma Sato or Davidson.

 

Would Alonso had beat or match Hakkinen? We will never know. I think Hamilton's rookie season is one if not the best ever, though.

[swintex]

Jacky Ickx in 1968 for Ferrari?

 

If you disregard a couple of starts towards the end of '67 in a Cooper, and F2 starts in the Nurburgring GPs in '66 and '67.

[Zava]

Jacky Ickx in 1968 for Ferrari?

 

If you disregard a couple of starts towards the end of '67 in a Cooper, and F2 starts in the Nurburgring GPs in '66 and '67.

is he a current driver?

 

OP: you could've just started a poll about which current driver is named Lewis Hamilton the most, and would've get similar results. 

[Marklar]

is he a current driver?

OP: you could've just started a poll about which current driver is named Lewis Hamilton the most, and would've get similar results.

Probably
Didnt expected this result tbh. For me Alonsos, Kimis and perhaps Vettels debut were equal impressive to Hamiltons - in a different way.

Edited by Marklar, 15 August 2015 - 07:49.